Monitored alarm requirements and recommendations.

Tikka391

Hi there all.
I kind of jumped in on the thread about gun safe inspections yesterday, but my question seems to have got lost behind another argument.

So i'll ask again here.
Can anybody advise me on the requirements for getting monitored alarm in the house. With two shot guns and the rifle in the house the the fourth will be shotgun.
I would love to have top of the range bells and whistles fancy alarm system , but I just Don't have the budget, I appreciate there are definite minimum requirements that I have to meet,and even if it means having to save up for while I'll have to do it.
I have read what it says on the Garda website about monitored alarms, but I've heard different things about this also anecdotally, that you need the entire house done all doors and windows etc. But also heard that you have too have front and back doors, and only the room which the gun safe is in alarmed
So what are the minimum requirements and can anybody recommend a company in the north east that I can go to.

Many thanks.

clivej

I think it must be a GSM monitored by a third party system

J.R.

So what are the minimum requirements?

With three shotguns and one rifle (non-restricted) you need a safe, alarm & secure doors. It does not mention or require that the alarm installed is monitored.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/SI%20307%202009%20FIREARMS%20(SECURE%20ACCOMMODATION)%20REGULATIONS%202009.pdf

BattleCorp

My interpretation of the guidelines (the relevant section is listed in J.R.'s post above) is that you need some sort of alarm on the room where the gunsafe is located. It doesn't say anything about needing it to be monitored etc.

But you need to understand one thing. Those guidelines are just guidelines. Your Super can insist on you having increased security measures than those laid out in the guidelines. He is free to say you need an alarm that is monitored by a third party etc.

If I was you, I'd put a cheap alarm on the room with the gunsafe. Then you have complied with the minimum requirements. Apply for your new gun and see how things go. You might be ok and not have to do anything else, but then again the Super might insist on you upgrading to something better.

I know friends that just have the room alarmed and the Super was happy with it. I know friends that the Super insisted on everywhere being alarmed, even insisted on them having a PIR in their attic. Ridiculous stuff. But that's the system that we have.

Cass

^^^^^^^^

In a Nutshell.


You don't have to have a monitored alarm as the minimum standard is the place where the guns are stored be alarmed. That can be the room or the actual gun safe itself.

However as minimums it can change.


I have the full house alarm with CCTV, motion sensors, monitored alarms, floodlights outside linked to the alarm, etc, etc. These are way beyond any level of guidelines, but it's my choice due to the amount of firearms i have and where i live.

My alarm has a landline and GSM backup. It is monitored by a company for a monthly fee.

The entire set up, off the top of my head, ran me around €3,000. Not including the continuous monitoring. You really shouldn't need to go to that extreme.

Tikka391

BattleCorp wrote: »

My interpretation of the guidelines (the relevant section is listed in J.R.'s post above) is that you need some sort of alarm on the room where the gunsafe is located. It doesn't say anything about needing it to be monitored etc.

But you need to understand one thing. Those guidelines are just guidelines. Your Super can insist on you having increased security measures than those laid out in the guidelines. He is free to say you need an alarm that is monitored by a third party etc.

If I was you, I'd put a cheap alarm on the room with the gunsafe. Then you have complied with the minimum requirements. Apply for your new gun and see how things go. You might be ok and not have to do anything else, but then again the Super might insist on you upgrading to something better.

I know friends that just have the room alarmed and the Super was happy with it. I know friends that the Super insisted on everywhere being alarmed, even insisted on them having a PIR in their attic. Ridiculous stuff. But that's the system that we have.

Thanks for the advice.
Is the place mentioned in the above section the house or only the room. Everybody I talk to you seems to have a different opinion on this.
I understand what you mean by buying a cheap one first I hope this is sufficient but I'd like to get it right first time, but which right is right that seems to be the main problem, and for something as serious as fire and security it's about as clear as a pint of Guinness.
Thanks again.

PSXDupe

There is a lot of things to consider when getting the alarm. I use to install alarms a long time ago but since changed.

One of the best alarm panels on the market today is the HKC 1070. It's a hybrid panel which will work with both wired houses and also has the ability to use wireless sensors. This is good if your house is pre-wired, it also has the benefit of wireless which means you can stick a sensor pretty much anywhere in your home without running cables, perfect for inside your gun safe.

Wireless sensors are expensive enough so what I done was use a combination of both, use all the pre-wired cabling and then extend that capability with wireless sensors.

HKC have also brought out a wireless PIR which can actually take a photo also, this can also sit in the room where your safe is, so if the PIR gets triggered it start taking photos, even before anyone finds your safe.

Monitoring will cost you anywhere from €150-250 per year, if you go over GSM it will cost you an addition €7 per month for the sim which is installed in your alarm. All-in-all GSM monitoring will cost you €230-350 per year.

I have sent you the name a company who I use, he's a mate on mine and he know his stuff about alarms.

You really need to talk to a good alarm guy and get advice and costing, but realistically, if your house is not pre-wired you are looking at €50-70 per wireless sensor, probably €500-750 for the panel and bell boxes, sound bombs etc. Wired sensors, about half the cost of wireless.

I would recommend getting the best that you can afford.

