Owning a high mileage leaf

650Ginge

650Ginge wrote: »

I went with SVE with 30kw and 6.6kw charger total price was €31k something.

You could well be right that it would make a cheap secondhand car to myself at that point.

That does bup it up a lot. 680 is a lot, really, I'd rather put that towards a newer more efficient Ioniq, or better yet, wait to see what is available for 2018.

I'd buy a 2nd hand 30 Kwh if you can't wait, though there won't be that many because they were only available since last March. You might have a better chance in the U.K.

cros13

I think the Leaf is probably the best car for you. Have you considered a 2nd hand SVE 24kWh or 30kWh?

Profligate as I am, I still started out by dipping my toe in the EV waters with an ex-demo 24kWh SVE.

isnottheword

@650Ginge: On the one hand, I'd suggest that you try and get a hold of a Leaf over a 48 hour test drive. On the other, I note that you are tired of buying 2nd hand - so that means a struggle in the decision making seeing as you don't believe there is value to be had at that point.

I don't think Mad Lad is too far off the mark IF you can live with a 2nd hand(?) although I do believe it is too early to buy one without the bulk of the depreciation having been shed.

I'd ask you if a 24kW would work for you but it seems that you make infrequent (yet ongoing) extended journeys. Would you have the patience and time to have to charge on the go? Perhaps this is a reason a hybrid would suit you better? (and someone else here would have to chip in with advice as I have no experience driving one).

zilog_jones

@650Ginge: Would the Leaf even be suitable for the dogs? I don't have a Leaf myself but have looked around a few - the boot space seems quite awkward as there are significant protrusions from the suspension, and when the seats are folded down there's a big step up between the boot floor and seats - some pictures here (although that example has a subwoofer stuck in there too): http://www.whatcar.com/nissan/leaf/hatchback/review/space-practicality/

Actual boot volume is slightly larger in the Leaf than the Ioniq, but dogs are not gelatinous blobs

Maybe a newer Prius is worth considering, if your priority is getting away from diesels? The new model would be a big step up assuming you previously had a 2nd gen (2004-09). There's a plug-in version coming this year (EV range around 35-40 km), but again boot space is a bit crap (140 litres less than the standard hybrid), and no word if Toyota Ireland will bother selling it. Auris Hybrid Touring Sports is certainly the best hybrid for boot space and practicality, but smaller up front.

There's absolutely no signs of a decent sized Ev on the horizon.

They're mostly small hatches so that they can claim higher efficiency and range.

DrPhilG

zilog_jones wrote: »

@650Ginge: Would the Leaf even be suitable for the dogs?

Depends on the dogs. I have a Rottweiler and a Jack Russell and they are happy to lie down in the boot with the shelf still in and just relax. That said the longest journey they ever go is about 20 miles.

With the shelf off they would have plenty of space.

Ps I also have a DIY false bottom built into the boot which houses all my cables and a spare wheel and the dogs still fit fine.

zilog_jones

650Ginge said he has two red setters, which would be more like the size of a Rottweiler than Jack Russell - you think that would still work?

DrPhilG

zilog_jones wrote: »

650Ginge said he has two red setters, which would be more like the size of a Rottweiler than Jack Russell - you think that would still work?

Don't see why not. As I say my boot floor is raised by the depth of a space saver tyre and my dogs are still comfortable. With the shelf out I see no reason that 2 setters couldn't sit in there looking out.

If 650Ginge is anywhere near Donegal he or she is welcome to let the dogs have a test drive!

650Ginge

Looking at the leaf there is a high enough lip on the boot and a big drop on the other side. I don't think that will do.

I have looked at a current model Prius today. Gone is the flat low lip boot to the Gen 2 and 3. :-)

Car sales men hate me.

Having considered the sums I am not going to go with a new car, I can't justify it. I am just too handy with a spreadsheet, its a curse. Maybe a Gen 3 Prius, maybe even plug in but not done much research on the Plug-in.

Just did a 190 mile trip to Wicklow today in the 520 it was quite a nice place to be, once warmed up and moving.

But interesting they now have Tesla "Destination Chargers" at the Brooklodge hotel. But if I had a Model S I probably would not have needed it anyway. :-)

isnottheword

650Ginge wrote: »

Having considered the sums I am not going to go with a new car, I can't justify it. I am just too handy with a spreadsheet, its a curse.

I wouldn't say it's a curse at all - I'd imagine it's served you well.


Let us know what you end up driving.

650Ginge

isnottheword wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's a curse at all - I'd imagine it's served you well.


Let us know what you end up driving.

I will but this may take some time, I not prone to quick decisions.

Thanks for all the pointers, and apologies for taking over the thread OP.

This EV forum is a whole lot friendlier than the main motors forum.

cros13

650Ginge wrote: »

Maybe a Gen 3 Prius, maybe even plug in but not done much research on the Plug-in.

Prius Plug-in isn't worth it... tiny tiny tiny battery (sorry zilog...I know it works for you but for the price it just feels like the value is not there).

