Bust Éireann

salonfire

end of the road wrote: »

it's not time to let it go to the wall. the tax payer isn't proping up a white elephant, but socially necessary services. it's the job of the tax payer and our duty to fund said services for the greater good of society, insuring people can act on employment and educational opportunities, among many other benefits the service brings. be is not subsidized on a special anything. there is every justification to subsidize these socially necessary but uneconomically viable bus services.

Who are you making this point to? Why are you arguing for a position that nobody is arguing against? Are you sure you are in the correct thread? Do you even know what this thread is about?

There is not a single post in this thread arguing that unecomincal bus services be removed from communities. I see posters actually seeking out alternatives communities can use, eg Clonmel and JJ Kavenagh.

Stephen15

Just out of curiosity what was the scenario in Broadstone back in 2013 when BE were on strike and DB were not.

devnull

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Will Bus Eireann get fined for not providing the service, like the Luas was? Presumably they will also have to refund weekly and return tickets as well.

Nobody is fined for not providing a service - they simply are not paid subsidy since they will not deliver the services said subsidy is paid for under contract.

ED E

devnull wrote: »

Nobody is fined for not providing a service - they simply are not paid subsidy since they will not deliver the services said subsidy is paid for under contract.

Nope. "state penalties of €100,000 a day for failing to deliver the Luas" Its not just that they dont receive their subvention.

devnull

ED E wrote: »

Nope. "state penalties of €100,000 a day for failing to deliver the Luas" Its not just that they dont receive their subvention.

The Luas contract is different.

Idbatterim

I have to say one thing, putting Ross into transport as he is an independent, was a genius move, if this was done to massively curb influence on FG to open the taxpayers cheque book as per usual. I will take my hats off to the foresight of it, given what we are used to here...

GM228

ED E wrote: »

Nope. "state penalties of €100,000 a day for failing to deliver the Luas" Its not just that they dont receive their subvention.

LUAS is not run under a PSO contract.

Under a PSO contract the only recourse for failure to deliver a service is to not pay the equivilant PSO payment for the services affected (subject to a maximum 10% of the annual contract amount).

The reason being is it isn't strictly a contract to run services, but rather a contract to be compensated for running the services. If they don't run then you are not conpensated.

devnull

Idbatterim wrote: »

I have to say one thing, putting Ross into transport as he is an independent, was a genius move, if this was done to massively curb influence on FG to open the taxpayers cheque book as per usual. I will take my hats off to the foresight of it, given what we are used to here...

FF generally were a party to resolve disputes by handing over blank cheques, it happenes so often during their time in office, anytime there was a dispute, throw more money at it was always the result. The problem is that makes things that are providing poor value for money even more inefficient than they were already, but FF thought the money would never run out so that would never be a problem.

The issue is when the money does run out then it's even harder than tackling the problem all those years ago because the people involved have come to expect that the taxpayer will bail them out. All because the FF decided that they were not going to solve any problems, just kick the can down the road for another little while in the hope that it would go away and they never had to actually deal with the problem.

FF are very good at giving people what they want, the trouble is they don't really care about if that is good for the country or not, they'll just give people what they want in order to drum up votes like a true populist party and to win votes, no matter what effect it has on people. They have to be seen to be doing the right thing, even if it doesn't help the country.

Then when they leave a mess for someone else to pick up that they created by not tackling the problems in the first place, they can then point to everyone else and say they are not doing anything to resolve the situation and that they are just standing idly by, or if there are cuts then moan from the opposition benches that cuts to x y and z would never happen if they were there, forgetting that they are the ones who made them necessary in the first place. And if you disagreed with their financial policy? You'll just be told to go and commit suicide.

FG in power have by no means been perfect, but they have attempted to stop the something for nothing culture that exists in unions, they haven't gone for the populist vote a lot of the time they have took decisions that may not be popular for what they believe to be the good of the country even though it might effect their support levels. Over the years we have seen in transport a totally different approach, a need for public companies to be prudent with public finance and not just hand them vast pots of gold at every chance that they get.

salonfire

And not for the first time either in history that Fine Gael / Fine Gael coalition had to clean up after FF mess. The early 90s govt with John Bruton springs to mind.

devnull

Latest NBRU media appears to be looking for a pay rise and everyone elses terms and conditions to be increased across the sector.

Clearly, this will require higher fares or a large increase of funding from the taxpayer.

Idbatterim

the propaganda is pathetic! this getting rural ireland on side, is so transparent! I hope to god but wont hold my breath, that the taxpayers prevails for once! Let them leave for the private operators, because they are so hard done by ... :rolleyes:

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

the propaganda is pathetic! this getting rural ireland on side, is so transparent! I hope to god but wont hold my breath, that the taxpayers prevails for once! Let them leave for the private operators, because they are so hard done by ...

there is no propaganda, if bus eireann goes to the wall rural ireland will be without a lot of services until the replacements can be set up. it is unknown how long that would take.

salonfire

end of the road wrote: »

there is no propaganda, if bus eireann goes to the wall rural ireland will be without a lot of services until the replacements can be set up. it is unknown how long that would take.

You are unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

What services will rural Ireland have if drivers, earning double the average salary, go on strike.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

there is no propaganda, if bus eireann goes to the wall rural ireland will be without a lot of services until the replacements can be set up. it is unknown how long that would take.

as you keep telling us....

end of the road wrote:

they don't as you can get to work and school. car, taxi, bike, horse, walk. yes its difficult but not impossible.

Link

Idbatterim

you cant make an omelette without breaking eggs...

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

as you keep telling us....

Link

being without a service because the state company goes to the wall will be for a lot longer then with a strike. and i have all ready said that in this case i believe a strike isn't the best option. computer says no, try again.