HKC is an Irish company and their support and backup are second to none when I come to supporting their alarm panels.

gctest50

GSM/monitoring is pointless unless it has heartbeat/keepalive

Tikka391

PSXDupe wrote: »

There is a lot of things to consider when getting the alarm. I use to install alarms a long time ago but since changed.

One of the best alarm panels on the market today is the HKC 1070. It's a hybrid panel which will work with both wired houses and also has the ability to use wireless sensors. This is good if your house is pre-wired, it also has the benefit of wireless which means you can stick a sensor pretty much anywhere in your home without running cables, perfect for inside your gun safe.

Wireless sensors are expensive enough so what I done was use a combination of both, use all the pre-wired cabling and then extend that capability with wireless sensors.

HKC have also brought out a wireless PIR which can actually take a photo also, this can also sit in the room where your safe is, so if the PIR gets triggered it start taking photos, even before anyone finds your safe.

Monitoring will cost you anywhere from €150-250 per year, if you go over GSM it will cost you an addition €7 per month for the sim which is installed in your alarm. All-in-all GSM monitoring will cost you €230-350 per year.

I have sent you the name a company who I use, he's a mate on mine and he know his stuff about alarms.

You really need to talk to a good alarm guy and get advice and costing, but realistically, if you house is not pre-wired you are looking at €50-70 per wireless sensor, probably €500-750 for the panel and bell boxes, sound bombs etc. Wired sensors, about half the cost of wireless.

I would recommend getting the best that you can afford.

HKC is an Irish company and there support and backup are second to none when I come to supporting their alarm panels.

Many thanks for the great info.

PSXDupe

One other thing to keep in mind.

Your alarm must be installed to a qualify security professional who is registered. I know you see all these great offer in Woodies, B&Q etc for Yale alarms etc, but absolutely useless if you install it yourself or get a non registered guy to install it.

Another thing to keep in mind, by having a monitored alarm fitted to you home should save you 15-20% on you home insurance as most home insurers offer good discounts for having monitored alarms.

BattleCorp

Tikka391 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.
Is the place mentioned in the above section the house or only the room. Everybody I talk to you seems to have a different opinion on this.
I understand what you mean by buying a cheap one first I hope this is sufficient but I'd like to get it right first time, but which right is right that seems to be the main problem, and for something as serious as fire and security it's about as clear as a pint of Guinness.
Thanks again.

The problem is that the guidelines are open to a certain amount of interpretation. They don't say house or room. It says 'place'. Your guess is as good as mine but I'd say the room where the gunsafe is stored is a 'place' so an alarm on the room only MIGHT be sufficient. There's no way of knowing for sure unless you talk to your Super first. And if you do that, he/she will surely insist on the full works.

If money is an issue, I'd go with a cheap alarm in the same room as the gunsafe. If money isn't an issue, I'd go with Cass's setup, but with the addition of a moat full of pirhana and sharks with lasers attached to them. And landmines.

PSXDupe

I'm still on two minds about CCTV, it can sometimes draw attention. It highlights that you have something of value.
Saying that, it is on the list to add to the house.

Couple of the those armed robots from robocop outside at the entrance also.

Tikka391

BattleCorp wrote: »

The problem is that the guidelines are open to a certain amount of interpretation. They don't say house or room. It says 'place'. Your guess is as good as mine but I'd say the room where the gunsafe is stored is a 'place' so an alarm on the room only MIGHT be sufficient. There's no way of knowing for sure unless you talk to your Super first. And if you do that, he/she will surely insist on the full works.

If money is an issue, I'd go with a cheap alarm in the same room as the gunsafe. If money isn't an issue, I'd go with Cass's setup, but with the addition of a moat full of pirhana and sharks with lasers attached to them. And landmines.

Who needs landmines, if only the bad guys knew my misses but she won't sit in the room watching the safe all day.

BattleCorp

A huge billboard of me in a mankini on the front fence.

Aint nobody going to come near the house after seeing that. They'll be reaching for the eye-bleach.

PSXDupe

gctest50 wrote: »

GSM/monitoring is pointless unless it has heartbeat/keepalive

HKC 1070 with the GSM-SC module has heartbeat functionality and jam detection

Also have an app for you phone which allows you to take full control of your alarm system and you app can be setup to report on activation/deactivation of the alarm etc.

Boaty

Ask the county crime prevention officer for advice, if you meet the cpos standards the super will be fine.

Cass

PSXDupe wrote: »

I'm still on two minds about CCTV, it can sometimes draw attention. It highlights that you have something of value.
Saying that, it is on the list to add to the house.

Any alarm could signify the same.

In my area, fairly rural, i've the only house in the area with an alarm. The cameras are small and well hidden away. Even the CPO on his last visit never noticed them until i pointed them out.

The other side of the coin being if a person looking to break in sees my house with alarm, lights, and cameras then looks to any of my neighbours with no alarm, no lights, no cameras, etc. Which one would you go for?

At the end of the day they are only deterrents.

Couple of the those armed robots from robocop outside at the entrance also.

ED-209. Giving their track record they may be liable to shoot the home owner.

clivej

My mistake monitored alarm only with restricted or more than 6 firearms

Tikka391

Thanks lads for advice guys

Boaty

If your having any worry about your security, give your CPO a call , their numbers on are the Garda website. They do firearms calls daily so don't have any hesitation