Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

gitzy16v

Snake Plisken wrote: »

This Hungarian Lorry driver has the the right way to deal with the so called "children of Calais"

Great bunch of lads?Sure they will behave once we take them in.

We should be off doing a deal with Jordan or Lebanon for real refugees.

Mary63

There are hundreds of men in that video and none of them look like teenagers to me.

The covering of their faces is very sinister.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

you expect me to believe the people of Calais are mainly good in spite of what I see on my own television screens.

So the only knowledge you get is from what you have seen on TV?
The media are hardly going to stream the boring nothing happens parts are they?
I mean rte news don't come on at 6pm showing videos from somewhere nothing has happened do they?
I'm not sure why you think because some refugees commit crimes that they all do?
Can you explain your reasoning on that?

gitzy16v

bubblypop wrote: »

So the only knowledge you get is from what you have seen on TV?
The media are hardly going to stream the boring nothing happens parts are they?
I mean rte news don't come on at 6pm showing videos from somewhere nothing has happened do they?
I'm not sure why you think because some refugees commit crimes that they all do?
Can you explain your reasoning on that?

It's not really plastered all over the media at all.
It's more sympathetic to the Calais migrants.

Mary63

I have seen enough of those depressing scenes from Calais and heard enough truck drivers who have no axe to grind telling it as it is.it doesn't matter where the scenes are viewed, its good that we have access to these scenes so we can put pressure on our elected representatives to protect this country from becoming a drop off point into the UK.

Its an offence to try and get into any country illegally so everyone of those "refugees"spotted walking along the motorway is a criminal.If they are carrying on like that in France I think we can take it they will engage in crime in Ireland too.Idle hands make the devils work and there will be no work for these "refugees"wherever they are dumped so eventually they will set up a MOLENBEEK all to themselves and in ten years time they will don suicide sets to earn the ten virgins in heaven.Why do you need to be told this bubble pop, have you not seen whats happened in the Netherlands, in France, in Brussels, in Germany, the only safe place now in Europe is Hungary.

Lol
Mary your hysterical!

getzls

We have seen photos of these so called children.
Anyone seen girls?
Not me.
All I see are males of fighting age.
Nothing to fear I suppose.

getzls

We have seen photos of these so called children.
Anyone seen girls?
Not me.
All I see are males of fighting age.
Nothing to fear I suppose.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Apologies for causing further offence, yes, I must be blind, it is a question mark, not a H, apologies again for the offence caused.

No offence caused. I was merely curious if you'd confused me with another poster called brianh as you two may have history.

Another polite query, do you ever use the quote function.

I didn't think the video was tame at all

I did. That's a difference of opinion. Not a reason to call me a liar.

but then again I am a woman so gangs of marauding men frighten me.I didn't grow up In Tallaght so I didn't learn the necessary coping skills of a traumatic childhood surrounded by gangs of out of control people on heroin.This is why I find the pictures of scenes at Calais shocking and also wonder why there are never any young women present.The young men are properly dressed and look very well fed, they don't appear to have been affected in any way by the arduous journey to Calais.

We have different life experiences which is why we have different opinions. Differences should be celebrated.

I'm not shocked by the scenes in the video because I've seen worse here at home. You choose to believe the worst of the people of Calais because of your shock and fear. I want to offer those children a way out of their terrible situation. It's called empathy and is severely lacking around here.

I don't think there is any point in now telling me the people of Tallaght are mainly good,you expect me to believe the people of Calais are mainly good in spite of what I see on my own television screens.

I do. Because, they more than likely are. I have this horrible character flaw, I believe people are essentially good until I'm shown otherwise.

I have read your posts, you said nothing you have seen reported from Calais is in anyway troubling to you because you saw worse growing up in Tallaght.This to me means Tallaght must have been a horrific place because Calais was a lawless jungle.You think because the prospect of us bringing in criminals doesn't bother you(because of your past) it shouldn't bother me either.I will decide what I should worry about, thank you very much.

