Public Feedback sought on College Green Plaza

Moflojo

Dublin City Council are seeking feedback from the public, via an online survey, on the proposed redevelopment of College Green. The new civic space will have a major impact on cycling in Dublin city centre so it is important for cyclists (along with every other citizen) to have a say on how this space is redeveloped. As with any survey weight-of-numbers is important so please don't leave it up to others to fill it out on your behalf: Have your say, take 5-10 minutes to fill out the survey and express your own personal views.

There are a number of supporting documents outlining the current plans for College Green which are worth flicking through before filling out the survey. The documents can be found at the bottom of the 'Imagine College Green' webpage but I'll link to some of them directly here too.

Imagine College Green Survey (All docs at bottom of page): https://consultation.dublincity.ie/projects/backup-copy-of-imagine-college-green-online-public/

College Green Proposal (Presentation Document): http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/PublishingImages/CollegeGreenpresentation11thapril2016.pdf

College Green Traffic Management Measures: http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/Documents/CollegeGreenConsultationDocument.pdf

schemingbohemia

26 January is closing date

dermabrasion

I think this is brilliant. Now, CPO the Bank of Ireland to sell Parliament Building (College Green) to the State for €1. Move the national museum or library there.

Moflojo

dermabrasion wrote: »

I think this is brilliant. Now, CPO the Bank of Ireland to sell Parliament Building (College Green) to the State for €1. Move the national museum or library there.

Absolutely agree. The BoI TV ad where they show off the building drove me nuts over the Christmas.

Mercian Pro

A quote from the consultation document:
"The focus of this consultation is on the design of the Civic Plaza and not on the traffic management proposals."
The survey questions very much follow from this with no real mention of how cyclists will get from Westmoreland Street to Dame Street or Lr Grafton Street. There are oportunities to raise these concerns and, as Mojoflo has said, it is well worth doing.

Moflojo

Bumping this to reminds folks to fill out this survey on the redevelopment of College Green - the redevelopment will directly impact cyclists but could also have a dramatic impact on transport culture across Dublin, i.e. an improved attitude towards active travel (walking & cycling).

If you're not doing much on this quiet Sunday evening please take 10 minutes to fill out the survey here: https://consultation.dublincity.ie/projects/backup-copy-of-imagine-college-green-online-public/

Moflojo wrote: »

Dublin City Council are seeking feedback from the public, via an online survey, on the proposed redevelopment of College Green. The new civic space will have a major impact on cycling in Dublin city centre so it is important for cyclists (along with every other citizen) to have a say on how this space is redeveloped. As with any survey weight-of-numbers is important so please don't leave it up to others to fill it out on your behalf: Have your say, take 5-10 minutes to fill out the survey and express your own personal views.

Imagine College Green Survey (All docs at bottom of page): https://consultation.dublincity.ie/projects/backup-copy-of-imagine-college-green-online-public/

College Green Proposal (Presentation Document): http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/PublishingImages/CollegeGreenpresentation11thapril2016.pdf

College Green Traffic Management Measures: http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/Documents/CollegeGreenConsultationDocument.pdf

Mercian Pro

While it is technically outside the area of the plaza as outlined in yellow above, does anyone know how/if cyclists will get around by the front of Trinity to Lr Grafton Street and Nassau Street. The Luas, buses and taxis look like they will share the same two-way lanes but will there be lanes for bikes?
It is designated as the "East-West Central Spine" in the Cycle Network Plan for the Greater Dublin Area.

cdaly_

I think the intention is for you to cross the plaza and use Church Lane and Suffolk Street.

Moflojo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

While it is technically outside the area of the plaza as outlined in yellow above, does anyone know how/if cyclists will get around by the front of Trinity to Lr Grafton Street and Nassau Street. The Luas, buses and taxis look like they will share the same two-way lanes but will there be lanes for bikes?
It is designated as the "East-West Central Spine" in the Cycle Network Plan for the Greater Dublin Area.

There doesn't seem to be much thought gone into how cyclists will interact with the new Luas cross-city infrastructure in general. There are a lot of really awkward intersections being installed along the new Luas route that are going to catch out cyclists. In a way, this is more of a Luas Cross-City issue than a College Green issue but it'd be worth mentioning in any responses to the survey anyway.

