Applying to Study Accounting

vegass13

Hello,
I am 27y old, foreigner, have no undergrad degree.
I studied in an engineering uni course, but dropped out after the second year.
Worked in hotels/rests since and dont want to be stuck in a low level dead end manager position for the foreseeable future.
After researching the internet i got a basic idea of how higher education works in Ireland. I registered in cao and filled out my application, while registering for a toefl test, which i will do in 4 days.
The thing is that considering how bad my income is i dont see myself doing a full time course without the need to work at least 3 days a week and doing these together may be a little bit of a stretch, so now i am only focused on the part time evening courses.
Two courses caught my eye BA (Hons) Accounting and Finance in DBS and the one in Griffith C. The one in Dublin Business School is way more affordable though.
What i want to ask is how hard would it be for me to get accepted, what would help me in the process and how would my life change while doing the 4 years course.
From what ive read on the internet i will have to do a few more exams to get a ACCA degree afterwards, which would take a few more years and doing a few exams.
I see this as a good investment of time, even though i am not as young.
Any suggestions, information and advices are welcomed. Thanks in advance

Edit: Got a call from DBS. They are sending me a letter with forms i need to fill out and based on what i provide? they will tell me whether they accept me or not only within the timespan of a few days. This is what i got from the brief call that i received just now. Any advice on that matter is welcomed, as well. Thank you!

The_Pretender

If you can't afford full time education then I would look at the Accounting Technician course.

It can be done part time and online over two years, though if you secure a merit in the first year exams you would be eligible to go straight into ACA exams if you so wish (with no exemptions - if you complete the two years you would have three exemptions from the CAP 1s).

If I was in your position I'd jump straight into looking for a job in accounting, you can then do the exams alongside the job. It won't get you into a top 10 firm, however you should be able to get into a smaller firm provided you can prove to them that this is something you're interested in and are willing to commit to. Having the Technician course done will go a long way in proving this, and if you can secure a place in an accounting practice then you should be able to jump straight into the ACCA exams.

I can only speak for ACA here, but lectureres always told us that those who complete CAP 1 exams find the CAP 2s and FAEs easier than those who've secure full exemptions from the CAP 1s. I wouldn't focus on getting exemptions, I'd try to get straight into practice and take it from there.

vegass13

@The_Pretender Thank you for the reply.
What are the advantages of choosing to study Accounting Technician over Accounting undergrad program(part-time)?
I will save two years in terms of getting the diploma, but wouldnt my options for a better career be more limited?
If you could give me the major pros and cons it would be appreciated. Thanks

The_Pretender

What college you went to makes very little difference outside of bigger firms, and it hardly makes much difference inside them. Top 10 firms are more interested in the grades you got (they'll want a high 2.1 degree) however even the big 4 do take on school leavers. It's not the same as law where employers will only consider you if you have a degree from X college.

In relation to your education, what will have by far the biggest impact is the accountancy body you are a member of (ACA, ACCA, CPA, CIMA etc). My own experience is that the college where you study your undergrad means very little - ACCA will teach you everything you need to be a qualified accountant, the only impact your college has is how many exemptions you're granted.

Some colleges (I think WIT, Dundalk IT and a few others) will give exemptions for the full 9 F exams for ACCA. However my logic is that you will need 3+ years relevant experience to qualify - why spend 4 years doing an accounting degree to get 9 exemptions from the F papers when you could comfortably sit the 9 F papers in 2 years (ACCA have 4 sittings a year) AND have 2 years of your experience as well?

I don't want to sway you either way, I'm only saying the things I'd like to have known when starting out, there's a lot of different options to choose from and it can be confusing. If you know anyone in the industry then you'd be best to talk to them, they'll be able to tell you how they got to where they did. Perhaps you could talk to the company accountant you work with if they have one?

I find the accounting industry very rewarding. Provided you get in with the right firm, it's an industry that very much rewards people based on merit, unlike other industries where you can be limited based on college choices. What determines how far you go in accounting is both your ability to do the job well and your ability to sell both yourself and your firm to others.

