Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Widdershins

Mary63 wrote: »

While on the subject of men, how come women can comment on Donald Trumps weight, his hair, his liking for spray tan, his marriage, his children and no one objects.If a man was to comment on Theresa Mays hair or her figure or her marriage the feminists would implode.

Totally agree on that. Body shaming is fine if you don't like the person and they're unpopular.... and male.

Except it is apparently fine to drop those wonky principles and go ahead and attack May because she's a Tory. From what I can tell.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

The truth.

Advocated animal cruelty (spraying lemon water in cats face) and inhumane actions (leave them afloat in the sea in unseaworthy vessels)

How is that stretching the truth?

Timberrrrrrrr

b_mac2 wrote: »

Er hat diese Gewohnheit.

:rolleyes:

Brian?

alastair wrote: »

That state of chaos allows an uncontrolled people smuggling operation to thrive. That's the reason they go there, and have done so since the state fell into chaos (long before any EU naval monitoring). The Spanish navy also bring rescued migrants to Spain, but there's a much smaller number attempting the crossing from Morocco, as there's greater policing of smuggling there.



We already know that. Drowning deaths have increased since the ending of the scaling back from the more comprehensive Mare Nostrum naval programme. Removing operation Triton would just exasperate an already terrible situation.

What he said.

Widdershins

Don't throw lemon juice or anything in it's face. I take it you're feeding it, because cats do not hang around where there's nothing to eat. So if you really don't want it around, don't leave out food. Although I would feed it, personally.

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Advocated animal cruelty (spraying lemon water in cats face) and inhumane actions (leave them afloat in the sea in unseaworthy vessels)

How is that stretching the truth?

Wrong,she suggested something that works for getting rid of stray cats...didn't advocate it.

Mary also said..If they are rapists like in cologne leave them there,I mean most of the migrants that have committed serious crime,this is how they arrived.

gitzy16v

Anyway pedantics is all it was,looking for a shock reaction.
Carry on.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

Wrong,she suggested something that works for getting rid of stray cats...didn't advocate it.

Stretching it a bit

Mary also said..If they are rapists like in cologne leave them there,I mean most of the migrants that have committed serious crime,this is how they arrived.

How would you know they are rapists like the ones in Cologne? Interview them while at sea? :rolleyes:

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Stretching it a bit



How would you know they are rapists like the ones in Cologne? Interview them while at sea? :rolleyes:

Like they are going to tell the truth anyway.
Stop the ferry service.
It won't be nice people will die,but in the long run less will be lives will be lost.

Stheno

gitzy16v wrote: »

Like they are going to tell the truth anyway.
Stop the ferry service.
It won't be nice people will die,but in the long run less will be lives will be lost.

How will less lives be lost in the long run?

And how many would you be ok with drowning?

gitzy16v

Stheno wrote: »

How will less lives be lost in the long run?

And how many would you be ok with drowning?

By stopping the flow of migrants before the get in a flimsy boat.

None.

Stheno

gitzy16v wrote: »

By stopping the flow of migrants before the get in a flimsy boat.

None.

When the previous rescue operation was stopped drownings didnt

People still took the chance

Mr.Micro

recedite wrote: »

Well, I very much disagree.

Would be interesting to try an experiment though. Ask President Trump to moor a couple of aircraft carriers 12 miles of the West African coast. Anyone getting to this US Navy flotilla via a rubber dinghy will be given free passage to the USA. No vetting and no questions asked. On arrival in the USA, one question is asked; "were you a victim of a war or some kind of political or religious discrimination?" When the answer is "yes" a green card is issued.

If nobody shows up in Libya following this better offer off the West African coast, we'll know the ships do have an effect.

We'll it would be fitting IMO. Since it was the meddling of the US in the region that has contributed to the desperate situation. The US wages war, and so far Europe and the World pay the bill. The US has not taken responsibility, let alone many refugees.

gitzy16v

Stheno wrote: »

When the previous rescue operation was stopped drownings didnt

People still took the chance

We didn't have a major problem with these crossings from Africa 15 years ago.
A destablised Libya is the cause.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

Like they are going to tell the truth anyway.
Stop the ferry service.
It won't be nice people will die,but in the long run less will be lives will be lost.

And I'm sure you can provide evidence to back this up?

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

We didn't have a major problem with these crossings from Africa 15 years ago.
A destablised Libya is the cause.

