Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm in the UK at the moment and there are 6 Romanian lads working in my place who say the same thing, I know many Irish and indeed English people who went to USA, Canada, Australia etc for the same reason. Here's some breaking news for you, people will move to other countries for a better life.

Of course they will. The difference is, the 6 Romanian lads are working. They're not pretending to be refugees, to scam the system.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're right they are economic immigants so because they have a "right" to be here that's OK with you. I don't see immigrant or refugee I see human being, maybe that's the difference between us.

I see human beings, too.

But, realistically, don't you think people genuinely fleeing a warzone should have priority over those who are just looking for free everything? And are not prepared to let any legal impediment stand in the way of getting it?

Can we seriously afford €275,000 per person who comes here for a better life as opposed to those fleeing a warzone?

At 60% of the total intake of 4,000, that's 2,400 people, @ €275000 each.
A whopping 660 million per year, on people who are looking for a better life.

What abut Irish children who need life-saving treatment that runs to 10s of thousands of euro per year, that are denied it because it is considered unaffordable?
Are they not human beings, too? Or do they not count because their parents are Irish?

What about the genuine refugees who are stuck in camps in Syria?
Are they not human?

We can only do so much.
The least we should be trying to do is help as many people as possible - not playing fairy godmother with money that could be spent much more effectively.

Old Bill

Gatling wrote: »

If I'm correct this will bring our spending on housing asylum seekers to near €300 million pa and not including legal fees for barrister's and human rights lawyers

It's disgraceful Ireland is being taking for a ride.

Somebody needs to put an end to the asylum "industry".

We need an Irish Donald Trump.

Gatling

Old Bill wrote: »

We need an Irish Donald Trump.

No and we don't need a putin either

dissed doc

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do you have lesbian in quotations?

Just repeating what she herself emphasised when she was elected: it is part of the identity politics that was started.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irelands-first-lesbian-td-hopes-to-represent-lgbt-community-in-dail-723668.html

If identity politics are relevant to being elected (as opposed to simple representative politics) I see no reason to suddenly ignore it once in office, right? I am unsure why she is bringing only one gender - why not women? Why 40 young men? That is not fair in the least. Why not even split 20 women and 20 men.

I would like people elected based on ability , not based on sexual preference, ethnicity, etc., . If we can't move on from identity politics, we are stuck in the mud. Now we are picking refugees just based on gender; well, Minister Zappone is picking refugees just of one gender. There is no "we" and no democratic oversight it seems.

If a man went and picked just 40 women? Or just 40 men? It is weird and not representative of IMO normality....


I prefer decisions based on reasoned and accountable democracy and consensus, not for Ireland to be a sandbox for identity politics interest groups.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course they will. The difference is, the 6 Romanian lads are working. They're not pretending to be refugees, to scam the system.



I see human beings, too.

But, realistically, don't you think people genuinely fleeing a warzone should have priority over those who are just looking for free everything? And are not prepared to let any legal impediment stand in the way of getting it?

Can we seriously afford €275,000 per person who comes here for a better life as opposed to those fleeing a warzone?

At 60% of the total intake of 4,000, that's 2,400 people, @ €275000 each.
A whopping 660 million per year, on people who are looking for a better life.

What abut Irish children who need life-saving treatment that runs to 10s of thousands of euro per year, that are denied it because it is considered unaffordable?
Are they not human beings, too? Or do they not count because their parents are Irish?

What about the genuine refugees who are stuck in camps in Syria?
Are they not human?

We can only do so much.
The least we should be trying to do is help as many people as possible - not playing fairy godmother with money that could be spent much more effectively.

5 of them.were here illegally before they were allowed be here ; )

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

5 of them.were here illegally before they were allowed be here ; )

Were they receiving assistance to the tune of 275,000 per year?
No? No comparison, then.

Not that I approve of their being here illegally, either - I don't!

But, they were not denying funds to an Irish child in urgent need of treatment.
They weren't preventing someone whose life is in imminent danger from being helped.

There are degrees of wrongdoing. Being here illegally is wrong. Being here illegally, and scamming the system to the tune of €275,000 per year, costing lives that could otherwise be saved - that's the lowest of the low.

jmayo

Brian? wrote: »

"Our own people"? Who do you define as "our own"?

