Connemarathon 2017

TFBubendorfer

A 3:45 marathon leading to a 6 hour 39 miler would be 1:52 for the first 2 halfs dropping down to 2:15 for the last one.

That's not a particularly excessive slowdown, and there will be plenty of runners with worse looking splits, but it's certainly not great either.

When I ran my personal worst in Connemara, a long time ago in 2008, I went through the marathon in 3:43 and finished in 5:50, at that was with a few nightmarish miles in the last third.

If your plan is to run under 6 hours then you're better off running the first 26 a bit slower. In a marathon every minute too fast in the first half costs you 2 in the second half. In an ultra it gets a lot worse!

acurno

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

A 3:45 marathon leading to a 6 hour 39 miler would be 1:52 for the first 2 halfs dropping down to 2:15 for the last one.

That's not a particularly excessive slowdown, and there will be plenty of runners with worse looking splits, but it's certainly not great either.

When I ran my personal worst in Connemara, a long time ago in 2008, I went through the marathon in 3:43 and finished in 5:50, at that was with a few nightmarish miles in the last third.

If your plan is to run under 6 hours then you're better off running the first 26 a bit slower. In a marathon every minute too fast in the first half costs you 2 in the second half. In an ultra it gets a lot worse!

Would still find it difficult to slow down any further as I find it uncomfortably slow but I take your point. 6hrs is just an arbitrary number really to me but it has a nice ring to it. I don't know however if this is too ambitious a target or whether it's not ambitious enough.
I suppose this is like anything else just a learning experience and I'll take the lessons learned to help me focus for future ultras.
Did you do the ultra the following year? What were the significant points you changed to improve your time?

TFBubendorfer

acurno wrote: »

Did you do the ultra the following year? What were the significant points you changed to improve your time?

I did the ultra in Connemara 5 times:

2007 5:40
2008 5:50
2010 5:15
2012 4:53
2014 4:49

No magic to it, just years of consistent training. Until 2012 I saw myself first and foremost as a marathon runner and ultra training was basically marathon training with extended long runs

Ferris B

acurno wrote: »

Hi folks just wondering what your strategy is for pace during the ultra?


Cheers

Also be prepared for the possibility of 4 seasons in one race.

I still vividly recall the gales and hailstones in 2014 which made the final climb at mile 36/37 a bit of an extra challenge. Never before had I the experience of being brought to a standstill by the force of the gusts. It was comical in a sadistic kind of way.

All part of the fun though.

bleedinlegit

acurno wrote: »

Hi folks just wondering what your strategy is for pace during the ultra?
1st ultra so my primary goal is to finish it without resorting to crawling any section.
But I'd like to do a sub 6 which would be a realistic time for me.
Have done plenty of marathons and I know the key for a good time is consistent pace, but running a 4hr marathon pace at approx 5.40km is uncomfortably slow for me. I was planning on running around a comfortable 3.45 marathon, and basically, well, hanging on as best I could for the sub 6. The last 3rd is an absolute unknown for me so I'm looking for advice on how to approach it.

Cheers

Don't be to keen to get to the start line. Take the last bus from Peacocks otherwise you could be freezing and wet before you even begin.
Even pace for the race. What feels "uncomfortably slow" at the beginning is likely to fee just uncomfortable at the end and if it doesn't you could push on and finish with a negative split.

HurlyBurly

Unfortunately can't make the Ultra now due to injury . So have an entry available if anyone wants one. The ultra is sold out. I think Thursday this week is the deadline for any transfers.

(Potentially also a 2 night (sat/sun) hotel booking in Galway if needed)

ToriV

nhunter100 wrote: »

Conn was my first in 2014. A beautiful run. You need to get in some hill running but not a crazy amount. This year I will be a Pacer. Really only two hills in Conn Lenane and the long drag which is known as the 'Hell of the West '. I've also ran the Ultra in Conn great event.

Is there 3.45 pacers this year? That would be great if there was, but only see 3.30, 4.00 and 4.30 on the website.

