Bust Éireann

Brendan Bendar

Bambi wrote: »

I hear the possibility of a Bus Eireann strike was one of the reasons that the atomic clock was put forward by a minute recently.

I mean if we're going to exaggerate, why not go large?

Well I was a bit over the top there Bambi, apologies

However I do believe that this dispute needs to be snuffed.

The taxpayer has taken way too many hits from the transport unions.

Time to put up the hand up and shout 'Stop'

Let's hope those batting for JQT have the chunkies to see this through for the benefit of everyone.

salonfire

end of the road wrote: »

nobody can rule out changes on behalf of anyone. the workers themselves decide whether the changes happen, nobody else.

Oh really? Last I heard management were going ahead and implementing cuts. The workers and unions were not even asked. They were kept informed through the media.

The largese of the semi state sector is falling apart due to competition from the private sector.

And people say privatisation is a bad thing. Looks like a good thing in this context.

Brendan Bendar

salonfire wrote: »

Oh really? Last I heard management were going ahead and implementing cuts. The workers and unions were not even asked. They were kept informed through the media.

The largese of the semi state sector is falling apart due to competition from the private sector.

And people say privatisation is a bad thing. Looks like a good thing in this context.

Workers and unions built a wall before anything was thrashed out it seems to me

"Let's sit around a table and work this out ,but we won't give an inch on conditions"

Strange that they expect anyone to 'sit down' with them on the basis of that.

That's how it seems to me.

Infini

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

"Let's sit around a table and work this out ,but we won't give an inch on conditions"

Strange that they expect anyone to 'sit down' with them on the basis of that.

That's how it seems to me.

Well you seem to completely disregard the fact that there was already pay cuts and reductions already over the last 10 years. Take in the feeling that the government and nta are using cheap labour to undermine their terns and conditions and a piss poor management and what do you expect. At some point they have to draw a line to prevent any further erosion of their jobs.

Noone denies the semi states could use some reform and some fresh management that try to work with their staff rather than push em around but this whole thing doesnt sit right the feeling is rather to try and force things through using the media at this point and it could backfire as when it comes to unilateral pay cuts its alot harder to try shame tactics to win and if anything it can harden resolve.

Brendan Bendar

Infini2 wrote: »

Well you seem to completely disregard the fact that there was already pay cuts and reductions already over the last 10 years. Take in the feeling that the government and nta are using cheap labour to undermine their terns and conditions and a piss poor management and what do you expect. At some point they have to draw a line to prevent any further erosion of their jobs.

Noone denies the semi states could use some reform and some fresh management that try to work with their staff rather than push em around but this whole thing doesnt sit right the feeling is rather to try and force things through using the media at this point and it could backfire as when it comes to unilateral pay cuts its alot harder to try shame tactics to win and if anything it can harden resolve.

No, not disregarding anything, just wondering why in the last period of time we had

Luas dispute

Dublin Bus dispute

Bus Eireann dispute.

Something doesn't seem to compute here.

end of the road

salonfire wrote: »

Oh really? Last I heard management were going ahead and implementing cuts. The workers and unions were not even asked. They were kept informed through the media.

The largese of the semi state sector is falling apart due to competition from the private sector.

And people say privatisation is a bad thing. Looks like a good thing in this context.

nope, this has nothing to do with privatization which is different to private operators operating on hand-picked routes, while bus eireann are expected to serve all the towns even on commercial routes because the others won't.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No, not disregarding anything, just wondering why in the last period of time we had

Luas dispute

Dublin Bus dispute

Bus Eireann dispute.

Something doesn't seem to compute here.

of course it computes. disputes between companies and workers happen from time to time.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

nope, this has nothing to do with privatization which is different to private operators operating on hand-picked routes, while bus eireann are expected to serve all the towns even on commercial routes because the others won't.