You say you read my posts. But you clearly haven't.

I said nothing in that one YouTube video that was posted was worse than anything I'd seen growing up in Tallaght. Every bit of news I see about the problem at Calais upsets and disturbs me. I'd Ireland to help by taking in some children. That's all I want.

I also never said you shouldn't be worried about the prospect of you bringing in criminals. I don't particularly care whether you worry or not. I said you can't stereotype every Muslim refugee as a rapist.

recedite

Mary63 wrote: »

...Tallaght must have been a horrific place because Calais was a lawless jungle.You think because the prospect of us bringing in criminals doesn't bother you (because of your past) it shouldn't bother me either. I will decide what I should worry about, thank you very much.

Brian's thinking on this is bizarre. He seems to think that just because he has seen some bad stuff in his life, there should be no minimum standards for the kind of people we allow into this country.

If an Irish person applies for a Green Card to the USA, the slightest whiff of criminality woud disqualify them. They are looking for Garda references, health checks, educational and training qualifications etc..

And there is no point saying these Calais migrant lads are "refugees", not officially "immigrants". They are immigrants, but they are bypassing the official immigration system because one TD (Zappone) has decided that they should. Nobody is even trying to pretend that these African lads come from Syria or a war zone.

The Irish Navy and others are picking these people up from the coast of Libya, and nobody asks them where they have come from. Everyone knows they come from various sub-saharan African countries, and the only reason they have travelled to Libya is to hitch a ride on one of these EU ships that are waiting 12 miles offshore to pick them up.
No questions asked.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

Brian's thinking on this is bizarre. He seems to think that just because he has seen some bad stuff in his life, there should be no minimum standards for the kind of people we allow into this country.

I certainly do not. I made a comparison of personal experience to one YouTube video. Can people start actually reading my posts instead of inferring a meaning that isn't there????

Widdershins

gitzy16v wrote: »

Ive grew up in Tallaght in the 80's and 90's while brian? is right in what can be experienced it is not as frequent as you would be led to believe.
Ive also travelled that god-damned road into Calais on numerous occasions,its genuinely frightening running a gauntlet of migrants,either trying to flag you down,hit the truck with branches,metal bars,rocks,anything they can to slow you down.
Its also frightening because if I did hit somebody Id either be lynched by the mob or arrested by the gendarmes.
I mean these lads are just strolling down the motorway trying to hitch a lift to the U.K its absolutley insane.

People seem brainwashed to override any concerns or doubts immediately, with the words ''fleeing a war torn country''.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

People seem brainwashed to override any concerns or doubts immediately, with the words ''fleeing a war torn country''.

We all have concerns or doubts. Some of us take a more altruistic world view though.

Snake Plisken

Snake Plisken wrote: »

This Hungarian Lorry driver has the the right way to deal with the so called "children of Calais"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW5PyNdwTbo

The most striking thing about that video is the complete and utter disregard those migrant men show to the police.

They are engaging in criminal behaviour, in plain sight of the Gendarmes, in the certain knowledge that there will be no consequences, because there are approx. 30 gendarmes, and hundreds of migrants with one aim in mind - to get aboard a truck by any means possible. Violence is perfectly acceptable!

Mary63 wrote: »

There are hundreds of men in that video and none of them look like teenagers to me.

The covering of their faces is very sinister.

I actually spent 14 minutes, with the pc on mute to avoid distraction, specifically to try to find migrants who looked as if they were minors.

Tbh, I wasn't surprised when I couldn't find any, either!

jmayo

Brian? wrote: »

Are you completely blind to my point. Do you even read what I write? I am not besmirching the "good people of Tallaght". I am saying terrible things happened, but that didn't mean everyone I Tallaght was a bad person. Just like everyone in Calais isn't a bad person.

For once I agree with one of your statements, there are lots of people in Calais that aren't bad.
The native population in Calais, like in most places, are for the most part just ordinary decent law abiding people wishing to go about their lives.

