Bust Éireann

Brendan Bendar · 31-01-2017 9:37pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Despite FT being put up as the elephant in the room, it is not a serious factor in any of the CIE group costs and never was. You are right. The cost base is and always was the issue. However FT will be the bone that some will be hell bent on chewing at.

You are correct Grandeeod, unfortunately some will be taken in by that rubbish.

Hopefully the taxpayer can see through what the agenda is.

n97 mini · 31-01-2017 9:48pm

When I worked in the public sector and put out requests for tender, the first tender in the letterbox didn't get the job simply because they were first. The job went to those who provided the best overall package. I would seriously hope the NTA operates the same way.

end of the road · 31-01-2017 10:03pm

n97 mini wrote: »

When I worked in the public sector and put out requests for tender, the first tender in the letterbox didn't get the job simply because they were first. The job went to those who provided the best overall package. I would seriously hope the NTA operates the same way.

of course they do. they have to operate within the tendering rules as legally set out.

n97 mini · 31-01-2017 10:13pm

end of the road wrote: »

of course they do. they have to operate within the tendering rules as legally set out.

Great. Rules out the notion BE should be awarded a licence first just because they applied first.

end of the road · 31-01-2017 10:27pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Great. Rules out the notion BE should be awarded a licence first just because they applied first.

it doesn't as simply applying for a licence to operate a new route off one's own back isn't tendering. if BE expressway apply for a new route off their own back then in theory they would get it as per the rules for commercial services which seem to operate on a first come first serve basis.

n97 mini · 31-01-2017 10:40pm

end of the road wrote: »

it doesn't as simply applying for a licence to operate a new route off one's own back isn't tendering. if BE expressway apply for a new route off their own back then in theory they would get it as per the rules for commercial services which seem to operate on a first come first serve basis.

So now you're saying they don't tender. Make up your mind!

hmmm · 31-01-2017 11:03pm

end of the road wrote: »

they either have free travel or they don't. if they are entitled to free travel then it must remain free. it's not the job of the users on the scheme to be paying anything if the scheme is free travel for the user. so absolutely it's our job to pay.

"Free travel" is not some constitutional right or something handed down by the Human Rights act. It's just a perk that was introduced by a Taoiseach who purchased the grey vote at the time.

If the public decide its better to charge a small sum, so be it. There's a lot more things that we're better off spending our money on than guaranteeing free travel for a million people.

boobycharlton · 31-01-2017 11:05pm

FT has very little to do with BE's financial problems. It's amazing how people still fall so easily for such an obvious diversion tactic though.

end of the road · 31-01-2017 11:11pm

n97 mini wrote: »

So now you're saying they don't tender. Make up your mind!

i'm not. no need to make up my mind at all.

hmmm wrote: »

"Free travel" is not some constitutional right or something handed down by the Human Rights act. It's just a perk that was introduced by a Taoiseach who purchased the grey vote at the time.

If the public decide its better to charge a small sum, so be it. There's a lot more things that we're better off spending our money on than guaranteeing free travel for a million people.

the public won't have a say in the matter, so what they decide means jot and won't be relevant. if the public decide something and the government decide otherwise then the government's decisian will be the one implemented. government implement the decisians, not the public.

L1011 · 31-01-2017 11:21pm

end of the road wrote: »

the public won't have a say in the matter, so what they decide means jot and won't be relevant. if the public decide something and the government decide otherwise then the government's decisian will be the one implemented. government implement the decisians, not the public.

And if the government decides to cut free travel, what will you be saying?

Sam Russell · 01-02-2017 7:46pm

Could not some of the 516 redundancies not transfer to Dublin Bus, as they are looking for drivers? Obviously, only drivers in Dublin would want to, but it could be made attractive.

Could the FTP be withdrawn from BE commercial routes as the FTP is not accepted on DB commercial routes like 747, 757?

Del.Monte · 01-02-2017 8:35pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could not some of the 516 redundancies not transfer to Dublin Bus, as they are looking for drivers? Obviously, only drivers in Dublin would want to, but it could be made attractive.

Could the FTP be withdrawn from BE commercial routes as the FTP is not accepted on DB commercial routes like 747, 757?

The FTP is a red herring as there aren't people being left behind at bus stops due to FTP holders occupying all the seats on the bus - at least not in my experience. That said, I have yet to hear one rational argument as to why FTP holders should not either pay a small annual fee or a fee per journey as a contribution to the cost of providing the service.