Ireland should welcome legitimate refugees, so what if it costs money? Are you placing a particular price on each human life?

Must get in before thread locked. ..

The Irish government have put a price on cystic-fibrosis sufferers lives.

BTW it is 160,000 per year, a lower price than the 40 young men from Calais are going to cost.
And yes they are all young men.
They would be old enough to leave shcool and even join the army.

Oh and also we all damn well know fook all of them are Syrian if they have come from the jungle.

And the looney leftie minister who is championing this idea wants to bring in 200 of these so called kids.

If 40 are costing 11 million that means we have to find 55 odd million.

Yep folks those waiting lists will get longer, those trolleys will be out the door.
Oh and the housing list, well add another couple of years to it.

oscarBravo wrote: »

I get that some people believe that how deserving of human compassion a person is is a direct function of where they had the manners to be born, but not everyone feels that way.

Every civilised country has signed up to agreements that set out how refugees (the word doesn't need danger quotes - yes, I get that you're using them as a way of expressing your view that they're not genuine refugees without having to adduce any evidence for that belief) should be treated. If you believe that Ireland should renege on those agreements on the basis that Irish people are inherently more deserving, I guess you'll have to elect a government that agrees with you.

That's not how public policy works. If everyone got to opt out of a percentage of their taxes on the basis of government expenditure they disagreed with, the country would be in quite the state.

Funny how you mention civilised.
Do you have any idea of the problems these so called refugees have caused in the countries in which they have wandered over the last couple of years.

Maybe you wouldn't mind young men whacking off to young girls in Irish swimming pools, Irish nurses lured into parks to be gang raped, young children raped by some guy with a sexual emergency, machete attacks on our public transport, girls and women groped at public celebrations ?
BTW you won't find those stories on Irish media, hell they weren't covered in German media at one stage either.

Ever take a look at the ones arriving in Greece and Italy.
Shag all are actually Syrian and even more starkly for refugees shag all are women and children.

Where are the real refugees ?

Look back through history and the pictures/videos of refugee columns out of Rwanda in 90s, Yugoslavia in 90s, Sudan in 2000s, India/Pakistan in 48, Korea in 50s, Europe in WWII and the very noticable thing is the young children, the women and the old.

BTW out of the 80 coming to Ballaghadereen, the state has already admitted "most" are Syrian.

Who are the rest?
Are they Iraqi, Afghani, Eritrean, Sudanese, Morrocan, perhaps a young Tunisian like that guy in Berlin ?

oscarBravo wrote: »

A question to anyone who believes this: if you had a 16-year-old son, would you be happy to leave him on his own in a refugee camp in Turkey or Jordan? Or in Calais, for that matter?

Perhaps you'd like to explain what you know about them that the Department of Justice doesn't?

And if you were 16 or a young man would you p**s off and leave your parents, your sisters or your wife and kids and use your money to get a leaky dingy to Europe ?

And please stop pedalling the shyte that Calais jungle was refugees.
Maybe you should chat to some truckers.

And as for relying on our dept of justice, need I remind you that some people in Berlin had relied on the intelligence services and police of a much richer and capable state to make sure a Tunisian criminal on a watch list didn't get to become an ISIS poster boy.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Were they receiving assistance to the tune of 275,000 per year?
No? No comparison, then.

Not that I approve of their being here illegally, either - I don't!

But, they were not denying funds to an Irish child in urgent need of treatment.
They weren't preventing someone whose life is in imminent danger from being helped.

There are degrees of wrongdoing. Being here illegally is wrong. Being here illegally, and scamming the system to the tune of €275,000 per year, costing lives that could otherwise be saved - that's the lowest of the low.

How are they "scamming" to the tune of €275,000 ? Do you believe they will be getting this cash into their accounts?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How are they "scamming" to the tune of €275,000 ? Do you believe they will be getting this cash into their accounts?

Don't be obtuse.

Those who are not genuine refugees are scamming.

Now, instead of constantly asking questions - how about addressing some of the points that have been made...

Mary63

I don't believe we will end up spending 11 million or at least I hope not.

These men and they most definitely are men and not teenagers will abscond to the UK at the earliest opportunity.

