Bust Éireann

Grandeeod

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest this is somewhat a consequence of the breakup of the original CIE. The public transport sector shouldn't be competing against itself in this regard tho.

Honestly it might be better to reintegrate the 3 CIE companies back into one under control of the NTA, jettison the useless parts of management and start over with a slimmer management system.

Are you for real?

The only reason the 3 seperate entities were created was to prevent all out strikes. It actually cost more in the long run. Three seperate CEO's and clerical staff. A Chairman and staff of a holding company. Its just as big a mess as before. They always competed against each other in CIE days. CIE deliberately ran bus services to kill off rail services. Nothing was integrated eventhough it was the one company. Putting it back together would be to the detriment of its customers.

Its a failed brand that is only been held together by unions and cowardly politicians.

Bass Reeves

From what I can see about Expressway is on most routes it service is about 50% of what the PO do. It tends to have a longer stoppage time when it provides no service between late night and early morning. So the question is which is providing the public the best service in other words who is providing the public service.

FF would want to be careful there are a lot more passengers than drivers out there. Why should we subsidize a service that is not being provided. What seems to be catching BE is that because of there failure to provide the service they have lost customers. It interesting actually to see in many cases BE is cheaper to travel with than PO's but have lost market share to the PO's. It is interesting if you look at some routes Tralee/Killarney/ Ennis to Dublin with BE you must buy multiple tickets where as with the PO you can buy a single ticket

If you look at the Ballina to Galway service the first bus arrives in Galway from Ballina at 9.20 this is a bit late for those that might want to commute to work. The last bus leaves from Galway at 18.15 a tight dash if you finish work at 6 pm. Limerick to Galway no bus from Limerick between 17.15 and 21.35 so no use to commuters again. So from this you can see there failure to develop routes

seanin4711

Inefficient, cut them loose

Brendan Bendar

seanin4711 wrote: »

Inefficient, cut them loose

Yep, time to act .

devnull

Bass Reeves wrote: »

From what I can see about Expressway is on most routes it service is about 50% of what the PO do. It tends to have a longer stoppage time when it provides no service between late night and early morning. So the question is which is providing the public the best service in other words who is providing the public service.

Tthere are some Expressway routes such as the 21 between Athlone and Westport that really should be considered as a PSO route, for that to be considered as a commercial route, despite the fact they are the only operator on it and the service is very rural is folly, for routes like that, I honestly believe BE should be allowed to convert them to PSO routes and get paid for them since there is no competition issue here because there is no competition!

The thing is as well that a lot of the Expressway timetables never changed for 5/6/7/8 years in many cases and the only time they changed after that was when the privates did something first. No business should be like that, a properly run business should be looking to constantly develop and improve their services, the trouble with BE historically has been that they only do that when someone else does something to shake the market up.

The privates saw gaps in the market and decided to fill them, the real issue here is that the management of Expressway did not go for those gaps itself, I presume because they felt that such routes would not work out in the end, they would not be viable or they felt that their brand and passenger loyalty would be a good enough reason for passengers to stay with them, which they were very misguided on.

Limerick to Galway no bus from Limerick between 17.15 and 21.35 so no use to commuters again. So from this you can see there failure to develop routes

It does sound a large gap for express services, but they do have stopping services between the two cities and to be honest the X51 is one of the few routes that Bus Eireann did well with, they beat Citylink out of the blocks with that route and Citylink cut back a little bit last year.

However it is strange that despite BE running many more express services than Citylink overall,, Citylink are the only ones who are running services at peak time

Idbatterim

I wonder would private operators step in on routes that it is proposed are scrapped? Bus eireann are crap at what they do... would be interesting

eeguy

Idbatterim wrote: »

I wonder would private operators step in on routes that it is proposed are scrapped? Bus eireann are crap at what they do... would be interesting

I think it would be interesting if private operators that already run the expressway routes step up their service in the event of a strike.

"You go on strike lads, but the only ones affected will be yourselves"

Maybe the private operators will be hiring and take on a few BE drivers, though I doubt they'll get the wages they're familiar with.
The joys of a free market economy

WomanSkirtFan8

[PHP][/PHP]

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yep, time to act .

Agreed. Time to end all the BS and Cut BE loose. Doesn't make sense to keep constantly pumping money into a company which is consistently losing money at the rate that BE are currently.

