Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

alastair

alastair wrote: »

You get that those bolded points have nothing to do with your previous posts?

I've already provided links to support the fact that Sweden logs instances of rape differently to other states.

You posted an link comparing how Sweden and Denmark log instances of rape, as justification for your statement that Ireland "probably" has similar rape rates to Sweden.
You further referred to Denmark as "other States".

Again, prove your assertions.

rgossip30

alastair wrote: »

Why let facts get in the way of a good diatribe.

The fact is it was allowed continue for years remember the Latvian PM calling Ireland the marriage capital of Europe .

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

You posted an link comparing how Sweden and Denmark log instances of rape, as justification for your statement that Ireland "probably" has similar rape rates to Sweden.
You further referred to Denmark as "other States".

Again, prove your assertions.

Already done - multiple times for you at this stage.

Mary63

This scam earned the criminals in excess of 20 million euros.

The Gardai woke up in 2013 and smelt a rat, they did nothing till 2015 and now they think the numbers engaged in this scam are far higher than they originally thought.

How did these undesirables get into Ireland in the first place, can we somehow identify this type of person on arrival and put them on the next plane back To Pakistan or wherever.How do they even get the money together to fly into Dublin and what looney left liberal twit is granting them asylum.

They are abusing our hospitality be bringing in Eastern European women for the purposes of gaining access to welfare payments throughout Europe, this is the only reason the Calais "teenagers" are coming here as well, they have no interest in Ireland and no interest in any services we provide for them other than hard cash in their pockets.I would be very unhappy if some of these twenty five year olds with questionable respect for women would end up sitting beside any of my daughters in school.None of these men and lets stop wasting time, they are adult men will have been vetted and no one knows who they are or what sort of a past they have.They know full well who they are and what age they are but they will have destroyed all documents.Does anyone know did the French take their finger prints before off loading them with their schoolbags and capri suns onto us.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

This scam earned the criminals in excess of 20 million euros.

The Gardai woke up in 2013 and smelt a rat, they did nothing till 2015 and now they think the numbers engaged in this scam are far higher than they originally thought.
.

Just because a unit was set up in 2015, to specifically deal with this crime, that doesn't mean they didn't do anything. Of course gardai were dealing with it, which is why they realised the problem was bigger than they thought, and they needed to set up that unit!

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

How did these undesirables get into Ireland in the first place, can we somehow identify this type of person on arrival and put them on the next plane back To Pakistan or wherever.How do they even get the money together to fly into Dublin and what looney left liberal twit is granting them asylum.

Why assume the Pakistani men were looking for asylum?

And I don't know if the French have taken their fingerprints, but I do know that all refugees coming to Ireland will have fingerprints taken before they leave France.

recedite

bubblypop wrote: »

And I don't know if the French have taken their fingerprints, but I do know that all refugees coming to Ireland will have fingerprints taken before they leave France.

Will be useful if they commit some future crime or fraud in Ireland under a different name.
Tells us nothing about their past life though.

Mary63

I hope the fingerprints of all the economic migrants will be taken and that includes even the ones who claim to be minors.I hope a central register is kept Europe wide so even when they abscond across the border the UK authorities will have records to check should they commit crime/fraud in the UK.

Why else would someone from Pakistan come here Bubblepop, don't be silly.No one from Pakistan has the right to come here and most of what we are getting seem to be the dregs of Pakistan, e.g. the rapist of the Downs syndrome woman.Has anyone done a study of all these immigrants, have any managed to get a job at all or do they go straight onto social welfare.Who provides their accommodation, people in good jobs can't even afford to rent so where are these mostly illegal immigrants living.

If they set it up in 2013 it shouldn't have taken two years to find these criminals, they were busy faking false PPS numbers and false documentation so they are ten steps ahead of the Gardai.What penalties did they face I wonder.I hope all their finger prints were taken before deportation so they can't come back here again.Waste of Gardai time when they should be training up on how to protect us from radicalised Muslims.

Hexen

Fingerprints are held by Eurodac for 10 years (in the case of asylum seekers).

Hexen

Leaving aside immigration offences is there any evidence that migrants or asylum seekers/refugees contribute disproportionately to crime rates?

[...]
There has been a continuous reduction in property crimes in England and Wales since 2002. This period has also witnessed a rise in the foreign-born share of the population. Indeed, there is a negative correlation between the level of property crimes and the foreign-born share of the population for the whole period presented in Figure 1. However, correlation is not the same as causation, and more detailed studies across a range of countries do not find evidence that the rise in migration caused the crime rate to drop.
[...]