What worries me though is the commitment that Zappone has given that we keep them here, i.e. in what will be an open prison in a group of houses somewhere.this means contracts have been signed with various security companies to monitor the movement of the "teenagers" and even if they abscond we will still have to pay for their supervision, probably indefinitely.

dissed doc

Mary63 wrote: »

I don't believe we will end up spending 11 million or at least I hope not.

These men and they most definitely are men and not teenagers will abscond to the UK at the earliest opportunity.

What worries me though is the commitment that Zappone has given that we keep them here, i.e. in what will be an open prison in a group of houses somewhere.this means contracts have been signed with various security companies to monitor the movement of the "teenagers" and even if they abscond we will still have to pay for their supervision, probably indefinitely.

Just be thankful it didn't get negotiated under TIPP; if it was, we would probably have to pay compensation to any company deprived of contract work by the government failing to supply enough "refugees" to monitor.

Mary63

I hope a contract has been signed with a condom manufacturer.

jmayo

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How are they "scamming" to the tune of €275,000 ? Do you believe they will be getting this cash into their accounts?

The Calais "chidren" or "minors" as our minister like to term them are scam aritists.
They were refused entry to the UK but hung around in Calais, basically making a complete nuisance of themselves.
How did they get to Calais in the first place ?

Look we all know they will not be getting the €275,00 each, but as we know from our experiences of the revelations of the charity industry over the last few years, all the ones involved must get a nice slice of the pie.

Like with the very lucky and far sighted investor in the hotel (and supposedly 50 odd houses by all aco*****) in Ballaghadereen someone has to provide accommodation for these guys.
And that accommodation will not come cheap.

Then there is education and language classes with need for translators.
Hopefully the now standard European "you can't go raping women and girls because they aren't dressed like a tent and with a guy already" class will also be included in this education.

Then they have to get access to doctors and healthcare, they will need have medicals, have dental checkups and any necessary work carried out and they will need child physcologists to help them get over all the hardships they encountered in France.

Then there will have to be money for clothing.
They possibly need a phone to contact their poor parents and other siblings still left in the war zones, or maybe even their relatives in the UK already.

They will need transport so some guy with minibuses and taxis will do ok out of it.
Then they need money to join sports clubs, training camps in the summer, for trips to familise them with our country, you know so that they might integrate.

There is a lot of money involved in helping refugees.
Ask Mr Goldman Sachs peter sutherland if you doubt me.

Old Bill

Mary Robinson has alot to answer for, she invited the "Refugees" into Ireland back in the 1990s.

Over the past 20 years "Refugees" and bogus asylum seekers have cost the state Billions.

All thanks to Mary Robinson who is still drawing down a massive 100k+ a year state pension.

recedite

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Well you clearly don't feel than Human Rights apply to these people and feel they should be treated differently to Irish nationals.

An African guy living off the land in Calais should be treated the same as an Irish national?
Why do you think every country has its own passport? Should we all just burn our passports?

Mary63

I have never read such nonsense and I am actually beginning to understand now why Trump is rolling into the White house on Friday.

Old Bill

Mary63 wrote: »

I have never read such nonsense and I am actually beginning to understand now why Trump is rolling into the White house on Friday.

Trump is one of the few politicians who tells it like it is.

Mary63

I know, most of them say what they people want to hear and they think what people want to hear is what the media tell the politicians is what people want to hear.The reality is people are afraid to actually say what they think now because they will be called racist, they say nothing at all and then place their vote.Thats the reason for Trump and Brexit and we have an awful lot to lose if Britain do eventually go and all because Britain are terrified of Turkey getting into the EU.

gitzy16v

I cant believe some people are ok with this situation,the ACTUAL REFUGEES heading for Ballaghadreen are grand,no bother,taken from ACTUAL REFUGEE CAMPS.....these lads from Calais are nothing but criminals,waiting to illegally enter the U.K by any means possible and this clown Zappone is straight up aiding and abetting criminals.

Bubbaclaus

Old Bill wrote: »

Mary63 wrote: »

I have never read such nonsense and I am actually beginning to understand now why Trump is rolling into the White house on Friday.

Trump is one of the few politicians who tells it like it is.

He doesn't have a clue and will be found out quick enough.