On the other hand the residents of the jungle show utter disregard for anyone else, make the lives of the natives and those passing through the port a nightmare.

And it is this latter class of person that you are willing to throw the welcome mat out for.

Would you be so welcoming if someone told you a bunch of French native criminals and anti social louts were about to arrive in Ireland ?

bubblypop wrote: »

So the only knowledge you get is from what you have seen on TV?
The media are hardly going to stream the boring nothing happens parts are they?
I mean rte news don't come on at 6pm showing videos from somewhere nothing has happened do they?
I'm not sure why you think because some refugees commit crimes that they all do?
Can you explain your reasoning on that?

Actually if Mary, or anyone else, is relying on what they see on TV they actually might be of the same mindset as you.
Mainstream TV and media coverage is so one sided at this stage one might actually believe that all the migrants in Calais all the ones off the boats in Italy are Syrian kids, women and children fleeing the war in Syria.

Hell it has now gotten to the stage where police and media collude to not metion the physical features of criminal suspects lest people might get the wrong idea of the new arrivals and people of a certain religious persuasion.

And we have even had a total lack of coverage of some events and it was only through internet that the stories have leaked out.

And of course the real threat is not terrorism, rape, murder and harassment by migrants but the bad racists and fascists, i.e. people who object to unfethered immigration of people from Africa and ME/Asia which includes a fair chunk of criminals, fundamentalists, welfare chasers and is primarily made up of young males.

So if anything Mary has made an informed decision and isn't relying on RTE, BBC, Irish Times, Facebook or the utterances of some celebrity eejit to decide what to believe and who to welcome into her country.

Kivaro

Brian? wrote: »

We all have concerns or doubts. Some of us take a more altruistic world view though.

It's nice to have an altruistic view but who pays for it though?

gitzy16v

We won't be saving any children from Calais.
Simply a bunch of grown men masquerading as teenagers,as has been seen already throughout Europe this past year.
Its about time people opened their eyes.
They are not children or refugees in the jungle,just illegal migrants.

jmayo

Kivaro wrote: »

It's nice to have an altruistic view but who pays for it though?

Usually someone else i.e. the rest of us.

Ever notice the fawning celebrity cheerleaders and politicans involved in this.
Lily Allen is off on her little trips to Calais, she is apologising on behalf of Britain, she lambasts people for claiming terrorist attacks are carried out by migrants.
She wants loads of migrants to come to Britain.

Funny thing is she doesn't live in an area where the migrants are going to live.
She doesn't live an area which has huge problems with existing immigrants who are failing to integrate.

Her children will not going to be the ones having to deal with the migrants' children and the inevitable cutbacks in services and increaed numbers for same resources.
She and her children are not going to be sitting in ever lenghting hospital queues.

We have our own Lily Allens.

Ever remember lectures by Bono about how more of our taxes should be diverted to third world.
Yeah it was just a wee bit before he moved U2's tax affairs to another jurisdiction to obtain a better tax deal.

Mary63

Its got to the stage now where the ethnic origin of sex pests can't be mentioned so while we can guess that everywhere these "refugees"go the sex assaults increase we don't actually have the knowledge available to us to prove this.

Hundreds of men gathered in Cologne and forced women into a narrow area where they were trapped so the men could sexually assault them.This is fact because we now have social media as well as mainstream media.The media cannot just tell us what they want us to believe anymore when people can get on social media to tell their personal stories.The women in Cologne were treated like fools and the police were told to play it down, this didn't work and at least the Police Chief was forced to resign.There are reports coming from Sweden too that the numbers of rapes and sexual assaults have increased but again we do know they have increased but are not told what nationality the men are, its not PC to give us this information, the attackers have more rights than their female victims.

