Bust Éireann

Brendan Bendar

Bottom line is of course is it costs way too much to run the service.

No amount of spin or rhetoric will change that.

Work practices and costs are way out of line with competitors.

The unions seem to think that the taxpayer will fund this inefficient and bloated concern indefinitely, whilst those representing the workforce avow to not giving an inch.

Time to put an end to this rubbish and take these people on, in my opinion.

Brendan Bendar

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest everyone is entitled to a decent living but attacking other workers because its PERCEIVED or ASSUMED that they got a handy number or they got the good life is at this stage getting old now. At this stage it just feel's like bitterness is setting in and the conversation gets a little stale since noone is gonna move it just goes back and forth like a pingpong match.

Just what do you mean by "everyone is entitled to a decent living".

MKH

BE drivers earn money that many in the private sector can only dream of and I am not talking about part-time cleaning ladies. If BE was able to finance that, nobody would begrudge them the money. However, that's not the case.

I saw some articles in certain newspapers suggesting the government should jump in, maybe use the Apple tax money to pay for BE. I think that's ridiculous given the situation in other parts of the public sectors. We shouldn't finance a pleasant middle-class lifestyle for the low-skill workers of a few state enterprises when people can't even get hospital beds half the time.

cilles man

Let's be honest here people have short memories , especially what happened with the banking crisis, when the government lobbed money into them , banks then turned round and gave their employees a pay rise. So it's ok to leave people stranded in rural Ireland and our minister for transport wouldn't intervene, wouldn't happen in any other country only here, ceo of bus Eireann is on €180k a year , is he going to take a hit?Working man again is the victim.

Brendan Bendar

cilles man wrote: »

Let's be honest here people have short memories , especially what happened with the banking crisis, when the government lobbed money into them , banks then turned round and gave their employees a pay rise. So it's ok to leave people stranded in rural Ireland and our minister for transport wouldn't intervene, wouldn't happen in any other country only here, ceo of bus Eireann is on €180k a year , is he going to take a hit?Working man again is the victim.

People have long memories.

They see where they are being shafted by unions using opportunistic tactics
to get 'ahead of the posse'.

They are not going to see their taxes squandered to featherbed an inefficient loss making outfit whose pay and conditions are wY out of kilter with industry norms.

Stephen15

Few quick questions about the bus eireann strike.

Are buses going pulled from service at 9 similar to the DB strike

Also what is the likelihood of this spreading to DB or IR. I really don't I can sit through another DB strike.

Bass Reeves

First off third party strikes are illegal. What may be an issue is where bus and rail depots are on the same site. However this did not impact on LUAS at Connelly station. I do not think that the CEO of buss Eireann being on 180k would be above the norm for a CEO of a business with the turnover of 350 million. By the way it seems that the basic pay is not the issue rather it is things like overtime, allowances, work practices and an abnormally high level of sick leave.

Just as an aside I was listening to the news the other night. There was an item about the HSE and it inability to recruit nurses. They recently had a campaign to recruit those that are abroad. Even with a movement allowance they only managed to get 125 applications. Now from my knowledge most nurses even with allowances are on less than BE bus driver. The main issue was that the basic pay levels are not in the league of other post abroad and we have higher tax rates. The HSE has a big issue with rising nurses pay rates, it will have knock on claim's from other grades. Then you look at the twats in BE and the other transport workers, the ASTi and the guards.

Nurses are after doctor's about the most expensive graduates to train and we cannot retain them in the country because of pay levels. We have plenty of teachers guards, bus and train drivers because all are paid above the European norm.

StreetLight

We have plenty of teachers guards, bus and train drivers because all are paid above the European norm.

Dublin Bus don't have 'plenty of drivers'. They are perpetually under-staffed and cannot attract enough of the right calibre of person to get through their assessment tests.

TheQuietFella

Bus Eireann is totally under financed like a lot of other areas.

Busaras is not fit for purpose and should be relocated outside of Dublin City.

Money should have been invested in the rail network years ago to cover Meath,

Kildare, Cavan and the outer suberbs of Dublin. It's all too little too late what's

being done at the moment. By the time it's completed it will be out of date!

Why are they planting so many trees on O'Connell Street? Surely come the

Autumn the leaf litter will make it difficult for the Luas to run on the tracks!

Brendan Bendar

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off third party strikes are illegal. What may be an issue is where bus and rail depots are on the same site. However this did not impact on LUAS at Connelly station. I do not think that the CEO of buss Eireann being on 180k would be above the norm for a CEO of a business with the turnover of 350 million. By the way it seems that the basic pay is not the issue rather it is things like overtime, allowances, work practices and an abnormally high level of sick leave.