Gone inside 18 months I'd wager.

oscarBravo

newacc2015 wrote: »

How do you distinguish between these terms? A refugee is a super broad term that is not specific at all.

On the contrary, it's a well-understood term with a specific legal meaning. The UNHCR website is your friend.

Deleted User wrote: »

Who's talking about refugees?

This thread. Try to keep up.

Eoinmc97

oscarBravo wrote: »

On the contrary, it's a well-understood term with a specific legal meaning. The UNHCR website is your friend.

I think the idea was "Is that definition of refugee both agreeable, and applicable to everyone in this case?" or along those lines.
For reference;

A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.

Currently, a uniform and internationally recognised definition for "Migrant" is not available.

Again, we do not have all the facts, nor have we validated these, so it's hard to find the 'right' (forget the momentous philosophical debates one can have to define the concept of 'right') thing to do.

oscarBravo

Eoinmc97 wrote: »

I think the idea was "Is that definition of refugee both agreeable, and applicable to everyone in this case?" or along those lines.

Taking those two parts separately: if you have an issue with the internationally agreed definition of a refugee, you'll have to take it up with the international community. As to whether it's applicable in this case...

Again, we do not have all the facts, nor have we validated these, so it's hard to find the 'right' (forget the momentous philosophical debates one can have to define the concept of 'right') thing to do.

Not having all the facts doesn't seem to have slowed down many of the commentators on this thread who have their minds well and truly made up; they don't need no stinkin' facts.

If anyone has evidence that the government has failed to do its job in assessing the suitability of a candidate for refugee status, they should produce it. Until I see evidence to the contrary, it seems reasonable to assume that if our government has granted refugee status, it's because it's warranted.

gitzy16v

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not having all the facts doesn't seem to have slowed down many of the commentators on this thread who have their minds well and truly made up; they don't need no stinkin' facts.

If there is one fact about the Calais boys its....
on the Economic Migrant<

---

>Refugee spectrum,
those lads are well on the side of Economic Migrant,
we are much better off helping vulnerable children,girls especially,women,elderly and sick.
Those lads made it all the way to France,would we be better off helping those who couldnt make the trip to a safe country first at least,then the Calais Boys.

Mary63

How can we have evidence when we can't and won't see what our 11 million euros will be spent on.

The UK accepted unaccompanied minors but when they landed they were brought in behind a screen so the public wouldn't know what age they are.

We have a right to be told too who bought the hotel recently and the houses and what sort of financial contracts have now been signed to provide accommodation.These are Public Contracts which should have been put to tender so everyone could make a bid f they desired.

Its up to our media to ask these questions on our behalf and if they won't do it our Public Representatives should.

jmayo

gitzy16v wrote: »

I cant believe some people are ok with this situation,the ACTUAL REFUGEES heading for Ballaghadreen are grand,no bother,taken from ACTUAL REFUGEE CAMPS.....these lads from Calais are nothing but criminals,waiting to illegally enter the U.K by any means possible and this clown Zappone is straight up aiding and abetting criminals.

Ehh the ones (initially anyway) heading for Baalaghaderreen are not from a refugee camp, in turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.

They are the share out of the ones that have made it to Europe already thanks to European taxi service in the med, slack border controls in Greece/Turkey and mama merkel's open invitation to everyone and anyone in the Middle East and Africa to come on over.

So if you were rich enough to be able to pay the smugglers you are in, if you were poor you can stay sitting in the cold of winter in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey.
Oh and 200 young lads from Calais, half of whom I bet couldn't point out Syria on a map, in their first year here will cost around 50 odd million which would probably help thousands in those camps in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey.

rgossip30

gitzy16v wrote: »

I cant believe some people are ok with this situation,the ACTUAL REFUGEES heading for Ballaghadreen are grand,no bother,taken from ACTUAL REFUGEE CAMPS.....these lads from Calais are nothing but criminals,waiting to illegally enter the U.K by any means possible and this clown Zappone is straight up aiding and abetting criminals.

