Bust Éireann

Brendan Bendar

sofireland wrote: »

You'd think so, however, last time they went on strike, they didn't refund. It's buried in their terms and conditions somewhere.

Joke as they would be the only ones within CIE who don't refund for lost days, a bit galling tbh as my commuter pass costs €2400 per annum, and is paid to end of June. While on strike, i'll have to drive and park in the city, or get the train which means a 20km drive to the station, again, costing me extra money when i've paid for my commute already

And then you have elected people in the Dáil, who back up these people and don't give a fiddlers about you.

All they care about is populism and saving their seats.

People like you who pay their way seem to be not in the picture.

Time this riding the taxpayer ragged supported by elected representatives who have never implemented anything were turned on and the taxpayer had a voice in all this.

I have or had no great time for Ross but if he sticks to his guns and puts down these opportunists and defends the vast majority - the taxpayer.

Well, I may change my mind.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

not their job to take responsibility and drive as they are taking greater responsibility by using public transport. ireland is not strike crippled, you wouldn't know the meaning of the word



bus transport in ireland isn't deregulated. bus eireann drivers earn reasonable wages for the job they do, it's the allowences (which are now going to be removed or cut) which bring the pay up.

Okay picky. Not deregulated. More opened up under a form of regulation. But the point I made about rural bus transport still stands. As for BE drivers, management and clerical, its just a CIE gravy train.

Bass Reeves

end of the road wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

the propaganda is pathetic! this getting rural ireland on side, is so transparent! I hope to god but wont hold my breath, that the taxpayers prevails for once! Let them leave for the private operators, because they are so hard done by ...

there is no propaganda, if bus eireann goes to the wall rural ireland will be without a lot of services until the replacements can be set up. it is unknown how long that would take.

The people in rural Ireland will be willing to accept this. It is much preferably than paying extra taxes to fund already patchy services that are run more with the workers in mind rather than the general public. As a person that lives in rural Ireland I am sick of politician from Dublin telling us what we need on this issue. The reality is most politician do not give a fiddler's f@@k about trial Ireland. There only worry is to be caught offside by Dublin based unions.

They do not care that next year that the service for our kids going to university will go up in price by 10-20% or that school bus passes go up for those that work. There crocodile tears is disgusting and a lot of people know that. Whipping up hysteria and frightening older people is absolutely shocking. I was speaking to a mother of a special needs young adult. She was upset wording about the pitiful bust service we have that her daughter uses to access her sheltered employment. I had to explain that the expressway service was totally different to PSO services. I think it is absolutely disgusting the carry on of the NBRU, SF and FF politicians.

The other issue I see about this is it seems that the jobs of BE and Expressway workers are much more important than the jobs of the other commercial operators. I think it is time that journalists on RTE etc question the unions and politicians about this

JCX BXC

Why are the PSO services so expensive? Example, Kilkee to Ennis is €26 return, and then from Ennis to Heuston return on the train is €26 return! Massive difference between the two distances, yet the price is the same.

I see empty buses flying by every day, generally 4 or 5 elderly passengers on board and I can't help but think if the price was cheaper people would use the service more.

devnull

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There crocodile tears is disgusting and a lot of people know that. Whipping up hysteria and frightening older people is absolutely shocking. I was speaking to a mother of a special needs young adult. She was upset wording about the pitiful bust service we have that her daughter uses to access her sheltered employment. I had to explain that the expressway service was totally different to PSO services. I think it is absolutely disgusting the carry on of the NBRU, SF and FF politicians.

I said it before, but weaponising the people who are on low incomes and the elderly and the sick and disabled who rely on such services is completely sick and is the lowest of the low, but that is effectively what is happening now. The tactics have really reached the gutter.

The other issue I see about this is it seems that the jobs of BE and Expressway workers are much more important than the jobs of the other commercial operators. I think it is time that journalists on RTE etc question the unions and politicians about this

I believe that providing good public transport services is the most important thing. Ultimately who provides the service doesn't bother me in the slightest.

end of the road

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The people in rural Ireland will be willing to accept this.

not anyone i have been speaking to when visiting home. they will not be willing to put up with no service should the worst happen. they can deal with a strike as they will know when it is going to likely end all be it they don't like having to do it.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is much preferably than paying extra taxes to fund already patchy services that are run more with the workers in mind rather than the general public.

i presume you mean extra tax money, as there are no plans to introduce extra taxes. especially now that the water charges have been defeated.

n97 mini

Where do you think the money would come from? Increase borrowing and shove the payback onto the next generation, or maybe other services like health could be cut back?

marienbad

end of the road wrote: »

i presume you mean extra tax money, as there are no plans to introduce extra taxes. especially now that the water charges have been defeated.

