Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

biko

Migrants are very likely to claim to be children to get preferential treatment, not surprising at all.
Age tests show many children to be well above the 18yo limit

Two thirds of tested migrants in Finland and Denmark were above the age they claimed.

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Right. So, you're saying Zappone is basically inviting 200 people into this Country - and they've accepted that invitation - despite having refused to apply for asylum in France - based on having no legal status, whatsoever?

They're asylum seekers. We've been told this already. They don't have any legal status beyond that.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because they are already legally entitled to be classed as "programme refugees", since they came here by way of an invitation by the Minister.

And yet Zappone has made clear that their legal status has not been determined.

Deleted User wrote: »

If Zappone is negotiating on their behalf - it is because she wants to improve the conditions. Family re-unification is part and parcel of the rights they already have as programme refugee minors.

Agreed. But those would be rights of no use to them as they cannot seek parental reunification once they turn 18, and they can only seek reunification with their current spouses and children otherwise. It's fairly unlikely these minors will have spouses and children.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

They're asylum seekers. We've been told this already. They don't have any legal status beyond that.



And yet Zappone has made clear that their legal status has not been determined.


Agreed. But those would be rights of no use to them as they cannot seek parental reunification once they turn 18, and they can only seek reunification with their current spouses and children otherwise. It's fairly unlikely these minors will have spouses and children.

Link, please.

rgossip30

alastair wrote: »

There's no evidence that they're different to any other unaccompanied minors already in the system.

At present

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Link, please.

Túsla and my department have been working very hard to first of agree on the legal status they will have when they come and secondly then the kind of supports they will require, especially accomodation.

So - officially they do not have a determined status. That by default means they are Asylum Seekers.

alastair

rgossip30 wrote: »

At present

as opposed to...?

alastair

alastair wrote: »

Agreed. But those would be rights of no use to them as they cannot seek parental reunification once they turn 18, and they can only seek reunification with their current spouses and children otherwise. It's fairly unlikely these minors will have spouses and children.

If they are already programme refugees, why would they wait until they're 18 to seek parental reunification?

They are coming at the invitation of the Minister. They have already been assessed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/source-of-11m-to-relocate-40-minors-from-calais-not-identified-1.2932332

Department of Children officials are due to travel to France next week to assess around 20 young people, and identify which ones wish to come to Ireland. Ms Zappone said her understanding was they were all male and all aged 16 or 17.

And here's the intention regarding family reunification:


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-14-12-2016-84

In announcing the Programme, the Government recognised the importance of addressing the position of unaccompanied children. The relocation of unaccompanied minors is a complex and sensitive process, involving various aspects of European and domestic law, and any actions taken in relation to this vulnerable group must always have the principle of the best interests of the child and the prospect of family reunification at their centre. Ireland is committed to relocating unaccompanied minors and this has been clearly demonstrated by the recent Government decision to offer to relocate up to 200 unaccompanied minors, formerly resident in the migrant camp at Calais, to Ireland.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

So - officially they do not have a determined status. That by default means they are Asylum Seekers.

Túsla and my department have been working very hard to first of agree on the legal status they will have when they come and secondly then the kind of supports they will require, especially accomodation.

What? Túsla don't have anything to do with determining refugee status.

We've already agreed that under existing legislation, these guys are already programme refugees. Túsla can't change that, only assess their needs.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

Because if there was any success of fast-tracking applications, you'd have heard about it from ORAC. The clearance rates indicated in their monthly reports haven't really shifted in the last year.

http://www.orac.ie/website/orac/oracwebsite.nsf/page/orac-stats_16-en

Not ORAC, here:

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR15000463

Minister Fitzgerald further announced that the Government has agreed to establish a network of Emergency Reception and Orientation Centres established for the initial acceptance and processing of those in need of international protection who are accepted into Ireland under the EU Programmes. Assessments and decisions on refugee status will be made in be in the Centres, within weeks.

Plenty of time to apply for family re-unification, then.

rgossip30

alastair wrote: »

as opposed to...?