There wasn't war in many of those countries 15 years ago that's why

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And I'm sure you can provide evidence to back this up?

If we stop them getting in the boats in the first place there will be less dying.

Stheno

gitzy16v wrote: »

If we stop them getting in the boats in the first place there will be less dying.

Not providing the rescue service wont do that though

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

If we stop them getting in the boats in the first place there will be less dying.

How do you go about that? Sure why don't we just stop them leaving Their war torn countries then they won't even reach the sea :rolleyes:

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There wasn't war in many of those countries 15 years ago that's why

I only mentioned 1 country.
Which other north African countries are at war.
Libya was fine as far as migrants crossing goes until the US tore the country apart.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

I only mentioned 1 country.
Which other north African countries are at war.
Libya was fine as far as migrants crossing goes until the US tore the country apart.

Where are most of the migrants from?

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How do you go about that? Sure why don't we just stop them leaving Their war torn countries then they won't even reach the sea :rolleyes:

Fix the war torn country.
It's only war torn because of the West

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Where are most of the migrants from?

Nobody bloody well knows,that's the whole farce of this immigration fiasco.

Mr.Micro

Mary63 wrote: »

Im booking a flight now to the West African Coast.I will climb into a rubber dinghy if it just means getting my feet wet and then someone will pick me up and bring me to San Diego.Im suffering religious discrimination because Im Catholic and I can't get a protestant grant to send my children to private school.I need counselling because of this so as soon as I land In San Diego I want a therapist.

MR. Micro, fill a plastic bottle with water and squeeze lemon juice into it, wait till the scraggy cat gets close and then fire the lemony water into its face, it won't come back.God, have you no initiative.

I have nothing against men but I wouldn't call hordes of North Africans raping in Cologne men, if what is on the Irish Navy ship is these type of people then I would leave them in the water.That is my solution, what has the EU got to do with these people,the United States and Australia which are vast countries with plenty of room are refusing to take them in so why should Ireland which is a tiny Island take them.We have people on housing lists for ten years and no one has bought houses anywhere for them to live in.There are Syrians landing in Ballaghadereen and walking into turnkey houses that locals need, how long do they live in these houses for, will they vacate them as soon as they find work.They haven't paid a single cent in taxes and we have elderly parents living with adult disabled children and they can't even get respite care.We have children with disabilities and there are no resources or so we are being constantly told to help them, one child went to the media about his wheelchair, it was too small and he couldnt get one to fit. Some one else was on Generation FXD and he while working was on wages so low he couldn't buy an inhaler for his child.If I was a parent in this situation the thought of Zappone spending fifty million and counting on unknowns from Calais would make me blind with rage.

While on the subject of men, how come women can comment on Donald Trumps weight, his hair, his liking for spray tan, his marriage, his children and no one objects.If a man was to comment on Theresa Mays hair or her figure or her marriage the feminists would implode.

Trump is fair game as he has no morals, discipline, manners, class, and is vain,racist, bigoted, boorish etc etc.

If people turn up at the door, the problem has landed on your doorstep whether one likes it or not, as is the case of the migrants. The US should shoulder much of the problem IMO, due to its policies and actions in the Middle East over the last number of years. Maybe Trump can sort out the migrant crisis, since he us fixing everything else. Europe should send him the bill so far.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

Fix the war torn country.
It's only war torn because of the West

Something we can agree on at last.

Mary63

Feed the unwanted cat and you will have a hundred more squealing at the door tomorrow.

If its ok to throw whatever personal insults you want at Trump, e.g. his weight then don't go all moralistic when he describes a woman as fat.

That seems fair to me, if you want the high moral ground and you want women all over the world to march because Donald disrespects women then don't sink to his level.

Widdershins

Oh yeah-about that cat. There are cat rescue places in most counties who would take him/her. A.f.a.i.k they neuter them too. I think there's one called Feral Cats Ireland too. Email one of them.

ancapailldorcha

Alastair, many of your posts in this thread are well below the standard expected. Next one may result in a ban.

Mary63, your posts are becoming harder and harder to distinguish from hate speech. Any more may elicit mod action.

There are other posts here which are below the standard. Please post more constructively.

Thanks.

rgossip30

gitzy16v wrote: »

Fix the war torn country.
It's only war torn because of the West

Can you explain how the west caused the war in Syria .

gitzy16v

rgossip30 wrote: »

Can you explain how the west caused the war in Syria .