vegass13

As far as accounting qualifications go i'd choose ACCA, as i would prefer an industrial job over working in an accounting practice.
From what i gathered being part-qualified acca matters a lot.
Now getting that through a 4 year part-time study, while working as an accountant would def not be a bad scenario, but not easily achievable considering the fact that nobody would want to hire you. I think i could choose working 2 days a week as an intern(without pay) in the hotel i currently work and slowly get some experience that way. I saw it counts(e.g. if you work 2.5days weekly for 2 years it should count for 1 year of experience).
Getting Accounting Technician education seems like a good choice,too. There is demand(as per jobs.ie) and can land you a job only after two years of study. I think it provides 3 basic exam exemptions and you can then get the other 6 to become part-qualified acca. The diploma seems to limit you to lower-tier jobs, but given how easily you can get further degrees from there that doesn't seem to be any problem. Overall a stable option.
What about studying for F1 to F9 exams. Can you go straight for that? (~6500eu in DBS, given it will take a couple of years to complete? seems okayish). Even if you could it would mean a few years of study before getting any sort of qualification, but one would be able to chip away at the exams slowly but steadily. If possible, seems like a semi-decent plan c.
Now signing up to study Accounting Technician opens up in July, which is very late. It looks like a good choice, but going that road would mean forsaking the part-time undergrad option and if i don't get accepted i will be left with nothing x_x . If someone clarifies how hard it is to get into acc. tech. course, that would be appreciated.
I came to these conclusions based on internet research, watching informative videos and reading the institutions brochures on their websites. Unfortunately i dont know anyone working in that area, tried talking to the accountants @ work but they seem reluctant to spending some of their free time when i went for some guidance. I appreciate the time spent so far @The_Pretender, but i would still ask you or anyone willing, to give his opinion on the options i noted in that post. Thanks again for you time folks.

The_Pretender

vegass13 wrote: »

As far as accounting qualifications go i'd choose ACCA, as i would prefer an industrial job over working in an accounting practice.
From what i gathered being part-qualified acca matters a lot.
Now getting that through a 4 year part-time study, while working as an accountant would def not be a bad scenario, but not easily achievable considering the fact that nobody would want to hire you.

I think it depends really. If you were willing to train in, or at least start off in practice you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a trainee role. I can't speak for industry, maybe someone else can tell you what the market is like for that. Accountants are in huge demand at the minute - ACA salary survey 2014 shows the average salary as €87,500 while the 2016 shows the average as €109,000.

Do remember that when you train in practice the firm will, or should, pay your course fees and exam fees for the first attempt. You will also be given 1 week study leave per ACCA exam (I wouldn't accept anywhere that didn't offer that). In industry the company may or may not pay your education fees, but you more than likely won't get the study leave in industry (I've only ever heard of people using their holiday as study leave).

To be honest if it was me, I'd be looking to jump straight into a trainee role and spending as little time doing courses as possible. It would be far easier to get a job in practice and stay there for a year or so to get the experience and then jump into industry if you wished. I'm sure you've seen from your searching that there are a lot of companies looking for accounts assistants to do exactly this.

It's easy to believe that doing X course will get you this job, or doing Y will limit you to that, but being 100% truthful from my experience, accounting is not like other industries where people care what college or accounting course you did prior to your training. If they care, it will only be about what accounting body you are a part of.

To answer your question on papers F1 - F9, yes you can jump straight into them. Another option for you would be to start working on the F papers right now. The F papers are the foundation & fundamentals of accounting, all the stuff you will learn in an accounting degree.

You could start doing the exams yourself now (a lot of people don't bother with lectures for F1 - F3 as they're computer based so you can take them any time you wish and as often as you like, they just buy the book and study).

vegass13

Your replies have been very insightful and you have my gratitude for that.
Doing the toefl test tomorrow and while waiting for the results(1-2weeks) i will decide which path i will take. Will let you know how things develop. Thanks again!

The_Pretender

No problem vegass, if you've any other queries I'll help if I can. Do keep us updated on the route you go down!

vegass13

@The_Pretender
Just received a letter of acceptance from DBS for their 4year part-time Accounting course.
I plan to keep on working in the hotel, because the money is good during summertime. Will put some cash on the side for rainy days and when i begin my studies in September will start applying for trainee positions in accounting firms and practices. In the meantime I am going to choose two subjects and will study them so my first year goes smoother and I have some idea what the lecturers are trying to teach me.
Going this road will give me a level 8 degree with good exemptions from accounting bodies and the freedom to work and get my three full years of practice while studying.
What do you think about my choice and if it were you what would you change/if anything.

The_Pretender

Great news Vegass. I studied in DBS myself so can't fault them. Not sure which course you're doing, but be sure to check your ACCA exemptions here.

In the meantime I am going to choose two subjects and will study them so my first year goes smoother and I have some idea what the lecturers are trying to teach me.

Meaning you're going to do two of the ACCA exams?

Going this road will give me a level 8 degree with good exemptions from accounting bodies and the freedom to work and get my three full years of practice while studying.
What do you think about my choice and if it were you what would you change/if anything.