Staying on the same [off-topic] issue, I cycled up Dominick Street the other day and it really isn't going to be cycle-friendly. The only relatively safe area to cycle is inside the tram tracks (in the middle of the lane) and then there are a couple of points where the tracks cross each other at an awful angle for cyclists.

Mercian Pro

cdaly_ wrote: »

I think the intention is for you to cross the plaza and use Church Lane and Suffolk Street.

Any idea if this has actually been decided? I can't find any specific reference to it in any of the reports. If it is the case, there will be a lot more cyclists crossing the plaza in both directions and a lot more potential for conflict with pedestrians.

Moflojo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Any idea if this has actually been decided? I can't find any specific reference to it in any of the reports. If it is the case, there will be a lot more cyclists crossing the plaza in both directions and a lot more potential for conflict with pedestrians.

Even if this is the case (Use Church Lane and Suffolk Street to get to Nassau Street), the same conflict with the Luas lines will arise as soon as cyclists get around to Nassau Street. Church Lane & Suffolk Street are also going to be designated as 'access' for deliveries and car parks so they're unlikely to be cycle-friendly.

Moflojo

The deadline for filling out this survey on College Green is this Thursday 26th January - please fill it out here now: https://consultation.dublincity.ie/projects/backup-copy-of-imagine-college-green-online-public/

Moflojo wrote: »

Dublin City Council are seeking feedback from the public, via an online survey, on the proposed redevelopment of College Green. The new civic space will have a major impact on cycling in Dublin city centre so it is important for cyclists (along with every other citizen) to have a say on how this space is redeveloped. As with any survey weight-of-numbers is important so please don't leave it up to others to fill it out on your behalf: Have your say, take 5-10 minutes to fill out the survey and express your own personal views.

There are a number of supporting documents outlining the current plans for College Green which are worth flicking through before filling out the survey. The documents can be found at the bottom of the 'Imagine College Green' webpage but I'll link to some of them directly here too.

Imagine College Green Survey (All docs at bottom of page): https://consultation.dublincity.ie/projects/backup-copy-of-imagine-college-green-online-public/

College Green Proposal (Presentation Document): http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/PublishingImages/CollegeGreenpresentation11thapril2016.pdf

College Green Traffic Management Measures: http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/Documents/CollegeGreenConsultationDocument.pdf

seamus

dermabrasion wrote: »

I think this is brilliant. Now, CPO the Bank of Ireland to sell Parliament Building (College Green) to the State for €1. Move the national museum or library there.

Can't CPO anything for a €1. It's a constitutional thing really. You can CPO anything for the public good, but you have to pay a fair price.
Traditionally a CPO overvalues the property so that the person will either take the council's hand off, or lose the challenge in court because they're being offered more than a fair price.

I expect for taxation purposes, BoI might prefer some kind of tax write-off solution where they "donate" the building to the national museum, rather than a direct cash purchase of a few hundred million.

Mercian Pro

Just saw an article announcing the appointment of the design team for the College Green redevelopment. Hopefully there will be plans to comment on before too long.

AndrewJRenko

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Just saw an article announcing the appointment of the design team for the College Green redevelopment. Hopefully there will be plans to comment on before too long.

WHo got the job? A link would be great.

cython

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

WHo got the job? A link would be great.

Second result on googling "college green redevelopment design team" - you could probably have done the same as quick as asking for the link, and definitely in the 50 mins it took to get a response here

http://www.businessworld.ie/news-from-ireland/New-design-team-for-College-Green-Civic-Plaza-project-567507.html

Mercian Pro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

WHo got the job? A link would be great.

http://www.riai.ie/news/article/dublin_city_council_announces_appointment_of_design_team_for_college_green

I know Paul Keogh is a regular commuter cyclist but a lot will depend on the brief the design team is given.

Mercian Pro

At last we know what is planned for College Green. It has the potential to be be a great civic space and hopefully will get through the planning process intact.

From a cycling perspective, the two way bike path from D'Olier Street continues along in front of Trinity between the Luas tracks and the plaza. Then there is another linked bike path proposed along the south side of the plaza opposite the Bank of Ireland. The main problem seems to be outside the plaza on Lr Grafton Street where the bike path, that should continue round into Nassau Street, runs into a bus stop and vanishes. This is meant to be one of the main cycle routes in the city but it looks as if we are expected to share with the Luas, buses and taxis while bunny-jumping the tracks.