I wonder how many unaccompanied 'minors' will suddenly have a large family and want reunification .
When these young male bucks arrive how will they satisfy their sexual appetite ?
DNA testing is inaccurate by 4.7 years and in the UK dental checks were deemed too invasive .
These are just token numbers to say we are doing our bit one hopes but I think its the beginning of a 'wonderful' new program .

jmayo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Taking those two parts separately: if you have an issue with the internationally agreed definition of a refugee, you'll have to take it up with the international community. As to whether it's applicable in this case... Not having all the facts doesn't seem to have slowed down many of the commentators on this thread who have their minds well and truly made up; they don't need no stinkin' facts.

If anyone has evidence that the government has failed to do its job in assessing the suitability of a candidate for refugee status, they should produce it. Until I see evidence to the contrary, it seems reasonable to assume that if our government has granted refugee status, it's because it's warranted.

Here are some facts for you.

A young lad born in 1992 who grew up in poverty a town called Oueslatia in Tunisia left school at 13, turned to booze and got into criminality because he was poor according to his family.

He fled after been charged with theft of a truck and was sentenced to 5 years in his absence.
In 2011 he crossed the Mediterranean to Italy on a migrant boat, landing first in Lampedusa.
He pretended to be a child refugee fleeing the Arab Spring fallout.

He was yet another refugee/asylum seeker statistic.

In Italy he turned to crime, he was jailed for 4 years for an arson attack on a migrant centre.
In jail he really turned to violence and intimidation which resulted in him spending a total of 70 days in solitary confinement.

After getting out of jail in May 2015 he left Italy and spent 3 weeks in Switzerland before moving on to Germany in search of better opportunities arriving there in June 2015.

His asylum claim took many months to process in the immense backlog, as more than one million migrants flooded into Germany, but it was finally rejected in July 2016.
He was supposed to be deported but his expulsion couldn’t be carried out because he didn’t have valid identity papers. Germany requested a replacement passport from the Tunisian authorities but they at first denied he was their citizen.

German authorities had linked him to an Iraqi ISIS recruiter and one of Germany’s most notorious jihadist preachers.
As early as February 2016 he was put on a list of individuals to be investigated as far as legally possible.

He was investigated by German police over a suspected attempt to buy automatic weapons for a terror plot.

On the night of 19 December 2016, he and possibly others hijacked a Polish truck killing it's driver Łukasz Urban and then ploughed the truck into the Christmas market beside Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church at Breitscheidplatz in Berlin.
He killed 12 and injured 56 people.

The Tunisian driver fled likely travelling to Nijmegen, the Netherlands, where it is thought he took a bus to the Lyon-Part-Dieu train station in France.
He then took a train from Lyon, via Chambéry to Milan, Italy, via the Italian city of Turin.
On Dec 23rd in Milan when he was challenged by Italian police for identification he opened fire wounding one officer.
He was killed.

So ends the life of child refugee, migrant, asylum seeker, criminal and terrorist Anis Amri.

BTW his new passport arrived from Tunisia two days after the market attack.

How do those facts suit you ?

rgossip30

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No you're right, I have worked with many Muslim over the last 30 years and not a sigle one of them has even blinked when I told them I am an Atheist never mind tried to convert me


But keep listening to the media lads apparently I would have had my throat cut 1000 times if I had divulged this information to your average everyday Muslim.

Just your experience . I found that muslims hate the west for the crusades and support of Israel .

Stheno wrote: »

Home to where? Shes an irish citizen

Sent home to where she lives in Ireland without a pension .

baz2009 wrote: »

And he was quite atrocious at the job.

I see a report that he was a train driver on the underground before coming to Ireland to claim asylum ?
Laoise Nationalist story is not online now.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/22865-should-mayor-portlaoise-deported.html

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I hate the west's support of Israel and the way they treat the Palestinian people, does this make me a terrorist?

Not sure what you are driving at maybe just a desperate need to post . I don't like the west's support of Israel also .

oscarBravo wrote: »

On the contrary, it's a well-understood term with a specific legal meaning. The UNHCR website is your friend.



This thread. Try to keep up.

What is your response when someone just turns up refuses to say nationality and give their name . They cannot be deported and the way its going would have an amnesty after 5 years .

Timberrrrrrrr

rgossip30 wrote: »

Just your experience . I found that muslims hate the west for the crusades and support of Israel .

I hate the west's support of Israel and the way they treat the Palestinian people, does this make me a terrorist?

