Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

b_mac2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Awful bang of racism from your posts Mary, the mask is slipping.

There you go.

My call out still stands, you're a spoof.

Mary63

Exactly bubblypop, it was Timberrrr who posted the heartrending tale about how Polish and Chinese people are treated by Irish construction staff.I posted what someone experienced at the hands of Polish colleagues to provide balance.

alastair

b_mac2 wrote: »

There you go.

My call out still stands, you're a spoof.

Thing is - those posts are undeniably racist.

Re: Calais unaccompanied minors - no problem here with taking them in, nor with pulling such a percentage of our Syrian refugee numbers from Calais rather than Turkey/Jordan. My only query is on the costs mooted for this 20 - they seem entirely overblown and plucked out of the air.

Great cavalcade of knee jerk bile evident in this thread though. Doing the country proud.

jmayo

Mary63 wrote: »

The PC brigade are hilarious, Irish people are among the most racist on the planet and we are so awful to want immigration of non nationals controlled.

An Irish person is made to feel uncomfortable in their workplace by a group of Polish colleagues we should have laid out the red carpet to welcome.Instead of the Poles trying to make an effort to speak in english, a language they are fully competent in, they speak in Polish knowing this makes a work environment very unpleasant for the single Irish person who doesn't speak Polish.Its the fault of the Irish person that they don't learn Polish and the fact that they haven't done this and feel isolated means they are paranoid.

You really couldn't make this nonsense up.

Why do the UK authorities have a problem with the number of Poles coming into the UK.The Poles pose no danger to their host country as afar as I know though they do seem to have a huge problem with alcohol and are regularly in Court facing serious charges.Seemingly they don't pay car insurance either, all those VW small cars you see being driven so dangerously are being driven by Poles with no insurance.

ETA http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/court-hears-of-17-individuals-in-one-room-in-dublin-house-1.2948095

Hopefully if all these people are illegal immigrants they an all be deported now.More than likely though they will be put on the councils housing list and given emergency accommodation.

Come on now.
I am definitely not a fan of muslim immigrants and some African asylum seeking welfare and passports, but the Poles and indeed other European nationalities have added a fair bit to this country.
Any of those immigrants, and lets be fair those from further afield in Asia or South America and some Africans have worked damn hard when they get here.

They are just doing what Irish have done for a big chunk of our history.
They come to work, send money back home to the folks and make a better life for themselves and their families.

And seriously can you not see the irony of having a go at Poles for having alcohol problems.

And as for the British not being happy about Poles, they should remember how many of them died to help Britain in WWII and how the British government together with the yanks sold out the Poles to Stalin.

jmayo

alastair wrote: »

Thing is - those posts are undeniably racist.

Re: Calais unaccompanied minors - no problem here with taking them in, nor with pulling such a percentage of our Syrian refugee numbers from Calais rather than Turkey/Jordan. My only query is on the costs mooted for this 20 - they seem entirely overblown and plucked out of the air.

Great cavalcade of knee jerk bile evident in this thread though. Doing the country proud.

For a start a lot of the so called minors from Calais and indeed off the boats to Europe have been proven to be bogus and frauds.
Two prime examples are the Berlin truck attacker who claimed he was minor when he first arrived in Italy although he was 19.
The supposed 15 year old refugee who stabbed the aid worker to death in Sweden was deemed to be an adult by the state and this is roll over and take it Sweden we are talking about.
One of the lone wolf attacks in Germany by so called minor was proven to be an adult.
The list goes on and on.

Also there were "refugees" (not refugees but economic migrants) in Calais before Syria really kicked off and lets just say a lot of them are a little too African looking to be Syrian

You are basically buying into the media, political, celebrity driven drivel that every one is a Syrian.
It is heartstring tugging at it's very worst.
And the left then complain about false information from the right. :rolleyes:

Of course when that Syrian myth is challenged the go to remark is that they are not all Syrians, but nevertheless they are refugees as they are fleeing warzones.
That can work when they are from Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chad, Sudan, Mali, Somalia.
But what about when they are fleeing Nigeria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Kosovo ?

And after you look at the nationalities why not ask what is the gender breakdown and the age breakdown.
Compare these "refugees" to pictures of refugees from any other previous eras.
Hell why not compare it to Bosniac refugees.
They were also muslim, but yet they were primarily women, children and the old.

AnGaelach

Confused mum84 wrote: »

1. Shouldn't we be prioritising the youngest & therefore most vulnerable of children ? Have seen reports of children as young as 12 being unaccompanied.

Well you can hardly pass a 34 year old man off as a 12 year old, but they could probably pass for 17.