The share of asylum seekers in the local population is related to a 1.1% rise in property crime but no change in violent crime. A rise in A8 migrants as a share of the population is associated with a 0.4% fall in property crime and has no relationship to violent crime

Bell et al. (2013) examine local crime patterns in England and Wales from 2002 to 2009 in order to determine whether there is any causal effect of an increase in the foreign-born population on crime. They focus on two large groups of migrants that arrived in the UK over this period. First, asylum seekers arising initially from the dislocations in former Yugoslavia and subsequently from war-torn societies such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Second, the large migrant flows coming from the A8 countries, particularly Poland, since 2004. The research showed that it is possible to derive causal estimates for both migrant groups and found that the share of asylum seekers in the local population was related to a rise in property crime, while a rise in A8 migrants was associated with a fall in property crime. Neither group was associated with statistically significant changes in violent crime. Estimates suggest that a one percentage point increase in the asylum seeker share of the local population is associated with a 1.1% rise in property crime. Since asylum seekers accounted for only around 0.1% of the population, the macro effects were small. A one percentage point increase in the share of the population that was born in the A8 countries leads to 0.4% fall in property crime.

Bell et al. (2013) suggest that the estimated effects for asylum seekers and A8 migrants may be the result of differences in the labour market opportunities of the two groups. The A8 migrants who arrived in the UK came almost entirely for work reasons and have higher employment rates than the UK-born. The motivation of asylum seekers was different, and they are not allowed to work in the UK upon arrival and also have reduced access to welfare benefits. Given the lengthy process involved in deciding asylum applications, this restriction is likely to have increased the relative returns to crime.

Immigration and Crime: Evidence for the UK and Other Countries

Ah Mary Mary Mary, you appear to be very sheltered altogether!
I have met many people from Pakistan, they were students, holiday makers & workers.
You must think that Ireland is the envy of the whole world or something!

Mary63

Aren't you just marvellous bubblypop, did you ask them did they read the Bookseller of Kabul or the other really grim depressing book about the lives of women in Pakistan, I think it might have been titled Half the yellow sun.

You were probably too busy though showing them what a marvellous liberal person you are.Hope you dress properly and cover yourself up completely when you make the return visit to Pakistan, they won't be making any exceptions for you.

Part of the defence for the Pakistani rapist was that he didn't know his victim had Downs syndrome, he stated that in his home country she would be locked in at home out of sight of the neighbours, thats what happens to disabled people in Pakistan seemingly.

I don't think Ireland is the nay of anything, I think we have really inept immigration control and we are being used as a back door to get into the Uk.

We have people living in refugee accommodation here and some of them have been allowed to stay.There are about sixty of them though who won't leave direct provision, why would they when they have free food, free accommodation, free health care, free schoolbooks and all paid for by the taxpayers of this country, why would they want to go out and actually get a job.

Nope, I'm not marvellous at all, I'm just an ordinary person that takes people as I find them.
I don't see what the country of someone's birth has to do with anything?

I don't care what that Pakistani man said in his defence, defendants say all sorts in their defense.
Also, it doesn't matter what they do in Pakistan, so long as when they are here they observe our laws. If they don't they will be prosecuted, same as everyone else.
I have been to Pakistan, I have also been to India and the UAE. If I needed to cover up, then I covered up. Don't see the problem with that?
I thought you believed people in this country should observe our laws? Well I'm the same, also if I'm in their country I observe their laws.

Widdershins

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah Mary Mary Mary, you appear to be very sheltered altogether!
I have met many people from Pakistan, they were students, holiday makers & workers.
You must think that Ireland is the envy of the whole world or something!

Not sure what your point is but Mary's right actually. Pakistan is culturally a ****hole especially for women. They have more problem than I've had hot dinners. If you have an issue with that being stated then you are ignorant of the reality.

Mary63

I was absolutely appalled at that defence, really and truly shocked thinking of the lives of disabled people in Pakistan.I was shocked too that he seemed to be of the belief that it was okay to rape women but maybe not women with a mental disability.

I very much think it does matter what men do in Pakistan, their norms are very different to ours, this rapist was pestering local women for months and he went out pestering women again for sex immediately after he committed the rape.Itmeant nothing to him because he believed women were worthless.He didn't observe our laws either, rape and sexual assaults are crime in Ireland and it doesn't matter if you come from a country where you are taught a woman not covered from head to toe is asking to be raped.