Just as an aside I was listening to the news the other night. There was an item about the HSE and it inability to recruit nurses. They recently had a campaign to recruit those that are abroad. Even with a movement allowance they only managed to get 125 applications. Now from my knowledge most nurses even with allowances are on less than BE bus driver. The main issue was that the basic pay levels are not in the league of other post abroad and we have higher tax rates. The HSE has a big issue with rising nurses pay rates, it will have knock on claim's from other grades. Then you look at the twats in BE and the other transport workers, the ASTi and the guards.

Nurses are after doctor's about the most expensive graduates to train and we cannot retain them in the country because of pay levels. We have plenty of teachers guards, bus and train drivers because all are paid above the European norm.

Good synopsis there Bass, sums it up well.

Basic pay in BE won't be touched I understand.

It's the work practices which drive up the cost base,such as sick leave and overtime and premium payments which pile on the pressure on BE.

The same people are on every transport thread trying to defend the indefensible.

Now I have every respect for BE drivers but I feel they are being led astray by militant unions who see opportunities to create disruption in the current Govt. situation.

The hard pressed taxpayer will not appreciate featherbedding already well paid and well conditioned workers to continue to adhere to outdated and inefficient work practices and conditions relative to the competition.

Remember Aer Lingus?

They had to bite the bullet and change when Ryanair got big or the alternative was to fold.

They had to reduce their cost base to realistic terms vs the competitor.

Painfull but necessary.

LeinsterDub

cilles man wrote: »

So it's ok to leave people stranded in rural Ireland .

Apart from a BÉ strike no one will be left stranded in rural Ireland. There is no suggestion of an impact on routes

LeinsterDub

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why are they planting so many trees on O'Connell Street? Surely come the

Autumn the leaf litter will make it difficult for the Luas to run on the tracks!

This hasn't happened any where else along the network. I can't see why it will happen on O'Connell St

end of the road

Bass Reeves wrote: »

the twats in BE

what "twats" . i'm sure they're might be a few as in any line of work or job but to suggest every single worker in the company is one is ridiculous.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Bus Eireann is totally under financed like a lot of other areas.

Busaras is not fit for purpose and should be relocated outside of Dublin City.

Money should have been invested in the rail network years ago to cover Meath,

Kildare, Cavan and the outer suberbs of Dublin. It's all too little too late what's

being done at the moment. By the time it's completed it will be out of date!

Why are they planting so many trees on O'Connell Street? Surely come the

Autumn the leaf litter will make it difficult for the Luas to run on the tracks!

re-locating Busaras outside the city should not happen, people want to go to the city or the airport. transport hubs need to be in the city to make them convenient to more people.

i can't comment on whether currently the station is or isn't fit for purpose as i use train rather then bus, so i would be interested in the problems existing with the current station. i agree with the rest of your post though more investment and a building up of the rail network is needed and quick.

Del.Monte

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Bus Eireann is totally under financed like a lot of other areas.

Busaras is not fit for purpose and should be relocated outside of Dublin City.

Money should have been invested in the rail network years ago to cover Meath,

Kildare, Cavan and the outer suberbs of Dublin. It's all too little too late what's

being done at the moment. By the time it's completed it will be out of date!

Why are they planting so many trees on O'Connell Street? Surely come the

Autumn the leaf litter will make it difficult for the Luas to run on the tracks!

It's not the 1st April already is it? :rolleyes:

joeysoap

Might not be as far out as implied. The 100x (Dundalk/Dublin incl airport) service doesn't go to Busaras at any stage, the route is to/from Wilton Terrace, with custom house quay probably as close as it gets to Busaras

Additional stops from website


ex Wilton Terrace also pick up at: Dublin (Baggot St Lower); Dublin (Fitzwilliam Square); Dublin (Leeson St Ormonde Hse); Dublin (Dawson St); and operate via Dublin Port Tunnel.


No mention of Busaras in the schedule.

sdexter

The overtime you are all so set against is a red herring.
Here is the simple way to look at it.
Drivers are paid for 8 hours a day.
It takes 4.5 hours to drive from A to B, so a return journey takes 9 hours.
Do you think it is unreasonable for the drivers to be paid 1 hour of overtime for this?

sdexter

"militant unions"
HAHAHAHA this has to be the biggest lie ever pushed on the people of ireland.
You know that everyone understands FG and FF have 99% of policies in common.
Well everyone who works for CIE/BE/IE/DB knows that the unions and company are working hand in glove, this is all a show for outside audiences.
Three times BE management came up with a survival plan, Three times it was rejected by the department of Transport, this is just the next stage of the plan, "get the unions to apply a bit of pressure, bring the facts into the public eye".
You never would have know about the three rescue plans if it was not for the unions.
Unions and management singing from the same hymn sheet.