Confused mum84 wrote: »

2. Why will majority be male? It's been well documented that unaccompanied girls faces huge risks of sexual assault & human trafficking . Again , shouldn't this young group be prioritised as much as almost adult males

Because the vast, vast majority of migrants in general are male

Confused mum84 wrote: »

3. It's well known that there are people in their 20's & well into their 30's claiming to be "17 year old children" . Why are we intentionally rewarding this decit by prioritising this age group..these people are stopping a genuine child from getting a proper place in a host country . Of course we need to include some 17 year olds but why prioritise this age ...

Because the bleeding heart buffoons have been intentionally rewarding deceit and illegality since this crisis started. Encouraging hundreds of thousands of make a dangerous trip by refusing to bar them entry. Encouraging the human traffickers to continue operating by sending vessels to rescue migrants and then taking them to Europe instead of returning them back. By (in Sweden at least) telling police to just accept any claim of being a child so long as the man doesn't look older than 40. By covering up crimes committed by groups for fear of a "right-wing backlash".

Confused mum84 wrote: »

Makes me think it's all down to money & a box ticking exercise . The cost of "caring for a 17 year old child " is going to be far far less cheaper in the medium to long term for the government . Thus the government can get a "pat on the back " for doing their bit while keeping costs as low as possible

It's a feel-good response from the rationally inept and the morally superior that has caused more harm than good. No doubt Miss Zappone will find a comfortable job with an NGO after her stint in the Dáil (if she doesn't simply go back to the Seanad of course).

alastair

jmayo wrote: »

For a start a lot of the so called minors from Calais and indeed off the boats to Europe have been proven to be bogus and frauds.
Two prime examples are the Berlin truck attacker who claimed he was minor when he first arrived in Italy although he was 19.
The supposed 15 year old refugee who stabbed the aid worker to death in Sweden was deemed to be an adult by the state and this is roll over and take it Sweden we are talking about.
One of the lone wolf attacks in Germany by so called minor was proven to be an adult.
The list goes on and on.

Also there were "refugees" (not refugees but economic migrants) in Calais before Syria really kicked off and lets just say a lot of them are a little too African looking to be Syrian

You are basically buying into the media, political, celebrity driven drivel that every one is a Syrian.
It is heartstring tugging at it's very worst.
And the left then complain about false information from the right. :rolleyes:

Of course when that Syrian myth is challenged the go to remark is that they are not all Syrians, but nevertheless they are refugees as they are fleeing warzones.
That can work when they are from Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chad, Sudan, Mali, Somalia.
But what about when they are fleeing Nigeria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Kosovo ?

And after you look at the nationalities why not ask what is the gender breakdown and the age breakdown.
Compare these "refugees" to pictures of refugees from any other previous eras.
Hell why not compare it to Bosniac refugees.
They were also muslim, but yet they were primarily women, children and the old.

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me. Sorry about that. I'm also rather bemused by how you managed to determine how I form my views on refugees, but let's just say that you're not winning any prizes for special insights there.

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me.

Their age, legitimacy and culture doesn't seem to be either. So what is important to you, exactly?

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

Because the bleeding heart buffoons have been intentionally rewarding deceit and illegality since this crisis started. Encouraging hundreds of thousands of make a dangerous trip by refusing to bar them entry. Encouraging the human traffickers to continue operating by sending vessels to rescue migrants and then taking them to Europe instead of returning them back. By (in Sweden at least) telling police to just accept any claim of being a child so long as the man doesn't look older than 40. By covering up crimes committed by groups for fear of a "right-wing backlash".

You seem a little confused about the responsibilities and obligations involved in asylum law. It's not 'bleeding heart buffooons' that enforce the obligation to review asylum applications - it's the application of the law. It's not an option to return refugees to Libya - it's once again a matter of adhereing to the law. So in a choice of letting people drown, or bringing them to Italy, what's your call? Nobody is covering up any crimes btw.

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

Their age, legitimacy and culture doesn't seem to be either.

What leads you to believe that? Other than projection?

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

What leads you to believe that? Other than projection?

Because most of the "child" migrants are adults, they're in Europe illegally, and their culture has a history of incompatibility with us, and you seem to have no issue with those factors.

So, what does matter to you? Their crocodile tears?

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

Because most of the "child" migrants are adults, they're in Europe illegally, and their culture has a history of incompatibility with us.

So, what does matter to you? Their crocodile tears?

