Problems with being a non resident landlord

beaufoy

I have been renting out a property for a few years. I have had normal problems with tenants, but still prefer not to use agents. One of my tenants continually tried to trick me because he thought he was more clever. He also thought that I was frightened of him, so when we were deciding who should pay for the new couch which he claimed broke in half without mistreatment he stood over me. Anyway he left the apartment so I was left with the not too bad tenant and his new wife, and wrote them a new rental agreement. Now we come to the subject of this thread. Last august my not too bad tenant decided to take his wife to india for a few months and let the ex tenant I don't like take over the apartment, this was done without asking for or receiving permission from me, and I told my tenant never to sublet again without my permission. Of course not being resident in Ireland i cannot go to the apartment regularly to check who is living there. However, I will be there for a few weeks next July so I could do a few checks giving min notice whilst i am living in Ireland......any other suggestions will be welcome

Michael D Not Higgins

Since you don't want agents, you're going to have to rope a willing relative who lives nearby into it. You need someone to check up on the place, especially if they're messing you around.

silent_spark

An additional problem with not using an agent is finding a tenant willing to deduct withholding tax (as a non-resident landlord). Having a local person (a friend or relative maybe?) act as an agent would make this, and the carrying out of regular checks, much easier on you.

beaufoy

sorry I do not have relatives in Ireland

murphaph

beaufoy wrote: »

sorry I do not have relatives in Ireland

Who's handling the tax side of things if you have no agent?

the_syco

murphaph wrote: »

Who's handling the tax side of things if you have no agent?

The tenant. If they don't, they're the ones who'll get into trouble.

=-=

Get legal advice on evicting people not on the lease. Also evicting the other tenants for subletting without your permission.

Start with a clean slate, and unless you'll come home to vet people, consider getting an agent.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

The tenant. If they don't, they're the ones who'll get into trouble.

Don't ever ever allow a tenant that you don't trust to withhold tax on your behalf.

My experience is that Revenue are not strict on this rule, providing you are straight with them.

And yes, you really should use an agent. Its penny wise, pound foolish in your case.

beaufoy

This is strange because the people who have replied seem to be more interested in my tax status than they do in helping me to stop my tenant sub letting. However, said concern about tax has given me an idea. If I am correct irish tax rules state that rent paid is not tax deductible, but  rent received is tax deductible. Therefore if my tenant sub lets he is liable for tax on the income received.
ex......he pays me 800pcm not tax deductable
he receives 800,900, or a thousand per month on which he is liable to pay tax, so he has to charge the person he is renting to 1000 euro pcm in order to break even

Graham

beaufoy wrote: »

the people who have replied seem to be more interested in my tax status than they do in helping me to stop my tenant sub letting

I'm not sure what sort advice you were hoping for.

You're not around to do it.
You have no family/friends able to do it.
You don't want to pay an agent to do it.

I'm certainly not convinced the Irish tax system is the solution.

Carawaystick

the_syco wrote: »

The tenant. If they don't, they're the ones who'll get into trouble.

How can a tennant know their landlord's residence status? The revenue regularily make mistakes, and it's their job.

Graham

Carawaystick wrote: »

How can a tennant know their landlord's residence status? The revenue regularily make mistakes, and it's their job.

That's apparently not the view revenue take,

beaufoy

Do you know the Irish tax system. What action the revenue take concerning collecting taxes on sublet income is up to them, but as far as my knowledge stretches according to the rules if a tenant sub lets then he is liable to pay tax on the rent he receives.....yes or no

murphaph

beaufoy wrote: »

Do you know the Irish tax system. What action the revenue take concerning collecting taxes on sublet income is up to them, but as far as my knowledge stretches according to the rules if a tenant sub lets then he is liable to pay tax on the rent he receives.....yes or no

If he sublets the whole and cannot avail of the rent a room allowance then yes, his income is obviously taxable as yours is from him.

Mrs OBumble

murphaph wrote: »

If he sublets the whole and cannot avail of the rent a room allowance then yes, his income is obviously taxable as yours is from him.

Ahh i think its his/her profit which is taxable.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh i think its his/her profit which is taxable.