Something definitely worth considering if you need the extra room would be a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Plenty coming off lease in the UK pushing down prices. ~50-60km (maybe even 80km if you take it easy) on the battery and you have the combustion engine for your infrequent longer journeys.

zilog_jones

cros13 wrote: »

Prius Plug-in isn't worth it... tiny tiny tiny battery (sorry zilog...I know it works for you but for the price it just feels like the value is not there).

The price? They were ridiculous new, but used there's negligible difference between one and a standard high-spec Prius in the UK - then you'll save a few hundred off VRT. 4.4 kWh battery is still better than 1.3 If you're looking at the Prius specifically it's certainly worth considering. Cheaper than an Outlander too (but obviously smaller).

Regarding boot space: You lose the spare wheel well and maybe 5-10 litres over the normal Prius.

BoatMad

650Ginge wrote: »

So.....

I had a look at the Ioniq today, well it is a Hyundai, and it still has the horrible interior that all Hynundai have.....just a big black plastic dash, improves a lot with it is powered up, which is the way you will be looking at it most of the time.

Anyway thats my Hyundai hang up out of the way....also the boot isn't big enough for my doggies either.

So I went on the Nissan site to see how much a leaf would be on PCP. As I personally would only want to lease one and maybe walk away.

€680pm over three years.....yikes.....turns out they GMFV is €5075 and €5000 deposit . So it would cost approx €8160 a year in repayments and if you divide out the deposit too, €998 a month, or €11986 a year for three years. Nearly €36k in total....and you still owe them the €5075 if you don't walk away.

How can anyone make the maths on these work? I want one but they have to be some way affordable. Thats about 171428 miles in fuel in my current car :-).

Its now very difficult to justify a new Leaf , unless paradoxically you are going to do very high mileage, The GMFV has more then halved over the last 2-3 years, which means in fact that you'd might as well buy it on HP, cause thats all that PCP is.

personally I think Nissan will kill new Leaf sales, I notice Dec was the first month with zero new Leaf sales (yet many 2nd hand sales ) , an ominous sign

my own view is that the Leaf will become a 2nd hand import product for the foreseeable future, especially if Nissan , bring out a mediocre upgrade ( which now seems likely ) . To be honest , it almost looks like Nissan is abandoning the BEV concept for the Hybrid. ( and this wouldn't surprise me )

oh well, the issues around early adoption

zilog_jones

I think the current Sterling situation and unknown future of importing from the UK post-Brexit is seriously inflating the used import market. 22 used Leafs were imported in December 2016 (189 total last year).

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I think the current Sterling situation and unknown future of importing from the UK post-Brexit is seriously inflating the used import market. 22 used Leafs were imported in December 2016 (189 total last year).

yes but Nissan are in the process of destroying their own new car EV market , the car is virtually unpurchasable at present

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The GMFV has more then halved over the last 2-3 years, which means in fact that you'd might as well buy it on HP, cause thats all that PCP is.

How do you make that out ? 5,500 GFMV ? you honestly think a leaf will be worth that little in 3 years ? no I don't either so there is obviously going to be a lot more value in the car.

Nissan are playing it safe by making you pay more PM but with a much greater chance of getting it back at the end + more.

650Ginge

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you make that out ? 5,500 GFMV ? you honestly think a leaf will be worth that little in 3 years ? no I don't either so there is obviously going to be a lot more value in the car.

Nissan are playing it safe by making you pay more PM but with a much greater chance of getting it back at the end + more.

There has been a couple on Donedeal for 6700 and 7800, not far away from 5000.

If Nissan are doing this it is because they know that they can't sell them second hand at anything higher. No?

Anyway you have to be crazy to go with that sort deal?

Firblog

When I was doing up my figures last year, it went along these lines

Previous car cost new €22,500
Value after 5 years €7,500
Depreciation per year €3000
Fuel Cost per year €1600

Cost Per Year €4,600


Leaf Cost New €24,300 (152 SVE Ex Demo 1000km)
Value After 5 Years €0
Depreciation per year€4,860
Fuel Cost Per Year €0 (Public Charging& Charge point in OH's House )

Cost Per Year €4,860

I know these figures are very basic, and I'm not accounting for some obvious costs/benefits...

After a year I'm thinking I'll definitely keep this car for a min of 5 years, maybe as long as 10 to get the best value out of it. I don't do big journeys, or high milage - 19000km this year - and don't abuse it, so it should last. At the end of that time when I need a car, I'll hire a self driving one to come courier me to my destination, it'll be the only way to travel then; we'll be looking back wondering what was the sense in buying a car that cost so much to run every year when driverless taxi's take us everywhere for buttons :pac:

650Ginge

650Ginge wrote: »

There has been a couple on Donedeal for 6700 and 7800, not far away from 5000.

Hmm, 2011-2012 and a quote
"This car is priced very low deliberately to sell quickly"

Hardly reflective of the price after a "3 year" pcp then !

650Ginge wrote: »

If Nissan are doing this it is because they know that they can't sell them second hand at anything higher. No?

Not really no, Nissan are being very cautious that the buyer takes the risk and pays a higher monthly cost and if the car is worth more at the end of 3 years then they get it back and more if it's worth more.