You've some evidence in relation to these 20 people that haven't been selected yet? That's some trick. The vast majority of refugee and asylum seekers in this, and every other European state, entered illegally - but the right of illegal entry for the purposes of seeking asylum is protected under international law. So if you've got a problem with the legality in this case, you're going to have to concede that you've got a problem with pretty much all refugees and asylum seekers. Not buying your broad brushstroke 'cultural incompatibility' either. The Syrian community in Ireland has been no bother historically. http://swansongfilms.ie/syrian-voices-ireland/

Your knee jerk assumptions are something of a bother to me. Does that count?

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

You've some evidence in relation to these 20 people that haven't been selected yet? That's some trick. The vast majority of refugee and asylum seekers in this, and every other European state, entered illegally - but the right of illegal entry for the purposes of seeking asylum is protected under international law. So if you've got a problem with the legality in this case, you're going to have to concede that you've got a problem with pretty much all refugees and asylum seekers.

Under what law? Unless it has been given domestic effect in legislation, it has no power in the Courts here - hence why there is a lag of many years between when Ireland signs a treaty and when it actually enters into force. But you already knew that, right?

alastair wrote: »

Not buying your broad brushstroke 'cultural incompatibility' either. The Syrian community in Ireland has been no bother historically.

Yeah, because there's been a significant number of them at all in the first place. I guess Ireland is going to be the special case and what has happened in every other Western country surely won't happen here :rolleyes:

Edit:

Is there a reason why you linked some website? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can make a video and a website.

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

Under what law? Unless it has been given domestic effect in legislation, it has no power in the Courts here - hence why there is a lag of many years between when Ireland signs a treaty and when it actually enters into force. But you already knew that, right?



Yeah, because there's been a significant number of them at all in the first place. I guess Ireland is going to be the special case and what has happened in every other Western country surely won't happen here :rolleyes:

Edit:

Is there a reason why you linked some website? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can make a video and a website.

Any reason? Well it's actual Syrians in Ireland articulating for themselves. Aside from that, nope.

What exactly do you believe has happened in every other western nation? It's all rather vague scaremongering tbh.

The applicable law? UN Refugee Convention (1951), enacted into national law many years ago.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/17/schedule/3/enacted/en/html

Timberrrrrrrr

b_mac2 wrote: »

There you go.

My call out still stands, you're a spoof.

Where did I say xxx is a racist?

Call what you like kiddo you don't know me from Adam.

Walter H Price

At 17 (if that's even all they are) there far from kids , bad decision on the part of the government I'm sure there of plenty of women and actual children we could have taken if we have to take some. Thees young unaccompanied men have not integrated well anywhere in Europe look at Sweden , rape capital of Europe now.

But hey ho cant really argue with cultural enrichment , if you do your a racist.

alastair

Walter H Price wrote: »

At 17 (if that's even all they are) there far from kids , bad decision on the part of the government I'm sure there of plenty of women and actual children we could have taken if we have to take some. Thees young unaccompanied men have not integrated well anywhere in Europe look at Sweden , rape capital of Europe now.

But hey ho cant really argue with cultural enrichment , if you do your a racist.

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

What exactly do you believe has happened in every other western nation? It's all rather vague scaremongering tbh.

Oh, you know, the ghettoisation, failure of integration, and occasional terrorist attack...

alastair wrote: »

The applicable law? UN Refugee Convention (1951), enacted into national law many years ago.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/17/schedule/3/enacted/en/html

I'm aware you're not good with the ole legal research so I'll quote the relevant part

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

[...]

1. The Contracting States shall not expel a refugee lawfully in their territory save on grounds of national security or public order.

This means that those leaving Syria can claim protection for being illegally in the first country they go to, not any and every country under the sun.



These "refugees" stopped having legal protection once they left Greece and Turkey.

Walter H Price

alastair wrote: »

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Barely and are we only taking ones with verified age cards ? why not look to help the real vulnerable , young children either alone or with unaccompanied women ? the Yazidi , Christians , atheists , homosexuals the ones fleeing the greatest threat.

To your second point it very much used to be but cultural enrichment sorted that out

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

alastair

Walter H Price wrote: »

Barely and are we only taking ones with verified age cards ? why not look to help the real vulnerable , young children either alone or with unaccompanied women ? the Yazidi , Christians , atheists , homosexuals the ones fleeing the greatest threat.

Again - how exactly are you to know that the 20 (yet to be selected) are not Yazidi, Christians, atheists, or homosexuals?

Walter H Price wrote: »

To your second point it very much used to be but cultural enrichment sorted that out

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

You're comparing apples and oranges. Swedish sexual assault stats will always come out on top of other European county, as long as they employ a different way of logging reported crimes. Every specific instance of sexual assault in an ongoing abusive relationship is counted as a single crime in Sweden - it counts as a single grouped crime elsewhere. And the actual instance of reported rapes has actually fallen slightly in Sweden since they changed over to their new classification system. It's down on 2005 figures - despite the large influx of refugees there in the last ten years. That doesn't really play into the whole scaremongering narrative though, does it?