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

why should he pay for the incompetents of management? he didn't cause the mess.



they should have joined a union. people should join a union and be active in that union. the union is what the members make it.



really? so before hand what was she doing? allowing the misinformation to go unchallenged and uncorrected?

Should have joined a union. Union membership won't do any good when the company are genuinely on the point of insolvency.

You talk of management finding new markets to turn the company around but how do you suppose they do that in four months?

Thankfully the government can't bail these out. It might be a needed dose of reality to the NBRU.

joeysoap

Idbatterim wrote: »

I wonder would private operators step in on routes that it is proposed are scrapped? Bus eireann are crap at what they do... would be interesting

Matthews are the competitor on the M1 route to Dublin from Dundalk (Drogheda, Laytown,) superb service with about 20 departures in both directions daily.

But they don't service the airport. In the 'early' days (10 years ago) they did but it 'delayed' their fast run to the city centre by 15/20 mins. They then came up with a convoluted route to the airport where they dropped you (on request) at the City North hotel and hotel mini bus made the airport run.

Needless to say anybody using the airport used the BE Expressway service.

I would hope that in the event of BE exiting the expressway service that the regulator would insist that private operators service the airport. Properly.

I would prefer BE expressway remained though.

devnull

joeysoap wrote: »

Needless to say anybody using the airport used the BE Expressway service.

I would hope that in the event of BE exiting the expressway service that the regulator would insist that private operators service the airport. Properly.

I would prefer BE expressway remained though.

On the contrary, for the most part it's only been in recent years that Bus Eireann have started to serve the airport on most of their Expressway routes, after the privates started upping their services to such routes.

Of course there are some exceptions, such as Dundalk and Drogheda, but a lot of routes originally terminated at the city centre and BE recommended people get the 747 onwards to the airport.

Infini

Grandeeod wrote: »

Are you for real?

The only reason the 3 seperate entities were created was to prevent all out strikes. It actually cost more in the long run. Three seperate CEO's and clerical staff. A Chairman and staff of a holding company. Its just as big a mess as before. They always competed against each other in CIE days. CIE deliberately ran bus services to kill off rail services. Nothing was integrated eventhough it was the one company. Putting it back together would be to the detriment of its customers.

Its a failed brand that is only been held together by unions and cowardly politicians.

Piss poor management I would agree with you yet by breaking them up to "prevent strikes" did it not make things even MORE messy. I would agree with you that not everyone should be on strike if not everyone is affected but the so called solution isn't exactly any better is it. If anything it just increased the chiefs in the place. Hell the NTA is essentially CIE 2.0 just without direct ownership of the property or business atm.

For one that has been critical of the "union side" though how exactly are they being wrong by looking for the NTA involved here if not the minister who is responsible for all of this? There's legacy issues here not to mention 3 plans were reported by RTE made by the management before now rejected not by the unions but by the NTA/Department. If anything it seems the situations been allowed to fester to try and force a confrontation rather than avoid it. If this were just a private enterprise you could argue it not the NTA's buisness to be involved but its not JUST a private enterprise its a state owned one with political involvements wether anyone wants to deny it or not.

Don't hate the staff who do the job blame the ones who call the shots. There always a few bad apples in any job but there's plenty of others who DO go out of their way to take care of passengers even if you don't want to acknowledge their existence. Regardless of the causes you can bet the staff will fight to resist any cuts or changes to their t&c's without agreement because there's little other options beyond strikes, lest you forget things like no fares days are basically no-go's because of legal blocks.

This thing started over losses in expressway it then spread to become an all out strike and threats of insolvency and it could spread to an all out national transport strike by all 3 companies in a worse case scenario. At the very least rail services could be disrupted or cancelled if pickets are mounted at the shared depot's such is the way these things can spread.

Ultimately this will only get resolved when all parties are made to sit together and sort this mess out, I seriously find that the threat of insolvency may be getting tested at this point because if one of these goes "insolvent" which is a state owned company owned by the state who is liable for ALL LOSSES AND COSTS in the event of the company folding not to mention the mess that would take YEARS to clear up and both political and spillover effects that would occur as a result.

If anything the company going insolvent will cause more problems and collateral damage than simply just plugging the hole right now and overhauling the entire business including how much costs the FTP scheme is causing. This has been cited as an issue before but looking at it it seems the state is paying half or less for the normal cost of a ticket of someone using the FTP. That would be a serious issue in any private business as they would be taking a hit there.

