Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

Ah - the mask slips further.

Are you quoting from a ''witty phrasebook'' or something?

Widdershins

Mary63 wrote: »

http://nation.com.pk/lahore/21-Feb-2015/women-education-in-pakistan

If you are actually totally ignorant of the plight of women in Afghanistan you really should educate yourself Brianh.

The vast majority of women in Pakistan have no life, they endure an existence.

The fact that they-Brian and others- do not already know these things but at the same time they consider themselves qualified to refute it when others mention it, is worrying.

Widdershins

alastair wrote: »

Ah - the mask slips further.

I'm actually looking forward to the next one.

alastair

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm actually looking forward to the next one.

On to ignore you go.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

Says a lot for the Gardai.

Do you think the gardai are psychic?
It's not minority report ya know!

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

I agree, we are lucky to live in this country.
We have laws here, if someone breaks them they are prosecuted.
Ignorance Of The law is no defence, so even if it's 'OK' to rape women in other countries, it's not here.

But why bring in people who come from a culture which has been proven time and again to be shown to condone second class treatment of women and actually more often than not punishes the girls and women who are raped.

Seriously I just don't get some people.

Claiming they will be prosecuted after the fact is adopting the Cologne mayors views.

Women, girls and indeed young boys who have sexually assaulted and raped by migrants are just it appears collateral damage to some people.
And shure we will prosecute if anything happens.
Well maybe we will ignore it as in Cologne/Swedish concert and shure even if people are prosecuted the victims may be the ones blamed because they didn't fight enough or didn't scream in the rapists own language to let them know they didn't want to be raped to help the rapist alleviate their sexual emergency.

Widdershins

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you think the gardai are psychic?
It's not minority report ya know!

Rare...and rape and rape again? They shouldn't need psychic powers after the first time.

It was just a joke, by the way. No harm meant.

alastair

jmayo wrote: »

Claiming they will be prosecuted after the fact is adopting the Cologne mayors views.

And the basic civil rights that apply across the world. Kinda bizarre notion to sanction people for something they haven't actually done.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

http://nation.com.pk/lahore/21-Feb-2015/women-education-in-pakistan

If you are actually totally ignorant of the plight of women in Afghanistan you really should educate yourself Brianh.

I'm entirely cognisant of the plight of women in Afghanistan. What makes you think I am not.

The vast majority of women in Pakistan have no life, they endure an existence.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24379018

Are women allowed secondary school education? You said ealier they weren't . That poor girl was shot by the Taliban , an insurgent group in Pakistan. It doesn't mean women in Pakistan can't go to school. Far from it.

I think the plight of women in some Muslim countries is terrible. But I'd like to keep you honest on your wild claims.

Brian, no h

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

And the basic civil rights that apply across the world. Kinda bizarre notion to sanction people for something they haven't actually done.

The old saying prevention is better than cure springs to mind.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

The old saying prevention is better than cure springs to mind.

It does? How exactly would you see that playing out?

Brian?

gitzy16v wrote: »

The old saying prevention is better than cure springs to mind.

Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

It does? How exactly would you see that playing out?

I just think we would be better off preventing the kinds of stuff that happened in EUR from happening here.
Not blindly heading down the same road and having a New year's cologne or Swedish concert sexual assaults here in Ireland.
We have a chance to do it different,do it better.
There are far more deserving of our charity than the Calais migrants,camps in Lebanon or Jordan for starters.

gitzy16v

Brian? wrote: »

Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

Have you a problem with my post...

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

When talking about preventing people like ISIS becoming an issue, how would you like them described? A gift to humanity? So nice of you to think of their feelings.

enricoh

Brian? wrote: »

Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

Well poland, Hungary etc have decided that they can do without the warm fuzzy feeling that these migrants bring and have said they are taking none.
Let's see how these countries get on with
No go areas
Grooming teenage girls
Rapes and sexual assaults increasing
Terror attacks etc etc
Compared to Germany n Sweden who were falling over themselves to take them in. I wonder which countries we'll be hearing about in the news in years to come regarding the above.
Yeah, your right Brian, it's too hard to call!

Brian?

gitzy16v wrote: »

Have you a problem with my post...

You compared people to a disease.

gitzy16v

Brian? wrote: »

You compared people to a disease.

No I didn't,I said the old saying prevention is better than cure came to mind.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

I just think we would be better off preventing the kinds of stuff that happened in EUR from happening here.

By doing what?

gitzy16v wrote: »

Not blindly heading down the same road and having a New year's cologne or Swedish concert sexual assaults here in Ireland.

You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?

Over last weekend, more than 50 cases of sexual assault were reported across two Swedish festivals. At one – Bravalla – five women said they had been raped and another 12 reported sexual assault, while at the other – Putte i Parken – there were a further 35 reports of assault, the youngest from a girl aged 12. In a statement on the Värmland regional police’s website, the Putte i Parken assaults were attributed to “foreign young men”. “There is no doubt,” the statement said plainly, “about who takes these liberties”.

