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Revamp for Moore Mall of Ilac Shopping Centre
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13-01-2017 1:51pm#1http://www.ilac.ie/redevelopment-moore-mall-ilac-centre-commences/
New outlets include BBs Coffee and Muffins, The Works Bookstore and So Nutrition health store.
Glad to see this as that section of the centre (apart from TK Maxx) still looked very shabby compared to the rest of the shopping centre.1
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Will they be giving the 'baco sellers their own store?0
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http://www.ilac.ie/redevelopment-moore-mall-ilac-centre-commences/
New outlets include BBs Coffee and Muffins, The Works Bookstore and So Nutrition health store.
Glad to see this as that section of the centre (apart from TK Maxx) still looked very shabby compared to the rest of the shopping centre.
The Works Bookstore?
I've never heard of these, do they have any more stores, unusual to see a new bookshop, particularly because they'll be so close to Chapters on Parnell Street.0 -
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There's one in the Omni and it looks interesting, kind of like a lower end Easons.0 -
fleet_admiral wrote: »Will they be giving the 'baco sellers their own store?
It is nice to see that someone else values the unique heritage and culture of Moore St. We need to preserve the dozen or so mobile phone repair shops and stalls selling rotten fruit or else we might have a shopping centre that will totally rejuvenate the North Inner City.
It is funny if you look at achieve photos of Moore St and where the Ilac is, the entire area has been a non-stop kip for the last 60 years.0 -
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newacc2015 wrote: »It is nice to see that someone else values the unique heritage and culture of Moore St. We need to preserve the dozen or so mobile phone repair shops and stalls selling rotten fruit or else we might have a shopping centre that will totally rejuvenate the North Inner City.
Don't forget the Afro Caribbean hair extension shops....0 -
The fruit isn't generally rotten tbf - and if you're buying rotten fruit, the onus is on you to ensure that you get better customer service. I've never bought rotten fruit from a trader there, and the street in general has been invaluable for well priced fresh produce for ever, and ethnic foodstuffs for couple of decades now. Sure it's a bit of a kip, and was worse in the brownfield carpark days before the ILAC, but that mix, with a bit of a tidy up and restoration of the remaining dereliction is a better route to rejuvenation than another cookie-cutter shopping centre. The deification of the 1916 connection, and barney over how much of the terrace demands historical landmark status is a different story, but keeping Moore St as a cheap and cheerful source of fresh and irregular produce is the best option for the city.0
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The fruit isn't generally rotten tbf - and if you're buying rotten fruit, the onus is on you to ensure that you get better customer service. I've never bought rotten fruit from a trader there, and the street in general has been invaluable for well priced fresh produce for ever, and ethnic foodstuffs for couple of decades now.
Have you ever walked the extra 5/10 mins to the fruit market on Capel St? There is some amazing fruit sellers with fruit fresh off the boat. They will also have boxes of fruit half rotten on the ground in the gutter. Ask them what that is for and they will tell you its only for the fruit sellers. I have gotten bags of free oranges and grapefruits that were destined for the fruit sellers.Sure it's a bit of a kip, and was worse in the brownfield carpark days before the ILAC, but that mix, with a bit of a tidy up and restoration of the remaining dereliction is a better route to rejuvenation than another cookie-cutter shopping centre. The deification of the 1916 connection, and barney over how much of the terrace demands historical landmark status is a different story, but keeping Moore St as a cheap and cheerful source of fresh and irregular produce is the best option for the city.
Redeveloping the street is key to redeveloping O'Connell St. Once that street of pseudo Victorian houses is flattened a shopping centre which will benefit the inner city can be built. Thousands of will be created and area can finally be attractive to live/shop in0 -
Nisbets opening a big store. Something other than STOCK for kitchen bits. Yay!0
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newacc2015 wrote: »Have you ever walked the extra 5/10 mins to the fruit market on Capel St? There is some amazing fruit sellers with fruit fresh off the boat. They will also have boxes of fruit half rotten on the ground in the gutter. Ask them what that is for and they will tell you its only for the fruit sellers. I have gotten bags of free oranges and grapefruits that were destined for the fruit sellers.
I doubt that. There's no fruit market on Capel street btw, it's on Mary's lane..