The conversation I was having was in a regards to the migrant boats coming from Libya.

And how it wasn't a major problem until after the long time regime was removed.

rgossip30

gitzy16v wrote: »

The conversation I was having was in a regards to the migrant boats coming from Libya.

And how it wasn't a major problem until after the long time regime was removed.

Most of those coming from Libya are from North/West Africa ,Somalia and Eritrea and male .
Gadaffi's son would have been a good replacement .

gitzy16v

rgossip30 wrote: »

Most of those coming from Libya are from North/West Africa ,Somalia and Eritrea and male .

Couldn't agree more.

alastair

gitzy16v wrote: »

The conversation I was having was in a regards to the migrant boats coming from Libya.

And how it wasn't a major problem until after the long time regime was removed.

Ghadaffi was ousted after a civil war in Libya, and in no small part because he opted to bomb civilian areas from jets to quell civil unrest. This led to the recognition of the opposition government-in-waiting, not just by 'the west', but by a majority UN vote, by the African Union, and by pretty much every foreign player. Western relations with the 'long term regime' were actually being normalised before Ghadaffi screwed himself with his reaction to internal dissent. Blaming the situation in Libya on foreign interference is remarkably blinkered.

recedite

In October 2010, the EU paid Gadaffi/Libya €50 million to stop African migrants passing into Europe. So in the absence of Gadaffi, there is nothing to stop the migrants congregating in Libya. Add to that the fact that the EU is sending ships to the Libyan coast to pick them up. Its a double whammy.

BTW Gadaffi did not suddenly bring about his own demise by bombing the Al Queda rebels in his own country. Western leaders had been trying to implement regime change for a long time. In 1986 the US bombed his house killing and injuring members of his family and household staff. Luckily for him, he was out at the time.
He was winning the civil war against the Islamic terrorists until Nato decided to intervene by bombing his army into submission.

Nelson Mandela was a fan of his. He was also founder of the African Union and in the process of bringing in a common currency, the gold dinar, which would have threatened the value of the US dollar as the word's only oil trading currency. He would have been very good for Africa, and Europe, had he lived.

kupus

alastair wrote: »

Ghadaffi was ousted after a civil war in Libya, and in no small part because he opted to bomb civilian areas from jets to quell civil unrest. This led to the recognition of the opposition government-in-waiting, not just by 'the west', but by a majority UN vote, by the African Union, and by pretty much every foreign player. Western relations with the 'long term regime' were actually being normalised before Ghadaffi screwed himself with his reaction to internal dissent. Blaming the situation in Libya on foreign interference is remarkably blinkered.

Ali, did you ever stop to think he was ousted because Libya was one of the richest countries in the world and all that money had to go somewhere.

Libya was in the middle of a building boom. Libyans had work. Everything was ready to make it a shining example of a country that had gone from bad times to good.

alastair

kupus wrote: »

Ali, did you ever stop to think he was ousted because Libya was one of the richest countries in the world and all that money had to go somewhere.

A theory that makes no sense whatsoever. The flow of Libyan oil, and revenues for the international oil companies were far more valuable under the Ghadaffi regime. His ousting has cost those interests dearly. If the choice in the primary reason Ghadaffi's regime fell is his violent response to internal civil unrest, or a botched conspiracy of oil interests, then there's no real competition - it's the bleeding obvious answer.

dissed doc

alastair wrote: »

Ghadaffi was ousted after a civil war in Libya, and in no small part because he opted to bomb civilian areas from jets to quell civil unrest.

The civil unrest was created by western backed groups, escalated to use NATO to bomb Gaddafi out of Libya. Gaddafi was planning a gold-backed African currency. Please see the Clinton emails for evidence, including the exchanges with her and Sarkozy.

The price we are paying now for the destruction of Libya, is that there is no longer a "wall" between Africa and Europe. Gaddafi's Libya was that wall.

Western relations with the 'long term regime' were actually being normalised before Ghadaffi screwed himself with his reaction to internal dissent. Blaming the situation in Libya on foreign interference is remarkably blinkered.

Your assertions are complete lies ("Alternative facts") and completely contrary to Hillary Clinton's emails with the leaders of other forces involved. The foreign interference is well documented by Clinton herself when she was Secretary of State; she did so to lay the groundwork for Obama to initiate US involvement.