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

Oh, you know, the ghettoisation, failure of integration, and occasional terrorist attack...



I'm aware you're not good with the ole legal research so I'll quote the relevant part



This means that those leaving Syria can claim protection for being illegally in the first country they go to, not any and every country under the sun.



These "refugees" stopped having legal protection once they left Greece and Turkey.

That's not actually the relevant part of the legislation, but thanks for trying. There's no legal obligation whatsoever under the 1951 convention for asylum seekers to make their claim in the first country they go to. That's the reason why every successful asylum seeker to Ireland, has attained asylum status.

jmayo

alastair wrote: »

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me. Sorry about that. I'm also rather bemused by how you managed to determine how I form my views on refugees, but let's just say that you're not winning any prizes for special insights there.

Of course their gender isn't important to you.
Shure aren't they all poor cratures from some warzone and haven't they had a terrible time in Calais.
Maybe you should actually have a chat with some truckers that experienced these poor minors, or better see how the citizens of Calais will miss them.

And the only prize you will be winning is one for gullibility.

alastair wrote: »

You seem a little confused about the responsibilities and obligations involved in asylum law. It's not 'bleeding heart buffooons' that enforce the obligation to review asylum applications - it's the application of the law. It's not an option to return refugees to Libya - it's once again a matter of adhereing to the law. So in a choice of letting people drown, or bringing them to Italy, what's your call? Nobody is covering up any crimes btw.

Ever hear the law is an ass ?

AFAIK we never signed up to take non EU migrants sitting in makeshift camps in other European states.

Personally I rather like the way Hungary have been looking at this issue.

alastair wrote: »

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Ah FFS.

As per the mods request on these type of threads please give us some stats to back up your assertion that Ireland has more instances of rape than Sweden.

alastair wrote: »

Again - how exactly are you to know that the 20 (yet to be selected) are not Yazidi, Christians, atheists, or homosexuals?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Swedish sexual assault stats will always come out on top of other European county, as long as they employ a different way of logging reported crimes. Every specific instance of sexual assault in an ongoing abusive relationship is counted as a single crime in Sweden - it counts as a single grouped crime elsewhere. And the actual instance of reported rapes has actually fallen slightly in Sweden since they changed over to their new classification system. It's down on 2005 figures - despite the large influx of refugees there in the last ten years. That doesn't really play into the whole scaremongering narrative though, does it?

Nah shure it's all grand in Sweden.

Perhaps you might tell that to the disabled lady gang raped by some of these refugees and then effectively raped by the law afterwards because she didn't put up enough of a fight.

What were you saying again earlier about laws and legal obligations ?

Mary63

I don't have a problem with Poles coming in Jmayo but it is true that they like the Irish abuse alcohol and this of course means their health care costs if born by the HSE will be very high, this is a fact, its not racism to state this.

As I said Timberrr to back up his statement that The Irish are among the most racist in the world used his observations on the building site to come to this conclusion.The Poles joined together in the workplace to give a colleague a hard time, they herded together just like the workers on the building site did.This is my point, the Irish are no more racist than anyone else, any Irish person working on a building site in Poland is probably going to be uncomfortable unless there are a lot of other Irish people there too.

People do tend to stick to their own nationality, race or whatever you call it and that is people from within European countries too.The Poles, the French, the Swiss, the Germans come here to work, generally don't intend to stay for the long term and they send money home to their families.They don't impose their religious beliefs on us or demand segregated schooling or dress codes for the women.

There isn't a chance in hel that any large influx of Muslims is going to lead to any benefits for this country.They won't integrate socially because they don't drink and every social occasion int his country is alcohol fuelled.They want their women to cover up so as soon as the girls hit puberty their freedom to go where they please is taken away.The boys are taught that any woman who doesn't cover up is worthless so for both boys and girls their community becomes very closed and eventually it becomes a ghetto.This has happened everywhere in Europe where the Muslims have gone in great numbers and its one of the reasons that the British people voted for Brexit.I am very sorry that we are losing the UK from the European Union but do understand why the ordinary British citizen has said enough.Those who bleat on about wanting open borders so everyone can come in don't live in disadvantaged areas and they spend their lives with the not in my backyard stuff.Its all very well to let every Hussain Abdul etc in when you can pay for private schools and private health care and you aren't looking for maternity care in an area where Muslim women are breeding non stop.

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

That's not actually the relevant part of the legislation, but thanks for trying.