Did notice a video there on the independent on people using the bus and one of the is on the proposed routes to be axed. Interestingly he noted the bus regularly has quite a lot of passengers which would seem quite odd would it not?

bk

Infini2 wrote: »

Did notice a video there on the independent on people using the bus and one of the is on the proposed routes to be axed. Interestingly he noted the bus regularly has quite a lot of passengers which would seem quite odd would it not?

Not odd at all, BE's passenger numbers have actually been increasing. What is odd is that they are losing so much money despite full buses and increased passenger numbers!

The only explanation is that BE as a company is an inefficient basket case. From the reports, the problems are:

- Too many executives, inspectors and mangers compared to number of drivers.
- Too many admins compared to number of drivers
- Admins all on high grades, no low grade admins.
- Too much overtime payments to drivers, vastly inefficient roster scheduling. 1,300 drivers doing the same work that could be done by 950 drivers.
- Far too much absenteeism of drivers.
- Far too much money wasted on marketing
- Bad coach purchasing decisions.

The entire structure of this company is horribly inefficient and completely out of line with what is normal for other operators.

We the tax payer who subsidise BE and pay for tickets, deserve better value for our money then this.

jimmycrackcorm

Infini2 wrote:

Honestly it might be better to reintegrate the 3 CIE companies back into one under control of the NTA, jettison the useless parts of management and start over with a slimmer management system.

The best answer is for the NTA to follow the model of the LUAS. I.e. Invest in buses, technology such as online ticketing etc and licence the routes out to operators.

We shouldn't just open the cheque book for BE when Aer Lingus has already shown how an inefficient semi state company can be transformed.

devnull

Infini2 wrote: »

Hell the NTA is essentially CIE 2.0 just without direct ownership of the property or business atm.

There's a huge difference between the two organisations, I've seen some folly in this thread but I think we've just about seen everything right now, your post takes it to new levels, maybe the staff don't see the difference, but the public certainly do.

The NTA was set up to represent public transport services, taxi regulation and provide an overall transport vision and to make operators work together and try and provide an integrated system, no matter how much the companies don't want to, they also regulate services and before their existence there was no real regulator, when the NTA was formed the 2009 Transport Regulation act was formed as well which for the first time meant there was a body to stand up for public transport users and to be tasked with dealing with the overall system.

They have delivered quite a lot
- Provision of Ticket Machines at Dublin Airport
- Leap Card roll out to 5 cities
- Discounts for switching between multiple modes.
- Wifi on DART, Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus
- Real Time Information across the country
- Integrated Real Time App with Bus, Train and Luas all in.
- Integrated Route Planner showing ALL public transport services.
- Public Transport Spider Maps showing ALL operators.
- Departure and Local Area Boards at Airports, Stations and high traffic areas
- Visitor Leap Card
- Student Leap Card virtually cutting all student travel fraud
- Automatic discounts with Leap 90
- Fare Capping
- Onboard Passenger Information (screens/voice)
- Cycling Planner
- Walking Planner
- Higher spec double deck buses
- An increase in the double decker allocation in regional ciites
- Easier to read timetables in regional cities
- Taxi Fare Estimator
- Leap Card Top Up App
- Taxi Driver Check App
- Maps and guides for major events
- Family Leap Card for 1916.
- Phoenix Park Tunnel

I know that some of the stuff that you would say are basic things, but if they are so basic then the fact that it took until 2010 for the NTA to get going to sort them out, that really says a lot. The CIE companies have not wanted to integrate whatsoever though. CIE for years couldn't even integrate their own companies and there are obvious issues with a company regulating itself .

The trouble is that I'm staggered over and over again that people working for a public transport company that is contracted to provide services to the public appear to have such a serious problem with a body that is there to represent said public, anybody would think that they didn't care about the public.

For one that has been critical of the "union side" though how exactly are they being wrong by looking for the NTA involved here if not the minister who is responsible for all of this?

Your company is inefficient and far too heavily reliant on overtime to staff regular services, this should never happen in any properly run company, and there should not be situations where people are almost doubling their basic salary in perks, spending half their shifts not driving but still getting 1.5 hours overtime, and a situation where the senior drivers appear to be looking after themselves and to hell with the junior drivers.