There's no shortage of shopping centres in the city centre. Moore street already has one, and O'Connell street has a custom-built department store ready and waiting for retail redevelopment. Moore street has had rather more to do with the revitalisation of inner city living over the past fifteen years than any shopping centre. So you'll have to forgive the scepticism that retaining street trading and ethnic produce in the city centre is costing any 'thousands' of jobs.newacc2015 wrote: »Redeveloping the street is key to redeveloping O'Connell St. Once that street of pseudo Victorian houses is flattened a shopping centre which will benefit the inner city can be built. Thousands of will be created and area can finally be attractive to live/shop in0 -
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I doubt that. There's no fruit market on Capel street btw, it's on Mary's lane..
You can take a look for yourself since it is pretty close to Moore. The fruit market is about 10 metres from Capel St and several streets with fruit sellers on tons of the other side streets. Its so much more than Mary's Lane btw...There's no shortage of shopping centres in the city centre. Moore street already has one, and O'Connell street has a custom-built department store ready and waiting for retail redevelopment.
Are you really calling the Ilac a decent shopping centre? There are strip malls in surburbs with better shops than the Ilac. I have yet to hear of a Dubliner ever saying I am going to town to shop in the Ilac and the Ilac only. Clerys was a horrific department store. The ceiling was too low and it is not particularly big for a modern department store. It is tiny compared to Arnotts.Moore street has had rather more to do with the revitalisation of inner city living over the past fifteen years than any shopping centre. So you'll have to forgive the scepticism that retaining street trading and ethnic produce in the city centre is costing any 'thousands' of jobs.
Eh? What exactly has Moore St continued to the revitalisation of the inner city? The street is literally just dodgy Chinese phone shops, low budget weave stores and poor quality ethic shops. These shops could moved to any other run down street in the area.
When these shops are finally flattened and moved to another area, the 110 unit with a massive purpose built modern department store with the like of John Lewis, new restaurants, cafes and 108 apartments.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/moore-street-complex-planning-approval-set-to-be-extended-1.2674868
Those weave shops can be anywhere in the city. A development of that size cant be. So those shops and 'value fruit sellers' selling the exact same fruit you can buy 5 mins are costing thousands of jobs...0 -
newacc2015 wrote: »You can take a look for yourself since it is pretty close to Moore. The fruit market is about 10 metres from Capel St and several streets with fruit sellers on tons of the other side streets. Its so much more than Mary's Lane btw...
Are you really calling the Ilac a decent shopping centre? There are strip malls in surburbs with better shops than the Ilac. I have yet to hear of a Dubliner ever saying I am going to town to shop in the Ilac and the Ilac only. Clerys was a horrific department store. The ceiling was too low and it is not particularly big for a modern department store. It is tiny compared to Arnotts.
Eh? What exactly has Moore St continued to the revitalisation of the inner city? The street is literally just dodgy Chinese phone shops, low budget weave stores and poor quality ethic shops. These shops could moved to any other run down street in the area.
When these shops are finally flattened and moved to another area, the 110 unit with a massive purpose built modern department store with the like of John Lewis, new restaurants, cafes and 108 apartments.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/moore-street-complex-planning-approval-set-to-be-extended-1.2674868
Those weave shops can be anywhere in the city. A development of that size cant be. So those shops and 'value fruit sellers' selling the exact same fruit you can buy 5 mins are costing thousands of jobs...
The Mary's Lane market is not on Capel street, and, as a wholsale market, provides the traders on Moore street with the their produce. It's the same produce. Those supposedly 'rotten' fruits that you reckon make their way to a Moore street are coming from the fruit wholesalers in the Mary's Lane market. Of course any cursory review of the produce on Moore street will make clear that there's sod all rotten fruit being sold.
