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Celbridge Draft Area Plan - 3500+ new houses

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    #272
    brian_t
    Registered Users Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭brian_t


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Anyone know why Aldi is closed off yesterday and today? (Slightly off topic but this is the best general thread for the area)
    The Mulk wrote: »
    A store revamp as far as I know. Not sure when its back open.
    I passed by yesterday and I thought their closed off barrier looked very unprofessional.

    Cars were turning in and had to turn around and drive back out into traffic.

    I assumed it was a short notice 'unplanned' closure.


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    #273
    BattlingCheese
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭BattlingCheese


    Closed for the week for renovations and was documented in store for a while now.


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    #274
    Hazelhatch Greenway
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Hazelhatch Greenway


    Any mention of Celbridge / Hazelhatch in today's planning announcement?


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    #275
    Kfagan10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Kfagan10


    Electrification of the line as far as Celbridge proposed.

    This is behind extension of the DART to firstly Balbriggan and then Maynooth.


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    #276
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I saw something on Celbridge Info Facebook group about the Donaghcumper development being shelved after a court decision.

    Does any of this have an impact on plans to build the new secondary school on that road?


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    #277
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I saw something on Celbridge Info Facebook group about the Donaghcumper development being shelved after a court decision.

    Does any of this have an impact on plans to build the new secondary school on that road?[/quot has pp in for more pref
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I saw something on Celbridge Info Facebook group about the Donaghcumper development being shelved after a court decision.

    Does any of this have an impact on plans to build the new secondary school on that road?
    ccs has pp in for new prefabs and ancillary works so looks like it isn't going anywhere anytime soon


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    #278
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh dear...

    I've just seen that. They don't have permission yet (not until July) but presumably it will get the green light.

    They are looking for four classrooms. Doesn't seem like it would last them very long given that they take in a new year group every September. Plus they will be offering their first TY this year and then will have to cater to Leaving Cert cycle students - meaning (you'd hope) more subject choices.

    Still, bit depressing to think there is no hope in sight.


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    #279
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh dear...

    I've just seen that. They don't have permission yet (not until July) but presumably it will get the green light.

    They are looking for four classrooms. Doesn't seem like it would last them very long given that they take in a new year group every September. Plus they will be offering their first TY this year and then will have to cater to Leaving Cert cycle students - meaning (you'd hope) more subject choices.

    Still, bit depressing to think there is no hope in sight.
    TY was made compulsory due to lack of space. Not good sign for any school


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    #280
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't have kids in the school (yet) but I imagine it would have been a bit of a nightmare if, say, eight of them had opted out of TY. How could the school offer a range of LC subjects?

    Anyway, do you reckon the broader objections to the Donaghcumper plan has scuppered the development of new schools in that area?

    Would be a real shame. If not there, then where? The town definitely needs secondary school places in the years ahead - and that's before they build thousands of houses.


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    #281
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't have kids in the school (yet) but I imagine it would have been a bit of a nightmare if, say, eight of them had opted out of TY. How could the school offer a range of LC subjects?

    Anyway, do you reckon the broader objections to the Donaghcumper plan has scuppered the development of new schools in that area?

    Would be a real shame. If not there, then where? The town definitely needs secondary school places in the years ahead - and that's before they build thousands of houses.
    The town actually needs 2 new secondary schools but the debacle with this one has scuppered any chance of a 2nd. The plan is still for St Patrick's and ccs to co locate of an educational campus between the cemetery and the brewery but id say you are talking 3-5 yrs


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    #282
    scheister
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭scheister


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    The town actually needs 2 new secondary schools but the debacle with this one has scuppered any chance of a 2nd. The plan is still for St Patrick's and ccs to co locate of an educational campus between the cemetery and the brewery but id say you are talking 3-5 yrs

    was this site opposite freedom travel not seen as a backup site. The dream is still to have them around Hazelhatch?


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    #283
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    scheister wrote: »
    judeboy101 wrote: »
    The town actually needs 2 new secondary schools but the debacle with this one has scuppered any chance of a 2nd. The plan is still for St Patrick's and ccs to co locate of an educational campus between the cemetery and the brewery but id say you are talking 3-5 yrs

    was this site opposite freedom travel not seen as a backup site. The dream is still to have them around Hazelhatch?
    Only ever sites were beside St Patrick's on the flood plain or beside the cemetery they never planned on having it across from supervalu . They will never get through planning for St patrickicls due to expense to drain and redirect the water. They might put it at simmonstown seeing as that is where the bulk of houses are going(at the moment)


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    #284
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Can anyone in the know let me what the house building situation is in celbridge now. I recently moved into crodaun but would be looking to move again to a new build in 5 years ish. Where are the houses gonna go, and when are they gonna start. Thanks all


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    #285
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Here are the approved areas that can/will be developed in the next 5 years


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    #286
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Here are the approved areas that can/will be developed in the next 5 years

    You're a star thanks


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    #287
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Looks like they finally managed to push through planning on the waste ground behind beaufield vets. 6 houses to be built on the ground where the garage/yard is currently.