Mary63

Thanks for the information jmayo.It is truly scary reading and if that is how inept the Germans authorities were at protecting their citizens I shiver at the danger we Irish are in.

I have no confidence whatsoever that anyone in Authority is trained in how to deal with these terrorists, either the homegrown ones or the ones who are getting in either by pretending to be "teenagers" or else slipping in undetected.

The Germans slipped up very badly with the Berlin terrorist but at least an investigation is taking place now into how each and every official involved acted.Hopefully someone will accept responsibility, which never happens in this country.

kupus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I hate the west's support of Israel and the way they treat the Palestinian people, does this make me a terrorist?

You hate Israel. As far as i see it makes you anti-semitic.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

Thanks for the information jmayo.It is truly scary reading and if that is how inept the Germans authorities were at protecting their citizens I shiver at the danger we Irish are in.

I have no confidence whatsoever that anyone in Authority is trained in how to deal with these terrorists, either the homegrown ones or the ones who are getting in either by pretending to be "teenagers" or else slipping in undetected.

The Germans slipped up very badly with the Berlin terrorist but at least an investigation is taking place now into how each and every official involved acted.Hopefully someone will accept responsibility, which never happens in this country.

Maybe. Or maybe a sacrificial lamb is required, and sacrificial lambs don't generally come from the top echelons...

And, yes, I'm a cynic - or a realist, depending on your viewpoint.

recedite

Deleted User wrote: »

..and sacrificial lambs don't generally come from the top echelons....

No sign of Angela Merkel stepping up to the chopping board anyway. It was she who said Syrians could not be deported from Germany and tried to put pressure on the UK to make a similar announcement.
Amri was a child refugee from Syria, according to himself, and this could not be disproved until the German prosecutor got hold of his Tunisian passport.
By which time, lots of Berliners were dead, and the UK had finally had enough of the EU.
So yeah, nice one Angela. Keep up the good work.

newacc2015

oscarBravo wrote: »

On the contrary, it's a well-understood term with a specific legal meaning. The UNHCR website is your friend.

It is also super broad. The UNHCR defines it as "Refugees are people fleeing conflict or persecution."

What conflict are these people fleeing from in Turkey? Or fleeing from in Greece? Both are safe countries with a decent standard of living.

So you are telling me someone who goes from Syria through Eastern Europe to Germany or France is only doing so to avoid conflict? If I was any of wiser, I would see them as shopping for the country with the best welfare/ job opportunities which would make them seem like economic migrants.

jmayo

newacc2015 wrote: »

It is also super broad. The UNHCR defines it as "Refugees are people fleeing conflict or persecution."

What conflict are these people fleeing from in Turkey? Or fleeing from in Greece? Both are safe countries with a decent standard of living.

So you are telling me someone who goes from Syria through Eastern Europe to Germany or France is only doing so to avoid conflict? If I was any of wiser, I would see them as shopping for the country with the best welfare/ job opportunities which would make them seem like economic migrants.

This is the thing.
We are being told the young guys in Calais are fleeing persecution and war.
We are being told how some of them have suffered for years now sitting in the likes of Calais trying to get to UK.
And once they get here there will then be told they should be reunited with their families back in the warzones.

Except that leads me to one question, how have their families managed for the last few years in the warzones ?
Surely if it was that bad they would have fled as well and also be sitting in France somewhere ?

It is the same with the mullarkey spouted by the pro side about how the young guys wandering from Greece up through the Balkans to Germany were without women, children, parents, the old because they were the only ones that could make the hazardous journey through Turkey and across the sea in leaky dinghies to Greece.

If they had been in such peril and by extension probably their families, why weren't they demanding that they were reunited with them once they got to Greece ?

Why did they have to set off walking to Germany and some even to Sweden?
And yes we know they caught trains eventually.

Surely to fook they would be worried about their families back home rather than trying to get to Germany to go on the tear to celebrate New Years ?

To me it is like someone escaping out of a burning house and then pissing off down the road to the nearest pub before trying to initiate rescue for the family back in the burning house.

Mary63

Other half annoys me so much at times I think about getting on a boat too and I quite fancy living on an Island In Greece.

If I take the chance will someone give me a house and enough money to live on for the rest of my days.

rgossip30

Mary63 wrote: »

Other half annoys me so much at times I think about getting on a boat too and I quite fancy living on an Island In Greece.