Getting close now - hope all is going well for you.

nhunter100

ToriV wrote:

Is there 3.45 pacers this year? That would be great if there was, but only see 3.30, 4.00 and 4.30 on the website.

I honestly don't know the answer to that, I was asked to Pace 4.30. You might want to drop the organisers a message on FB. The first half is relatively easy, so control your pace. The climb out of Leenane is the start of the tough part. There are a few hills. The hell of the West is a very long drag. However when you get to the top it's a steady downhill flattening out to the finish. Best of luck.
Have a pacing gig in Manchester first.

event

Hey guys. So is the bag drop covered or anything? I'm gonna hopefully put some spare clothes in it for after, but also gonna wear a cheap hoody & bottoms at start to just throw away. Have done this in Dublin, is it OK to do it here too?

Hills30

Hey guys. Does anyone know the setup for drinks stations, are they regular? Does anyone know if they supply gels at the stations?

Neady83

Hills30 wrote: »

Hey guys. Does anyone know the setup for drinks stations, are they regular? Does anyone know if they supply gels at the stations?

From the website here

Water (250ml bottles) and aid stations will be located at the following miles:

Half Marathon: 3, 6, 9, 11 (+Lucozade Sport).
Full Marathon: 3, 6, 9, 13 (+Lucozade Sport), 16, 19, 22, 24 (+Lucozade Sport).
Ultra Marathon: 5, 10, 13 (+Lucozade Sport), 16, 19, 22, 26 (+Lucozade Sport), 29, 32, 35, 37 (+Lucozade Sport).

There is no water available at the start.
Water will be provided in 500ml bottles at the finish area.

I don't think that there are gels at the aid stations.

Neady83

event wrote: »

Hey guys. So is the bag drop covered or anything? I'm gonna hopefully put some spare clothes in it for after, but also gonna wear a cheap hoody & bottoms at start to just throw away. Have done this in Dublin, is it OK to do it here too?

The bag drop isn't usually covered but the bag for the bag drop is usually waterproof so once it's sealed correctly, you're cloths will stay dry.

You will be able to put whatever warm cloths you're wearing into the bag for the bag drop 20 minutes before the race starts so maybe a bin bag to keep you warm for the 20 minutes?

ToriV

nhunter100 wrote: »

I honestly don't know the answer to that, I was asked to Pace 4.30. You might want to drop the organisers a message on FB. The first half is relatively easy, so control your pace. The climb out of Leenane is the start of the tough part. There are a few hills. The hell of the West is a very long drag. However when you get to the top it's a steady downhill flattening out to the finish. Best of luck.
Have a pacing gig in Manchester first.

Thanks will do! Best of luck in Manchester - have a few friends going over for it. Hear it is a flat, fast one, enjoy:D

Down South

Everyone enjoying their taper?

Race number arrived yesterday. Starting to feel very real!

Hills30

Down South wrote: »

Everyone enjoying their taper?

Race number arrived yesterday. Starting to feel very real!

One final long run, 32km to do tomorrow. But then I will very much enjoy tapering and having a Sunday morning over Easter!!

Race number arrived. It's happening!

Day like today would be great. Sun, but a nice breeze.

ToriV

Down South wrote: »

Everyone enjoying their taper?

Race number arrived yesterday. Starting to feel very real!

It snuck up fast didnt it! Looking forward to it, but hope to avoid that paranoia i got last time ..... about stairs and germs and the like! Feeling restless though. How about you?

ToriV

Starting to think about my pacing strategy. This is a hard one to call, as it would on paper seems that you should run the first half faster. But im leaning towards neg split, first half steady with a slight surge before halfway. Add extra time for the hill and then up the pace slightly afterwards. Allowing 2 mins for the hill that shall not be named, then boot down and hell for leather home.

Found reading old ultra posts great in getting my head around this. What way are ye thinking about approaching this

TFBubendorfer

ToriV wrote: »

Allowing 2 mins for the hill that shall not be named, then boot down and hell for leather home.