If the ops tenant is subletting the full apartment then he is liable for tax on the full rent received less any allowable expenses. The rent he pays the LL is the equivalent of a homeowners capital repayment of a mortgage. It's not tax deductable.

murphaph

Camila Pitiful Neighborhood wrote: »

If the ops tenant is subletting the full apartment then he is liable for tax on the full rent received less any allowable expenses. The rent he pays the LL is the equivalent of a homeowners capital repayment of a mortgage. It's not tax deductable.

I'm pretty sure it's not the same as a mortgage payment and would indeed be tax deductible. A mortgage capital repayment is paying back money you received, hence not deductible. A rent payment is not a repayment of monies received. It's payment for a service incurred in the course of subletting, hence fully tax deductible.

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's not the same as a mortgage payment and would indeed be tax deductible. A mortgage capital repayment is paying back money you received, hence not deductible. A rent payment is not a repayment of monies received. It's payment for a service incurred in the course of subletting, hence fully tax deductible.

I would have thought it wasn't but I wasn't sure so I may be wrong.

Madness that a mortgage capital repayment isn't tax deductive in general but even worse if the rent you receive is tax deductible if subletting or how a person renting themselves and renting out their house can't deduct the rent they pay from their tax bill.

beaufoy

It seems the tenant now claims that he has split up from his wife and is now living alone in my apartment. If he finds someone else to move in with him, does the new person have to be approved by me

handlemaster

beaufoy wrote: »

This is strange because the people who have replied seem to be more interested in my tax status than they do in helping me to stop my tenant sub letting. However, said concern about tax has given me an idea. If I am correct irish tax rules state that rent paid is not tax deductible, but  rent received is tax deductible. Therefore if my tenant sub lets he is liable for tax on the income received.
ex......he pays me 800pcm not tax deductable
he receives 800,900, or a thousand per month on which he is liable to pay tax, so he has to charge the person he is renting to 1000 euro pcm in order to break even

The reason they are interested in the tax is 90% of the time the landlord has to be made out to be bad in the eyes of the public. I think people feel better afterwards LOL

handlemaster

beaufoy wrote: »

It seems the tenant now claims that he has split up from his wife and is now living alone in my apartment. If he finds someone else to move in with him, does the new person have to be approved by me

Get rid. You are already having hassle. I dont see it getting better.

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

Get rid. You are already having hassle. I dont see it getting better.

I'd be inclined to agree with Handlemaster- get rid of the current tenant at your first legitimate opportunity- this is only going to get worse and worse.
Also- for crying out loud- appoint an agent to manage the property- or sell it- you cannot carry on letting your property in this manner- it simply doesn't work.

The tenants know they can screw you around the place- and its not going to get any better. The best solution for you- now that property prices have recovered- is to sell the unit- if you're not going to run it properly, with an agent- you are going to get hammered by a tenant who has half an idea of how the RTB works- you're hardly going to be in a position to fly backwards and forwards to attend tribunals, and their claim could be totally without any merit whatsoever- but if you don't defend it- you loose.......

You can't run a rental from abroad on autopilot- you are going to get screwed if you try- you've been relatively lucky thus far.

beaufoy

There are reasons why I avoid agents. I started with an agent who whilst working for me made a few mistakes
a Failed to collect 400 euro for pro rata first month of rental
b Charged 300 for fitting new top to cooker I later discovered they had charged 150 for less than an hour.
c Failed to make an inventory of what belonged to me in the apartment

ps Can I stop my tenant from getting his friend the trouble making tenant who was there originally back into the apartment

The_Conductor

beaufoy wrote: »

There are reasons why I avoid agents. I started with an agent who whilst working for me made a few mistakes
a Failed to collect 400 euro for pro rata first month of rental
b Charged 300 for fitting new top to cooker I later discovered they had charged 150 for less than an hour.
c Failed to make an inventory of what belonged to me in the apartment

ps Can I stop my tenant from getting his friend the trouble making tenant who was there originally back into the apartment

Beaufoy-

a) I'm not sure how any agent wouldn't collect rent- aside from any other reason, their fee is normally calculated as a percentage of rent paid- so neglecting to collect simply doesn't make sense.

b) An agent may have a deal with a local electrician to do call-outs. 300 may be a reasonable fee for a replacement cooker (seems pricey to me- but hey). What normally happens is any expenditure over a certain level (normally set fairly lowly- say 100 Euro) has to be approved by the landlord in advance. That you allowed 300 quid be spent repairing a cooker- is on you, I'd argue.

c) An inventory? Normally the landlord supplies an inventory to the agent- who goes through it with the tenant at the outset of the tenancy. If there is nothing of discernible value in the property- perhaps you might forget about it- not really an issue.