You went to Pakistan and to India and to the UAE on holidays so you agreed while there for your own safety to cover up.I am presuming you have no intention of forcing your way into any of those countries to live permanently and cover up permanently.Tere are people forcing their way into this country who think women have no rights and they are subservient to men.France tried to deal with muslims who won't respect equal right which every french citizen has,to get round the obligatory covering up of muslim women France decided no one was to cover up, this is the law in France and if you don't like it then go back to a country where covering up is the norm.The French Government will quite happily buy you a one way ticket back.

Female circumcision is illegal is most European countries too and yet six year olds are being taken back to other countries to be multilated.Thats another law some of these economic migrants have every intention of breaking, I mean why are they in Western European countries in the first place if they think their way of life is so superior.

Widdershins

Mary63 wrote: »

I was absolutely appalled at that defence, really and truly shocked thinking of the lives of disabled people in Pakistan.I was shocked too that he seemed to be of the belief that it was okay to rape women but maybe not women with a mental disability.

I very much think it does matter what men do in Pakistan, their norms are very different to ours, this rapist was pestering local women for months and he went out pestering women again for sex immediately after he committed the rape.Itmeant nothing to him because he believed women were worthless.He didn't observe our laws either, rape and sexual assaults are crime in Ireland and it doesn't matter if you come from a country where you are taught a woman not covered from head to toe is asking to be raped.

You went to Pakistan and to India and to the UAE on holidays so you agreed while there for your own safety to cover up.I am presuming you have no intention of forcing your way into any of those countries to live permanently and cover up permanently.Tere are people forcing their way into this country who think women have no rights and they are subservient to men.France tried to deal with muslims who won't respect equal right which every french citizen has,to get round the obligatory covering up of muslim women France decided no one was to cover up, this is the law in France and if you don't like it then go back to a country where covering up is the norm.The French Government will quite happily buy you a one way ticket back.

Female circumcision is illegal is most European countries too and yet six year olds are being taken back to other countries to be multilated.Thats another law some of these economic migrants have every intention of breaking, I mean why are they in Western European countries in the first place if they think their way of life is so superior.

One more thing about that rape case. It was explained thaat when he came to Ireland he had a big culture shock when he saw men and women holding hands and even kissing in the street. Think about that...

Why else do they give what amounts to ''don't rape'' classes to asylum seekers? Anyone doggedly denying there are countries where men are brought up with a really bad way of thinking about and acting around women is in need of a reality check at this stage. Time to get over the fear of being offensive, it's not offensive to admit or face the reality. No need to make assumptions about individuals at all, but be aware of the cultural differences because it matters!

Western women are bloody fortunate to live in the society we live in.

recedite

Hexen wrote: »

Fingerprints are held by Eurodac for 10 years (in the case of asylum seekers).

Seems strange, why throw out important records after 10 years?

Also lets not pretend this constitutes "vetting" in any way. Its putting them on the record for the first time; giving them a blank slate. Does anybody phone the police station in their home town to find out what their actual record is like?
Shouldn't be too hard to talk to the local police these days, with skype and the like available.
Of course, the migrant might have to give their correct home address and country of origin for that to work.

I agree, we are lucky to live in this country.
We have laws here, if someone breaks them they are prosecuted.
Ignorance Of The law is no defence, so even if it's 'OK' to rape women in other countries, it's not here.

Mary63

Seemingly there are no records in many of the countries where these men are coming from and no one knows who they are.Also if you come from a country where women don't report rape because they will be told it was their fault anyway and they will be considered damaged goods, there will be no records kept of rapists so they can rape again and again and again.

They aren't going to undertake some huge change of mind and attitude just because they are given asylum.

Its a bit facile to say if laws are broken someone will be prosecuted.Try telling that to the women in Cologne, prosecuting someone for raping you doesn't take away the fact that your life as you know it has been destroyed.Its not good enough to say don't judge people by where they come from, give them the benefit of the doubt and if they rape women, well, so what they will be prosecuted for it.How do you deal with a situation where potential rapists outnumber the Police force as happened in Cologne, this isn't very reassuring for Irish women when we know we haven't enough Gardai as it is.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

One more thing about that rape case. It was explained thaat when he came to Ireland he had a big culture shock when he saw men and women holding hands and even kissing in the street. Think about that...