2 minutes for that hill is a bit optimistic. And the downhill on the other side is only half as long as the climb had been.

And don't forget the hill right after Leenaune. That will take a bit extra time as well.

I wouldn't worry too much about time in Connemara. It's not a PB course.

opus

ToriV wrote: »

Starting to think about my pacing strategy. This is a hard one to call, as it would on paper seems that you should run the first half faster. But im leaning towards neg split, first half steady with a slight surge before halfway. Add extra time for the hill and then up the pace slightly afterwards. Allowing 2 mins for the hill that shall not be named, then boot down and hell for leather home.

Found reading old ultra posts great in getting my head around this. What way are ye thinking about approaching this

My plan is to run the first 5k nice and easy & then speed up a tiny bit for the rest and if there's anything left in the tank use it going down the hill to the finish. Actually practised this at the Listowel marathon at the w/end except I ran each 5k segment a tiny bit quicker given the shorter distance.

Of course given how bad it went for me last year, think I could walk large parts of the course & still improve my time

Down South

ToriV wrote: »

Starting to think about my pacing strategy. This is a hard one to call, as it would on paper seems that you should run the first half faster. But im leaning towards neg split, first half steady with a slight surge before halfway. Add extra time for the hill and then up the pace slightly afterwards. Allowing 2 mins for the hill that shall not be named, then boot down and hell for leather home.

Found reading old ultra posts great in getting my head around this. What way are ye thinking about approaching this

Thinking something similar. Hopefully still pretty fresh for hill out of Leenane. Up the pace a bit after that and judging the pace on the last hill on how I feel. The final stretch I expect to be on reserves and just going for it.

Down South

ToriV wrote: »

It snuck up fast didnt it! Looking forward to it, but hope to avoid that paranoia i got last time ..... about stairs and germs and the like! Feeling restless though. How about you?

Shaking off a bit of a head cold, which is making me a little paranoid. Happy with training though Ive had a few injuries, thankfully missed very little. Just hoping nothing goes wrong on the day injury wise and the weather gods smile a little. First marathon though so a real leap into the dark.

echancrure

First ultra here so I am jumping into the unknown. Training has been poor (though I managed the long runs) and so has weight management.

A few weeks ago I was aiming for sub 5 (weather permitting), but not so sure now. In a way I should run it for enjoyment but on the other I won't run many ultras so performance is an attraction. Looking at the splits from previous years is not very reassuring: most sub 5 hours runners seem to slow down quite a bit more than expected in the last third. I know there are 2 hills (from experience they add about 6' to my marathon time) but most slow down much more than that. Perhaps my aim of 1:37 at Inagh, 3:14 at Lennane and 4:59 at Maam Cross (1:45 for last third, a slowdown of 8') is a little too optimistic and does not take into account tiredness enough. On the other hand perhaps most people start too fast... Perhaps 1:37 a half is too fast for me given my training...

So perhaps 1:37 a half is the right compromise, if I feel good after 30 miles then sub 5 should be achievable, if I have to slow down after 26 miles so be it, I'll forget the time and try to enjoy the last third knowing that I gave it a go.

This is not taper madness, it is what jumping into the unknown does to you... choosing the right pace is always challenge. Add to this the refueling strategy...

At least this year I have a brand new GPS to replace my stop watch and keep me in the target pace: no more mental arithmetic, no more missing mile signs and being clueless about my pace (those two things were perhaps no bad thing: mental arithmetic keep you busy mentally and being ignorant of your instant pace make you focus on your running style without worrying about being too slow or too fast).

Anyway, look after yourselves people!

nhunter100

echancrure wrote:

A few weeks ago I was aiming for sub 5 (weather permitting), but not so sure now. In a way I should run it for enjoyment but on the other I won't run many ultras so performance is an attraction. Looking at the splits from previous years is not very reassuring: most sub 5 hours runners seem to slow down quite a bit more than expected in the last third. I know there are 2 hills (from experience they add about 6' to my marathon time) but most slow down much more than that. Perhaps my aim of 1:37 at Inagh, 3:14 at Lennane and 4:59 at Maam Cross (1:45 for last third, a slowdown of 8') is a little too optimistic and does not take into account tiredness enough. On the other hand perhaps most people start too fast... Perhaps 1:37 a half is too fast for me given my training...