Sam Russell · 01-02-2017 8:49pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The FTP is a red herring as there aren't people being left behind at bus stops due to FTP holders occupying all the seats on the bus - at least not in my experience. That said, I have yet to hear one rational argument as to why FTP holders should not either pay a small annual fee or a fee per journey as a contribution to the cost of providing the service.

The issue is not that people being left behind but how many services are run for FTP holders. If, say 40% of travellers are FTP passengers, could BE cut their service if FTP did not travel because they had to pay even a token amount?

An annual charge might increase FTP use because users would want to get their value from the subscription.

Another option would be to re-introduce the 9:30 am start time. Exceptions such as school travel could be issued with special passes.

end of the road · 01-02-2017 8:49pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The FTP is a red herring as there aren't people being left behind at bus stops due to FTP holders occupying all the seats on the bus - at least not in my experience. That said, I have yet to hear one rational argument as to why FTP holders should not either pay a small annual fee or a fee per journey as a contribution to the cost of providing the service.

because if they are on a free travel scheme it's not their job to pay. if they want people to pay then either narrow the threshold of those who are entitled to the benefit or simply abolish it.

Brendan Bendar · 01-02-2017 8:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

because if they are on a free travel scheme it's not their job to pay. if they want people to pay then either narrow the threshold of those who are entitled to the benefit or simply abolish it.

and that would achieve what?

Bottom like is cost base, way too high to compete.

You know that.

Grandeeod · 01-02-2017 9:35pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

and that would achieve what?

Bottom like is cost base, way too high to compete.

You know that.

EOTR doesn't care. You are wasting your time. He has no alternative view. He only toes the party line and never, ever offers anything in the way of solutions. That tends to be someone elses problem. This only seems to happen when Unions are involved.

Brendan Bendar · 01-02-2017 9:41pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

EOTR doesn't care. You are wasting your time. He has no alternative view. He only toes the party line and never, ever offers anything in the way of solutions. That tends to be someone elses problem. This only seems to happen when Unions are involved.

Yeh, G, got that impression long ago.

Listening to the news this evening the same modus operandi seems to be employed with this, the DB and the Luas dispute.

Try to drag the Govt. and minister into the mix at all costs.

Hopefully Ross will not fold this time and will not hang the taxpayer out to dry.

howiya · 01-02-2017 9:43pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could not some of the 516 redundancies not transfer to Dublin Bus, as they are looking for drivers? Obviously, only drivers in Dublin would want to, but it could be made attractive

Imagine the problems that could cause. Arguments over seniority, pay scales etc. Making it attractive would suggest giving them better terms than the other guy who starts the same day but hasn't worked for BE.

Much better for them apply for jobs at DB off their own bat if they are made redundant and if they so choose.

Grandeeod · 01-02-2017 10:05pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yeh, G, got that impression long ago.

Listening to the news this evening the same modus operandi seems to be employed with this, the DB and the Luas dispute.

Try to drag the Govt. and minister into the mix at all costs.

Hopefully Ross will not fold this time and will not hang the taxpayer out to dry.

At this point, I just laugh at the predictability of it. What I don't laugh at, is the fact that these charades are accepted and allowed to continue. I'm a firm believer in employment rights and I believe we have very good mechanisms outside of the union scenario. However I'm sickened by the legacy that CIE and its union culture continue to inflict on us.

When I hear posters trying to claim that the BE wage is the market wage, I know I'm dealing with a twat that either knows nothing about the history of the CIE group or is simply consumed by a union agenda.

end of the road · 01-02-2017 10:12pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

EOTR doesn't care. You are wasting your time. He has no alternative view. He only toes the party line and never, ever offers anything in the way of solutions. That tends to be someone elses problem. This only seems to happen when Unions are involved.

nope. incorrect.
i very much care about this issue and i have said that both staff/union and management need to get talking and solving and that striking over the issue would not be the best move if it was to happen. i don't do toeing the party line and i'm not company management nor do i have anything to do with the company so it's not up to me to offer a solution to the issue. i do hope a solution that benefits all is found.

Brendan Bendar · 01-02-2017 10:12pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

At this point, I just laugh at the predictability of it. What I don't laugh at, is the fact that these charades are accepted and allowed to continue. I'm a firm believer in employment rights and I believe we have very good mechanisms outside of the union scenario. However I'm sickened by the legacy that CIE and its union culture continue to inflict on us.