Think about this - his lawyer was making whatever defence looked like it might benefit his client - including one of a low functioning IQ. It's not particularly instructive beyond that context - no-one was buying it as a convincing defence. Asylum seekers don't receive any special 'don't rape' classes here, nor do they in the vast majority of european asylum processes. Nor do the vast majority of asylum seekers engage in any form of criminal sexual behaviour - even if they come from conservative/reactionary/misogynistic societies. The reality is that much of the world is actively misogynistic and homophobic, that we're not exactly blameless on that front ourselves either, so unless you shut yourself off from much of the world, you're going to encounter perspectives that don't tally with your own. All that really matters is that everyone adheres to the law of the land, regardless of their background.

alastair

Mary63 wrote: »

How do you deal with a situation where potential rapists outnumber the Police force as happened in Cologne, this isn't very reassuring for Irish women when we know we haven't enough Gardai as it is.

'Potential rapists'!?

Mary63

The problem with the Muslims though is that their religion is the basis for most of the misogyny.

The Muslims are completely brainwashed by the Koran so much so that their own personal morals seem to matter little to them.EG, their religious leaders tell them homosexuality is a sin, this means gay people have no human rights in Most Middle Eastern countries and can be stoned to death.

Again try telling the German women that most asylum seekers don't engage in criminal sexual behaviour, its hard to believe that when hundreds of men took to the streets at New Year to engage in concerted sexual assaults.

I think its very important to look at the experiences of the countries that have the largest Muslim populations.We have the UK where Asian gangs engaged in widespread abuse of teenage girls.We have France where hundreds of French born Muslims left to goto Syria to support insane iSIS madmen.We have the Netherlands who are very nervous about the direction their country is going, a film maker was shot dead in the Netherlands because he made a film about the domestic abuse of Muslim women.We have Brussels where you have a vast Muslim ghetto full of badly educated young men who face poor life prospects, this is the fault of their insular religion dominated community but the Muslims don't accept that, its everyone else's fault but theirs.We have Germany where as soon as Angela Merkel opened the doors the sexual crime rate went out of control, you also had a fostered "teenager"murderer attacking train passengers with an axe and then the terrible Berlin murders.

It really isn't very reassuring to be listening to Alastair on this thread, the poor Germans, French, Dutch and most of all the Swedes listened to the likes of Alastair too and look where that got them.

alastair

Mary63 wrote: »

It really isn't very reassuring to be listening to Alastair on this thread

You've no interest in reassurance, just a platform for your broad brushstroke demonisation. Let's be honest.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

Think about this - his lawyer was making whatever defence looked like it might benefit his client - including one of a low functioning IQ. It's not particularly instructive beyond that context - no-one was buying it as a convincing defence. Asylum seekers don't receive any special 'don't rape' classes here, nor do they in the vast majority of european asylum processes. Nor do the vast majority of asylum seekers engage in any form of criminal sexual behaviour - even if they come from conservative/reactionary/misogynistic societies. The reality is that much of the world is actively misogynistic and homophobic, that we're not exactly blameless on that front ourselves either, so unless you shut yourself off from much of the world, you're going to encounter perspectives that don't tally with your own. All that really matters is that everyone adheres to the law of the land, regardless of their background.

One of the points of defense was the rapists upbringing in a strict islamic culture. No matter how or why the defense lawyer phrased it that's still the fact of the matter.

Our society is not in any way comparable in terms of misogyny and to continue to bang that drum is a waste of time. Next you'll be grinding on about Catholicism and priests.

In an ideal world feminists would be shouting about the horrible cultures I mentioned and we'd somehow be able to change that but they don't and we're not. Denying it is an issue or minimising it is even worse.

Yes I agree with your last point about everyone adhering to the law of the land but I don't accept where you are going with minimising the relevance of these cultural points of difference and I suspect your statistics are questionable too. It'd be hard to quote any such statistics since they're not going to be available until A) Police or Media cover ups or whatever you want to call them, stop happening and some time has elapsed after the bulk of the migrants and refugees have settled into the EU countries.

PS I had read somewhere that those classes were given in some countries but I admit I'm hazy on that and might be wrong. Maybe someone could clarify.

Mary63

Absolutely no interest in reassurance, I prefer to look at what has happened in other European countries and learn from their mistakes.

I sincerely hope that Angela Merkel has learned from her mistake and that she will never be allowed to do a solo run on illegal immigrants again.We have no idea who she let into Germany and once these dangerous people are in they can travel anywhere in Europe with their murderous intent.

The culture in Pakistan is so cruel, girls can only be educated up to eight years of age and it is the general belief that they should have their first period in their husbands house rather than their fathers.The women have a hard hard life, the misogyny is very extreme and it shouldn't be minimised by saying its the same in other parts of the world.There is no future for any country that treats half its population like chattels and there will be no change until men making laws to suit themselves and denying other human beings basic rights.