I ran the ultra in 2015, it was my first one having run the full the previous year. My time was 6.05 . The goal was just to finish. The last 3rd is by far the hillest part. I found my energy levels at the 30 mile mark non existent and had to resort to walking up the last long drag ( hell of the west). The hill out of Leenan I think is far worse the the HOTW tbh. I'm pacing the full this year and hoping for good weather. Best of luck and hope you get the time you're targeting. Even if you don't it will be valuable experience for future ultras.

TFBubendorfer

echancrure wrote: »

So perhaps 1:37 a half is the right compromise, if I feel good after 30 miles then sub 5 should be achievable, if I have to slow down after 26 miles so be it, I'll forget the time and try to enjoy the last third knowing that I gave it a go.

Looking at my own times in Connemara, in 2012 I did 1:36 - 3:12 - 4:53 and in 2014 I did 1:34 - 3:08 - 4:49, so just by that I'd say that a 1:38 start would sound about right for a sub 5.

Enduro would disagree, btw. He advocates negative or at least even splits.

Not that long ago you ran a faster marathon than I ever have, so you are definitely capable of sub-5. I'm pretty sure you won't feel all that great at mile 30. I never did. But a sub-5 would still be on the cards as long as you decide to suffer for it.

event

Can feel the head cold already.

Few changes for me, I can't stay over either night so it's a drive from louth, leaving at 4AM Sunday, park in Galway then drive home after.

Few questions:
1) I'm doing the full, she's doing the half. So she'll be hanging around for her bus when I leave, are there any coffee shops close to the cathedral that'day be open that early?
2) are there any shower facilities close by, any chance of the hotel at finish doing them?

ToriV

nhunter100 wrote: »

I ran the ultra in 2015, it was my first one having run the full the previous year. My time was 6.05 . The goal was just to finish. The last 3rd is by far the hillest part. I found my energy levels at the 30 mile mark non existent and had to resort to walking up the last long drag ( hell of the west). The hill out of Leenan I think is far worse the the HOTW tbh. I'm pacing the full this year and hoping for good weather. Best of luck and hope you get the time you're targeting. Even if you don't it will be valuable experience for future ultras.

What sort of pace strategy are you looking at for the full this year??

nhunter100

ToriV wrote:

What sort of pace strategy are you looking at for the full this year??

Even pace I hope, I'm pacing the full marathon.

ToriV

nhunter100 wrote: »

Even pace I hope, I'm pacing the full marathon.

Usually do fairly even myself but a bit faster in the second half. How are you factoring in the two big hills if you dont mind me asking?

nhunter100

ToriV wrote:

Usually do fairly even myself but a bit faster in the second half. How are you factoring in the two big hills if you dont mind me asking?

As I said even pace. I'm one of the official pacers. Although if someone wanted there is a downward run in to Leenane and the hill is just outside. One can compensate for the other. As for the HOTW I don't consider that a hill it is just a long drag. The biggest problem is you hit it when then there is a lot of the full or half runners on it. A lot of dodging and weaving. On the upside there is a nice downhill into the finish. Once you see the Tower of Peacocks hotel you can put the 'foot down'.

ToriV

nhunter100 wrote: »

As I said even pace. I'm one of the official pacers. Although if someone wanted there is a downward run in to Leenane and the hill is just outside. One can compensate for the other. As for the HOTW I don't consider that a hill it is just a long drag. The biggest problem is you hit it when then there is a lot of the full or half runners on it. A lot of dodging and weaving. On the upside there is a nice downhill into the finish. Once you see the Tower of Peacocks hotel you can put the 'foot down'.

Thanks - appreciate it! Best of luck !