Sorry you don't care for the Ilac, but it's got a wide range of shops, and is within feet of yet another shopping centre, a U.K. Department store, and the largest department store in the country. No real need for another department store on the same street. Clerys is a perfectly good department store - designed by the same architect as Selfridges, and entirely suited towards a new landmark retailer. John Lewis were never moving into the new O'Connell street / Moore street shopping centre btw. They're moving into two floors of Arnotts. In fact the proposed centre never actually had an anchor tenant, or any confirmed tenants, of any kind. Moore street has actually been busy catering for primarily non-national community living in the city who actually cook with fresh ingredients, and who have no desire to buy 'rotten' produce, or 'poor quality' ethnic foodstuff. That's an actual, existent, revitalisation of the inner city, not some empty unit pipe dream, providing precisely zero employment.0 -
The Mary's Lane market is not on Capel street, and, as a wholsale market, provides the traders on Moore street with the their produce. It's the same produce. Those supposedly 'rotten' fruits that you reckon make their way to a Moore street are coming from the fruit wholesalers in the Mary's Lane market. Of course any cursory review of the produce on Moore street will make clear that there's sod all rotten fruit being sold.
I know it is not on Capel St, it is just off it. I don't know why you are splitting hairs. The whole sellers in the market will tell you the fruit sellers are not selling the best fruit. Why is a whole seller in that market charging twice the price of fruit sellers on Moore St? As the fruit is super fresh and on the verge of rotting.Sorry you don't care for the Ilac, but it's got a wide range of shops, and is within feet of yet another shopping centre, a U.K. Department store, and the largest department store in the country. No real need for another department store on the same street. Clerys is a perfectly good department store - designed by the same architect as Selfridges, and entirely suited towards a new landmark retailer. John Lewis were never moving into the new O'Connell street / Moore street shopping centre btw. They're moving into two floors of Arnotts. In fact the proposed centre never actually had an anchor tenant, or any confirmed tenants, of any kind. Moore street has actually been busy catering for primarily non-national community living in the city who actually cook with fresh ingredients, and who have no desire to buy 'rotten' produce, or 'poor quality' ethnic foodstuff. That's an actual, existent, revitalisation of the inner city, not some empty unit pipe dream, providing precisely zero employment.
Were you ever in the basement of Clerys? You could touch the ceiling of it. It is not a modern style department store and the redevelopment is gutting a lot it. It is not even staying a department store. It is being turned into concessions / retail units and will likely be rented out in small bits. Unlike Brown Thomas which owns and runs pretty much the entire BT store
Are you sure about John Lewis never confirming? Because there is an article from 2008 stating they did confirm they were moving in that development
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/john-lewis-to-open-in-dublin-development-1.906670
I have a feeling that new shopping centre will have no issue finding an anchor tenant on one of the busiest street in one of the wealthiest nations in the world which is one of the most visited cities in Europe. Why would it? There will be massive competition to be the anchor tenant. Even if there is no anchor tenant, there is still 110 other stores and 108 apartments. The fact there is little or no empty units on Grafton or Henry St, shows there is a demand for retail space in the city.
You havent answered my question on why those shops need to be located on Moore St? Why can't those shops providing a few dozen jobs more to other streets? You have not provided a single reason why those traders and shops need to be on Moore St rather than any other street in Dublin. Maybe because there is no solid reason?
The redevelopment was scheduled to create 4500 jobs, that is a real revitalisation of the inner city.0 -
The redevelopment has provided no jobs to date, and there are plenty of empty units in the city centre already. Which department stores do you reckon will be in this 'massive competition' to anchor yet another shopping centre in the city centre. Because we know it's not BT's, Arnotts, Debenhams, John Lewis, Dunnes Stores, or Marks and Spencer's, all of which have premises nearby already. The only real possibilities are House of Fraser, who are in trouble as a group and unlikely to want another risky venture, or Harvey Nichols, who are already struggling with their Dundrum outlet.
Why should Moore street remain a market street? Well, because it's the historic market street in the city, and has an existing infrastructure geared towards that purpose. Why does a new shopping centre need to undermine an existing vibrant market street?