You said they are given protection under international law, and I've just shown you that that protection does not encompass all countries, merely the first country they arrive directly in.

alastair wrote: »

There's no legal obligation whatsoever under the 1951 convention for asylum seekers to make their claim in the first country they go to.
That's the reason why every successful asylum seeker to Ireland, has attained asylum status.

No, but there is under the Dublin Protocols. I said that they are here illegally. You said that they're protected by international law, and I've provided evidence to the contrary.

Now, find proof that they are protected under law to illegally squat in a country, like you were asked to do so. Or are you just going to obfuscate, wait for me to get bored, and then peddle your lie again?

Chips Lovell

So no Poles because they drink too much?

And no Muslims because they don't drink enough?

Mary63

Under the Dublin convention the country the illegal immigrants lands have to take them.

Angela Merkel did a solo run on this and decided she was breaking this convention, she did this because Germany needs young people and Angela thought Germany would get the best of the newcomers.It all turned sour when one of the teens allowed in to be fostered attacked train passengers with an axe.Then came the Cologne Sex attacks and the Berlin truck driver and well you know the rest.Angela then decided that she didn't want the Syrians after all and she bribed the Turks to take them all by hinting that EU membership might come their way if they agreed.

I didn't say no to Poles, the Poles aren't going to molest Irish young women in tshirts and nor are they going to plant bombs in O Connell street to further the cost of mad men in ISIS.The real danger though of ISIS is not the immigrants coming in, its from the Muslims who were born in the West and grew up with all the advantages and yet hate their country of birth so much they are prepared to drive refrigerated trucks into crowds of people including babies in buggies.The very worrying thing is even though we know Muslims have lived in France etc for maybe almost thirty years and it was so easy to radicalise them, why does anyone actually believe the new arrivals aren't going to be radicalised too even if we give them free houses, access to health care, education and all the other benefits of modern European countries.Its all so depressingly predictable and we never learn, we just keep on appeasing these people and their demands get more and more extreme, i.e. if someone doesn't stop drawing cartoons they will be shot to death in their workplace.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

The Poles joined together in the workplace to give a colleague a hard time

Really?
You said they spoke to each other in polish. Where did they give the poor Irish person a hard time?

AnGaelach

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
You said they spoke to each other in polish. Where did they give the poor Irish person a hard time?

If four Gaeilgoirí started speaking solely to each other in Irish when there was a German in the room who couldn't speak it, would you say they're doing no harm or that they're being rude?

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

the Poles aren't going to molest Irish young women in tshirts and nor are they going to plant bombs in O Connell street

Gee Mary if you actually know this then you may have the answer to the crime problem in Ireland.
If you can predict who will and will not commit crime in future then you are wasted on an internet forum!

Mary63

oh lord bubblypop, are you permanently this obtuse, I am really beginning to understand how Trump was voted in, its like talking to a brick wall.

Can you not understand how isolated you feel when everyone around you is speaking in a language you don't understand.I had this recently in a queue in Bray of all places and I couldn't wait to leave.I couldn't imagine what it would be like to face into work everyday and have no one address a single word in a language you could understand.If you can't understand that then good luck to you.End of.

I know who will plant the bombs in Dublin on behalf of Isis, I only have to look at the history of the people who planted bombs in Berlin, Brussels, Paris and the UK.Why on earth anyone thinks that won't happen here is beyond me, its only a matter of time and the people who are willing to do it are probably in here already.

I see the airport officials who smuggled people in are in Court today, I hope the book is thrown at them, they are endangering us for the sake of bagfuls of money, shame on them.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

Muslim women are breeding non stop.

These are people you are talking about. People. Not animals.
That's a disgusting way to speak about people

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

oh lord bubblypop, are you permanently this obtuse, I am really beginning to understand how Trump was voted in, its like talking to a brick wall.

Can you not understand how isolated you feel when everyone around you is speaking in a language you don't understand.I had this recently in a queue in Bray of all places and I couldn't wait to leave.I couldn't imagine what it would be like to face into work everyday and have no one address a single word in a language you could understand.If you can't understand that then good luck to you.End of.

That's tough Mary, you didn't understand them, so what? If you felt uncomfortable then that's your problem.
I was in college with Irish speakers who spoke to each other in Irish, I didn't understand.
Did I get paranoid? Or did I even care? No!
I've been in many many different countries where I didn't understand the language, so what?

