What to do

pilly

4ensic15 wrote: »

How is it known that the notice is proper until it has been determined to be so by the RTB? LLs are allowed take back the property after they serve a valid notice and after all disputes and appeals and court processes are finished.

Or as you previously put it "playing the game". This is why LL's are getting out of the business. Too much of this crap going on.

Whilst I have sympathy for the OP, I'm also a tenant, I just think it's very unfair to be planning and plotting appeals and disputes basically just to stay longer.

When the OP finds alternative accommodation will they continue to overstay then? Don't think so.

Specialun

I dont know that there is a brother in law. The estate is one of the sought after estates in cork surburbs. He could well be looking to re-lease the house to force a bidding war. Previously he did ring me to say that the property company had advised him to re lease as they needed property and that they could get more money..back then i just said how much do you want

pilly

Specialun wrote: »

I dont know that there is a brother in law. The estate is one of the sought after estates in cork surburbs. He could well be looking to re-lease the house to force a bidding war. Previously he did ring me to say that the property company had advised him to re lease as they needed property and that they could get more money..back then i just said how much do you want

Well that's a totally different story if he is using the brother in law as an excuse. But if you've already offered to pay more then I don't see what he'd have to gain? Besides, how do you find that out until you actually move out?

4ensic15

pilly wrote: »

Or as you previously put it "playing the game". This is why LL's are getting out of the business. Too much of this crap going on.

Whilst I have sympathy for the OP, I'm also a tenant, I just think it's very unfair to be planning and plotting appeals and disputes basically just to stay longer.

When the OP finds alternative accommodation will they continue to overstay then? Don't think so.

The landlord is lying to get the o/p out. Why shouldn't the o/p use they system against the liar? Morality is for a different forum anyway. If there is something wrong with the law, complaint should be made to the politicians, not to victims.

pilly

4ensic15 wrote: »

The landlord is lying to get the o/p out. Why shouldn't the o/p use they system against the liar? Morality is for a different forum anyway. If there is something wrong with the law, complaint should be made to the politicians, not to victims.

And you know the LL is lying? How is that? If you have proof sure then the OP is grand.

sullivk

Perhaps the LLs call was just a forewarning and the valid written notice is on the way... if so, what would be your grounds for appeal then?

jsd1004

sullivk wrote: »

Perhaps the LLs call was just a forewarning and the valid written notice is on the way... if so, what would be your grounds for appeal then?

As a professional landlord the first thing I ask prospective tenants is who was their last landlord and how long were they there and why are they moving. Any hint of PRTB/possibility of overholding/no reference or lived at parents rules them out. Be careful or your next accomodation choice could be seriously restricted when your references get checked.

formernyer

OP, you're getting some mixed up advice here.

Firstly, you're entitled to written notice in the correct format. You're then entitled to 20 weeks before you leave (based on the length of your tenancy) from the date of that notice. That alone might make it impractical for the LL's brother-in-law to move in?

Secondly, if you believe there is a problem with what the landlord has done, you can start a procedure with the RTB and you may be able to stay on while that procedure runs its course (you'd still need to pay rent, etc.).

If it were me, I'd make sure the first step happens before considering the second item mentioned...

newacc2015

Specialun wrote: »

I dont know that there is a brother in law. The estate is one of the sought after estates in cork surburbs. He could well be looking to re-lease the house to force a bidding war. Previously he did ring me to say that the property company had advised him to re lease as they needed property and that they could get more money..back then i just said how much do you want

Well if he does move his brother in law in, then you can file a complaint to the RTB about that. Until then there is little logic in refusing to move out as you think he might move someone else in, but you arent really sure. If does move someone else in, you are entitled to comp from him.

You basically implied he has been a reasonable landlord for the last 6 years. So IMO there is little reason to doubt him. But I guess you see the opposite for some reason...

sullivk

jsd1004 wrote:

As a professional landlord the first thing I ask prospective tenants is who was their last landlord and how long were they there and why are they moving. Any hint of PRTB/possibility of overholding/no reference or lived at parents rules them out. Be careful or your next accomodation choice could be seriously restricted when your references get checked.

Totally agree! Not all landlords are playing underhand games when they need tenants out, some genuinely are selling/moving in/renovating etc. Most of the responses on this thread so far have been encouraging the OP to take RTB appeals/ignore the LL etc.

Why not just speak to the LL like a grown-up adult? If he has declined your offer of a rent increase then likelihood is that he actually does need the property for family. Obviously he needs to give you the correct, appropriate notice to allow you time to find somewhere else to live. I think by being difficult with this you could ruin your chances of getting a great reference for a 6 year tenancy which will greatly impact you finding a new home. Good luck with it!

dudara

formernyer wrote: »

OP, you're getting some mixed up advice here.