I know you probably a lovely fella but you have to get used to being wrong .
A retraction of your claim that unaccompanied minors will not likely get family reunification is expected.
I thought you would be in favor of these children getting family reunification as you support refugees .
You are more interested it seems in winning an argument than any support of these unfortunates..

johnnyskeleton

rgossip30 wrote: »

I know you probably a lovely fella but you have to get used to being wrong .
A retraction of your claim that unaccompanied minors will not likely get family reunification is expected.
I thought you would be in favor of these children getting family reunification as you support refugees .
You are more interested it seems in winning an argument than any support of these unfortunates..

Mod note:

rgossip30 banned for ignoring mod instruction. Please don't reply to his posts for the next week.

troll_a_roll

I think no one knows for certain what's happening as the government often acts in secret.

I don't think that Ireland should accept these children.

I'm hoping that Trumps election will waken people up to the fact that it is ok to put yourself first, to put your family first, and to put your country first. Only after that must you go out to help others.

Hexen

troll_a_roll wrote: »

I think no one knows for certain what's happening as the government often acts in secret.

I don't think that Ireland should accept these children.

I'm hoping that Trumps election will waken people up to the fact that it is ok to put yourself first, to put your family first, and to put your country first. Only after that must you go out to help others.

As of 2015, there were some 90,000 unaccompanied minors among registered asylum seekers in Europe. In that year, about 0.04 per cent of this population of minors (35) had applied for asylum in Ireland. In 2016 (first 11 months), the number of unaccompanied minors applying for asylum was 112 (19 of which were found to be over 18 yrs or not asylum seekers). Who has responsibility for these children?

troll_a_roll

Their parents or guardians perhaps?

There's an orphan in Brazil. Am I responsible for that child?

johnp001

UK reducing number of child refugees to be accepted.

Independent UK wrote:

Government backtracks on pledge to take child refugees
Only 350 unaccompanied child refugees will be allowed to settle in the UK, thousands short of numbers previously indicated

Hours before the final vote on the triggering of Article 50 the government quietly announced it would allow just 350 unaccompanied Syrian children to come to the UK, thousands short of the figure suggested by government sources last year.
More...

troll_a_roll

I wonder why the UK government have stopped taking the children.

Is it because of the public backlash over the ages of the children?
I wouldn't have thought so because the government should have always known that taking in immigrants was not going to be popular. Having said that, society is now very polarised and many people do want the UK to take in loads of children.

The UK cannot keep everyone happy here. It's similar to abortion in Ireland.


Have the UK given a reason for stopping taking the children?


Personally I don't expect multiculturalism to work based on experiences elsewhere. I think it's a smart move by the UK but it'll make no difference as their society is already multicultural.

Ireland could yet save itself from the horrors of multiculturalism but I feel it won't. Sweden no. 2.

I don't blame the immigrants, I blame the Irish people calling for mass immigration, and voting for mass immigration.

oscarBravo

troll_a_roll wrote: »

Ireland could yet save itself from the horrors of multiculturalism but I feel it won't. Sweden no. 2.

I find it highly entertaining when people warn us about the "dangers" of multiculturalism by pointing to the post-apocalyptic hellscape that is Sweden.

I can't help but wonder: have any of them ever been to Sweden? Because it's a wonderful country.

recedite

troll_a_roll wrote: »

I wonder why the UK government have stopped taking the children.

They said because it has only been encouraging even more teenagers to travel from Africa to Calais.

Impeccable logic, and it applies equally to all other ages of migrant too.

troll_a_roll

The apocalyspe hasn't yet happened in Sweden.

So it's not yet post-apocalyptic.

Give it time. We all saw Iran and Afghanistan in the 1960s. The pace of change has accelerated since then.

Hexen

troll_a_roll wrote: »

Their parents or guardians perhaps?

There's an orphan in Brazil. Am I responsible for that child?

Do you understand the concept of 'unaccompanied minor' in immigration law? These children are not in Brazil, they're in the EU, a political and economic union which Ireland is a member of.

recedite

List of grenade attacks in Sweden

Malmo, the most "multicultural" city in Sweden, and perhaps in Northern Europe, features prominently.
Its a far cry from the good old days of Abba

Hexen

troll_a_roll wrote: »

The apocalyspe hasn't yet happened in Sweden.

So it's not yet post-apocalyptic.

Give it time. We all saw Iran and Afghanistan in the 1960s. The pace of change has accelerated since then.