This makes tax resources even scarcer !

devnull

People have that disconnect though in Ireland, the same ones who don't want to pay for water, are the same ones who want a better water system without taking any money from other departments.

Heisenberg1

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Forget all the rhetoric and cant.... Here's the bottom line.

Does the hard-pressed taxpayer shunt more tax Euro into a bloated, badly run, uncompetitive,not cost effective entity, or say no!.

This taxpayer says NO!

Get your house in order folks, stop trying to ride the taxpayer ragged, stop trying to take advantage and work the system.

Am I missing something with this whole argument in 2015 BE received €33.7 million in subvention from the government but paid back €59 million to the government through taxes so that's a net return of €25.3 million back to the taxpayer, how is the taxpayer been ridden ragged ? The government are getting the €33.7 million back plus the €25.3 million back so the net cost to the government is €0, then again they will blow that money on another Eircode type scheme. I will ageee that there is inefficient work practices that need to be sorted.

Brendan Bendar

devnull wrote: »

People have that disconnect though in Ireland, the same ones who don't want to pay for water, are the same ones who want a better water system without taking any money from other departments.

The same ones who don't want to pay for ANYTHING are first up demanding"world class services" provided they don't have to pay.

As Sean Barrett said this morning, there are people out there who want the PAYE worker to shoulder the burden every time.

He saw wht was happening, that some outside the PAYE net have means and ways to avoid and that dragging that coterie into the net via water charges would lessen the burden on those on PAYE.

That's why there was so much support for the anti water charge brigade.

devnull

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Am I missing something with this whole argument in 2015 BE received €33.7 million in subvention from the government but paid back €59 million to the government through taxes so that's a net return of €25.3 million back to the taxpayer, how is the taxpayer been ridden ragged ?

Can we apply that same logic to bankers bonuses, and take off the amount they paid in tax from their overall salary that we quote? Can we also do the same of any other company we pay money to as well? I

How about other areas of government? Can we do the same for the Taioseach, saying that he only costs €101k because he pays €84k in tax which we get back?

Heisenberg1

devnull wrote: »

Can we apply that same logic to bankers bonuses, and take off the amount they paid in tax from their overall salary that we quote? Can we also do the same of any other company we pay money to as well? I

How about other areas of government? Can we do the same for the Taioseach, saying that he only costs €101k because he pays €84k in tax which we get back?

I haven't mentioned bankers or politicians I am saying that how is the taxpayer getting a raw deal when it's costing €0 to fund?

devnull

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

I haven't mentioned bankers or politicians I am saying that how is the taxpayer getting a raw deal when it's costing €0 to fund?

If you are saying that we should calculate something in a certain way, you need to calculate it that way for everyone, not simply pick and choose what rules you apply depending on if you like the people or not? Otherwise it's extreme spinning.

You do realize, that a company has to pay tax, whether they get money from the government or not?

Grandeeod

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Am I missing something with this whole argument in 2015 BE received €33.7 million in subvention from the government but paid back €59 million to the government through taxes so that's a net return of €25.3 million back to the taxpayer, how is the taxpayer been ridden ragged ? The government are getting the €33.7 million back plus the €25.3 million back so the net cost to the government is €0, then again they will blow that money on another Eircode type scheme. I will ageee that there is inefficient work practices that need to be sorted.

There's kids doing JC business studies with a better understanding than the one you have provided.

Heisenberg1

devnull wrote: »

You do realize, that a company has to pay tax, whether they get money from the government or not?

Do they really ?? Of course I know that what I'm saying is that this company provides an important service throughout the country and I would not like to see people lose there jobs or a race to the bottom, I understand they need to make changes but reading comments like the taxpayer is been creamed when jn reality it cost us the taxpayer €0 at the end of the day.

Heisenberg1

Grandeeod wrote: »

There's kids doing JC business studies with a better understanding than the one you have provided.

So what I said is false ?or I'm misunderstanding the figures ?

end of the road

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The same ones who don't want to pay for ANYTHING are first up demanding"world class services" provided they don't have to pay.

As Sean Barrett said this morning, there are people out there who want the PAYE worker to shoulder the burden every time.

He saw wht was happening, that some outside the PAYE net have means and ways to avoid and that dragging that coterie into the net via water charges would lessen the burden on those on PAYE.

That's why there was so much support for the anti water charge brigade.

no there was support for the movement because the charge was a stealth tax for something people were all ready paying for. it's been defeated and people will have to get over it. so back to bus eireann.

devnull

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Do they really ?? Of course I know that what I'm saying is that this company provides an important service throughout the country and I would not like to see people lose there jobs or a race to the bottom

The staff are nowhere near the bottom, the race to the bottom is just rhetoric in this instance. The senior guys are earning over €60k.