Firstly, you're entitled to written notice in the correct format. You're then entitled to 20 weeks before you leave (based on the length of your tenancy) from the date of that notice. That alone might make it impractical for the LL's brother-in-law to move in?

There's a lot of jumping ahead going on here. The first thing to do is to make the landlord aware that valid written notice is required, and that it's 20 weeks in your case. That is 5 months, which would probably deter the landlord as it will be ages before they can move the brother in law in (assuming the BIL angle is real).

If the landlord does give valid written notice, then there's not much to do. I would fire a warning shot when responding to the termination notice by quoting the rules that allow you first opportunity at the property should the reason for the termination notice fall through. That should make the landlord aware that you know your rights.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

How is it known that the notice is proper until it has been determined to be so by the RTB? LLs are allowed take back the property after they serve a valid notice and after all disputes and appeals and court processes are finished.

Every single notice does not need to be scrutinised by the RTB. If the notice is received then all that has to be done is check that it meets the guidelines. If it does its valid if not it can be disputed.

Its no wonder RTB cases take so long if people are using a dispute to check if a notice is valid which can be done in a few mins using a check list. You are essentially encouraging the op to take the p*ss and become a bad tenant.

dudara wrote: »

There's a lot of jumping ahead going on here. The first thing to do is to make the landlord aware that valid written notice is required, and that it's 20 weeks in your case. That is 5 months, which would probably deter the landlord as it will be ages before they can move the brother in law in (assuming the BIL angle is real).

If the landlord does give valid written notice, then there's not much to do. I would fire a warning shot when responding to the termination notice by quoting the rules that allow you first opportunity at the property should the reason for the termination notice fall through. That should make the landlord aware that you know your rights.

There is a lot of assumption being made that the LL doesn't know how to proceed. 5 months time may be when the BIL needs the house and the call is probably just giving the op a heads up that notice is on the way.

listermint

jsd1004 wrote: »

As a professional landlord the first thing I ask prospective tenants is who was their last landlord and how long were they there and why are they moving. Any hint of PRTB/possibility of overholding/no reference or lived at parents rules them out. Be careful or your next accomodation choice could be seriously restricted when your references get checked.

As a professional landlord then id imagine you would be advocating for longer leases and protections on both sides. Because this sort of thing 'my brother needs your home' doesnt occur on the continent.

Whilst its an asset for you its a home for the tenant.

Landlords seem to want it both ways, i.e. its an asset that gives me a return via rental but i can take that house off you whenever i want to give to family....

We need protections both ways either via longer leases better contracts and deposit escrow, time to start getting professional in this country.

Graham

listermint wrote: »

As a professional landlord then id imagine you would be advocating for longer leases and protections on both sides.

Would be a bit pointless advocating for longer leases when a tenant can effectively opt-out at any time by nominating a replacement.

Not at all relevant to the OP though so I'll leave it there.

Ms Doubtfire1

listermint wrote: »

jsd1004 wrote: »

As a professional landlord the first thing I ask prospective tenants is who was their last landlord and how long were they there and why are they moving. Any hint of PRTB/possibility of overholding/no reference or lived at parents rules them out. Be careful or your next accomodation choice could be seriously restricted when your references get checked.

As a professional landlord then id imagine you would be advocating for longer leases and protections on both sides. Because this sort of thing 'my brother needs your home' doesnt occur on the continent.

Whilst its an asset for you its a home for the tenant.

Landlords seem to want it both ways, i.e. its an asset that gives me a return via rental but i can take that house off you whenever i want to give to family....

We need protections both ways either via longer leases better contracts and deposit escrow, time to start getting professional in this country.

I completely agree with that. Mind you though, the private LL on the continent which rent furnitured are not regulated either- no where near to the degree that they are here.the reaosn for that is that there are plenty of properties available - but you're on a waiting list.Depending where you want to go it can go quick or slow. Than you can rent through a real estate agent, in which case you are also protected.If you rent form a private person you don't have that protection at all.The so called rental agencies work with time bound agreements inside the law but there's no overholding.If you don't pay your rent you'll be evicted within 3 month. They can't move you out in between.But the time of the contract is set and can't be terminated other than by mutual agreement.
Thats the problem here I think.Ireland is trying to regulate a private market without having the necessary properties available to fill the gap. Thats very typical as far as can see with every risicolous law the irish government is bringing in.it's shortsighted and a kneejerk response.I am a tenant myself and have plenty of fights with my LL - but usually becaue he wants me to pay things which by law are his obligation - maintenance of the heating system, watercharges because the house is registered as a working farm whilst I have a residential tenancy agreement etc - and I'll always fight him on that.But, at the end of the day, I always pay my rent on time and I stick to the letter of the contract.
In regards to the case on here - Op's main problem is finding a new property with his pet. That i can fully understand. 
Therefore, and based on that reason, I would see if a correct notice comes within say 3 weeks.if not, i would dispute the notice thorugh the tenancyboard - it is invalid as 
a) The person replacing is not direct family
b) The notice period is too short