Sam Russell

sdexter wrote: »

The overtime you are all so set against is a red herring.
Here is the simple way to look at it.
Drivers are paid for 8 hours a day.
It takes 4.5 hours to drive from A to B, so a return journey takes 9 hours.
Do you think it is unreasonable for the drivers to be paid 1 hour of overtime for this?

That is covered by proper rosters. The driver is paid for 40 hours (or whatever) per week, with rest days. Look at how airlines work.

sdexter

"it's not surprising people get annoyed when they see bus drivers for example in BE are on 60k a year."

Have you not learnt anything?
Did the papers not push the same line of bull**** when DB where on strike?
What did we all learn after the dust had settled?
The real wage for a DB bus driver is 40k a year.

sdexter

You are under the impression that drivers are easily replaced.
well you would be wrong.
DB have basically used up all the spare bus driver capacity in the greater dublin area.
Anyone who has the required licence has already applied for the driving job, there are none left.
In the next few months they will be opening the application process to anyone who has a car licence.
The job has a solid rate of turnover for new drivers, it will have to pay more in the coming years to attract staff. Thats the fact many here dont seem to accept.
BE are in the same boat as DB in this regard.

Bass Reeves

sdexter wrote: »

The overtime you are all so set against is a red herring.
Here is the simple way to look at it.
Drivers are paid for 8 hours a day.
It takes 4.5 hours to drive from A to B, so a return journey takes 9 hours.
Do you think it is unreasonable for the drivers to be paid 1 hour of overtime for this?

AFAIK average wage in BE is about 52k now I imagine basic is around mid 30's it take a lot of It to reach that now bust drivers like truck drivers are limited to 9 hours on the tachograph with a limit of 56 hours a week. It takes fair going to reach another 15-20k onto a bus drivers wages. That equivalent to about 50% on top of basic pay. I think I saw that average sick leave is two weeks per year per employee. The issue with It might not be driving time but added hours for checking vehicle at start of shift, fueling up, getting to passenger area and parking after finishing journey in the evening. What might be 30 minutes work might be allowed as two hours. Add in replacing drivers that are on sick leave and bill climbs. As well drivers that are rosteted to drive on shorter trips that last 6ish hours are paid for full eight hours. So even though in theory you may be showing g a 50 hour work week your actual week may be nearer a normal 40 hour week.

In the private companies worker are paid for shifts worked. Some only want to work 2-3 shifts a week more will work maximum legal hours. There are no wishy-washy hours for parking or refueling. You find often the hourly rate is higher than BE but less farting around

sdexter

"AFAIK average wage in BE is about 52k now I imagine basic is around mid 30's it take a lot of It to reach that now bust drivers like truck drivers are limited to 9 hours on the tachograph with a limit of 56 hours a week"

AFAIK is that all you have to back up the crazy 52k?

you basically answered the question "how much are are the drivers on"
The working time act applies to bus drivers as well.

If they are on mid 30k a year as you think, how could they make 52k or the posted here 60k?
They can only work so many hours a week by law, they cant make the 60k posted here, they not allowed to work the hours required.

sdexter

5:45 hours is the max a driver can go without a break.
Now with the EU working time act how is it possible for a bus driver to make 60k per year?

sdexter

refueling

BE/DB drivers do not refuel the bus.

The lack of knowledge on display here is shocking.

Brendan Bendar

sdexter wrote: »

refueling

BE/DB drivers do not refuel the bus.

The lack of knowledge on display here is shocking.

Now we are getting down to the ridiculous on all sides.

Bottom line.

Get into talks, sort the thing out to mutual benefit, otherwise the company folds with all the consequence that brings.

Everything else is periphoral

What is not disputed is that BE costs and work practices are way above the competitors.

Circle needs to be squared rapidly.

Arguing about incidental stuff does nobody any good.

TheQuietFella

LeinsterDub wrote: »

This hasn't happened any where else along the network. I can't see why it will happen on O'Connell St

It happened last Autumn at Hueston Station. Trains were delayed due to the wheels not being able to grip the rail!

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/leaves-on-the-line

TheQuietFella

sdexter wrote: »

5:45 hours is the max a driver can go without a break.
Now with the EU working time act how is it possible for a bus driver to make 60k per year?

4.5 hrs if I'm not mistaken. A driver max hours per week is 56 hrs but

they can only work 24 hrs the following week. Just looking at it in the rules

of the road handbook!

BuffyBot

Folks, it's quite obvious that trolls, and certainly this easily identifiable repeat troll, thrive on responses.

Don't feed them by providing the oxygen they so desire. Report, don't respond.

LeinsterDub

TheQuietFella wrote: »

It happened last Autumn at Hueston Station. Trains were delayed due to the wheels not being able to grip the rail!

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/leaves-on-the-line

That's a train not the Luas

TheQuietFella

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's a train not the Luas

It doesn't matter what it's called, they are still trains running on rails!

Have a look at this!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqV62IIRpWM