I note that your 'rotten fruit' line is now 'super fresh' fruit. Glad to see you're gradually moving towards some degree of realism. Was browsing on Moore street yesterday as it happens, and noted that none of the produce on the stalls looked over-ripe, let alone 'rotten'. Perhaps the Mary's Lane fruit merchant is charging you twice the price because they could spot a gullible punter? I thought you got your fruit for free there though?0 -
I never buy fruit in Moore St (no particular reason) but my American friend who was visiting once bought about 6 oranges there. When we were having breakfast the next morning we noticed 3 of them were rotten! In 25 years of buying fruit in supermarkets, I've never had any fruit I bought rot unless maybe I had left them uneaten for beyond a week since I bought them. Maybe that was an isolated incident but you wonder if the theory about the traders only selling near expiry fruit is true?0
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The redevelopment has provided no jobs to date, and there are plenty of empty units in the city centre already. Which department stores do you reckon will be in this 'massive competition' to anchor yet another shopping centre in the city centre. Because we know it's not BT's, Arnotts, Debenhams, John Lewis, Dunnes Stores, or Marks and Spencer's, all of which have premises nearby already. The only real possibilities are House of Fraser, who are in trouble as a group and unlikely to want another risky venture, or Harvey Nichols, who are already struggling with their Dundrum outlet.
Eh? No jobs to date? How would a shopping centre yet to be build be already providing jobs? It has provided jobs already in the form of architects, legal fees, accountants, etc. Yes there are empty units in the City, but none are of the calibre for most stores that would locate in a luxury shopping centre (they would be ideal for low rent mobile phone shops though....). Regardless of it they get the anchor tenant, I have already stated another 110 stores are going to be in the centre. Debenhams are having a issue with the Roche family. They might be happy to move on the same street basically.Why should Moore street remain a market street? Well, because it's the historic market street in the city, and has an existing infrastructure geared towards that purpose. Why does a new shopping centre need to undermine an existing vibrant market street?
What existing structure does Moore St have that is so unique, that those mobile phone shops and fruit sellers can't move elsewhere? Why does run down street of mobile phone shops, rotten fruit sellers and weave shops have to undermine the redevelopment of a huge amount of the North inner city, that will result in 108 new apartments and thousands of jobs? Those fruit sellers can move anywhere, that development can't.I note that your 'rotten fruit' line is now 'super fresh' fruit. Glad to see you're gradually moving towards some degree of realism. Was browsing on Moore street yesterday as it happens, and noted that none of the produce on the stalls looked over-ripe, let alone 'rotten'. Perhaps the Mary's Lane fruit merchant is charging you twice the price because they could spot a gullible punter? I thought you got your fruit for free there though?
The super fresh fruit is the fruit fresh off the ships in the market. Not what the fruit sellers are selling. Im sure if you take the trip to the fruit market you would be shocked at the quality of fruit you think is good on Moore St.
I regularly go to various sellers there to get the best price, so Im far from gullible. But thank you for your concern though! I often get free fruit off them. When Im picking up a box of great value pink lady's, they throw in a dozen or some grapefruits for free as they were going to "giving to the fruit sellers anyway".0 -
Yep no jobs to date, so actual existent jobs are rather more compelling than notional 'thousands' of jobs that 'might' be created 'if' this proposed shopping centre got tenants and was a success. But once again, it hasn't got any anchor, nor any other tenants, and there are multiple other shopping centres and department stores already in the vicinity. There's one singular market street that's been in business for a couple of hundred years.
Moore street has specific infrastructure that means it names no sense to try and move it. It's a central pedestrianised street with space for stalls both sides of the street, with a custom-built adjacent market stockyard, within close proximity to the fruit and veg wholesalers. The city centre has not got any equivalent site that would provide the same amenities. Nor is the street anything like you describe it. It's by far the most diverse retail destination for ethnic foodstuffs in the one vicinity, and has both premium butchers and specialist fresh produce merchants. It's the unarguable epicentre of immigrant shoppping in the city centre, with provision for Asian, Eastern European, Brazilian, Halal, African, Mauritian, etc produce, that's difficult to source elsewhere. The popularity of the street with non-national punters is testament to the model for clustering affordable fresh and specialist ingredients in one location. Likewise the fiction that the market street in some way jeopardises the proposed shopping centre development is more than a bit silly. What's stopping the development is not the existence of the market, it's the financial uncertainty of the centre itself as a profitable project. Without a compelling USP, it's potentially yet another retail white elephant. That's why they don't have an anchor tenant ready to go.0 -
Yep no jobs to date, so actual existent jobs are rather more compelling than notional 'thousands' of jobs that 'might' be created 'if' this proposed shopping centre got tenants and was a success. But once again, it hasn't got any anchor, nor any other tenants, and there are multiple other shopping centres and department stores already in the vicinity.
