Drynam Hall - New Phase

lapua20grain

martyfr wrote: »

Hello, I've been having a read of some of the comments about Muileann, and the earlier fears that the development was being built for social purposes. By this stage I'm fairly certain the estate is being built purely for people seeking to buy a home. I do have a question about the existing apartments/duplex homes currently on Drynam Ave; can anyone tell me if these are all social homes or not? And for any existing members who currently live in Drynam Hall; can you tell me if you think this is a good area to raise a young family. Many thanks.

It's a 50/50 mix of private ownership and social housing, it is a very quiet area with a good school across the bridge in Holywell and a local Tesco.

Lazyexcuse

Buyer beware - is anybody buying in Muileann and are you aware these are leasehold properties meaning you never own the land on which you've paid your hard earned cash on a mortgage.

I've done some research on leaseholds and its quite scary whats been going on in the uk. Ground rents introduced at a nominal rate so they are slipped in under the radar and then unbeknowns to the house owner their freehold is sold to an investment fund (vulture fund) and only available to the unsuspecting house owner at extortionate rate of many 10's of thousands.
See link below..

Why is this throwback from colonial days still permitted in Ireland. Why are agents only divulging this information to perspective buyers at contract stage when the emotional bond between the property and buyer is established. Seems like subterfuge to me.

Google this new-builds-house-buyers-leasehold-property-trap


Would appreciate peoples views on this particularly if you have reserved a property in Muileann

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

Buyer beware - is anybody buying in Muileann and are you aware these are leasehold properties meaning you never own the land on which you've paid your hard earned cash on a mortgage.

I've done some research on leaseholds and its quite scary whats been going on in the uk. Ground rents introduced at a nominal rate so they are slipped in under the radar and then unbeknowns to the house owner their freehold is sold to an investment fund (vulture fund) and only available to the unsuspecting house owner at extortionate rate of many 10's of thousands.
See link below..

Why is this throwback from colonial days still permitted in Ireland. Why are agents only divulging this information to perspective buyers at contract stage when the emotional bond between the property and buyer is established. Seems like subterfuge to me.

Google this new-builds-house-buyers-leasehold-property-trap


Would appreciate peoples views on this particularly if you have reserved a property in Muileann

The law on leasehold is quite different between here and the UK. Is it a 900 year leasehold?
Don't Google something and go by a UK report if you are in Ireland.

Dizzyblonde

@ Lazyexcuse - as you've been advised in the other forums you've posted this in, take the advice of a solicitor if the matter is of concern to you.

Lazyexcuse

As far as I'm aware its a 99 year lease. Muileann is Owned by a UK investment company.

It is very difficult to obtain a mortgage on leasehold of less than 70yrs so the cost of extending the lease falls on the seller in the not so distant future if they wish to move on.

My point is unlike other local developments Parkside and Miller's Glen which are sold freehold the Muileann estate is not being sold with full disclosure of the leasehold status leaving prospective buyers a very small window to understand the ramifications of same.

I too would strongly advise prospective buyers to review this particular contract as i believe it will leave buyers in a leasehold trap.

Incidentally these concerns do not relate to legacy leasehold which are relatively easy to buy out. Muileann leasehold is potentially a modern day mine field for unsuspecting buyers.

I'm advising extreme caution.

Graham

I can't help thing you're being paranoid based on a limited understanding of what may have happened in the U.K.

Have you spotted something in this particular development that every solicitor acting on behalf of purchasers has missed?

Lazyexcuse

Although most units in phase 1 were sold mid June, contracts were only issued this week.
I have no doubt buyers solicitors will be aware of the leasehold title (now), but nobody would have been advised of this prior to the contracts landing as the agents were not forthcoming on this minor detail.

The dark side of leasehold is set them low and sell them high. Nobody would question a 100e ground rent for the leasehold disguised as part of an overall service charge. If Irish statute prohibits this gouging, then Great, but this is Ireland and not called rip off Ireland for nothing.

The Leasehold trap was real in the UK forcing the UK government to abolish leasehold residential estates, (with the exception of apartments which have protections in place).

I would urge potential buyers to educate themselves on this issue (thru their solicitor) and ask all the relevant questions they would have otherwise taken for granted. Leasehold can not be simply ignored as a nominal charge for ground rent.

UK Investors have a vested interest in this land otherwise they would be selling as freehold. Granted these concerns may not affect current buyers - 99 years we'll be dead, right?, but could have implications for children inheriting the property.