Except it turned out that there was doubt. Within a few hours the statement had been taken down.

The police later admitted that only two of the seven men or boys arrested for the Putte i Parken incidents were from HVB homes – residential homes for young people, often refugees without parents. There’s even less evidence to suggest the rapes at Bravalla were carried out by immigrants – but the two were instantly lumped together. “The wording was unfortunate,” read a second statement, “and we will take that to heart.”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous

gitzy16v wrote: »

We have a chance to do it different,do it better.
There are far more deserving of our charity than the Calais migrants,camps in Lebanon or Jordan for starters.

I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

By doing what?


You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?


https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous


I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You show me where I said "they'll rape us all"
I'm on record saying I've no problem with the refugees coming into Ballaghdreen for example.
It's the migrants in Calais I've the problem with.
Genuine refugees are welcome,Calais fraudsters are not.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

By doing what?


You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?


https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous


I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Is that the same concert as the we are sthlm one?

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

You show me where I said "they'll rape us all"

Never said you did, but it's clear that this is the scaremongering at play in this thread.

gitzy16v wrote: »

I'm on record saying I've no problem with the refugees coming into Ballaghdreen for example.

Good for you. Glad to hear it.

gitzy16v wrote: »

It's the migrants in Calais I've the problem with.
Genuine refugees are welcome,Calais fraudsters are not.

Who suggested that the people in Calais were fraudsters? You're aware that 'genuine refugees' can only be determined after they have had their claim for asylum assessed. So each and every asylum seeker that come to this country is not 'genuine' until they are actually granted asylum or protection here. Plenty of those people at Calais have subsequently been given refugee status.

Brian?

gitzy16v wrote: »

No I didn't,I said the old saying prevention is better than cure came to mind.

And by doing so, your compared refugees to a disease. It's really that simple.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

Who suggested that the people in Calais were fraudsters? You're aware that 'genuine refugees' can only be determined after they have had their claim for asylum assessed. So each and every asylum seeker that come to this country is not 'genuine' until they are actually granted asylum or protection here. Plenty of those people at Calais have subsequently been given refugee status.

Yes,I am aware...how about "genuine asylum seekers" instead.
Ill take a wild guess that you knew exactly what I meant by genuine refugees.
As for fraudsters in Calais heres the latest one
http://extra.ie/news/real-life/married-calais-volunteer-cheated-husband-refugee
He lied,said he was Syrain.
You know quite well there are plenty more like that.

gitzy16v

Brian? wrote: »

And by doing so, your compared refugees to a disease. It's really that simple.

Maybe in your mind it is.

Mary63

The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

Yes,I am aware...how about "genuine asylum seekers" instead.

What evidence have you that the people at Calais are not "genuine asylum seekers" then?

gitzy16v

The fact they are in Calais in the first place.
France is not a warzone the last time I checked.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529

I thought we were engaging on the plight of women in Pakistan.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

Is it illegal aliens, immigrants, asylum seekers or refugees that you have the problem with Mary?
Or so you believe all countries should stay pure?

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529

You do realise that refugees or asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants?They're being allowed legal access to a country.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

The fact they are in Calais in the first place.
France is not a warzone the last time I checked.

Nor is Jordan - but you're happy to take in refugees from there? Not very consistent tbh.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

Nor is Jordan - but you're happy to take in refugees from there? Not very consistent tbh.

Dont be silly Jordan borders Syria,France quite simply doesn't.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

Dont be silly Jordan borders Syria,France quite simply doesn't.

I'm clear on the geography. Jordan isn't a warzone. Nor is France. So what exactly is your problem if it's nothing to do with warzones?
Has it escaped your notice that Ireland doesn't share a border with any state that we accept asylum claims from?

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

I'm clear on the geography. Jordan isn't a warzone. Nor is France. So what exactly is your problem if it's nothing to do with warzones?
Has it escaped your notice that Ireland doesn't share a border with any state that we accept asylum claims from?

Im clear on geography also.
My problem is with young men causing trouble in Calais being prioritised over people in camps neighbouring the warzones.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

Im clear on geography also.
My problem is with young men causing trouble in Calais being prioritised over people in camps neighbouring the warzones.

No - you said that their presence in Calais delegitimised their refugee status. What leads you to believe such a thing? I'm trying to tease out your logic.

The minors in Calais coming to Ireland are not being prioritised over others - since we have committed to take greater numbers of refugees from other camps.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

No - you said that their presence in Calais delegitimised their refugee status. What leads you to believe such a thing? I'm trying to tease out your logic.

The minors in Calais coming to Ireland are not being prioritised over others - since we have committed to take greater numbers of refugees from other camps.