If I take the chance will someone give me a house and enough money to live on for the rest of my days.

I am often tempted to ask asylum seekers or refugees how to enter and get residence here .

Brian?

rgossip30 wrote: »

I wonder how many unaccompanied 'minors' will suddenly have a large family and want reunification .
When these young male bucks arrive how will they satisfy their sexual appetite ?

How does any 17 year old? What relevance does this have to taking in refugees.

Referring to these children as "bucks" is disgusting, it's a racist dog whistle and I don't know whether you even realise it.

They're children because they are under 18 and they are refugees because they have been designated as refugees. Any argument to the contrary is pointless.

Brian?

rgossip30 wrote: »

I wonder how many unaccompanied 'minors' will suddenly have a large family and want reunification .
When these young male bucks arrive how will they satisfy their sexual appetite ?

How does any 17 year old? What relevance does this have to taking in refugees.

Referring to these children as "bucks" is disgusting, it's a racist dog whistle and I don't know whether you even realise it.

They're children because they are under 18 and they are refugees because they have been designated as refugees. Any argument to the contrary is pointless.

Brian?

kupus wrote: »

You hate Israel. As far as i see it makes you anti-semitic.

Hating Jews makes you anti Semitic. No matter how much the Israelies conflate the 2, hating the actions of the state of Israel is not anti semitism.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Other half annoys me so much at times I think about getting on a boat too and I quite fancy living on an Island In Greece.

If I take the chance will someone give me a house and enough money to live on for the rest of my days.

Have you seen the refugee camps in Greece? To belittle the plight of those poor people displays either a complete lack of empathy or a complete lack of knowledge.

b_mac2

Brian? wrote: »

Referring to these children as "bucks" is disgusting, it's a racist dog whistle and I don't know whether you even realise it.

If that's the case my Grandfather must have been a horrible racist so, he always referred to us as "bucks".

Why the fudge do people look to be outraged in lieu of others these days?

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

This thread has gone quite a bit off topic and the standards are quite low. Please make substantial contributions or dont post on the thread.

Brian?

b_mac2 wrote: »

If that's the case my Grandfather must have been a horrible racist so, he always referred to us as "bucks".

Why the fudge do people look to be outraged in lieu of others these days?

It's all about context. Your Grandad wasn't being racist, I use bucks myself sometimes talking to the kids.

"Bucks" is commonly used by white supremacists to refer to men who are members of minority groups. Much like the words "snowflake", "SJW" etc. it has spread out from the various alt right/white supremacist sub reddits, 4chan and so on. It's become acceptable to use as a derogatory term for minority males again. Male slaves were referred
to as bucks.

Given the content of the post it was used in, I think my disgust is bang on. Context is key. In the alt right echo chambers of Reddit no one will challenge it's use. Even if I turn out to be wrong, I will challenge its use here.

Count Dooku

Brian? wrote: »

Have you seen the refugee camps in Greece? To belittle the plight of those poor people displays either a complete lack of empathy or a complete lack of knowledge.

Do you know how much those 'poor ' people had to pay to get even to Greece? They ready to suffer temporary discomfort before their investment will pay back.
And try to think how people in poor countries can get thousands of euro to pay smugglers for their service

Brian?

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you know how much those 'poor ' people had to pay to get even to Greece? They ready to suffer temporary discomfort before their investment will pay back.
And try to think how people in poor countries can get thousands of euro to pay smugglers for their service

So sleeping in tents during a scalding hot summer an unprecedentedly cold winter doesn't make them worthy of your pity? They're not poor to you because they had the money to escape.

As I said a complete lack of empathy.

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

So sleeping in tents during a scalding hot summer an unprecedentedly cold winter doesn't make them worthy of your pity?

If they were genuine Syrian war refugees they would have taken up the offer to register in a centre and been transported to Germany.
But these guys are from places like Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Its their choice to remain there because they hope the land border will open up again and the "free for all" will resume. Basically they are illegal immigrants.
They could accept that they were too late, and just give up this idea they had, and choose to go back home. But that would be too humiliating for them, having already sold up their belongings and told their friends and neighbours that they were off to Germany to sample the good life.