Its ok for Brian to say he doesn't care how worried I am, he like the men in Calais can take all the families possessions and jump into a boat leaving his wife to defend herself and her children.its a lot more difficult for women to defend themselves so naturally hordes of young men doing what they like while a few Policemen stand by is scary stuff to me.I am not afraid to say I don't want even one of those men getting into Ireland and I don't think I am hysterical as another poster claimed.There are a lot of people in France, Germany,the Netherlands,Sweden,Britain etc wishing their Government had taken more care over who came in.

Muslims will never integrate here, they hate alcohol, music, dancing,women and men mixing freely so wherever they go they will from a community which will turn into a no go areaa for anyone not Muslim, the muslims are the most racist of us all.My daughter came home from her mixed school highly indignant because a teacher upset a muslim student.The teacher told this young teenager twice to go into her classroom and the teenager when told the third time started to cry.Her religion prevented her from going into a classroom with no other female present and her male classmates were sitting there waiting for their teacher.I told my teen the teacher was right, if you come to this country and enrol your daughter in a mixed school then you and your religion don't dictate how teachers manage that school.

How do we make this clear to the people Zappone has taken in.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mary63 wrote: »

Its got to the stage now where the ethnic origin of sex pests can't be mentioned so while we can guess that everywhere these "refugees"go the sex assaults increase we don't actually have the knowledge available to us to prove this.

Hundreds of men gathered in Cologne and forced women into a narrow area where they were trapped so the men could sexually assault them.This is fact because we now have social media as well as mainstream media.The media cannot just tell us what they want us to believe anymore when people can get on social media to tell their personal stories.The women in Cologne were treated like fools and the police were told to play it down, this didn't work and at least the Police Chief was forced to resign.There are reports coming from Sweden too that the numbers of rapes and sexual assaults have increased but again we do know they have increased but are not told what nationality the men are, its not PC to give us this information, the attackers have more rights than their female victims.

Its ok for Brian to say he doesn't care how worried I am, he like the men in Calais can take all the families possessions and jump into a boat leaving his wife to defend herself and her children.its a lot more difficult for women to defend themselves so naturally hordes of young men doing what they like while a few Policemen stand by is scary stuff to me.I am not afraid to say I don't want even one of those men getting into Ireland and I don't think I am hysterical as another poster claimed.There are a lot of people in France, Germany,the Netherlands,Sweden,Britain etc wishing their Government had taken more care over who came in.

Muslims will never integrate here, they hate alcohol, music, dancing,women and men mixing freely so wherever they go they will from a community which will turn into a no go areaa for anyone not Muslim, the muslims are the most racist of us all.My daughter came home from her mixed school highly indignant because a teacher upset a muslim student.The teacher told this young teenager twice to go into her classroom and the teenager when told the third time started to cry.Her religion prevented her from going into a classroom with no other female present and her male classmates were sitting there waiting for their teacher.I told my teen the teacher was right, if you come to this country and enrol your daughter in a mixed school then you and your religion don't dictate how teachers manage that school.

How do we make this clear to the people Zappone has taken in.

Utter bullsh/t

I've been thinking about that video by the Hungarian trucker and I've come to the conclusion that the most disturbing thing is the complete contempt they have for the truck drivers.

They don't care whether they hurt these drivers when they throw whatever is available at them.

They don't care whether these truckers are heavily fined - and truck drivers aren't rich, by any means.

They don't mind damaging the trucks, or their contents.

Anything and everything is acceptable to achieve their goal of getting to the UK.

It's almost as if they don't see these drivers as being human beings. They're just an obstacle.

This contempt for Humanity is then rewarded by giving them homes, money, free medical treatment, education, and counselling to help them with the "trauma" they've suffered.:rolleyes:

So, when are we going to offer counselling to the truck drivers?

But, no - they're European. Let's fine them, instead.

After all, it's all their fault these children migrants managed to get onto their trucks and destroy the contents......

Yet, some people wonder why not everyone has sympathy for these migrants, or have concerns about inviting them into our Country, all expenses paid.