And than take it from there.I would meanwhile look for another place and screw the references. I never had any references when I rented.never bothered asking for any.never been a problem.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

As a professional landlord then id imagine you would be advocating for longer leases and protections on both sides. Because this sort of thing 'my brother needs your home' doesnt occur on the continent.

Whilst its an asset for you its a home for the tenant.

Landlords seem to want it both ways, i.e. its an asset that gives me a return via rental but i can take that house off you whenever i want to give to family....

We need protections both ways either via longer leases better contracts and deposit escrow, time to start getting professional in this country.

Wanting to take a property for his own or a family members use does not mean a person isn't a perfessional LL. In fact I'd argue it's more likely that a professional LL would have multiple properties and therefore more likely to have one that might suit a family member.

I also don't think any LL want longer leases, look at the uproar about the extension of part 4 to 6 years. A tenant should not have total power to stay in a property, it might be their temporary home but they don't own it.

Graces7

sullivk wrote: »

Totally agree! Not all landlords are playing underhand games when they need tenants out, some genuinely are selling/moving in/renovating etc. Most of the responses on this thread so far have been encouraging the OP to take RTB appeals/ignore the LL etc.

Why not just speak to the LL like a grown-up adult? If he has declined your offer of a rent increase then likelihood is that he actually does need the property for family. Obviously he needs to give you the correct, appropriate notice to allow you time to find somewhere else to live. I think by being difficult with this you could ruin your chances of getting a great reference for a 6 year tenancy which will greatly impact you finding a new home. Good luck with it!

Amen to this.I am in a roughly similar situation as my landlord told me a while ago he needs to sell this house. I know him and his family well and what his situation is. He has problems with reading etc and I have done all the paperwork for him all along,I did call threshold and they gave me the same advice as you have here; with me over 4 years it was 112 days. And needed properly worded notice etc etc etc.

But unless cornered i was not going to face him with that so just said I would move as soon as I found somewhere, and I am moving this weekend.

And yes he gave me an excellent reference.

It has been very very hard to find anywhere and a huge upheaval and a long way from anyone I know but a roof is a roof.

It is hard to lose your home OP. I know that. Hoping it goes well for you.

MrDerp

Why is everyone so quick to call shenanigans?

1. By the OP's admission it's extremely difficult to source good property in Cork.
2. The OP states that this is in a highly desirable estate in a good suburb

Why is it so far fetched to believe that the landlord's brother-in-law, facing that same market, would not try alternative means to secure somewhere to live other than the open market?

When I moved back to Cork just over 3 years ago, I couldn't get a call back. In the end I built up a rapport with an independent agent and jumped in my car to secure a property on 20 minutes noticed before it even hit the market.

I have no problem believing that a landlord wants to look after a family member with a house in this market.

OP, if I were you, I'd concentrate on getting a gentleman's agreement with the landlord that you can leave within the 20 weeks on 2-4 weeks notice should you secure a property. As you know, you have to be ready to start paying rent within 2 weeks of securing a place at this point, and you don't want some long drawn out property search where everyone tells you it'll take too long for you to move in. Property is being shown vacant in a lot of cases, and your dogs are a complication (we had one too).

pilly

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I completely agree with that. Mind you though, the private LL on the continent which rent furnitured are not regulated either- no where near to the degree that they are here.the reaosn for that is that there are plenty of properties available - but you're on a waiting list.Depending where you want to go it can go quick or slow. Than you can rent through a real estate agent, in which case you are also protected.If you rent form a private person you don't have that protection at all.The so called rental agencies work with time bound agreements inside the law but there's no overholding.If you don't pay your rent you'll be evicted within 3 month. They can't move you out in between.But the time of the contract is set and can't be terminated other than by mutual agreement.
Thats the problem here I think.Ireland is trying to regulate a private market without having the necessary properties available to fill the gap. Thats very typical as far as can see with every risicolous law the irish government is bringing in.it's shortsighted and a kneejerk response.I am a tenant myself and have plenty of fights with my LL - but usually becaue he wants me to pay things which by law are his obligation - maintenance of the heating system, watercharges because the house is registered as a working farm whilst I have a residential tenancy agreement etc - and I'll always fight him on that.But, at the end of the day, I always pay my rent on time and I stick to the letter of the contract.
In regards to the case on here - Op's main problem is finding a new property with his pet. That i can fully understand.
Therefore, and based on that reason, I would see if a correct notice comes within say 3 weeks.if not, i would dispute the notice thorugh the tenancyboard - it is invalid as
a) The person replacing is not direct family
b) The notice period is too short

And than take it from there.I would meanwhile look for another place and screw the references. I never had any references when I rented.never bothered asking for any.never been a problem.