So yeah, its a tough situation to be in, but they took a gamble of their own free will, and lost.

The kindest thing would be for Germany to pay for a free ticket home. After all it was the Germans that invited them, but then changed their minds when they saw how many were coming.

jmayo

Brian? wrote: »

How does any 17 year old? What relevance does this have to taking in refugees.

Referring to these children as "bucks" is disgusting, it's a racist dog whistle and I don't know whether you even realise it.

They're children because they are under 18 and they are refugees because they have been designated as refugees. Any argument to the contrary is pointless.

Lets be fair technically some of them may be children, but they were old enough and hairy enough to get to France and then hang around the jungle, some for many years so they are not some wet behind the ears kids.

And as has been found out by other states the ages they claim to be and the reality are far from the same.
If anything it has been found the majority are lying about their ages.

In fact one Anis Amri upon his arrival in Lampedusa, Italy in February 2011 claimed he was a minor when in fact he was 19.

The supposed 15 year old asylum seeker in Sweden that stabbed 22-year-old aid worker Alexandra Mezher to death at an accommodation centre in Sweden in January 2016 was ruled to be actually an adult by Sweden’s migration agency.

BTW just because some agency designates them refugees doesn't alter fact most of them are actually just economic migrants and most of them aren't from Syria or Iraq.

Brian? wrote: »

It's all about context. Your Grandad wasn't being racist, I use bucks myself sometimes talking to the kids.

"Bucks" is commonly used by white supremacists to refer to men who are members of minority groups. Much like the words "snowflake", "SJW" etc. it has spread out from the various alt right/white supremacist sub reddits, 4chan and so on. It's become acceptable to use as a derogatory term for minority males again. Male slaves were referred
to as bucks.

Given the content of the post it was used in, I think my disgust is bang on. Context is key. In the alt right echo chambers of Reddit no one will challenge it's use. Even if I turn out to be wrong, I will challenge its use here.

It is getting to the stage where we can't now use our own indigenous terms because some muppet in some other country uses it in a different way and some assume we in Ireland aim to make the same point as the muppets.

And you are right context is key.
I don't think, or at least i would hope, the poster is some white supremacist or member of the KKK and we are not in the USA.

BTW I was having the crack with the quare fellow down the road and he was complainin about that young bucko of his speedin round the place in his new car.
How many people have I upset with that sentence ?

Old Bill

Brian? wrote: »

So sleeping in tents during a scalding hot summer an unprecedentedly cold winter doesn't make them worthy of your pity? They're not poor to you because they had the money to escape.

As I said a complete lack of empathy.

They exploit our empathy these people are taking us all for a ride.

Just listen to what former Justice Minster Michael McDowell had to say about them.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mcdowell-rubbishes-tall-stories-of-some-asylum-seekers-25985727.html

JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell has hit out at the "rubbish" stories asylum seekers come up with to get into Ireland.


He gave examples for motivation to enter such as that of a first cousin of the applicant having been involved in a coup 20 years previously, or an asylum seeker having been selected by a cult for ritual sacrifice - or that they themselves had been asked to perform a ritual sacrifice. Mr McDowell said: "They don't know how they get to Ireland because there are no direct flights, and they can't explain". "Cock-and-bull" and "far-fetched nonsense" were being given by people seeking asylum in Ireland, he said.

Speaking at a Dail Committee on Justice, Defence, Equality and Women's Rights, Mr McDowell also said there was too much "political correctness".

He said the patience of Irish people would be very much tested if they knew the stories being told by people looking for asylum. He said he would like to interview asylum seekers at the airport. "I would like to interview these people at the airport, but the UN insists that I go through due procedure. As soon as we go through due process and the gardai arrive, they lift the phone and call a lawyer, who gets them a judicial review to get them taken off the plane," the minister said. He criticised the large amount of "manifestly bogus" political correctness in Ireland. "There's a lot of political correctness that goes on here and it is manifestly bogus, far-fetched nonsense and it's about time we said it," he noted.

If people arrive in Ireland with their children and are not entitled to asylum, they and their children will be going home within 10-12 weeks, he added.
Services for asylum seekers cost a large sum, he said, adding he had never seen anybody involved in the NGO sector admitting there was a major problem with bogus asylum applications.