Seems like you didn't sit down with the agent and go through what your expectations were?

As for the 'friend' who caused all this trouble in the past. Is the 'friend' on the lease? You are within your rights to refuse anyone permission to stay in your property- providing you are not deemed to be discriminating against them on a prohibited ground. If they caused trouble in the past- I can't see how/why you would be expected to allow them become a tenant again. You *need* to get someone local to assist you though- there is no manner you're going to police this from overseas- its simply not feasible.

beaufoy

The_Conductor wrote: »

Beaufoy-

a) I'm not sure how any agent wouldn't collect rent- aside from any other reason, their fee is normally calculated as a percentage of rent paid- so neglecting to collect simply doesn't make sense.

b) An agent may have a deal with a local electrician to do call-outs. 300 may be a reasonable fee for a replacement cooker (seems pricey to me- but hey). What normally happens is any expenditure over a certain level (normally set fairly lowly- say 100 Euro) has to be approved by the landlord in advance. That you allowed 300 quid be spent repairing a cooker- is on you, I'd argue.

c) An inventory? Normally the landlord supplies an inventory to the agent- who goes through it with the tenant at the outset of the tenancy. If there is nothing of discernible value in the property- perhaps you might forget about it- not really an issue.

Seems like you didn't sit down with the agent and go through what your expectations were?

As for the 'friend' who caused all this trouble in the past. Is the 'friend' on the lease? You are within your rights to refuse anyone permission to stay in your property- providing you are not deemed to be discriminating against them on a prohibited ground. If they caused trouble in the past- I can't see how/why you would be expected to allow them become a tenant again. You *need* to get someone local to assist you though- there is no manner you're going to police this from overseas- its simply not feasible.

Point a the agent who took the job understood that rent was owed, but she left the agency and did not tell the new agent about the owed rent. When I told the new agent she said she had talked to the tenants and they said they would pay the money owed, but they didn't

When I was told about the cooker top I looked up prices and for my make. It was difficult to identify the exact part but I expected the price to be about 120 plus 40 fitting fee. So when I was deducted 150 for new cooker i thought it was cheap. However the next month an extra 150 was deducted for delivery and fitting making 300

concerning the inventory i employed the agent and they visited with me, and told me during the next week everything would be sorted. About a month later I was sent a copy of the rental agreement, but the inventory list was blank. I asked why and was told the agent that had left had made up the inventory list and it could not be found. After a few weeks they admitted that no inventory list had been written

ps do you know if i can say no to my tenant bringing back the tenant who left the apartment a year ago

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

ps do you know if i can say no to my tenant bringing back the tenant who left the apartment a year ago

You can tell them subletting in general isn't allowed not just bringing back your old tenant.

beaufoy

Hello it is me again the non resident land lord. A few weeks ago I told the tenant that I would be flying over and would arrive in Dublin during June. I then obtained a flight and told the tenant I would be in Dublin early afternoon Friday 16th June and that I would come to the apartment late afternoon after i visit the tax office. He wrote back saying he starts work (taxi driver) at 3 pm, so he would not be home late afternoon.
He already knows that I have accommodation fixed up in Limerick for friday 16th night. Should I pay for a hotel in Dublin in order to fit in with his timetable, or should I catch the bus to Limerick and then make a special day trip back to dublin when he is not too busy to see me. Or should I give him notice and then go to the apartment on friday 16 june, and inspect it without him being there.
The apartment is a one bedroom in Mountjoy square, the going rent on said apartment is 1200pcm but i cannot increase it to said price because of the new rent increase restrictions, so instead I increased it from 825 to 860 pcm, but the tenant is reluctant to pay the new rent.
The last rent increase was 2.5 years ago when the rent went from 650 to 825. Of course he did not want to pay said increase but eventually did, but failed to pay the 175 euro so the deposit would match the rent. This of course means that 210 will have to be paid so the deposit will match the rent but the tenant does not want to pay this 210 either.
Now concerning the tenant refusing to pay the rent he did the same 2.5 years ago, but eventually paid....He does not refuse directly to pay more rent he just continually begs to be let off.
Now I know that if I give him one month's notice to leave because he will not pay the rent, or allow me to visit the apartment on my own terms then he will concede to my demands. However, after I caught him subletting i let him stay renting my apartment on condition he becomes a good tenant. Obviously he has failed to do so. Therefore can I give him 4 weeks (he has been there several years) notice to leave on the ground that six months ago he sublet without permission