I love Sean nos

Has anyone consulted with the Data Protection Commissioner about the public installation of a gigantic hard drive in the middle of Dublin 2? I hope it's encrypted at least.

Thinkingaboutit

I will try offer my thoughts, but going on recent cycling related decision on the Quays and Boardwalk (Druggie's walk more like), the final outcome will involve giving a bit to every monied lobby, making the final result impractical, not particularly safe or savoury. More could be done with that end of Dame Street. Hope there's no need to be cynical.

flatface

It seems almost cruel to present such a nice looking, practical plan focused on people enjoying the city centre - before it goes through 10 rince cycles of watering down due to concerned businesses

flatface

flatface wrote: »

It seems almost cruel to present such a nice looking, practical plan focused on people enjoying the city centre - before it goes through 10 rince cycles of watering down due to concerned businesses

Sorry, since it sunny this week I resolve to be more optimistic. Bravo the planners for getting this civic space so far along, I wish them every success in completing it as envisaged.

dermabrasion

its going to be a great civic space, and Im thrilled humans are beginning to outrank cars in their city.
Just regarding the abrupt end of the bike lane, if there is no clear path it will lead to the same confusion as we see in Grand Cana: Where do I walk, where do I cycle?
It is unrealistic that cyclist will dismount.

loyatemu

dermabrasion wrote: »

its going to be a great civic space, and Im thrilled humans are beginning to outrank cars in their city.
Just regarding the abrupt end of the bike lane, if there is no clear path it will lead to the same confusion as we see in Grand Cana: Where do I walk, where do I cycle?
It is unrealistic that cyclist will dismount.

GCD is confusing but I don't think there are any major conflicts (though I'm not there that often). "Cycle slowly and watch out for walkers" seems to work despite the usual predictions of armageddon whenever cycling and walking are mixed.

Hurrache

So An Bord Pleanna has rejected it. I've had a quick look at the published documents and this seemed odd to me.

In respect of Cycling and Pedestrians, the impacts arising from potential
conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians, and of buses and emergency
vehicles with both groups are considered unacceptable from a safety point
of view.

The above quote is from document 2, Inspectors Report re Traffic and Transportation
http://www.pleanala.ie/news//JA0039/JA0039.htm

And Mannix Flynn, as mad as ever said this in his representation

6. Some cyclists will not follow rules and he questioned how cycling could be
managed in and around the plaza, pointing out the different types and
sizes of bicycles.

average_runner

Hurrache wrote: »

So An Bord Pleanna has rejected it. I've had a quick look at the published documents and this seemed odd to me.



The above quote is from document 2, Inspectors Report re Traffic and Transportation
http://www.pleanala.ie/news//JA0039/JA0039.htm

And Mannix Flynn, as mad as ever said this in his representation

The pics on the above posts, are not ideal for cycling and pedestrians. It all seems to merge into one, so would have to ensure no one is cycling at speed in the area, which would never be obeyed.

They would need to make a more clear separate lane so if be obvious if someone walked out on it, look at what happened on O'Connell st when it got done up, elderly couldn't tell the difference from the road to the path:rolleyes:

Weepsie

6. Some cyclists will not follow rules and he questioned how cycling could be
managed in and around the plaza, pointing out the different types and
sizes of bicycles.

Jaysus, if that's the standard then no more roads should be built, because some drivers will not follow rules! Nor paths as pedestrians have been known to break all sorts of rules. Who votes for this man?

average_runner

Weepsie wrote: »

Jaysus, if that's the standard then no more roads should be built, because some drivers will not follow rules! Nor paths as pedestrians have been known to break all sorts of rules. Who votes for this man?

You think he might propose an alternative safer idea instead of just saying no

tomasrojo

This seems to be a good summing up of the Bord P. rejection:
https://twitter.com/__kbaker__/status/1052674176442454016

(If he's accurate, it's a cautious and fair rejection, and the door is open to come back, but with more consideration given to knock-on effects. It also rejects quite a lot of "Dublin Town" and the taxi lobby's BS, from what he says.)
(HT @ccferrie on Twitter)