Bus Eireann said in a full costed and written report that there are 1,378 drivers who work overtime each day which equals the cost of 1,636 drivers. It said if the company was to maximise driver efficiency, there would be a requirement for 986 full-time drivers. This alone is a shocking statistic and must be addressed.

Right now they are paying for the equivalent 650 more staff members than the company feels it needs at the moment and the average pay is €45,000 at the driver grade. Essentially the company is saying that with modern working practices and rotas that make the best use of resources, they can save over €25m before even talking about changing any terms and conditions or rates and any other cost measures. That is some waste.

If drivers are being paid for 9.5 hours a day and spending only 5.5 hours a day driving then that is a problem with the rosters that means the staff are not delivering a cost effective service for your employer and this is inefficient, it is in the interests of deveryone that such rotas are eliminated and replaced with ones which give maximum performance from the employees to the employer.

Whatever you say, the fact is that the public are being short-changed.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

no there was support for the movement because the charge was a stealth tax for something people were all ready paying for. it's been defeated and people will have to get over it. so back to bus eireann.

You think the water infrastructure is okay in this country then?

That is like saying we should not have to pay for bus fares as we have already paid for them via our taxes.

Peppa Pig

devnull wrote: »

It said if the company was to maximise driver efficiency, there would be a requirement for 986 full-time drivers.

Ah come on, look at all the income tax those extra drivers pay every week. Not to mention the vat on electricity as they sit in the depot.

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

You think the water infrastructure is okay in this country then?

That is like saying we should not have to pay for bus fares as we have already paid for them via our taxes.

it's not okay but we have the funds to pay for it out of general taxation. my final word on it is that water is a right. should you wish to discuss it further we can do so in the thread on it in the politics forum rather then us clogging up here.

Heisenberg1

devnull wrote: »

You think the water infrastructure is okay in this country then?

That is like saying we should not have to pay for bus fares as we have already paid for them via our taxes.

I don't want to get side tracked but has it not been proven that the taxpayer have already been paying for water through the car tax and VAT over the years to the tune of 100s of millions.

Grandeeod

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

So what I said is false ?or I'm misunderstanding the figures ?

Its simply misleading.

Heisenberg1

Grandeeod wrote: »

Its simply misleading.

Please explain ? Are the figures incorrect ? Is my understanding of the firgues incorrect? how are they misleading?

devnull

X12 Update: http://buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2251&month=Mar

Bus Eireann would like to advise our customers of changes to our X12, Limerick/Dublin/Dublin Airport Timetable. From Sunday, 12 March 2017 the following services will be cancelled:

Monday - Sunday: Cancellation of 16.30 service from Dublin Airport
Monday – Saturday: Cancellation of 20.45 service from Limerick

Friday & Sunday: Cancellation of 18.45 service from Limerick
Friday: Cancellation of 13.00 service from Dublin Airport

Saturday and Sunday: Cancellation of 06.00 & 10.00 services from Dublin Airport
Saturday and Sunday: Cancellation of 05.20 & 11.45 services from Limerick

New Timetable:
http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1488386987-X12.pdf

Old Timetable:
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1470227332-12X.pdf

marienbad

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Please explain ? Are the figures incorrect ? Is my understanding of the firgues incorrect? how are they misleading?

They are misleading in that you want to use a mechanism that does not apply to any other entity .

This is a variation on the arguments the farming community used to use all to years ago by saying sure we pay vat don't we , problem is so does everyone else as well as income tax.

L1011

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Am I missing something with this whole argument in 2015 BE received €33.7 million in subvention from the government but paid back €59 million to the government through taxes so that's a net return of €25.3 million back to the taxpayer, how is the taxpayer been ridden ragged ? The government are getting the €33.7 million back plus the €25.3 million back so the net cost to the government is €0, then again they will blow that money on another Eircode type scheme. I will ageee that there is inefficient work practices that need to be sorted.

Two issues

1: PAYE is paid by the employee not the employer. People will be paid by any firm but most firms do not require state support to pay their wages.
2: This is a worryingly common fallacy in arguments about state/semi-state bodies in terms of viability. The same taxes will have to be paid by another operator - be it private, or a properly run public one. You don't deduct the tax to work out the viability there.

ted44

Bus eireann. Is a test case!.
Why did the NTA not step in and cover the Dublin city area, ? With private operations,
When Dublin bus went out on strike.

AlmightyCushion

ted44 wrote: »

Bus eireann. Is a test case!.
Why did the NTA not step in and cover the Dublin city area, ? With private operations,
When Dublin bus went out on strike.

Bus eireann is withdrawing services from those routes altogether. That's why the NTA are stepping in.