The_Conductor

Beaufoy-you caught him subletting the property, without permission- and allowed him to stay- despite not having a month's rent as a deposit (most landlords are seeking 2-3 months rent as a deposit these days).

You've let the guy get away with murder so far.
If you stay over on Friday night to conduct an inspection on Saturday morning- its entirely possible he'll have a fresh excuse why you can't be there on Saturday morning- and its equally as possible that you'll find someone there who you've never met before in their life- who consider Mr. Taxi Driver to be their landlord, and who are paying the going rate- and not Mr. Taxi Driver.

Who is your local agent- and why haven't they kept track of all of this for you- this is what you're paying them for........?

Graces7

The_Conductor wrote: »

Beaufoy-you caught him subletting the property, without permission- and allowed him to stay- despite not having a month's rent as a deposit (most landlords are seeking 2-3 months rent as a deposit these days).

You've let the guy get away with murder so far.
If you stay over on Friday night to conduct an inspection on Saturday morning- its entirely possible he'll have a fresh excuse why you can't be there on Saturday morning- and its equally as possible that you'll find someone there who you've never met before in their life- who consider Mr. Taxi Driver to be their landlord, and who are paying the going rate- and not Mr. Taxi Driver.

Who is your local agent- and why haven't they kept track of all of this for you- this is what you're paying them for........?

The OP has no agent and the tenants know this.

[Steve]

This seems like a complete mess here.

I'd have the following recommendations for the landlord (OP) given the current messy situation.

1. Find a reputable and reliable agent to manage the property - You aren't resident in Ireland nor have anyone to overlook the property regularly, your tenants - present and future - could be doing anything with your property (Sub-let, acting landlord, etc). I do understand this cuts into your return on rent but considering the hassle so far it just makes sense to get an agent.
2. Sounds like the current tenant is still subletting and probably charging a higher rent to make a profit - I would have him removed.
3. Engage with the PRTB to find a resolution for this situation if you cannot have the current tenant removed.

Overall, you should really just remove all current tenant(s) from the property and find new ones. Set expectation of a professional couple/single to move in and seek references from prior landlords/workplace.

I'm a tenant myself, and have been renting in my current property for almost 3 years. If I was a landlord however I wouldn't put up with anything that you've mentioned so far. Those tenants would have been kicked out at the nearest available opportunity.

Upon reading this entire thread I'd highly recommend you follow the 3 recommendations above. It's very suspicious that the tenant is conveniently not around when you want to inspect. Tells me there's something else going on in that gaff.

ED E

beaufoy wrote: »

...

Honestly dont know why you come back asking for more advice when everything that has been suggested to you, correctly I might add, has been totally ignored.


You had one (maybe)bad agent, it happens. A shopkeeper once shortchanged me, doesnt mean I never shop. Get over it.

beaufoy

please answer the questions in my post

If the tenant refuses to be in the apartment when I want to visit, can I go in and inspect using my own keys

Can I use the fact that he sublet without permission in the past to give one month notice now, let me explain , because he has been there so long he is entitled to 3 months notice, but when he sublet last year i could of used his breakage of the terms of lease to force him out after one month. However, I let him off at said time...A year later can I force him out for what he did in the past.

oh yes there is another question..if i throw the tenant out...instead of using an agent as you all suggest, could i let an airbnb management company do the renting for me. I suspect because rents can no longer rise in the centre of dublin other landlords have considered using airbnb management to bypass the rent increase rules