They are not forced to serve any unsustainable routes on commercial routes. They can drop the parts which are not sustainable by simply doing that and leaving the fall out to the NTA and saying it is not their problem, which it isn't the problem of Expressway which is what they should do but they don't, therefore it's a failure in commercial management.

Before you mention political pressure into BE not dropping unsustainable stops on a commercial route, JJ Kavanagh have had pressure for dropping stops and so have Aircoach with thousand signature petitions being sent to them. They just ignored them and got on with running their business in a viable way since that is how the commercial world works.

BE were too obsessed with being the good guys and in the commercial marketplace where competition is cut throat in any industry, if you sit there trying to please everyone, you have a route which is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

devnull

salonfire wrote: »

Oh really? Last I heard management were going ahead and implementing cuts. The workers and unions were not even asked. They were kept informed through the media.

How dare management manage their company.

Brendan Bendar

devnull wrote: »

How dare management manage their company.

Have to agree there.

At the end of the day it has to be worked out if the company is being run for the shareholder or the staff.

Saw some fairly dodgy sick leave stats there recently.

Looks like they a are out of kilter with industry norms.


Something not adding up here.

salonfire

devnull wrote: »

How dare management manage their company.

I know, that was my point.

I was referring to the poster's comment that the workers decide the changes.

Idbatterim

Ross only involvement should be the following line "going forward and permanently BE breaks even, every year " END OF! can stop us having these predictable discussion every few years...

end of the road

salonfire wrote: »

I know, that was my point.

I was referring to the poster's comment that the workers decide the changes.

yet that is not what was said. what was said is the workers decide whether to vote to accept the changes.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ross only involvement should be the following line "going forward and permanently BE breaks even, every year " END OF! can stop us having these predictable discussion every few years...

and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen. you forgot that bit funnily enough. anyway public services don't and won't break even in ireland, we haven't enough people for that to happen.

Brendan Bendar

end of the road wrote: »

yet that is not what was said. what was said is the workers decide whether to vote to accept the changes.



and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen. you forgot that bit funnily enough. anyway public services don't and won't break even in ireland, we haven't enough people for that to happen.

The cost base is the issue.

Looks like BE need to address this quam celerrime .

As quickly as possible.

Idbatterim

and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen. you forgot that bit funnily enough. anyway public services don't and won't break even in ireland, we haven't enough people for that to happen.

you think the government should constantly pay up, when the unions and workers open their mouth?

amcalester

end of the road wrote: »

and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen. you forgot that bit funnily enough. anyway public services don't and won't break even in ireland, we haven't enough people for that to happen.

But public services should break even within its own budget, something BE is not doing.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen..

Do you think that any increased funding to BE for the FTP users should come from taxpayers pockets or from a token contribution from the pockets of the people that actually use the FTP on those services?

Infini

n97 mini wrote: »

Do you think that any increased funding to BE for the FTP users should come from taxpayers pockets or from a token contribution from the pockets of the people that actually use the FTP on those services?

Long distance (ie cross county or intercity) should require a 1/4 fee for usage just local journeys should be free which is what a majority of fpt is.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Do you think that any increased funding to BE for the FTP users should come from taxpayers pockets or from a token contribution from the pockets of the people that actually use the FTP on those services?

it's not the job of free travel pass holders to pay a "tocan" anything. either people are entitled to free travel or they aren't. the costs of it should also be paid in full by government if they wish for it to remain.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

it's not the job of free travel pass holders to pay a "tocan" anything. either people are entitled to free travel or they aren't. by all means review who is entitled to the benefit but it either stays free to those who genuinely need it or it goes full stop. that won't be our call thankfully.

Not sure what a tocan is when I mentioned token? You didn't answer the question directly, but putting two and two together you seem to think any increased funding to BE for the FTP should be paid for by taxpayers and not users, yeah?