Britain and France pushed for the NATO involvement along with the Arab League. Sarkozy's exchanges with Clinton clearly show the purpose: to undermine Gaddafi's plan to remove French influence in north Africa, to gain access to oil production, and to capture the large amount of gold that Gaddafi was using for the currency.

NATO was then used not in a humanitarian fashion for these purposes.

Civil Unrest in Libya at the time was the Weapons of Mass Destruction of Iraq a decade earlier.

let me guess: "we have solid evidence that x is causing y and that z will happen. Therefore we must act now".

X = whatever is palatable to the public. AT the time, there was a lot of good feels for "revolutions". Saying that Libya must be invaded because we need the oil, because Gaddafi is a bastard, because he has chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, keeps slaves, etc., etc., . .

References: the Clinton emails. Do your homework or go home.

The explosion of Islamic terrorism and ISIS across the ME and North Africa is precisely because of the power vacuum left when NATO removed Gaddafi. The price for that removal is all of the Islamic terrorism in Europe, and approx. €30k/year per migrant/refugee/asylum/whoever cost to the European states. Refugees are the new oil.

alastair

dissed doc wrote: »

The civil unrest was created by western backed groups

References: the Clinton emails. Do your homework or go home.

Nonsense. If you actually believe that Clinton's emails support any of this tinfoil conspiracy, then no doubt you can link to the damning evidence. I won't hold my breath.

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you think they will stop if European navy's stop rescuing their drowning 'customers' ?

I don't, I think they will keep on taking money from people determined to leave, and not giving a crap what happens to them.
At least we do something, at least we don't stand by watching thousands of people die by drowning.
And I don't mean that to be anyway argumentative, which some on here believe, I just think we should try to save those people.

If migrants know they will not get into Europe if they take a boat with no documentation and Visa then word spreads and people stop taking the boats.
How many boats are now straying into Australian waters these days.

One option is to inplement holding camps on islands and basically leave the people there before being repatriated.
Another option is to basically leave them back in Libya.
As for Turkey someone in Europe has to play hardball with Erdogan and force him to stop it on his side.

BTW can the pro side please answer these questions.
When do they see this stopping ?
How many will be too much ?
Some reports are claiming that millions from Africa/Asia want to enter Europe so do we just accept half a million to a million a year forever ?

We are supposed to be taking 4,000, no one is actually sure if that includes family reunifcation or not, because our government are like all on the pro side.
There are no firm answers to the real questions, just resorting to emotive language and labelling the other side as heartless racists and the like.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

^^^this

Some posters on here wouldn't mind seeing daily news reports of boats full of women and children capsizing and bodies washing up on the shore. They don't realise that for every boat that gets found (turned around as they advocate) another 20 get through

Bullshyte.
For a start most of the ones on board are actually young men, but don't let that little fact get in the way of a good old bit of tear jerking.

Oh and another truth is that out of the ones from Libya the vast majority are African not Syrian as of course your next claim will be.

bubblypop wrote: »

Why? Why do you prefer Spanish people to north African people?

Maybe because some of them don't tend to run people over with trucks when you may be out for the evening or blow you away when you are siting on a beach on holidays in their country.
DOH.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There wasn't war in many of those countries 15 years ago that's why

Ehh check your history of Africa.
There have been on going wars and internal struggles in Chad, Sudan, Ethipia, Algeria, Mali, Niger, Mauritania, Nigeria, Western Sahara, etc for decades.
I am surprised the religion of peace hasn't prevailed.

Gaddafi stopped the flow and EU wasn't led by enuchs and quislings who were willing to throw their own popualtions under the bus or sorry was that truck. :rolleyes:

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Maybe because some of them don't tend to run people over with trucks when you may be out for the evening or blow you away when you are siting on a beach on holidays in their country.
DOH.
:

Some of them don't? Some of who, Spanish men don't?
What exactly are ya trying to say?

kupus

alastair wrote: »

A theory that makes no sense whatsoever. The flow of Libyan oil, and revenues for the international oil companies were far more valuable under the Ghadaffi regime.

I deleted about 3 paragraphs here.
whats the point?
you say right I say left. you say left i say right.

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

Some of them don't? Some of who, Spanish men don't?
What exactly are ya trying to say?

You know damn well what I mean.