Mary63

I didn't work with them I am glad to say, it was a young relative who did.If you were surrounded in college by Irish speakers you had the choice to find someone you could communicate with.You also choose to travel and again if someone you met on your travels could communicate with you in your language most people have enough civility to make the effort.
You have no choice in a workplace except to ask management on your behalf to request that the colleagues converse in a common language,you are obviously a very rude self centred person so you don't get how a sensitive working person would find this working environment intolerable so no point in debating this any further with you.
I wish you had as much consideration for Irish people as you have for immigrants.

The muslim women do breed non stop, what is the issue with that, we breed just as every other animal species does.The German and the italian native population and the French too have stopped breeding in sufficient numbers, this is a huge problem in France now as the Muslims are now twenty per cent of the population.If this keeps up and we continue to allow uncontrolled immigration white europeans are going to become a minority in Europe and with that goes our way of life and in comes the muslim way of life, thats not a very comforting thought.

b_mac2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Call what you like kiddo you don't know me from Adam.

I don't, but I do know you're not fluent in any of the languages you've claimed to be proficient in.

Sorry for going off topic. I just have quite a fondness for catching out liars.

rgossip30

Mary63 wrote: »

Under the Dublin convention the country the illegal immigrants lands have to take them.

Angela Merkel did a solo run on this and decided she was breaking this convention, she did this because Germany needs young people and Angela thought Germany would get the best of the newcomers.It all turned sour when one of the teens allowed in to be fostered attacked train passengers with an axe.Then came the Cologne Sex attacks and the Berlin truck driver and well you know the rest.Angela then decided that she didn't want the Syrians after all and she bribed the Turks to take them all by hinting that EU membership might come their way if they agreed.

I didn't say no to Poles, the Poles aren't going to molest Irish young women in tshirts and nor are they going to plant bombs in O Connell street to further the cost of mad men in ISIS.The real danger though of ISIS is not the immigrants coming in, its from the Muslims who were born in the West and grew up with all the advantages and yet hate their country of birth so much they are prepared to drive refrigerated trucks into crowds of people including babies in buggies.The very worrying thing is even though we know Muslims have lived in France etc for maybe almost thirty years and it was so easy to radicalise them, why does anyone actually believe the new arrivals aren't going to be radicalised too even if we give them free houses, access to health care, education and all the other benefits of modern European countries.Its all so depressingly predictable and we never learn, we just keep on appeasing these people and their demands get more and more extreme, i.e. if someone doesn't stop drawing cartoons they will be shot to death in their workplace.

Interesting that Germany until 2011 had restrictions on poles coming to work . I would have thought it more convenient for them to work in Germany .

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

I wish you had as much consideration for Irish people as you have for immigrants.

I have consideration for all people who deserve it, regardless of their nationality. I'm not sure why you think I should treat people differently based on what country they happened to be born in!

alastair

AnGaelach wrote: »

You said they are given protection under international law, and I've just shown you that that protection does not encompass all countries, merely the first country they arrive directly in.



No, but there is under the Dublin Protocols. I said that they are here illegally. You said that they're protected by international law, and I've provided evidence to the contrary.

Now, find proof that they are protected under law to illegally squat in a country, like you were asked to do so. Or are you just going to obfuscate, wait for me to get bored, and then peddle your lie again?

The Dublin protocols are not applicable to asylum seekers. They're an agreement between states, and don't imply any matter of illegality in aslysum seekers actions. And the 1951 convention is explicit in allowing for irregular entry for the purposes of seeking asylum, irrespective of whether that asylum is subsequently granted, or if the asylum seeker is referred back to a transit state. I'd once again point to you the telling fact of the asylum status granted to thousands of people who came to this country via intermediate third countries.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Ireland doesn't even make the list. Sweden, on the other hand....


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland doesn't even make the list. Sweden, on the other hand....


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Once again - apples and oranges. Sweden classifies and logs instances of reported rapes in a completely different fashion to other states. One Irish report could equate to dozens of Swedish ones.

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/

johnnyskeleton

Mary63 wrote: »

oh lord bubblypop, are you permanently this obtuse, I am really beginning to understand how Trump was voted in, its like talking to a brick wall.

b_mac2 wrote: »

I don't, but I do know you're not fluent in any of the languages you've claimed to be proficient in.

Sorry for going off topic. I just have quite a fondness for catching out liars.

Mod Note:

Please stop the personal jibes or calling people liars on thread. There is a report post function if you feel someone is breaking the rules.

Walter H Price

alastair wrote: »

Once again - apples and oranges. Sweden classifies and logs instances of reported rapes in a completely different fashion to other states. One Irish report could equate to dozens of Swedish ones.