Lazyexcuse

Graham, a friend of mine who was rather paranoid (in my view) would often say Paranoia is the height of awareness:-)

This Company who are selling Leaseholds in Ireland (Muileann) and looking for market share are not a charity. The are about Money

Pan-European real estate manager, Ardstone Capital, has beaten its target and announced the first closing of Ardstone Residential Partners, a fund targeting residential development in Ireland, with a clear focus on house-building in Dublin’s commuter belt. Having easily broken their first close target from four investors, they are well placed to quickly secure the remaining equity commitments to reach their €200 million hard cap target.

Ardstone Residential Partners (ARP) is Ardstone’s third fund since 2013. With Ireland’s strong GDP growth and the chronic residential supply shortage, investors are viewing Ardstone’s strategy as very astute. ARP’s mandate is to generate a 15% triple net annual return to investors. It is targeting zoned and planned residential land, with the Ardstone platform overseeing the house building and sales process. This new strategy marks Ardstone’s third very specific theme since 2012, having successfully partnered with CBRE GIP for AROF, a UK Regional office strategy and again for Ardstone Value Partners, a Dublin office and retail value-add strategy. The strategy will be overseen by Steve Cassidy, a recognised industry leader in Ireland, who joined Ardstone 18 months ago. Steve previously ran the Savills development land department for 15 years.

Donal O’Neill, co-founder of Ardstone said, “We are very pleased to have completed a successful first closing with four very high quality investors, two Irish and two European, for Ardstone Residential Partners, our Irish house-building strategy. We have completed our first two investments and together with the others in due diligence will ensure ARP gets appropriate exposure to the sector and we can start delivering houses into the under-supplied market quickly.

Graham

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

Graham, a friend of mine who was rather paranoid (in my view) would often say Paranoia is the height of awareness:-)

I wouldn't describe being unsure of the term of the lease or vague fascination with unrelated activity in a different legal jurisdiction as particularly relevant or aware.

Your post is light on fact and heavy on scaremongering. As were the other 2 exact same posts you submitted in other threads.

Lazyexcuse

Not scaremongering Graham and apologies if the content fails to meet a standard for your approval.

As for the 2 exact same posts, now you are sounding paranoid. There is nothing Machiavellian going on with that, I posted the initial post on a new thread and then came across two threads on the Drynam subject so copied it in. One has since been removed.

There is no need for you to challenge my post simply for the sake of it. Its been posted in good faith to bring awareness of a potential issue to buyers of Muileann. Whether they benefit from the post or not, it is not for you to criticise its motives.

My understanding of 1978 act of the Irish Statute prohibited the creation of leases of private residential houses after the 16th May, 1978, so the fact that residential houses are being sold Leasehold is to be questioned. That is the only basis of my post, simply to make people aware not to scaremonger. Thanks

Graham

I am challenging the lack of facts, nothing else.

The fact you went looking for any mention of this specific development (and no other developments) admittedly does make me suspect your motives.

I'll ask again, what are you aware of that you think every solicitor for every purchaser has missed?

Lazyexcuse

For clarity I am a firsttime buyer. Muileann was shortlisted by me as was Parkside, Millers Glenn, Belltree Clongriffen, Ashfield - all north county Dublin new build estates where I would like to live. Sounding less suspect??

I was disappointed to learn the agents selling Muileann were extremely evasive & secretive regarding their leasehold status, which I discovered only after due diligence. I am simply encouraging others in my position to make the same enquiries.

Regarding other buyers solicitors I did acknowledge earlier that they would be aware of the leasehold status now BUT buyers should not assume ah 99 years, I'll be dead no worries.

Banks such as AIB will not mortgage a property with less that 70yrs on the lease. Buyers need to be aware of this. Buyers need to be aware of the cost of buying out a leasehold, whether its even possible, or the costs of extending a leasehold if purchase is not an option

mickmmc

I noticed the footpaths are not wheelchair compliant. Maybe I am going blind?

Surely the builders/foremen should have noticed that?

Graham

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

For clarity I am a firsttime buyer. Muileann was shortlisted by me as was Parkside, Millers Glenn, Belltree Clongriffen, Ashfield - all north county Dublin new build estates where I would like to live. Sounding less suspect??

You should go and talk to your solicitor and find out the reality of leasehold rather than frightening yourself unnecessarily.

Not being smart but you're worrying yourself (and others) unnecessarily.

Lazyexcuse

I prefer to believe that information empowers people it does not frighten them

The concerns I have raised will empower them to ask the relevant questions about the development if they are perspective buyers

I have a solicitor looking into the leasehold titles on the houses and will post that info too when available

Lazyexcuse

mickmmc wrote: »

I noticed the footpaths are not wheelchair compliant. Maybe I am going blind?