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    #288
    Bo bridges
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Bo bridges


    I am new to the area.
    I live near this and awful decision to grant planning permission for 6 units.
    Near the bridge junction traffic going to be horrendous.
    New Bridge first before any new builds.


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    #289
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Bo bridges wrote: »
    I am new to the area.
    I live near this and awful decision to grant planning permission for 6 units.
    Near the bridge junction traffic going to be horrendous.
    New Bridge first before any new builds.

    This must be the 3rd or even 4th time that the planning went in. I am interested to see how the houses will sell... It is a bit of waste land in there, they will need to tidy it up a lot. You will also have people visiting the vets parking in front of your house each day.


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    #290
    Bo bridges
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Bo bridges


    The planning permission this time for the 6 units was dodgy.
    First they sent in a incomplete application then sneakily sent another in its place trying to fool the a known objector.
    Then the objector was tipped off it slowed down the planning application process.
    The roads department point blank refused to grant permission and yet still got planning permission granted overall.
    Suppose they must know Damien then sure he is on a roll at the moment ask him for help you know he get you a win.


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    #291
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Some big chunks of land for sale now, zoned residential. It's happening!

    You've probably seen the sign for the 11 acres on the Shackelton Road and then there's another 5.5 acres at the back of Oldtown Mill.

    Meanwhile, traffic seems pretty bad and it's not even winter, while there's general unease about the new Bus Connects plan. Not a great combo!


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    #292
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Some big chunks of land for sale now, zoned residential. It's happening!

    You've probably seen the sign for the 11 acres on the Shackelton Road and then there's another 5.5 acres at the back of Oldtown Mill.

    Meanwhile, traffic seems pretty bad and it's not even winter, while there's general unease about the new Bus Connects plan. Not a great combo!

    Wonder why other parcel isn't up for sale seems strange.


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    #293
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Some big chunks of land for sale now, zoned residential. It's happening!

    You've probably seen the sign for the 11 acres on the Shackelton Road and then there's another 5.5 acres at the back of Oldtown Mill.

    Meanwhile, traffic seems pretty bad and it's not even winter, while there's general unease about the new Bus Connects plan. Not a great combo!
    Is there any chance that building a bypass (and new bridge) would be part of any planning permission for those to go ahead?


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    #294
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I suppose they were rezoned as part of the latest Local Area Plan but am not sure the planning permission would be conditional on a bridge/link road/schools and other infrastructure.

    The country needs houses so some building is inevitable but it does feel like north Kildare is taking up a lot of the new housing stock - but is already seized up at peak times.


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    #295
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    Is there any chance that building a bypass (and new bridge) would be part of any planning permission for those to go ahead?

    No.

    The two plots of land listed above are not conditional on any new link road or extra bridge. Originally more land had been zoned with these two but that was dependant on a link road being built from the crossroads on Shackelton to Apple green roundabout. Oldtown mill residents objected to this and the road will now not be built. The result is that no link road will be built and only ~50% of the planned house in that area will be built.

    The only land that is dependant on an extra bridge being built is a large stretch on the Ardclough road with a few thousand houses planned.


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    #296
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    This is the total patch of land to be developed on Shackelton. The LAP lists it as having a total capacity of 411 units, it will also include a new primary school.

    Based on the same density the 5.5acres behind Oldtown should be about 70 extra houses.


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    #297
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If memory serves me correctly, there are ~77 units at Castlewellan beside Aldi - just to give some idea of scale. 410 is a big development. 410 + 70 = nearly 500 homes leading onto Shackelton/Old Town road.

    What's the average number of people per household? Average number of cars per household?

    Would we be talking 700 to 800 cars? Maybe 3,000 people? We'll soon have more people that county Kilkenny (26,500) - which has a city in it!


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    #298
    ZV Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    mloc123 wrote: »
    No.