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Utter bullsh/t

There is a few women have an issue with the way things are turning out in Paris,and Muslim women trying to save their children from radicalism.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/french-bar-tells-women-isnt-paris-men/&ved=0ahUKEwjgg4Kl19DRAhUkBcAKHbTnB4IQFggiMAE&usg=AFQjCNEHDfkdVM9e8sy1rUzwVcMRGySayg&sig2=BmYGyJTuMxpm_b0o8_UWCw

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

There is a few women have an issue with the way things are turning out in Paris,and Muslim women trying to save their children from radicalism.


https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/french-bar-tells-women-isnt-paris-men/&ved=0ahUKEwjgg4Kl19DRAhUkBcAKHbTnB4IQFggiMAE&usg=AFQjCNEHDfkdVM9e8sy1rUzwVcMRGySayg&sig2=BmYGyJTuMxpm_b0o8_UWCw

Muslims will never integrate here,

Many (the majority) Muslims have integrated into western society just fine

they hate alcohol, music, dancing,women and men mixing freely

They don't "hate" any of those things they just choose not to partake in them, 2 Muslims in my last job went to our Xmas party where there was plenty of the above and they enjoyed themselves.

so wherever they go they will from a community which will turn into a no go areaa for anyone not Muslim,

Again this is more bullsh/the, yes it has happened in some places but to get hysterical and say it WILL happen everywhere is just drivel

gitzy16v

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Muslims will never integrate here,

Many Muslims have integrated into western society just fine

they hate alcohol, music, dancing,women and men mixing freely

They don't "hate" any of those things they just choose not to partake in them, 2 Muslims in my last job went to our Xmas party where there was plenty of the above and they enjoyed themselves.

so wherever they go they will from a community which will turn into a no go areaa for anyone not Muslim,

Again this is more bullsh/the, yes it has happened in some places but to get hysterical and say it WILL happen everywhere is just drivel

So its not utter bullsh1t then just an exaggeration.

Timberrrrrrrr

gitzy16v wrote: »

So its not utter bullsh1t then just an exaggeration.

To make those claims is utter bulls hit

It's like saying a child raised in the inner city can never go on to be a the CEO of a top company simply because of where they came from.

Mary63

It certainly is not utter bull**** Timberrrr, there are ghettoes in France and in Brussels and no one who isn't Muslim goes there.The Police don't even go there, that is why one of the Paris terrorists was walking around his neighbourhood so freely for so long.

There are areas in Bermingham that are almost entirely Asian now and school inspectors have reported that schools have been entirely taken over by Muslims who are preaching hatred to impressionable minds.

Why on earth do you think the situation will be any different here, please tell me what your crystal ball is telling you.

There are only two muslims so they went along because they are in the minority.Wait until there are enough of them in your job to take over, they won't be going along to your christmas party then because there won't be a party.

Muslims are grand as long as there is a minority of them and enough of us to tell them where to stick their beliefs about women and their beliefs about homosexuals and their beliefs about how meat is cooked, about alcohol, about the way women dress, about Sharia law,about the Prophet, about the Koran, the list is endless.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mary63 wrote: »

It certainly is not utter bull**** Timberrrr, there are ghettoes in France and in Brussels and no one who isn't Muslim goes there.The Police don't even go there, that is why one of the Paris terrorists was walking around his neighbourhood so freely for so long.

There are places like this in every major city Mary, there are areas of New York where one doesn't go if you're not black.

There are areas in Bermingham that are almost entirely Asian now and school inspectors have reported that schools have been entirely taken over by Muslims who are preaching hatred to impressionable minds.

Are you talking about operation Troja horse?

Why on earth do you think the situation will be any different here, please tell me what your crystal ball is telling you.

Maybe I just don't live in a word full of hysteria.

_Kaiser_

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Maybe I just don't live in a word full of hysteria.

Perhaps not, but you ARE living in an unrealistic bubble if you think that the problems we're seeing in the UK and Europe won't be repeated here if the same course is followed.