They travelled through plenty of safe countries on they're way to set up an illegal settlement,not claiming asylum in any of them,waiting to illegally enter the U.K.

Mary63

What are you getting at Alastair.Anyone in France is no longer fleeing from a war zone so they are not refugees.They are people in a safe country so thats where they should stay while the host country decides what to do with them.The host country grants them asylum or they deport them, why have you a problem understanding this.

I still don't know why we have to take these Calais men no matter what age they are, why didn't Zappone say to France, its your problem and you should have dismantled that jungle five years ago.Why did herself and Frances Fitzgerald even go to France, have they not enough problems here to be sorting out.

The good thing about Ireland though is the close proximity to the UK so hopefully these Calais people will just slip across the border and become the UKS problem.I really hope the contracts Zappone has signed to house, clothe, feed and educate these people can be cancelled if this happens.Zappone would be better off just buying them flights to the UK and get on with the important job she was elected to do, i.e. look after the interests of Irish children.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

They travelled through plenty of safe countries on they're way to set up an illegal settlement,not claiming asylum in any of them,waiting to illegally enter the U.K.

They don't have any requirement to make their claim in a first safe country they travel through. They entered all the other countries illegally too - why the fixation with entering the UK illegally?

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

They don't have any requirement to make their claim in a first safe country they travel through. They entered all the other countries illegally too - why the fixation with entering the UK illegally?

I dont know,you would have to ask the young men who set up an illegal settlement right next to the port of Calais.

alastair

Mary63 wrote: »

What are you getting at Alastair.Anyone in France is no longer fleeing from a war zone so they are not refugees.They are people in a safe country so thats where they should stay while the host country decides what to do with them.The host country grants them asylum or they deport them, why have you a problem understanding this.

It's not me with the difficulty understanding. The asylum seekers are entitled to make their asylum application wherever they want - that state can refer them to a different state if they have evidence that they could have made a safe application there, but there's a straightforward problem with applications in France - they're demonstrably not providing a safe and secure environment for asylum applications - they haven't been able to provide basic shelter for thousands of migrants. Every 'legitimate' refugee in this state has had to transit safe states in order to get here - and yet that's not proven to be a legal impediment to attaining asylum status. The minors in question are not being deported by France - the French are liaising with the Irish government on a mutually agreed basis.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

I dont know,you would have to ask the young men who set up an illegal settlement right next to the port of Calais.

I'm not asking about their intent - it's clear they want to enter the UK. I'm asking why you are fixated on the illegality of their entering the UK rather than any other state they've already entered illegally? The illegal/irregular entry into any state for the purposes of seeking asylum, is of course, a penalty-free act under international law.

Widdershins

If the rape statistics someone claimed are actually Conviction statistics then they need to realise that's not representative. For numerous reasons many rapists aren't convicted..or even caught.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

I'm not asking about their intent - it's clear they want to enter the UK. I'm asking why you are fixated on the illegality of their entering the UK rather than any other state they've already entered illegally? The illegal/irregular entry into any state for the purposes of seeking asylum, is of course, a penalty-free act under international law.

Honest answer....because the hooligans are ripping the curtains on my truck,smashing my mirrors and generally making my job more difficult with they way they carry on in Calais.
If they are so needy,vulnerable and looking for help,why are they doing everything to evade the authorities,why are they not doing things the way its supposed to be done.
Whats all the sneaking around for?
And why after the jungle was razed are they starting to arrive back?

Mary63

If that was the case the UK authorities would have had to keep the ones that slipped in.The UK has been firing them back across to France for the last number of years.Isnt part of the Dublin convention the rule that they first country they land in has to take them.Why are the poor Greeks and italian having to take what the Irish navy is bringing to them on a daily basis.What the hell are our Irish navy doing in this drop off nonsense anyway,if they have nothing better to be doing we should be asking ourselves what we have a navy for.

I can't understand either actually why France put up with the economic migrants for so long.Why didn't they let them make their way to Dover and then its Britains problem to deal with the hordes.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

Honest answer....because the hooligans are ripping the curtains on my truck,smashing my mirrors and generally making my job more difficult with they way they carry on in Calais.

Wouldn't the transfer of the Calais migrants make your life less difficult? Leaving them all in limbo in Calais certainly isn't going to help you, is it?

alastair

Mary63 wrote: »

If that was the case the UK authorities would have had to keep the ones that slipped in.

Nope - you're still not getting it. An asylum claim is no guarantee of a successful outcome.

gitzy16v

alastair wrote: »

Wouldn't the transfer of the Calais migrants make your life less difficult? Leaving them all in limbo in Calais certainly isn't going to help you, is it?

I edited my post to include the fact that they are all arriving back after it has been cleared.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

I edited my post to include the fact that they are all arriving back after it has been cleared.

You're expecting the 20 / 200 coming here to make their way back to Calais?