Your work practices and scheduling systems and productivity levels are shocking within the company and because of this the taxpayer is not getting value for money from the money they are putting in at the moment, so they certainly shouldn't be putting in even more money. When you have sorted the internal problems out and are using taxpayers money in a sustainable and efficient way, then you can come back to them to ask for more money.

There's legacy issues here not to mention 3 plans were reported by RTE made by the management before now rejected not by the unions but by the NTA/Department.

What was in the plans?
When did unions vote on them?

Since according to you the unions had no problem with them, then surely you should have no problem outlining what they are, since if what you say is right, clearly the unions were told to make up their minds that they had no issue with them.

Put I supposed as normal you will just put up terse one line arguments and when you are asked for more information, as per usual you will go very quiet and not be able to supply any. It's a common theme in this thread and all similar ones about it.

Maybe the NTA decided to decline the plan since it was because the plan would negatively effect the public transport userbase or taxpayers? We don't know. So why don't you put the proof up on here and we can all decided, since you are a member of a union and you say the union had no problem with it, I'm sure you can give us full details.

f this were just a private enterprise you could argue it not the NTA's buisness to be involved but its not JUST a private enterprise its a state owned one with political involvements wether anyone wants to deny it or not.

The NTA has no obligation to any company, be that private or otherwise. It's obligations in the state are for the overall public transport system and to deliver their administration, procurement and regulation of that system without fear from operators, unions or other bodies and also without favour. That is what they are doing. No longer do we have the days where CIE are allowed to dictate transport policy and the DFT blindly do whatever they say, we now hare a more consumer focused approach, but I understand some people don't agree with that.

Don't hate the staff who do the job blame the ones who call the shots. There always a few bad apples in any job but there's plenty of others who DO go out of their way to take care of passengers even if you don't want to acknowledge their existence.

The staff are milking the rotas which are not efficient because the less efficient the rotas are the more they can earn in overtime. The higher the staff member is earning, the more they are doing this, this was established in the LRC this week, that basically the higher end of the salary scale everything included was around 60k and was a bunch of senior drivers who were only driving for a little over half their shift whilst at the same time claiming 1.6 hours overtime, meanwhile the juniors were driving a lot more and were earning a lot less because they don't have access to the gold plated rotas.

Regardless of the causes you can bet the staff will fight to resist any cuts or changes to their t&c's without agreement because there's little other options beyond strikes, lest you forget things like no fares days are basically no-go's because of legal blocks.

Because taking no fares, and taking even more money out from a company that is close to going bust will really help your company, I mean, really, I know unions don't think things through often before they do it and just go through with them without considering the consequences, but that really is laughable, the way to deal with a company losing money and almost bust appears to be - hey, lets make them lose more money.

If a manufacturing company was close to going bust and told their staff that they need to take cuts or lose their jobs, do you think their staff giving away their products for free is going to help or hinder their organisation?

This thing started over losses in expressway it then spread to become an all out strike and threats of insolvency and it could spread to an all out national transport strike by all 3 companies in a worse case scenario. At the very least rail services could be disrupted or cancelled if pickets are mounted at the shared depot's such is the way these things can spread.

"Threats of insolvency." honestly do you not get the picture yet, the company will go bust if action is not taken, you appear to believe that the company are going to make themselves insolvent just to spite the staff if they don't get there own way, jesus christ, do you listen to yourself? You appear not to grasp the seriousness of the situation, nobody is threatening insolvency, it's not something someone does, it happens when a business runs out of money and trades negatively and it will happen unless the unions come out of cloud cuckoo land, however much you won't like it.

Ultimately this will only get resolved when all parties are made to sit together and sort this mess out, I seriously find that the threat of insolvency may be getting tested at this point because if one of these goes "insolvent" which is a state owned company owned by the state who is liable for ALL LOSSES AND COSTS in the event of the company folding not to mention the mess that would take YEARS to clear up and both political and spillover effects that would occur as a result.

So basically what you are saying is in this whole debate you are hoping that if you scare people enough, like the unions are scaring the old, vulnerable and disabled stating that expressway cuts will cut off rural areas even though very few expressway routes serve rural areas but the unions are trying to blur the lines between both things to gain some PR from it and It has been said a number of times and in the past when expressway routes have been culled alternatives have been used to replace them.