Look, it's pretty simple really - no-one is saying we shouldn't help genuine refugees IF we have the resources to do so (and let's not forget the €650 million annually that this country ALREADY gives in foreign aid by the way), but there is simply no case to be made for bringing in hundreds and ultimately thousands of economic migrants to a country (Ireland) with a relatively small population, limited resources, and which itself is dependent on foreign support by way of FDI and loans to keep things afloat.

We have plenty of urgent and significant issues right here, right now (health, homelessness, Garda resourcing etc etc) that we are struggling to address because the money just isn't there, and diverting more of these funds to support unverified economic migrants that will (in the majority) represent only a further drain on our resources and present us with increased social and security issues just does not make any logical sense!

If these people are genuine refugees then they've no reason to flee from already safe places like Italy and France. If they're economic migrants then there are already plenty of existing ways for them to legitimately apply to live and work in Europe, so let them avail of them!

This crusade that Zappone and Fitzgerald are on has no mandate and no funding to support it - as above that money is being diverted from programmes to help native and legal citizens who are most definitely in need of that help - and the only reason it's gotten as far as it has is the liberal left's attempt to shut down debate on the entire issue and discredit anyone with a legitimate concern about this "plan" as a xenophobic far-right racist! (as a side note, it's always bemusing how such people only believe in freedom of expression and democracy when it suits their own agenda and echo chamber consensus)

Charity begins at home and we have more than enough worthy causes and problems to solve right here without importing someone else's. If they really want to work here then let them apply through the well-established systems for doing so and be judged on those merits accordingly.

Anything else is doomed to repeat the mistakes and problems we've seen elsewhere in the past 18 months.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

It certainly is not utter bull**** Timberrrr, there are ghettoes in France and in Brussels and no one who isn't Muslim goes there.The Police don't even go there, that is why one of the Paris terrorists was walking around his neighbourhood so freely for so long.

There are areas in Bermingham that are almost entirely Asian now and school inspectors have reported that schools have been entirely taken over by Muslims who are preaching hatred to impressionable minds.

Why on earth do you think the situation will be any different here, please tell me what your crystal ball is telling you.

There are only two muslims so they went along because they are in the minority.Wait until there are enough of them in your job to take over, they won't be going along to your christmas party then because there won't be a party.

Muslims are grand as long as there is a minority of them and enough of us to tell them where to stick their beliefs about women and their beliefs about homosexuals and their beliefs about how meat is cooked, about alcohol, about the way women dress, about Sharia law,about the Prophet, about the Koran, the list is endless.

So what's your solution? Mass deportations? Gas chambers? Or would it be better to make efforts through social services and education to integrate the Muslim population better.

Brian?

Kivaro wrote: »

It's nice to have an altruistic view but who pays for it though?

We do. A couple of Euro each to give some child refugees a better life. What's the problem.

_Kaiser_

Brian? wrote: »

We do. A couple of Euro each to give some child refugees a better life. What's the problem.

The "problem" is that contrary to some opinions, there IS no magic money tree and we are a small island nation of limited resources that is already struggling to meet the needs of citizens and issues here.

By suggesting we divert further monies to support "child refugees" (especially when the evidence in the majority of these cases suggests that they are anything but!) is in fact suggesting that we should put these people AHEAD of those who DO have legal and constitutional rights to that support.

THAT is the problem with your position. It's based on an unrealistic fantasy that bears no resemblance to the reality of the situation

gitzy16v

Brian? wrote: »

We do. A couple of Euro each to give some child refugees a better life. What's the problem.

No problem.
The problem is with the adults males pretending to be 16/17yo refugees in an illegal settlement in France.

Brian?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The "problem" is that contrary to some opinions, there IS no magic money tree and we are a small island nation of limited resources that is already struggling to meet the needs of citizens and issues here.

By suggesting we divert further monies to support "child refugees" (especially when the evidence in the majority of these cases suggests that they are anything but!) is in fact suggesting that we should put these people AHEAD of those who DO have legal and constitutional rights to that support.