There is no place in Western Europe for men who want to continue to treat women like chattels and who prefer to live in self imposed ghettoes rather than embrace the norms of the country they are living in.France for example took the bull by the horns because the Muslim demands were becoming extreme in what is a secular society, The Muslims related by shooting cartoonists dead and by gunning down people enjoying a concert.

Chips Lovell

Let's step back a little for a minute.

The topic of the thread is the announcement by Children's' minister Katherine Zappone that Ireland is taking in 40 unaccompanied minors from the Calais camp and this could rise to 200.

From this, people seem to have concluded, without knowing anything about the identities

• That these kids are Muslims (not that there's anything wrong with being Muslim)
• That they're not really minors
• That there'll be an unrestricted number of them being taken in
• That they're likely to be rapists and/or terrorists

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

One of the points of defense was the rapists upbringing in a strict islamic culture. No matter how or why the defense lawyer phrased it that's still the fact of the matter.

But it's not any fact that implies any greater degree of risk of sexual assault outside that society.

Widdershins wrote: »

Our society is not in any way comparable in terms of misogyny and to continue to bang that drum is a waste of time. Next you'll be grinding on about Catholicism and priests.

It's a waste of time to pretend that Pakistani immigrants are more likely to rape someone, simply because they come from Pakistan. The point is that casting a critical eye on other region's misogyny without acknowledging that there's a grand tradition of the same here is rather convenient.

Widdershins wrote: »

In an ideal world feminists would be shouting about the horrible cultures I mentioned and we'd somehow be able to change that but they don't and we're not. Denying it is an issue or minimising it is even worse.

Nonsense. You clearly haven't any idea what feminists are 'shouting about'.

Widdershins wrote: »

PS I had read somewhere that those classes were given in some countries but I admit I'm hazy on that and might be wrong. Maybe someone could clarify.

Not so hazy that you didn't feel happy enough to roll out a nice slice of 'alternative facts' to support a half-baked claim.

alastair

That 'sexual crime wave' in Germany - post large scale refugee influx:

At the same time, the pervasive fear of refugee-related crime on display both in German public-opinion polls and Hoaxmap rumors is out of sync with the data so far on the actual relationship between refugees and crime rates in Germany. Recent numbers from Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Agency (BKA) suggest that the influx of refugees into the country this fall had a low impact on crime numbers relative to the natural uptick that would happen with any population increase: Although the number of refugees in the country increased by 440 percent between 2014 and 2015, the number of crimes committed by refugees only increased by 79 percent. (The number of crimes against refugees increased as well.) Furthermore, according to Deutsche Welle’s analysis of the report, the number of offenses increased in the first half of 2015 but “stagnated” in the second half, precisely when most of the refugees were arriving and the rumor mill switched into overdrive. And although sexual offenses account for over 25 percent of the rumors on the Hoaxmap, the BKA data showed that only 1 percent of refugee-related crimes fell into the sexual offense category.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/refugees-crime-rumors/480171/

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

But it's not any fact that implies any greater degree of risk of sexual assault outside that society.



It's a waste of time to pretend that Pakistani immigrants are more likely to rape someone, simply because they come from Pakistan. The point is that casting a critical eye on other region's misogyny without acknowledging that there's a grand tradition of the same here is rather convenient.




Nonsense. You clearly haven't any idea what feminists are 'shouting about'.


Not so hazy that you didn't feel happy enough to roll out a nice slice of 'alternative facts' to support a half-baked claim.

Not that it's constructive to keep discussing with you but what half baked facts do you believe I rolled out? I was uncertain on the classes but I've definitely read something about it so asked for clarification. I never claimed to be all knowing.

Comparing Western countries with Middle East for misogyny is laughable.

R.E Feminists- as one myself I have an idea. But feminists vary in their attitudes and the ones I refer to struggle to convey that, themselves. That is the point. They are NOT shouting about our subjugated 'sisters' abroad. And you add to and compound that by demeaning their suffering. Well done, Alastair.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

Seemingly there are no records in many of the countries where these men are coming from and no one knows who they are.Also if you come from a country where women don't report rape because they will be told it was their fault anyway and they will be considered damaged goods, there will be no records kept of rapists so they can rape again and again and again.

They aren't going to undertake some huge change of mind and attitude just because they are given asylum.