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/

Ok it's apples and oranges on the rape stats , but its somewhat universally accepted that the immigration policy pursued by Sweden , particularly Islamic immigration has had a very negative impact on a once very peaceful homogeneous society

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

Not worked out great in Germany either , crime and unemployment being just about all they have contributed

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/only-one-in-eight-refugees-find-jobs-in-germany-1.2869106

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/644827/refugees-committed-crimes-Germany-migrant-crisis-last-year

How about France , those armed soliders at disneyland and the Eifel tower sure made me feel that cultural enrichment was working well there.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/647381/Calais-migrants-refugees-violence-French-port-town-Jungle-camp-eviction-halted

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-children-being-sexually-exploited-and-forced-into-crime-by-traffickers-in-northern-france-a7079446.html

The UK how are they getting on

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/695066/Police-arrest-900-Syrians-in-England-and-Wales-for-rape-death-threats-and-child-abuse

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637105/Why-did-police-quiet-sex-attack-Syrian-UK-refugees-Girl-14-assaulted-gang-kept-crime-list-covered-BBC-Newsnight-team.html

Bury your head in the sand all you want , call me what ever name you like but i will not accept that bringing in "Refugees" all male and all young unaccompanied adults is a good idea because the evidence is plain to see from the streets of Paris and Berlin to Calais, London etc.. same demographic group, same religion , same pattern. If its all going so swell why are Wilders and Le Penn surging in the Netherlands and France , why is Trump president why did immigrantion play such a huge role in the UK voting for Brexit why is Mama Merkel hanging on by the skin of her teeth ?

alastair

Walter H Price wrote: »

Bury your head in the sand all you want , call me what ever name you like but i will not accept that bringing in "Refugees" all male and all young unaccompanied adults is a good idea because the evidence is plain to see from the streets of Paris and Berlin to Calais, London etc.. same demographic group, same religion , same pattern. If its all going so swell why are Wilders and Le Penn surging in the Netherlands and France , why is Trump president why did immigrantion play such a huge role in the UK voting for Brexit why is Mama Merkel hanging on by the skin of her teeth ?

I've no need to bury my head at all. I'm simply pointing out that you're misrepresenting the reality of the situation, either knowingly, or unwittingly. I'm pretty sure we can cope just fine with these 20 lads, or indeed, the 200, if that's the full number of Calais refugees we've committed to take in. I've no doubt that Merkel is assured of another term, she's still remarkably popular - currently a full 20 points ahead of her primary challenger.

As to your Express link:

The Daily Star was wrong to claim hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for sexual offences in the UK but corrected the error itself after a complaint was raised with press regulator IPSO.

An article in the newspaper, published on 31 July, included the headline: “Hundreds of Syrians arrested for rape and child abuse in UK”.

It included police statistics that showed 987 people of Syrian heritage were arrested in England and Wales last year for crimes including rape, death threats and child abuse.

However complainant Elizabeth Hubbard said the headline was not supported by the text, with arrests specifically for sexual offences not numbering in the hundreds.

She told the Independent Press Standards Organisation: “There was no evidence in the article that hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for rape and child abuse in the UK.”

The newspaper said it acknowledged the original headline was “misleading” because it “inaccurately stated that hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for sexual offences”.


The Daily Star amended the headline to “Police arrest 900 Syrians in England and Wales for crimes including rape and child abuse” and added a correction to the foot of the article recording the amendment.

It read: “This article was amended on 10 August 2016. The headlined originally said ‘Hundreds of Syrians arrested for rape and child abuse in the UK.’

“In fact whilst hundreds of Syrians have been arrested for criminal offences in England and Wales the majority of the offences that Syrians were arrested for was immigration violations, but there were other serious crimes.

“For example, in London 238 Syrians were arrested including two for rape and seven for sex offences. The original headline was inaccurate and has been changed.”

As the matter was resolved IPSO did not rule on whether there was a breach of the Editor’s Code of Conduct.

Mary63

The politicians go to dinner parties with the liberal left, they don't go to dinner parties with the disenfranchised living in Fettercairn and Mulhuddart.

If we take in uncontrolled numbers of muslims its to Tallaght and Mulhuddart they will go because that is where the social housing stock is.They will overcrowd the local schools so new schools will have to be built.You will then have the white flight out of the schools the muslims predominately go to so they then become muslims schools and Gods knows what will be taught there, it won't be the principles of Bunreacht na HEireann that is for sure.The picture of the sacred heart, if there are any of those left will be replaced by a picture of the prophet.As I said all very predictable, see the reports of the Inspector of schools in the UK and their grave concerns about what is being taught in schools that have been taken over by the muslims.