Idbatterim wrote: »

you cant make an omelette without breaking eggs...

who is making an omelette

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

computer says no, try again.

I have no idea what that is meant to mean. When David Walliams says it, it is meant to be nonsense and the other person is correct.
Looks like you have accepted my point.

Idbatterim

my point is, if there is some fall out to all of this, so be it. The ongoing fallout of the inefficient costly joke it is, is something that taxpayers are living with 24/7, frankly I dont care less if there is some turmoil, life will go on...

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I have no idea what that is meant to mean. When David Walliams says it, it is meant to be nonsense and the other person is correct.
Looks like you have accepted my point.

incorrect i'm afraid. your point was incorrect as you are comparing a strike which would usually last a couple of days, with a situation where the worst would happen in relation to bus eireann, which the fallout of could last a lot longer.

Peppa Pig

I see on the news just there that Robert Troy told Shane Ross he has no confidence in him. Shane Ross' response was "If you have no confidence in me why do you want me to get involved in the dispute". Fair point

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

there is no propaganda, if bus eireann goes to the wall rural ireland will be without a lot of services until the replacements can be set up. it is unknown how long that would take.

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect i'm afraid. your point was incorrect as you are comparing a strike which would usually last a couple of days, with a situation where the worst would happen in relation to bus eireann, which the fallout of could last a lot longer.

Which is it - known or unknown?

Brendan Bendar

Forget all the rhetoric and cant.... Here's the bottom line.

Does the hard-pressed taxpayer shunt more tax Euro into a bloated, badly run, uncompetitive,not cost effective entity, or say no!.

This taxpayer says NO!

Get your house in order folks, stop trying to ride the taxpayer ragged, stop trying to take advantage and work the system.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

my point is, if there is some fall out to all of this, so be it. The ongoing fallout of the inefficient costly joke it is, is something that taxpayers are living with 24/7, frankly I dont care less if there is some turmoil, life will go on...

not so be it at all. you will care when the wellfare bill slowly increases. tax payers having to live with something that is being sorted is nothing compared to loss of service and frankly you will have to get over your issues, as people's services are more important then you or me.

sofireland

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Will Bus Eireann get fined for not providing the service, like the Luas was? Presumably they will also have to refund weekly and return tickets as well.

Mind you this could be offset by the wages saved, which will be huge.

You'd think so, however, last time they went on strike, they didn't refund. It's buried in their terms and conditions somewhere.

Joke as they would be the only ones within CIE who don't refund for lost days, a bit galling tbh as my commuter pass costs €2400 per annum, and is paid to end of June. While on strike, i'll have to drive and park in the city, or get the train which means a 20km drive to the station, again, costing me extra money when i've paid for my commute already

Idbatterim

not so be it at all. you will care when the wellfare bill slowly increases. tax payers having to live with something that is being sorted is nothing compared to loss of service and frankly you will have to get over your issues, as people's services are more important then you or me.

Im not saying this applies to everyone, because not everyone can. but take some bloody responsibility and drive! the notion I wouldnt drive in this strike crippled, third world transport country, is a joke!

CIE have contempt for their passengers, I suggest the passengers start voting with their feet...

Grandeeod

I don't know what world EOTR posts from. I really don't.

In the part of rural Ireland that I live in, BE could go to the wall in the morning and life for those that depend on buses, most of which are on FTPs, would continue as normal. Why? Because the services are provided by private companies. They are PSO routes. Always on time. Friendly drivers earning reasonable wages for what they do. The service now in such a pro car society is far superior to anything CIE provided ever. Thats what deregulation has done.

CIE and its union fanboys can get stuffed.

oppenheimer1

Idbatterim wrote: »

I have to say one thing, putting Ross into transport as he is an independent, was a genius move, if this was done to massively curb influence on FG to open the taxpayers cheque book as per usual. I will take my hats off to the foresight of it, given what we are used to here...

I'd say he was stuck into transport as industrial relations issues were definitely on the horizon at the time the government was formed. He will serve as a useful lightning rod and deflect criticism from FG.

Say what you like about the Taoiseach, he's a shrewd political operator.

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

not so be it at all. you will care when the wellfare bill slowly increases. tax payers having to live with something that is being sorted is nothing compared to loss of service and frankly you will have to get over your issues, as people's services are more important then you or me.

Services are important, but we shouldn't have to over pay for them.

Remember, it's the lack of competitiveness in the commercial division that has BÉ where it is.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im not saying this applies to everyone, because not everyone can. but take some bloody responsibility and drive! the notion I wouldnt drive in this strike crippled, third world transport country, is a joke!

CIE have contempt for their passengers, I suggest the passengers start voting with their feet...

not their job to take responsibility and drive as they are taking greater responsibility by using public transport. ireland is not strike crippled, you wouldn't know the meaning of the word

Grandeeod wrote: »

I don't know what world EOTR posts from. I really don't.

In the part of rural Ireland that I live in, BE could go to the wall in the morning and life for those that depend on buses, most of which are on FTPs, would continue as normal. Why? Because the services are provided by private companies. They are PSO routes. Always on time. Friendly drivers earning reasonable wages for what they do. The service now in such a pro car society is far superior to anything CIE provided ever. Thats what deregulation has done.

CIE and its union fanboys can get stuffed.

bus transport in ireland isn't deregulated. bus eireann drivers earn reasonable wages for the job they do, it's the allowences (which are now going to be removed or cut) which bring the pay up.

Idbatterim

not their job to take responsibility and drive as they are taking greater responsibility by using public transport. ireland is not strike crippled, you wouldn't know the meaning of the word

No? the luas drivers a few months ago. Where are IR at now? There werent strikes once they were paid their world class wages, while customers use a third world transport infrastructure...