I think it's an absolute disgrace that the unions are protecting people within the company who are earning over 60k in some places whilst at the same time trying to scare the most vulnerable in our society to win their support in what appears to be an attempt to force the governments hands to give in to them. Weaponising the people who are on low incomes and the elderly and the sick and disabled who rely on such services is completely sick and is the lowest of the low, but that is effectively what is happening now.

If anything the company going insolvent will cause more problems and collateral damage than simply just plugging the hole right now and overhauling the entire business including how much costs the FTP scheme is causing. This has been cited as an issue before but looking at it it seems the state is paying half or less for the normal cost of a ticket of someone using the FTP. That would be a serious issue in any private business as they would be taking a hit there.

If you think the privates who are allowed to accept the free travel pass on their service are getting more than half the cost of a ticket you will be mistaken. Expressway and Dublin Bus commercial services can opt out of the scheme for certain routes, this is what Dublin Bus have done with the 747 and 757.

Did notice a video there on the independent on people using the bus and one of the is on the proposed routes to be axed. Interestingly he noted the bus regularly has quite a lot of passengers which would seem quite odd would it not?

In case you didn't realise, the Derry service is run in conjunction with Ulsterbus who provides the majority of the services on that route. Also just because one timetabled departure is doing well, it doesn't mean the rest on that route operated by Bus Eireann are or the return journey of the same bus is doing well.You can have 49 of 53 seats filled on one bus, but if the next three trips that bus does only carry single figures, it makes the service overall unviable.

salonfire

bk wrote: »

Not odd at all, BE's passenger numbers have actually been increasing. What is odd is that they are losing so much money despite full buses and increased passenger numbers!

The only explanation is that BE as a company is an inefficient basket case. From the reports, the problems are:

- Too many executives, inspectors and mangers compared to number of drivers.
- Too many admins compared to number of drivers
- Admins all on high grades, no low grade admins.
- Too much overtime payments to drivers, vastly inefficient roster scheduling. 1,300 drivers doing the same work that could be done by 950 drivers.
- Far too much absenteeism of drivers.
- Far too much money wasted on marketing
- Bad coach purchasing decisions.

The entire structure of this company is horribly inefficient and completely out of line with what is normal for other operators.

We the tax payer who subsidise BE and pay for tickets, deserve better value for our money then this.

One would think we are still in the 1970s !!

emroid

Not odd at all, BE's passenger numbers have actually been increasing. What is odd is that they are losing so much money despite full buses and increased passenger numbers!

Captain obvious.
Free travel pass numbers have risen year after year, now 1.2million can use them.
When was the last time the money paid by the government for the FTP increased? The 80's or 90's?
There is your answer to how BE can carry more passengers and not be making more money.

Fedupted

eeguy wrote: »

I think it would be interesting if private operators that already run the expressway routes step up their service in the event of a strike.

"You go on strike lads, but the only ones affected will be yourselves"

Maybe the private operators will be hiring and take on a few BE drivers, though I doubt they'll get the wages they're familiar with.
The joys of a free market economy

No they won't :-).
Because they don't accept free travel pass.
Cash only!!!

devnull

emroid wrote: »

Not odd at all, BE's passenger numbers have actually been increasing. What is odd is that they are losing so much money despite full buses and increased passenger numbers!

Captain obvious.
Free travel pass numbers have risen year after year, now 1.2million can use them.
When was the last time the money paid by the government for the FTP increased? The 80's or 90's? There is your answer to how BE can carry more passengers and not be making more money.

If you think that the free travel pass issue is the cause of all BE's problems you'd be wrong. The privates who registered a service from 2010 (when privates were allowed to) have to deal with a system where they only get half or less of the usual fare.

The last review of the funding I believe was 2010, although there was some talk a couple of years ago in the Dail about a €3m increase taking place, but I can't find anything on it now so I assume it has not happened.

Fedupted wrote: »

No they won't :-).
Because they don't accept free travel pass.
Cash only!!!

You will find most privates who started a route before 2010 do take the travel pass, services started after that could not join the scheme because the funding was frozen.

eeguy

bk wrote: »

- Too many executives, inspectors and mangers compared to number of drivers.
- Too many admins compared to number of drivers
- Admins all on high grades, no low grade admins.

It's a funny old world. If BE announced tomorrow they were cutting back on admin and exec staff you'd have all the supporters of the driving applauding. Even though these admin staff are people with families and bills and mortgages too.