The people of France, the Netherlands, Austria and the UK have spoken, some of the liberal left had the nerve to say people who voted for Brexit are so thick they shouldn't be allowed to vote.The liberal left are in la la land and they think their crazy view of the world makes them look educated.They have lofty ideas because they don't have a hand to mouth existence and nor do they have to queue for basic medical procedures, the people waiting on these procedures will now take their place behind all these immigrants Zappone is bringing in, Zappone doesn't live in Mulhuddart either so no fear of these muslims hanging around her area waiting to accost young women going about their business, she probably has health insurance and doesn't have children with special needs who are already in overcrowded classrooms without SNAS and without access to speech therapy etc.They can't get any phyciological support but the "teenage"refugees will have people brought to Roscommon to attend to every need because they are so "traumatised.its infuriating.

ancapailldorcha

walshb wrote: »

Assimilation and integration and mixing of cultures sounds brilliant....

If this is all you have to post then please don't. This is a forum for serious discussion, not sarcastic quips.

alastair

Mary63 wrote: »

The politicians go to dinner parties with the liberal left, they don't go to dinner parties with the disenfranchised living in Fettercairn and Mulhuddart.

I'm pretty certain that Zappone is more than familiar with Fettercairn, having worked in the community there for thirty odd years.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

Once again - apples and oranges. Sweden classifies and logs instances of reported rapes in a completely different fashion to other states. One Irish report could equate to dozens of Swedish ones.

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/

Just, :eek:

Sweden classifies and logs rapes in a completely different fashion to other States?

From your own link:

—> Changing definitions of rape: over the past 20 years, Sweden has broadened the definition of rape several times: actions that are comparable to rape (e. g. forced vaginal fisting) was classified as rape in 1998, sex with someone in a helpless state (e. g. sleeping or passed out due to alcohol or drugs) was classified as rape in 2005 and sex with someone in a particularly vulnerable situation (e. g. victim paralyzed with fear) was classified as rape in 2013. Since a higher proportion of sex crimes is classified as rape, the incidence of rape reports increases over time.

Are you honestly suggesting that surveys are more reliable than police reports? Because it's so much easier to go to the police station, and make yourself available for some pretty invasive tests, than to relive a traumatic experience for the benefit of some random stranger?:rolleyes:

Or is it that "forced vaginal fisting" is acceptable, or not as serious as whatever your definition of rape is?

Because none of the bolded classifications above qualify as consent.

Or maybe because being raped 20 times should count as one rape, in your worldview?

Your link is a rape apologists wet dream, dressed up as a "study", imo.
Disgusting!

What about German women?

https://gatestone.eu/germany-women-safety/

More than half of German women think that Germany has become a less safe place for them: 58 percent say that public places are less safe than they used to be. 31 percent say the situation is unchanged, only ten percent feel safer now.

Or German people?

Last year, a YouGov poll found that 68% of Germans believe that security in the country has deteriorated over the past two or three years. Also, 68% of respondents said they fear for their lives and property in German train stations and subways, while 63% feel unsafe at large public events.

Or maybe the Germans are all just imagining it?

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden classifies and logs rapes in a completely different fashion to other States?

Yes. It logs claims of multiple rapes as a series of individual rape reports - unlike other states. That obviously is not comparing like with like when it comes to statistics of reported rape.

AnGaelach

alastair wrote: »

The Dublin protocols are not applicable to asylum seekers. They're an agreement between states, and don't imply any matter of illegality in aslysum seekers actions. And the 1951 convention is explicit in allowing for irregular entry for the purposes of seeking asylum, irrespective of whether that asylum is subsequently granted, or if the asylum seeker is referred back to a transit state.

I've already cleared this matter for you, I've given you a direct quote from the legislation you are referencing. It refers to the right to travel to States when coming directly from your homeland, it does NOT grant you total immunity from immigration law.

alastair wrote: »

I'd once again point to you the telling fact of the asylum status granted to thousands of people who came to this country via intermediate third countries.

And we're not talking about that, are we? We're not saying whether they have a right to transit a country or not. We are discussing whether they are (as you posit) protected to illegally occupy an area - which they are not.

You can obfuscate as much as you wish, but until you quote a piece of legislation proving your claim, I will continue to call you out on your lie.

You are being deliberately deceptive. The law is not on your side in this argument, no matter how much you say "lalala" and keep your fingers in your ears.

Timberrrrrrrr

b_mac2 wrote: »

I don't, but I do know you're not fluent in any of the languages you've claimed to be proficient in.

Sorry for going off topic. I just have quite a fondness for catching out liars.

Cool story bro,


Pity you still know nothing about me and your silly little test proved nothing.;)

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe the Germans are all just imagining it?

Well, from your own link, yes. They're imagining it.