Surely the builders/foremen should have noticed that?

Last time I looked at the estate they only had footpaths at the entrance near the show houses. Still very much a building site beyond that.

What are the wheelchair requirements?

tobsey

Also it looks like the road surface will be raised at least an inch before they finished so that will make the kerb height shorter

yeahbut

I don't see the posts above as scaremongering whatsoever. If this leasehold is true I hope buyers solicitors fully inform them.

Pinto123

I checked this out with our solicitor and these properties are freehold? I think it even says on the plans we got through.

We got the inventory and going through that. Anyone notice anything obvious missing?
Indication is that the houses should be ready late September/early October?

Lazyexcuse

These appear to be freehold in title BUT have a number of conditions attached such as

1. Your parking spaces are allocated but may be moved
2. Not permitted to make changes to your property (windows doors extention etc)
3. No satallite dishes
4. Obtain permission for garden sheds/buildings
5. Pay a service charge
6. No changes permitted to land around property

A truly freehold property should be yours to do with as you please particularly the building itself and the lands within your purchased boundary.

It seems daft to me that houses in a multi unit development are slapped with the same restrictions and constraints as apartments. This proved to be a major gripe with residents of boroimhe. Houses are freehold apartments are lease hold and should be treated accordingly. This one size fits all approach for both houses that are meant to be freehold and apartments that are leasehold just doesn't work.

Graham

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

These appear to be freehold in title BUT have a number of conditions attached such as

1. Your parking spaces are allocated but may be moved
2. Not permitted to make changes to your property (windows doors extention etc)
3. No satallite dishes
4. Obtain permission for garden sheds/buildings
5. Pay a service charge
6. No changes permitted to land around property

A truly freehold property should be yours to do with as you please particularly the building itself and the lands within your purchased boundary.

It seems daft to me that houses in a multi unit development are slapped with the same restrictions and constraints as apartments. This proved to be a major gripe with residents of boroimhe. Houses are freehold apartments are lease hold and should be treated accordingly. This one size fits all approach for both houses that are meant to be freehold and apartments that are leasehold just doesn't work.

What a bunch of waffle.

Out of interest, what was the 'due diligence' you performed that brought about this apparently unfounded trashing of the development and its developers?

Lazyexcuse

Graham, Graham, Graham, 2 things you are struggling to understand so I'll reiterate what Ive already said especially for your benefit.

1. You do not need to challenge my post just for the sake of it. but if you must please be intelligent and try to use bigger more descriptive words than "waffle". It will give the reader so much more to work with.

2. I am not thrashing the development or it developers. Again as I have already said I'm simply advising caution to buyers based on the evasive manner in which these property's have been marketed.

It was the Agents who reluctantly advised me that they were leasehold 2 months after release and that they carried a ground rent. This gave rise to my initial concerns and cautions. OK so agents marketing the estate provided me with mis information which I have been verifying with solicitors.

My solicitor has provided me with the above info which you deem waffle. He'll be so disappointed to learn you don't approve. As I stated, in my opinion a purchaser of a freehold property should be free to do whatever with their house and garden. This is not the case in Muileann. . . . . . or do you know different??

Graham

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

Graham, Graham, Graham, 2 things you are struggling to understand so I'll reiterate what Ive already said especially for your benefit.
<Megasnip>

That's a rather long winded way of saying your opinion and facts about the development were wrong.

At least the reality came out in the end.

Lazyexcuse

No Graham its a very concise way of informing everyone that the selling agents declared that these were leasehold

My solicitor has advised they are freehold (as did another poster) but there is a significant schedule attached to the transfers of these sold lands.

So my advice and caution still stands for buyers as they have much to consider as these "Houses" carry the same contrainsts as "apartments"

Graham

Thank you for confirming they're not leasehold as you categorically stated in several threads.

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

Buyer beware - is anybody buying in Muileann and are you aware these are leasehold properties

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

As far as I'm aware its a 99 year lease. Muileann is Owned by a UK investment company.
I'm advising extreme caution.

Lazyexcuse wrote: »

I have no doubt buyers solicitors will be aware of the leasehold title

I'll bow out now you've grudgingly conceded the point.

Lazyexcuse

Thanks for your contribution, as you bow out I'm reminded of the adage that every cloud has a silver lining.


Incidentally my posts were to caution prospective buyers of the status of these properties. As recently as yesterday property management division of the selling agent is still claiming these to be leasehold with ground rent.

Whilst graham did not find the discussion useful I hope some have found it helpful.

KingInTheNorth

Hey Guys,

I have created a group for all the new Muileann Residents.

Please join the group on facebook for discussions, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/737145683136267/