THAT is the problem with your position. It's based on an unrealistic fantasy that bears no resemblance to the reality of the situation

It's an unrealistic fantasy to take in refugees that are about to be taken in? I think that's fairly realistic, given it's actually happening. These children will be arriving soon no matter what people think.

Or are you not reading my posts and supposing I advocate letting everyone in?

rarariot

To be honest the people who agree with taking in these "16-18" year old men will probably change their tune when one of them is found rubbing one off in their local swimming pool where their own children get lessons. As has been well publicised as a problem in Germany recently.

Brian?

gitzy16v wrote: »

No problem.
The problem is with the adults males pretending to be 16/17yo refugees in an illegal settlement in France.

You'll have to forgive me. I can only reply to anti immigrant argument at a time. The post I replied to contended it was too costly to bring immigrants in, it's not. You seem to agree.

Next, they're adults pretending to be children. They're not

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me. I can only reply to anti immigrant argument at a time. The post I replied to contended it was too costly to bring immigrants in, it's not. You seem to agree.

Next, they're adults pretending to be children. They're not

Link?

_Kaiser_

Brian? wrote: »

It's an unrealistic fantasy to take in refugees that are about to be taken in? I think that's fairly realistic, given it's actually happening. These children will be arriving soon no matter what people think.

Or are you not reading my posts and supposing I advocate letting everyone in?

Ah yes, that's the other common argument used by people in favour alright - "they are coming anyway. There's nothing you can do about it so you might as well accept it!"

Not so.. that's the thing about democracy, and it's why we should be having a constructive and balanced national debate on the issue and how WE as a nation can and SHOULD proceed!

gitzy16v

Brian? wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me. I can only reply to anti immigrant argument at a time. The post I replied to contended it was too costly to bring immigrants in, it's not. You seem to agree.

Next, they're adults pretending to be children. They're not

I think we should help genuine refugees,no doubt.
These fraudsters in Calais I have no time for.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Link?

To what? The burden of proof is not on me here. It's on the department of justice. If posters on here disagree it's up to them to come up with some proof.

Brian?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah yes, that's the other common argument used by people in favour alright - "they are coming anyway. There's nothing you can do about it so you might as well accept it!"

Not so.. that's the thing about democracy, and it's why we should be having a constructive and balanced national debate on the issue and how WE as a nation can and SHOULD proceed!

I'm not actually making That argument though. I was merely rebutting your post that paying for these refugees was unrealistic when it's happening in reality.

Feel free to lobby your TD.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

To what? The burden of proof is not on me here. It's on the department of justice. If posters on here disagree it's up to them to come up with some proof.

You made a very definitive statement:

Brian? wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me. I can only reply to anti immigrant argument at a time. The post I replied to contended it was too costly to bring immigrants in, it's not. You seem to agree.

Next, they're adults pretending to be children. They're not

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/from-the-calais-jungle-to-croydon-migrant-children-arrive-in-bri/

Home Office documents show that if a refugee does not have a birth certificate, a Home Office screening officer can certify them as a child based on their “physical appearance” or “demeanour”.
The document states that refugees “should be treated as an adult if their physical appearance/demeanour very strongly suggests that they are significantly over 18 years of age”.


However, it says that “all other applicants should be afforded the benefit of the doubt and treated as children”.
The guide for Home Office officials adds: “All available sources of relevant information and evidence should be considered, since no single assessment technique, or combination of techniques, is likely to determine the applicant’s age with precision.”

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

Ultimately whether they're 16/17 or 19/20 is an unreliable means of determining eligibility anyway.

The culture many of these teens (lets go with that) are coming from and the life they will be accustomed to is very different to their Western counterparts of similar age and THIS is what should be considered.