The 1st thing any good LL is going to look for is references. Don't know when the last time you rented was or what kind of place you rented but this is absolutely essential nowadays. Some places ask for references before they'll even allow you to view the property.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

The 1st thing any good LL is going to look for is references. Don't know when the last time you rented was or what kind of place you rented but this is absolutely essential nowadays. Some places ask for references before they'll even allow you to view the property.

The poster is renting is rural areas afaik where there isn't near the same demand so they probably got away with not having any references

You are wasting your time even ringing up about an ad unless you have reference the way things are now especially in any sort of urban area where demand is massive and a LL will pick and choose who he wants. Someone without references wont even be at the bottom of the list they will be in the bin.

Ms Doubtfire1

I'm here 3 years now. But I've moved around quite a lot.Never an issue with references.I should add the I have quite a high income.And I'm only rural in the last 3 years.

Ms Doubtfire1

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I'm here 3 years now. But I've moved around quite a lot.Never an issue with references.I should add the I have quite a high income.And I'm only rural in the last 3 years.

I've seen a lot of people move house over the last few years and anyone renting a full apartment or house was asked for multiple reference (both previous LL and employer references). It was basically the first thing they were asked for.

Renting in house shares varies alright, I've never been asked for a reference in any house share I've moved into but I know others have.

Graces7

Dayana Sticky Eyeglass wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people move house over the last few years and anyone renting a full apartment or house was asked for multiple reference (both previous LL and employer references). I was basically the first thing they were asked for.

Renting in house shares varies alright, I've never been asked for a reference in any house share I've moved into but I know others have.

The house I am moving to is via an agent and this is the first time I have ever been asked for a reference in 15 years; always rural but so much red tape this time.

Maybe things are changing ...

pilly

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I'm here 3 years now. But I've moved around quite a lot.Never an issue with references.I should add the I have quite a high income.And I'm only rural in the last 3 years.

Times have changed Ms Doubtfire

listermint

MrDerp wrote: »

.

I have no problem believing that a landlord wants to look after a family member with a house in this market.

There in lies the problem, In being professional then the landlord should realise they have contact commitments therefore chucking tenants out for family doesnt really appear like they are qualified to be in the business does it.

Also the family member should be savvy enough to understand its a business and has contractual obligations.

Basically youve said the opposite to being a professional landlord.

pilly

listermint wrote: »

There in lies the problem, In being professional then the landlord should realise they have contact commitments therefore chucking tenants out for family doesnt really appear like they are qualified to be in the business does it.

Also the family member should be savvy enough to understand its a business and has contractual obligations.

Basically youve said the opposite to being a professional landlord.

So a LL has a commitment to rent a property forever more unless a tenant decides they want to move?

If that was the case why would anyone bother buying a home and putting in the hard work and maintenance involved. Just rent your dream home for life, never move out!

Graces7

pilly wrote: »

So a LL has a commitment to rent a property forever more unless a tenant decides they want to move?

If that was the case why would anyone bother buying a home and putting in the hard work and maintenance involved. Just rent your dream home for life, never move out!

Not forever but certainly more security than we have now. This is our home. And we are paying for it.

And so far no rental has ever been my "dream home" ... The next one has promise but I have a lease for a year only.

overshoot

In the end you just need to chat to the landord. Family is a valid reason so in the long run your going to lose. Has the brother in laws planning been rejected/further information (6month delay max) /gone to an bord planala (year +).
You could be getting ample notice here, as in much more than 20 weeks. If he was granted planning tomorrow he would still need a year for tender/construction for a standard enough project. Surely his own lease agreement caters for this. If hes genuine these should be easily answered questions

Graham

listermint wrote: »

In being professional then the landlord should realise they have contact commitments therefore chucking tenants out for family doesnt really appear like they are qualified to be in the business does it.

It sounds like you are confusing the landlords legal and professional commitments with your own very emotional interpretation as to what constitutes a professional landlord.

Graces7

Graham wrote: »

It sounds like you are confusing the landlords legal and professional commitments with your own very emotional interpretation as to what constitutes a professional landlord.

That sums the whole situation here up very nearly indeed!

I honestly think that very few landlords think in those terms though. Well in rural areas...