The reformist Mohammad Mossadegh was elected as Prime Minister of Iran in 1951. Taken out by an Anglo-American coup in 1953. Ruled by pro-West kleptocratic Shah until 1979 revolution.

The Marxist-Leninist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan seized power in 1978. The embarked on a programme of radical reform (secularisation, land reform, equal rights for women) together with political repression. Instability led to intervention and occupation by USSR in 1979. Then the US, under Carter and then Reagan, started arming the Mujahideen.

I fail to see the parallels with Sweden.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

List of grenade attacks in Sweden

Malmo, the most "multicultural" city in Sweden, and perhaps in Northern Europe, features prominently.
Its a far cry from the good old days of Abba

That's a shocking list. Malmo sounds more like a warzone than a peacetime European city.

gitzy16v

recedite wrote: »

List of grenade attacks in Sweden

Malmo, the most "multicultural" city in Sweden, and perhaps in Northern Europe, features prominently.
Its a far cry from the good old days of Abba

Where did all the grenades come from?:eek:

Thats shocking,I heard of a few in the news but when its a list like that Its quite sobering.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

List of grenade attacks in Sweden

Malmo, the most "multicultural" city in Sweden, and perhaps in Northern Europe, features prominently.
Its a far cry from the good old days of Abba

Many attacks are related to organised crime, and extortion of restaurants and businesses.[6] According to Swedish police, the use of hand grenades in crime is unprecedented in all comparable European and non-European countries, and the only countries with similar characteristics are those with warlike conditions.[7] Malmö police have consequently warned about undetonated grenades in the city.[8][9]

Dublin gets pipe bombs because our own scrotes don't have access to grenades

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Dublin gets pipe bombs because our own scrotes don't have access to grenades

Have you a link to these pipe bomb attacks in Dublin...it would be good for a comparison.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

Have you a link to these pipe bomb attacks in Dublin...it would be good for a comparison.

I'm at a rugby match at the moment so not searching for stats in Dublin pipe bombs but more interested in what organised crime grenade attacks In malmo have to do with child fefugees? Is anyone trying to link attacks by organised crime to these refugees?

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

List of grenade attacks in Sweden

I'm guessing that was intended as a rebuttal to the idea that Sweden is a lovely country.

Malmo, the most "multicultural" city in Sweden, and perhaps in Northern Europe, features prominently.

What's your point?

Are you trying to claim a causal relationship between multiculturalism and grenade attacks? Because, if so, you could produce some actual evidence.

Or are you pointing out an apparent correlation, in the hope that people will draw the causative conclusion that you want them to, without explicitly committing that heinous logical fallacy yourself?

Widdershins

That's unreal. I had a quick look into it and I'm shocked by the rate of attacks in Malmo. I had no idea it was such a commonplace problem there.

recedite

gitzy16v wrote: »

Where did all the grenades come from?:eek:

Imported, and its not the native Swedes that are chucking them.

oscarBravo wrote: »

I find it highly entertaining when people warn us about the "dangers" of multiculturalism by pointing to the post-apocalyptic hellscape that is Sweden.
I can't help but wonder: have any of them ever been to Sweden? Because it's a wonderful country.

Malmo (and Sweden) is like the proverbial Curates Egg, its "wonderful in parts" but those parts are not the multicultural parts.
Draw your own conclusions.

ancapailldorcha

recedite wrote: »

Malmo (and Sweden) is like the proverbial Curates Egg, its "wonderful in parts" but those parts are not the multicultural parts.
Draw your own conclusions.

Does the same apply to Stockholm? Uppsala?

recedite

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Does the same apply to Stockholm? Uppsala?

Both feature in the grenade attack list, but not as frequently as Malmo.

Timberrrrrrrr

recedite wrote: »

Imported, and its not the native Swedes that are chucking them.

Malmo (and Sweden) is like the proverbial Curates Egg, its "wonderful in parts" but those parts are not the multicultural parts.
Draw your own conclusions.

Care to provide evidence as to who is doing these grenade attacks because all your previous link says Is that the attacks are linked to organised crime.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

Both feature in the grenade attack list, but not as frequently as Malmo.