Stick with it and it'll get you where you want to be. To echo what I said, be sure to see exactly what exemptions you get doing the course. I wouldn't see much point doing one course for 4 years to get 5 or 6 exemptions when another course could give you exemptions for the full 9 F exams. I expect the one you're planning on doing should give good exemptions considering the volume of ACCA students who study with DBS.

To be honest I'm not sure about finding trainee roles when starting college in September. I've never heard of people landing a trainee role when they're just starting college - perhaps in the final year or two a firm may take you on seeing as you'd only have a year left and will be starting the P exams straight away. If you did find one I would be expecting very low salary for the duration of your college time.

Since you asked what I'd do I guess I'll offer my take

If I was advising someone in school, I'd say go the full time college route - get the life experience, open your eyes a bit and get a better idea of where you want to go. At 27, you have a fair idea of what way you see yourself going and so I wouldn't see it as necessary. If you check here you can see they don't require a college degree, they're looking for someone to jump straight in. Recruiters can also be a big help - Amicus, Accountancy Solutions etc.

Again, that's just what I'd do. Always good to see all of your options available.

Pawwed Rig

I did the DBS degree and was offered an EY training contract. I was older than you when I started too. DBS is a great spot. Still meet friends that I made while studying there. You need to be getting a first or a 2:1 in your final year exams.

You also have the option of going directly to ACCA. The DBS degree will give you exemptions from F1 to F9 but you could do these exams independently.

vegass13

@The_Pretender I plan on going to DBS tomorrow to ask them some of these questions. The ACCA website only shows the full time course, and it gives full exemptions from the F exams if one chooses to take certain classes(i'd assume students are given options to choose classes they want to study). The course i chose is also BA(Hons) level 8, so i hope i will get the same exemptions. Want to be certain though, so I will definitely be asking about that.
The second thing i want to clarify with them is whether i will be exempted from some of their classes if i take ACCA tests before my first year commences and how will i get scored for it.
As for getting a trainee job in a practice, it was you who suggested that to me and said it shouldn't be way too hard to land it. As long as it is a paid job, even a minimum wage will be fine for me. All i want is to get the experience and learn from my colleagues.
Will post an update with info from DBS if they can see me tomorrow, or alternatively next week.
@Pawwed Rig thanks for jumping in. Your reply is appreciated too.

vegass13

Just came back from DBS. Met with a member of their admission's team. My questions were answered, but the whole talk seemed rushed from their side and lacked details.
Was told that my Ba degree will give me exemptions from all F exams. Not much info apart from that. I checked the ACCA website myself and it only shows info about the full-time course. The classes are exactly the same though, so exemptions should be the same.
I told the adviser that I want to either take first ACCA Foundation exams on my own and then ask to be exempted from some of the classes or study directly for some of the first year Ba classes. She told me i can get the books for the course classes from the library only, but to access the library i need to be a registered student(which i won't be until September) and then advised me not to buy any books from outside sources. She advised me not to take ACCA exams either, because i will be exempted from them anyway. This is where we kinda reached an impasse. I am open to studying any subject that will help me and waiting half a year doing nothing wasn't something i wanted to do.
She then offered me to visit their next open day, which is next month and talk to the lecturers from Accounting classes and they would be able to recommend me what books to read.
That was kinda it. The adviser was eager to send me off so i just thanked her for her time and left.

EDIT: A book for ACCA F1 exam with delivery is just short of 50eu, so I will order that and fill up my time until the college open day in March.
http://kaplan-publishing.kaplan.co.uk/acca-books/f1/pages/complete-text.aspx

Pawwed Rig

vegass13 wrote: »

Was told that my Ba degree will give me exemptions from all F exams. Not much info apart from that. I checked the ACCA website myself and it only shows info about the full-time course. The classes are exactly the same though, so exemptions should be the same.

It is the same course. Exemptions will be the same. It also provides you with CAP 1 exemptions should you go ACA route.

What do you ultimately want to do? What area of accountancy interests you?

vegass13

Its hard for me to answer that question, because i dont have enough in-depth knowledge about each route. When i know more about them i will decide what would work best for me. Generally i want to work at a place where my opportunities to grow wont be capped and i will be paid based on my value, rather than doing high loads of work that can be done by anyone with basic knowledge in accounting.

mdwexford

I'm doing the ACCA Accounting Technician course and I use the bpp study text and practice and revision kit and find them very good.

http://www.bpp.com/lm-product-details/lmproddetails/10459

Open tuition is also a very good free site. Course notes, lectures etc.

http://opentuition.com/

Pawwed Rig

OK but if you want to do management accounting or tax then AITI or CIMA might be better routes for professional exams.