Its a bit facile to say if laws are broken someone will be prosecuted.Try telling that to the women in Cologne, prosecuting someone for raping you doesn't take away the fact that your life as you know it has been destroyed.Its not good enough to say don't judge people by where they come from, give them the benefit of the doubt and if they rape women, well, so what they will be prosecuted for it.How do you deal with a situation where potential rapists outnumber the Police force as happened in Cologne, this isn't very reassuring for Irish women when we know we haven't enough Gardai as it is.

I hate to tell you this, but there are potential rapists everywhere!!!
Anyone can rape and then they can rape and rape again.....

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

R.E Feminists- as one myself I have an idea.

Clearly a misinformed one.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

Clearly a misinformed one.

Your opinion based on nothing. Ironically.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Absolutely no interest in reassurance, I prefer to look at what has happened in other European countries and learn from their mistakes.

I sincerely hope that Angela Merkel has learned from her mistake and that she will never be allowed to do a solo run on illegal immigrants again.We have no idea who she let into Germany and once these dangerous people are in they can travel anywhere in Europe with their murderous intent.

The culture in Pakistan is so cruel, girls can only be educated up to eight years of age and it is the general belief that they should have their first period in their husbands house rather than their fathers.The women have a hard hard life, the misogyny is very extreme and it shouldn't be minimised by saying its the same in other parts of the world.There is no future for any country that treats half its population like chattels and there will be no change until men making laws to suit themselves and denying other human beings basic rights.

There is no place in Western Europe for men who want to continue to treat women like chattels and who prefer to live in self imposed ghettoes rather than embrace the norms of the country they are living in.France for example took the bull by the horns because the Muslim demands were becoming extreme in what is a secular society, The Muslims related by shooting cartoonists dead and by gunning down people enjoying a concert.

Are you basing your ideas about Muslim society on a couple of books you've read about Afghanistan?

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

you add to and compound that by demeaning their suffering. Well done, Alastair.

More arrant nonsense.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

Your opinion based on nothing. Ironically.

Based on your clearly articulated nonsense in this very thread.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

More arrant nonsense.

Their suffering is nonsense? Hmm.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

Their suffering is nonsense? Hmm.

If that's the level of your written comprehension, the nature of your misunderstandings become clearer.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

Based on your clearly articulated nonsense in this very thread.

Yet you can't articulate what it is. Other than claiming Islamic societies are no more misogynistic then non Islamic ones and talking about the oppressed women in them is nonsense.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

Yet you can't articulate what it is. Other than claiming Islamic societies are no more misogynistic then non Islamic ones and talking about the oppressed women in them is nonsense.

See above.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

If that's the level of your written comprehension, the nature of your misunderstandings become clearer.

I did ask for clarity but you prefer to offer derisive remarks, so what can you expect. This thread is becoming clogged with our over and back comments so I'll drop it.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

Are you basing your ideas about Muslim society on a couple of books you've read about Afghanistan?

Was Mary wrong? Please explain what she got wrong?

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

I did ask for clarity

No you didn't. But why start being honest now?

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

Was Mary wrong? Please explain what she got wrong?

She's made some wild claims about women being allowed access to education in Pakistan. I'd like to hear her source for these claims. It's up to her to support her points. Not me.

rgossip30

alastair wrote: »

No you didn't. But why start being honest now?

Your posts are boring zzzzz .

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

No you didn't. But why start being honest now?

I asked which of my comments you were taking issue with and for clarity r.e the classes. I've been entirely honest throughout, why wouldn't anyone be honest in their opinions and in stating facts that were used in a famous rape trial?.. but you wouldn't realise that, defender of liars like Ibrahim Halawa that you are.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

She's made some wild claims about women being allowed access to education in Pakistan. I'd like to hear her source for these claims. It's up to her to support her points. Not me.

Fair enough, at least you specified.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

I asked which of my comments you were taking issue with and for clarity r.e the classes. I've been entirely honest throughout, why wouldn't anyone be honest in their opinions and in stating facts that were used in a famous rape trial?.. but you wouldn't realise that, defender of liars like Ibrahim Halawa that you are.

Ah - the mask slips further.

Widdershins

bubblypop wrote: »

I hate to tell you this, but there are potential rapists everywhere!!!
Anyone can rape and then they can rape and rape again.....

Says a lot for the Gardai.

Mary63

http://nation.com.pk/lahore/21-Feb-2015/women-education-in-pakistan

If you are actually totally ignorant of the plight of women in Afghanistan you really should educate yourself Brianh.

The vast majority of women in Pakistan have no life, they endure an existence.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24379018