What have the grenade attacks got to do with immigration?

recedite

The exact ethnicity of perpetrators (if that's what you want to know) is not usually released to the public.
Swedish police are afraid of being called racists.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

The exact ethnicity of perpetrators (if that's what you want to know) is not usually released to the public.
Swedish police are afraid of being called racists.

Which is, imo, ridiculous.

The truth cannot be racist.

If I said, the majority of crimes are perpetrated by Nationality X, then that might be perceived to be racist. If it is a fact, though, it is not racist.

If I say, "A" percentage of Nationality X has been found guilty of theft, "B" percentage of Nationality "Y", and "C" percentage of Nationality "Z", then that is not racist. That is factual reporting. I cannot see how there could be any perception of racism.

The Swedes have forced their police force into a ridiculously "politically correct" position, imo.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

The exact ethnicity of perpetrators (if that's what you want to know) is not usually released to the public.
Swedish police are afraid of being called racists.

so how do you know if the grenade attacks are anything to do with immigrants?

long range shooter

Brian? wrote: »

so how do you know if the grenade attacks are anything to do with immigrants?

Because most of the criminal gangs in Swedens no go zones are immigrants.

Brian?

long range shooter wrote: »

Because most of the criminal gangs in Swedens no go zones are immigrants.

Have you some proof of that?

Edit: google the Great Nordic Biker war. Plenty of guns, grenades and anti tank missiles used by biker gangs fighting it out over turf.

Timberrrrrrrr

long range shooter wrote: »

Because most of the criminal gangs in Swedens no go zones are immigrants.

You've obviously never been to Sweden.

long range shooter

Brian? wrote: »

Have you some proof of that?

Edit: google the Great Nordic Biker war. Plenty of guns, grenades and anti tank missiles used by biker gangs fighting it out over turf.

Swedish police have made their own report regarding the no go zones and criminal gangs are part of it,all immigrants.

https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Rapporter-och-publikationer/Ovriga-rapporter/Publicerat-ovriga-rapporter/Utsatta-omraden/

Also the statiistic bureau made a report last year regarding rapes in sweden,there was ONLY 480000 cases of sexual crimes in one year,,yes believe it or not.And this have only increased in the last last 3 years,when mass immigration started in Sweden.Of those 480000 sex crimes,140000 was rapes,all done by strangers,as in someone they didnt know from before.

http://www.bt.se/sverige-varlden/480-000-sexbrott-mot-kvinnor-i-sverige-pa-ett-ar/?fb_action_ids=10154168899801954&fb_action_types=og.likes

long range shooter

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You've obviously never been to Sweden.

And you dont read to many swedish papers

oscarBravo

long range shooter wrote: »

Swedish police have made their own report regarding the no go zones and criminal gangs are part of it,all immigrants.

https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Rapporter-och-publikationer/Ovriga-rapporter/Publicerat-ovriga-rapporter/Utsatta-omraden/

My Swedish is pretty rusty, so I've only skimmed that report, but I can't find the bit in it that says the criminal gangs are all immigrants. Can you tell me what page it's on, and I'll read it more carefully?

Also the statiistic bureau made a report last year regarding rapes in sweden,there was ONLY 480000 cases of sexual crimes in one year,,yes believe it or not.And this have only increased in the last last 3 years,when mass immigration started in Sweden.

This has what, exactly, to do with grenade attacks?

troll_a_roll

If the information is suppressed then it's not possible to provide it.

The Swedish government thinks it's racist to collect statistics.

It is the Swedish government and civil service that is covering up the truth.

It's the same thing in Ireland. People are not voting for immigration but it is being implemented anyway.

An increasing number of Irish police reports asking for assistance from the public fail to provide any description of the person sought. How can assistance be provided in those circumstances?