Funny how only the lowly "working class" worker is ever supported in these matters, even if he's earning 50k a year, and probably on par with the admin, or support lads.

devnull

It's like I said before, people have no problem ****ting on people they believe to be lower than them in the food-chain, but moan when those above do it to them.

Fedupted

devnull wrote: »

If you think that the free travel pass issue is the cause of all BE's problems you'd be wrong. The privates who registered a service from 2010 (when privates were allowed to) have to deal with a system where they only get half or less of the usual fare.

The last review of the funding I believe was 2010, although there was some talk a couple of years ago in the Dail about a €3m increase taking place, but I can't find anything on it now so I assume it has not happened.



You will find most privates who started a route before 2010 do take the travel pass, services started after that could not join the scheme because the funding was frozen.

So can you tell me what private. Bus company will take you you to roscrea from Dublin city centre on a free travel pass.

devnull

Fedupted wrote: »

So can you tell me what private. Bus company will take you you to roscrea from Dublin city centre on a free travel pass.

JJ Kavanagh
http://jjkavanagh.ie/timetable-detail-page?RouteNo=735&IsWeb=1&IsCollegeRoute=0&Direction=0&RGrp=Main%20Routes%20^%20Airport%20Routes

FAQs:
http://jjkavanagh.ie/faqs

Are free travel passes accepted on JJ Kavanagh & Sons?
Yes, we accept free travel passes on all services, with the exception of college services.

salonfire

Fedupted wrote: »

No they won't :-).
Because they don't accept free travel pass.
Cash only!!!

From Donegal, Feda O'Donnell and John McGinley Coaches take the free travel pass.

Can't get further from Dublin than than the north of Inishowen

WomanSkirtFan8

salonfire wrote: »

From Donegal, Feda O'Donnell and John McGinley Coaches take the free travel pass.

Can't get further from Dublin than than the north of Inishowen

Aircoach also accepts the FTP on their services as well from Greystones to Dublin Airport. :cool:

Fedupted

eeguy wrote: »

It's a funny old world. If BE announced tomorrow they were cutting back on admin and exec staff you'd have all the supporters of the driving applauding. Even though these admin staff are people with families and bills and mortgages too.

Funny how only the lowly "working class" worker is ever supported in these matters, even if he's earning 50k a year, and probably on par with the admin, or support lads.

Maybe because when the s..t hits the fan and them lowly front line staff who actually knows how to do their job and cleric work at the same time. Stands on the picket line. They ARE standing up for you!!
How LUCKY and low are you

eeguy

Fedupted wrote: »

Maybe because when the s..t hits the fan and them lowly front line staff who actually knows how to do their job and cleric work at the same time. Stands on the picket line. They ARE standing up for you!!
How LUCKY and low are you

Sorry, I just think it's interesting how people throw around terms like "working class" and "frontline" and it's never defined what they mean.

Is someone on 35-50k considered working class?
Is someone who sits in a Luas cab all day, separated from customers a front line worker?
You might think a lowly bus driver is on the bottom rung of the ladder, but really there's many ladders, and theirs only has one rung so really they're at the top.

I'd honestly like a answer, because I can't find one anywhere. They just seem like emotive terms, whose connotations are far removed from the people they're applied to.

n97 mini

Fedupted wrote: »

So can you tell me what private. Bus company will take you you to roscrea from Dublin city centre on a free travel pass.

They can get the train. It's more comfortable and just as free.

Fedupted

eeguy wrote: »

Sorry, I just think it's interesting how people throw around terms like "working class" and "frontline" and it's never defined what they mean.

Is someone on 35-50k considered working class?
Is someone who sits in a Luas cab all day, separated from customers a front line worker?
You might think a lowly bus driver is on the bottom rung of the ladder, but really there's many ladders, and theirs only has one rung so really they're at the top.

I'd honestly like a answer, because I can't find one anywhere. They just seem like emotive terms, whose connotations are far removed from the people they're applied to.

Bla bla bla !!!!??????
Is a person in this country now not allowed to earn a living wage, regardless of the work they do,
Please please tell me

oppenheimer1

Fedupted wrote: »

Bla bla bla !!!!??????
Is a person in this country now not allowed to earn a living wage, regardless of the work they do,
Please please tell me

I would say no one is really entitled to anything beyond their basic rights, the have to go and earn their wages.