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Not sure what a tocan is when I mentioned token? You didn't answer the question directly, but putting two and two together you seem to think any increased funding to BE for the FTP should be paid for by taxpayers and not users, yeah?

they either have free travel or they don't. if they are entitled to free travel then it must remain free. it's not the job of the users on the scheme to be paying anything if the scheme is free travel for the user. so absolutely it's our job to pay.

flutered

n97 mini wrote: »

Not sure what a tocan is when I mentioned token? You didn't answer the question directly, but putting two and two together you seem to think any increased funding to BE for the FTP should be paid for by taxpayers and not users, yeah?

the unions are always looking for more, back in the day when things were locked, with no move advailable either way da bert look over and ensured the taxpayer shelled out, it is time that the cosseted unions were given a dose of reality, btw i was a shop steward in a previous life

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

a


they either have free travel or they don't. if they are entitled to free travel then it must remain free. it's not the job of the users on the scheme to be paying anything if the scheme is free travel for the user. so absolutely it's our job to pay.

Don't volunteer my money. I think you'll find a lot of taxpayers agree.

flutered

end of the road wrote: »

yet that is not what was said. what was said is the workers decide whether to vote to accept the changes.



and i will insure that the costs of running the service including the free travel scheme are paid in full to insure it will happen. you forgot that bit funnily enough. anyway public services don't and won't break even in ireland, we haven't enough people for that to happen.

which is why the unions should keep their hands out of the companys pockets

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Don't volunteer my money. I think you'll find a lot of taxpayers agree.

i have no need to, the government has done it for you.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

i have no need to, the government has done it for you.

Not quite yet. BE are still looking for more money, govt haven't said where it'll come from.

You should email them and let them know you'll willing to pay up.

Brendan Bendar

n97 mini wrote: »

Not quite yet. BE are still looking for more money, govt haven't said where it'll come from.

You should email them and let them know you'll willing to pay up.

Jobs on the line here, O'Leary might tone down the rhetoric fairly sharpish.

joeysoap

end of the road wrote: »

they either have free travel or they don't. if they are entitled to free travel then it must remain free. it's not the job of the users on the scheme to be paying anything if the scheme is free travel for the user. so absolutely it's our job to pay.

I have the FT. Occasionally use it. One of the lucky ones in that I have excellent road and rail connections. When I go to the races/dogs/theatre/football I use the concession if it's there. If hotels offer 'oldie' packages I would certainly consider them before booking (but they usually usually want you to stay for a day longer than I usually book) I think it's great, and why wouldn't I. So I'll repeat what I posted previously - I would be happy getting getting discounted fares, especially if it meant the continuation of services, both rail and road. maybe exempt rural services ( I know, what is rural? Nothing I use I would class as rural) including DB and Luas as they are effectively rural services in a city setting) my twopence worth.

Infini

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0130/848713-bus-eireann-document/

Interesting turn now. 3 plans presented since 2015 and all were rejected by the nta/gov side. Thus the issues have been allowed to fester for TWO years up until now. Makes Ross's position harder since it was his department that blocked these plans too thus making thing worse.

Brendan Bendar

joeysoap wrote: »

I have the FT. Occasionally use it. One of the lucky ones in that I have excellent road and rail connections. When I go to the races/dogs/theatre/football I use the concession if it's there. If hotels offer 'oldie' packages I would certainly consider them before booking (but they usually usually want you to stay for a day longer than I usually book) I think it's great, and why wouldn't I. So I'll repeat what I posted previously - I would be happy getting getting discounted fares, especially if it meant the continuation of services, both rail and road. maybe exempt rural services ( I know, what is rural? Nothing I use I would class as rural) including DB and Luas as they are effectively rural services in a city setting) my twopence worth.

Free travel is not the issue Joey, it's the cost base

Grandeeod

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Free travel is not the issue Joey, it's the cost base

Despite FT being put up as the elephant in the room, it is not a serious factor in any of the CIE group costs and never was. You are right. The cost base is and always was the issue. However FT will be the bone that some will be hell bent on chewing at.