And just to spell it out alittle more for you.
Care to tell us how many Spanish people living in France have driven a truck down a promendade killing innocent people in the last few years, nay make that decades.
And then remind us how many Spaniards living in Germany have hijacked trucks murdering it's driver and then drove it into a Christmas market to kill inocent people ?

And after you have tried to twist those facts, perhaps you can try figure out how to downplay fact that there have been no mass killings of tourists on Spanish beaches recently whereas there has on a beach in North Africa.
Oh and just to bring it home to you an Irish lady was one of the victims that day.
We are not immune to muslim fundamentalism.

But we are not immune to any crime committed by any nationality.
How many Irish people have killed English people?
And how many refugees have committed any of these crimes?

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

But we are not immune to any crime committed by any nationality.
How many Irish people have killed English people?
And how many refugees have committed any of these crimes?

Ah FFS.
Why not just answer the questions ?
How many Spaniards have done what some North Africans have done on European soil in the last year ?

You asked Mary why she rathered Spaniards than North Africans, I gave a possible answer, but you of course chose to do the usual eel wriggling to divert and went off into the old Whataboutery.

Whataboutery would not have saved you on the promenade on Nice, nor would it have saved you in Berlin.

BTW the Tunisian who killed the innocent people in Berlin came to Europe seeking ayslum.
Of course you can go off an argue how different an asylum seeker is to a refugee.

Oh and while you are fooking at it, why not argue how a 19 year old is a minor as he claimed when he arrived in Italy.

gitzy16v

Mary63 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/zappone-seeks-urgent-review-of-pre-clearance-at-irish-airports-1.2956071

I'd rather p1ss off,anybody else except the Americans...
They got the nukes,economically and militarily.
Time to get serious now,
I wonder what enda will do.

Mary63

Enda will get himself out to Washington if he knows whats good for him.Why should we alienate the Americans for the sake of citizens from Eitrea, Yemen, Somalia, what are these countries ever going to do for us.

It isn't possible for the whole of Africa to live in Europe or in the United States or in Australia.They will destabilise all these countries if they arrive in uncontrollable numbers.If we insult the President of the United States he won't forget it and nor will the American people.Dont think for one minute that the crowds of people protesting in the airports are accurately reflecting what most Americans think.Donald Trump was democratically elected with a mandate to deal with the immigrant issue and there is huge support for what he is doing.Theresa May knows the vast majority of the British people want something done about immigration too so she can't criticise Trump either.Ditto the French, the Germans, the Dutch and the Swedes, they would all like Muslim numbers controlled too and if Donald Trump manages to implement a workable immigrant policy other countries will follow suit.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Ah FFS.
Why not just answer the questions ?
How many Spaniards have done what some North Africans have done on European soil in the last year ?

You asked Mary why she rathered Spaniards than North Africans, I gave a possible answer, but you of course chose to do the usual eel wriggling to divert and went off into the old Whataboutery.

Whataboutery would not have saved you on the promenade on Nice, nor would it have saved you in Berlin.

BTW the Tunisian who killed the innocent people in Berlin came to Europe seeking ayslum.
Of course you can go off an argue how different an asylum seeker is to a refugee.

Oh and while you are fooking at it, why not argue how a 19 year old is a minor as he claimed when he arrived in Italy.

But it's ridiculous to suggest that because some North African men committed crime, that we should ban ALL North African men.
It doesn't make sense to me at all that anyone can judge millions of people by the actions of a handful.
I judge people on their actions, not the actions of others.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But it's ridiculous to suggest that because some North African men committed crime, that we should ban ALL North African men.
It doesn't make sense to me at all that anyone can judge millions of people by the actions of a handful.
I judge people on their actions, not the actions of others.

How do you suggest we identify those who are coming here with the express intention of committing crimes?

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

Don't be so ridiculous Bubblepop, I can go to Spain and I won't be harassed by gangs of men from North Africa,of course I prefer the Spaniards so stop trying to force me into a corner with silly questions.I wouldn't go to Tunisia or Morocco on holidays because there is no law in these countries and I would be afraid to go for a walk on the beach.

LOL! Clearly you haven't been on a beach in Spain for many years!
The fact you think there is no law in Tunisia or Morocco is just embarrassing for you. You really don't need to be afraid, I have been to Morocco solo, and haven't been raped or murdered yet!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you suggest we identify those who are coming here with the express intention of committing crimes?

You can't identify people who are intending on committing crime!!!
Luckily in this country we wait till people actually commit a crime before punishing them.