I believe that immigrants do commit more crime than natives, often due to different cultural values, and I further believe that the authorities seek to cover up those objective differences in criminal intent and in crime rates.

b_mac2

long range shooter wrote: »

Swedish police have made their own report regarding the no go zones and criminal gangs are part of it,all immigrants.

https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Rapporter-och-publikationer/Ovriga-rapporter/Publicerat-ovriga-rapporter/Utsatta-omraden/

Also the statiistic bureau made a report last year regarding rapes in sweden,there was ONLY 480000 cases of sexual crimes in one year,,yes believe it or not.And this have only increased in the last last 3 years,when mass immigration started in Sweden.Of those 480000 sex crimes,140000 was rapes,all done by strangers,as in someone they didnt know from before.

http://www.bt.se/sverige-varlden/480-000-sexbrott-mot-kvinnor-i-sverige-pa-ett-ar/?fb_action_ids=10154168899801954&fb_action_types=og.likes

Would you mind translating that for us Timberrrrrrrr?

oscarBravo

troll_a_roll wrote: »

I believe that immigrants do commit more crime than natives, often due to different cultural values, and I further believe that the authorities seek to cover up those objective differences in criminal intent and in crime rates.

And some people believe that the world is flat, or that NASA faked the moon landing. Do you have evidence for your beliefs?

Brian?

troll_a_roll wrote: »

If the information is suppressed then it's not possible to provide it.

The Swedish government thinks it's racist to collect statistics.

It is the Swedish government and civil service that is covering up the truth.

It's the same thing in Ireland. People are not voting for immigration but it is being implemented anyway.

An increasing number of Irish police reports asking for assistance from the public fail to provide any description of the person sought. How can assistance be provided in those circumstances?

I believe that immigrants do commit more crime than natives, often due to different cultural values, and I further believe that the authorities seek to cover up those objective differences in criminal intent and in crime rates.

So you have no proof. Grand.

Did you check out the biker war as I suggested?

long range shooter

oscarBravo wrote: »

My Swedish is pretty rusty, so I've only skimmed that report, but I can't find the bit in it that says the criminal gangs are all immigrants. Can you tell me what page it's on, and I'll read it more carefully?

This has what, exactly, to do with grenade attacks?

Its pretty obvious when the police themselves admits it,in political correct Sweden.
You really think the swedish goverment would allow immigrants mentioned in a report,LMAO,they do there best to cover up any truth related to immigrants.
And you dont think 480000 sex crimes in one year, in a country with 10 mill people, is more worrying than a grenade attack?

http://www.thejournal.ie/swedish-sex-attacks-2542967-Jan2016/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-08/swedish-cop-who-spoke-out-about-immigrant-crime-now-being-investigated-hate-speech

http://avpixlat.info/2017/02/13/ytterligare-en-svensk-polis-tar-bladet-fran-munnen-om-invandrad-kriminalitet/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/764574/Political-Sweden-chaos-police-officer-migrants-blame-serious-crime

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/766057/Three-police-officers-injured-attacked-thugs-Stockholm-no-go-zone

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/641223/Swedish-police-being-ATTACKED-as-they-struggle-in-NO-GO-ZONES-as-migrant-crime-rockets

Norwegian news channel NRK had a trip to Sweden with two Norwegian police recruits to film there daily work in the no go zones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RocMz241uFU

oscarBravo

long range shooter wrote: »

Its pretty obvious when the police themselves admits it,in political correct Sweden.

You haven't told me where in that report it's "admitted".

You really think the swedish goverment would allow immigrants mentioned in a report,LMAO,they do there best to cover up any truth related to immigrants.

So now you're claiming that the report you linked in a post where you claimed that the criminal gangs are "all immigrants" is a coverup.

Why exactly did you link the report? What was your point?

You wouldn't have been throwing an official-looking document (in a language most people here can't read) into a post in an attempt to make it look like it was backing up your (as-yet unsupported) claim, would you? Because that would be dishonest, to say the least.

troll_a_roll

The Police Service of Sweden as an institution doesn't speak out about immigrant crime as they are prevented by the government from doing so. The police in Sweden take directions from the politicians just as much as the police in Ireland do.

Individual police men in Sweden have spoken out at great personal cost.

Not too dis-similar to how whistle blowers are treated in Ireland and elsewhere. If you speak out you can expect the government to target you.


Telling the truth shouldn't be considered hateful. Yet we have Swedish policemen being charged with hate crimes simply because they have told the truth about immigration.

Ireland isn't far behind. Sweden no. 2.


Suppressing the truth for political gain is far more damaging to a society than telling the truth could ever be. I wish politicians would recognise that.


Sweden is in effect engaging in a massive national delusion. Eventually the good times will end.