    The two plots of land listed above are not conditional on any new link road or extra bridge. Originally more land had been zoned with these two but that was dependant on a link road being built from the crossroads on Shackelton to Apple green roundabout. Oldtown mill residents objected to this and the road will now not be built. The result is that no link road will be built and only ~50% of the planned house in that area will be built.

    The only land that is dependant on an extra bridge being built is a large stretch on the Ardclough road with a few thousand houses planned.

    Oldtown Mill residents did not object to the link road. Quite the opposite - they actually sought assurances that the link road would be built before any additonal houses were built. It's difficult to get out of OTM at peak times, so a ring road would divert Clane traffic away from there altogether (assuming they were heading for the M4/Maynooth)

    Residents objected to a proposal to create a second entrance to OTM at the back of the development (where the new houses are to be built). While it would have eased traffic at the front of the estate, it would have created a through-road running right though the centre of OTM. In an estate full of young kids, that was a dangerous idea. People drive fast too fast on that spine road already (there was a serious accident there last year).

    Residents also sought assurances that the new develoment at the back of OTM would not be integrated into OTM, but would in fact be a separate development with separate access to the new link road. This is because adding 70 houses to the existing OTM population would have created even more congestion at the entrance. It's just common sense.

    If the link road is not going ahead, then it looks any new houses at the back of OTM will be a new phase of OTM. This is madness. It will just add to congestion at the entrance to the estate.

    We all know that solving the housing crisis requires more homes to be built... but the infrastucture has to be there to support them. The roads around Celbridge are already congested. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the link road must be built before any more houses are built in the OTM/Shackleton Rd area. Especially with another school going in there.


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    #299
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Would we be talking 700 to 800 cars? Maybe 3,000 people? We'll soon have more people that county Kilkenny (26,500) - which has a city in it!


    Population of Kilkenny "city" is about 26k, and county is about 100k (don't have the exact figures to hand - I'm sure wikipeida would).



    If you're looking for a county that has a similar population, that would be Leitrim.


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    #300
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    ZV Yoda wrote: »
    The roads around Celbridge are already congested. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the link road must be built before any more houses are built in the OTM/Shackleton Rd area. Especially with another school going in there.

    In reality they are probably no worse than any other town of the same population around the country... for 2-3 hours each day. From 8-9am and from ~5-6/7pm.

    If the link road was built tomorrow it will just shift the traffic. The N4 is a bottleneck, so if you get cars to that point quicker... it just means the N4 will back up to Applegreen or further back. Building extra road capacity also encourages more people to drive.

    You are not stuck in traffic... you are traffic etc..


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    #301
    koheim
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭koheim


    ZV Yoda wrote: »
    mloc123 wrote: »
    No.

    The two plots of land listed above are not conditional on any new link road or extra bridge. Originally more land had been zoned with these two but that was dependant on a link road being built from the crossroads on Shackelton to Apple green roundabout. Oldtown mill residents objected to this and the road will now not be built. The result is that no link road will be built and only ~50% of the planned house in that area will be built.

    The only land that is dependant on an extra bridge being built is a large stretch on the Ardclough road with a few thousand houses planned.

    Oldtown Mill residents did not object to the link road. Quite the opposite - they actually sought assurances that the link road would be built before any additonal houses were built. It's difficult to get out of OTM at peak times, so a ring road would divert Clane traffic away from there altogether (assuming they were heading for the M4/Maynooth)

    Residents objected to a proposal to create a second entrance to OTM at the back of the development (where the new houses are to be built). While it would have eased traffic at the front of the estate, it would have created a through-road running right though the centre of OTM. In an estate full of young kids, that was a dangerous idea. People drive fast too fast on that spine road already (there was a serious accident there last year).

    Residents also sought assurances that the new develoment at the back of OTM would not be integrated into OTM, but would in fact be a separate development with separate access to the new link road. This is because adding 70 houses to the existing OTM population would have created even more congestion at the entrance. It's just common sense.

    If the link road is not going ahead, then it looks any new houses at the back of OTM will be a new phase of OTM. This is madness. It will just add to congestion at the entrance to the estate.

    We all know that solving the housing crisis requires more homes to be built... but the infrastucture has to be there to support them. The roads around Celbridge are already congested. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the link road must be built before any more houses are built in the OTM/Shackleton Rd area. Especially with another school going in there.
    People on Oldtown Mill needs a second exit desperatly, madness to have all traffic through one exit. I do not believe it will create  through road, that does not make any sense, why would people drive through an estate when oldtown road is parallell and much quicker...


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