While 16/17 year old kids in Europe may be texting their friends all day on Whatsapp, worrying about school and exams and dating, their migrant counterparts may be living very different - perhaps violent - lives with very different and hostile attitudes to things we take for granted in the West

It's these criteria that are the most important for determining how well someone may integrate into a host nation and it's the failure by the well-intentioned liberal advocates of such proposals to recognise and adopt to this that have led to the violent and social unrest we've seen in Europe in the past year/18 months.

But again, while we should certainly try to help IF we can (and without putting our own native and legitimate citizens at a disadvantage), there is no basis for resettling these migrants in Europe at the expense and security of those same native citizens.

Snake Plisken

It would be different if we were actually taking in women and children (and I don't mean your 17 year old going on 27 children like the UK got), still don't understand why we are taking these men in if they are in france that's up to France and the UK to sort out! Fitzgerald & Zappone haven't a clue!

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ultimately whether they're 16/17 or 19/20 is an unreliable means of determining eligibility anyway.

The culture many of these teens (lets go with that) are coming from and the life they will be accustomed to is very different to their Western counterparts of similar age and THIS is what should be considered.

While 16/17 year old kids in Europe may be texting their friends all day on Whatsapp, worrying about school and exams and dating, their migrant counterparts may be living very different - perhaps violent - lives with very different and hostile attitudes to things we take for granted in the West

It's these criteria that are the most important for determining how well someone may integrate into a host nation and it's the failure by the well-intentioned liberal advocates of such proposals to recognise and adopt to this that have led to the violent and social unrest we've seen in Europe in the past year/18 months.

But again, while we should certainly try to help IF we can (and without putting our own native and legitimate citizens at a disadvantage), there is no basis for resettling these migrants in Europe at the expense and security of those same native citizens.

Fair point.

Any videos I've seen from truckers, (who have no political axe to grind), any conversations I've had with truckers who pass through Calais - all of them basically show/say the same thing.
These guys are not refugees, the vast majority are not children, they're violent criminals, who will do whatever it takes to achieve their wishes.

Why anyone would assume that they're suddenly going to become model citizens on arrival in Ireland is mind-boggling.

Mary63

Its not so much the liberals denying there will be a problem thats the real issue, its denying what has actually happened as we saw in Cologne.That is the really scary thing, the public can't be protected from these"men" and when the inevitable happens those in authority say the victims are telling lies.

Mary63, how do you feel about the Catholic church?

recedite

Lets stay on topic.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Its not so much the liberals denying there will be a problem thats the real issue, its denying what has actually happened as we saw in Cologne.That is the really scary thing, the public can't be protected from these"men" and when the inevitable happens those in authority say the victims are telling lies.

Those pesky liberals eh? I'm sick of them too. Give them hell Mary! I bet they'll even complain when you come up with final solution to the Muslim issue in the mother land.

You can trust me to be honest with you Mary, I'm a socialist. It's those Weasley liberals that are the real problem. I bet we'll look back in 50 years and recognise it was the liberals that caused all of these mass immigration problems. Especially that Angela Merkel, she may pretend to be a Christian democrat but I bet she's really a liberal. And Fianna Gael, they're really liberals and not Christian democrats too.

Liberal after liberal denying that any attacks took place in Cologne, I never saw them do it but you must be right. Hiding it from us as well. It may have been on every tv and radio station and
covered in every major newspaper, but that's them hiding it in plain sight. We know what they're up to eh?

/sarcasm

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You made a very definitive statement:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/from-the-calais-jungle-to-croydon-migrant-children-arrive-in-bri/

If the Home Office cannot definitively assess their ages, do you have information that proves we can verify, without question, that all these lads are 16 and 17 years old?

I don't. It's not up to me to vet them. That's the department of justice job. You're going to need some fairly hefty evidence to contradict them. I'm placing my faith in the dept of justice, you're deciding out of thin air that these boys are older than they say they.

rarariot

Half of the "teens" that were let into Britain looked like older versions of Diego Costa. I doubt the department of justice over here would be much better at vetting them.