When I hear posters trying to claim that the BE wage is the market wage, I know I'm dealing with a twat that either knows nothing about the history of the CIE group or is simply consumed by a union agenda.

Me too, but getting sick of being ridden ragged by transport unions.

ultra violet 5 · 01-02-2017 10:14pm

they wasted too much money modernising busses

the drivers pay is well earned, wouldn't dispute that,

salonfire · 01-02-2017 10:22pm

ultra violet 5 wrote: »

the drivers pay is well earned, wouldn't dispute that,

It's above the market rate.

Do you pay over the odds and use the most expensive electricity supplier? The most expensive mobile phone carrier?

I would guess no.

Then why should BE pay more for labour when others (in the private sector) are willing to do the job for less and still maintain the same safety standard.

Sam Russell · 01-02-2017 10:22pm

howiya wrote: »

Imagine the problems that could cause. Arguments over seniority, pay scales etc. Making it attractive would suggest giving them better terms than the other guy who starts the same day but hasn't worked for BE.

Much better for them apply for jobs at DB off their own bat if they are made redundant and if they so choose.

Well, the BE drivers could join at their current seniority and take the DB jobs on offer if it suited them. A displacement allowance could be paid to help them decide. Some BE drivers might be happy to move to DB if it meant they kept their jobs and did not suffer financially.

If a driver has been driving for, say, 20 years with BE, he might be happy to move to DB and get the rate for a DB driver of 20 years service rather than get some redundancy money and move to the private companies on half pay.

It might not be necessary for BE to close all of Expressway.

ultra violet 5 · 01-02-2017 10:25pm

salonfire wrote: »

It's above the market rate.

Do you pay over the odds and use the most expensive electricity supplier? The most expensive mobile phone carrier?

I would guess no.

Then why should BE pay more for labour when others (in the private sector) are willing to do the job for less and still maintain the same safety standard.

i meant they would be better tto keep the busses and drive them into the ground and not spending millions on these modern busses, i'd prefer to be able to bus iinto town for 5 euro on an old bus that go for 8.90 euro on some bloody mercedes bus

howiya · 01-02-2017 11:41pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, the BE drivers could join at their current seniority and take the DB jobs on offer if it suited them. A displacement allowance could be paid to help them decide. Some BE drivers might be happy to move to DB if it meant they kept their jobs and did not suffer financially.

If a driver has been driving for, say, 20 years with BE, he might be happy to move to DB and get the rate for a DB driver of 20 years service rather than get some redundancy money and move to the private companies on half pay.

It might not be necessary for BE to close all of Expressway.

I think you may have missed my point. Sure what you're suggesting is great for the individual BE driver that would move on those terms.

What do Dublin Bus get out of it?

It would create an industrial relations minefield. Imagine you are a DB driver with six years service. The BE driver transfers over and on day one he is earning the rate of a driver with 20 years service. Would you be happy?

If the BE driver doesn't want to work for the privates he doesn't have to. He could simply apply for the DB job and enter on the same terms as anyone else.

n97 mini · 02-02-2017 12:24am

Read this evening that BE's absenteeism due to sick days is very high, averaging 104 people off sick every day, 365 days a year.

Unless my maths are flawed that's 14 days per employee (2700 total) per year?

Bass Reeves · 02-02-2017 12:29am

There are a few issues at BE. Inflexible staff arrangements are more than likely most of the problem. Inflexible staffing arrangements add to wage costs. It is often not the basic pay that may be out of line but issue relating to work practices where drivers may be not required for a particular day at there normal duties and will not fill in else where.

I do not think making drivers redundant may be an issue. More than likely there are drivers that are within a few years of retirement that would retire if a redundancy package was in place. But the real issue is that afterwards other drivers have to change work practices. This is often the core of the issue where other drivers do not want to change to retain there jobs.

Infini · 02-02-2017 5:32pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0202/849635-bus-eireann/

All out strike if pay cuts implimented from the 20th.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 02-02-2017 5:40pm

Infini2 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0202/849635-bus-eireann/

All out strike if pay cuts implimented from the 20th.

not surprised at this. Fairly predictable in a way. Big question now is: is this going to spread to IE and DB?.
Hopefully, something positive can be worked out to everyone's benefit.:eek:

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