Well it got John Lewis to sign in 2008... Do you honestly think that a shopping centre in one of the most visited cities in Europe and one of the wealthiest cities in Europe is going to lie empty? St. Stephens, Jervis etc were basically full even in the harsh recession. It is ridiculous to think that the shopping centre won't get tenants. How are we going to know if it is a success or not if we don't build it? The 108 apartments alone are much needed.Moore street has specific infrastructure that means it names no sense to try and move it. It's a central pedestrianised street with space for stalls both sides of the street, with a custom-built adjacent market stockyard, within close proximity to the fruit and veg wholesalers.
So its just street? There is nothing so unique that it can't be moved elsewhere... Any other pedestrianised street with an empty site will do. The days of the fruit sellers are limited anyway. I would be surprised if there is any in 10/15 years time.Nor is the street anything like you describe it. It's by far the most diverse retail destination for ethnic foodstuffs in the one vicinity, and has both premium butchers and specialist fresh produce merchants. It's the unarguable epicentre of immigrant shoppping in the city centre, with provision for Asian, Eastern European, Brazilian, Halal, African, Mauritian, etc produce, that's difficult to source elsewhere. The popularity of the street with non-national punters is testament to the model for clustering affordable fresh and specialist ingredients in one location. Likewise the fiction that the market street in some way jeopardises the proposed shopping centre development is more than a bit silly. What's stopping the development is not the existence of the market, it's the financial uncertainty of the centre itself as a profitable project. Without a compelling USP, it's potentially yet another retail white elephant. That's why they don't have an anchor tenant ready to go.
Are you aware that shopping centre is literally demolishing about a 1/4 to an 1/8 of the street? Pretty much all the butchers will remain. As for the Asian/Brazilians shops. There are plenty of them 5 mins walk on Capel St or Parnell St. You make it sound as if it is the only place in Dublin 1 with ethnic stores. People can walk the extra 5 mins to get the exact same produce in other stores...
They need to flatten part of Moore St to have the shopping centre being able to go from O'Connell St to Moore St. It is part of the plan of the redevelopment. Without taking out a few phone shops and weave shops the shopping centre will not be built. What other retail white elephants are there in the city? If there was no recession and drying up of funding. This shopping centre would have been built in 2009/2010.0 -
newacc2015 wrote: »So its just street? There is nothing so unique that it can't be moved elsewhere... Any other pedestrianised street with an empty site will do. The days of the fruit sellers are limited anyway. I would be surprised if there is any in 10/15 years time.
No, it's not 'just the street'. It's a pedestrianised street with ancillary market depot within close proximity to the wholesalers, and in the midst of city retailers. And there are no other pedestrianised streets with space available that meet that criteria. The fruit sellers are busier now than they have been for years. They're not going away any time soon.0 -
No, it's not 'just the street'. It's a pedestrianised street with ancillary market depot within close proximity to the wholesalers, and in the midst of city retailers. And there are no other pedestrianised streets with space available that meet that criteria.
DCC are constantly pedestrianising new streets. Move them to one of them.The fruit sellers are busier now than they have been for years. They're not going away any time soon.The scaffolding still hadn’t budged and Marie said that her business was down by about 50% in the 11 months since in had gone up.
http://www.thejournal.ie/moore-street-trader-2-3194377-Jan2017/
Really? Because it is the complete opposite of what the sellers are saying on thejournal.ie today... Some even acknowledge their children wont be doing it.
I would advise you not to read the comments as you might be shook, as a majority of Dubliners dont have a positive thing to say about the fruit sellers in the comments. Between their poor hygiene and poor quality produce, most of the readers want the fruit sellers gone.0 -
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No they're not. Care to list the instances of this 'constant' pedestrianisation? And it's not just the pedestrianisation of a new street - it's the pedestrianisation of a new street, the building of ancillary services, and the agreement of exiting retailers on that street to the introduction of market stalls.newacc2015 wrote: »DCC are constantly pedestrianising new streets. Move them to one of them.
It's not the opposite of what's being said in the article. The trader quoted has a perfectly valid complaint about the temporary scaffolding impinging into her stall's location. She's losing business to other stalks as a consequence. But business on the stalls is better now than it was for years. The immigrant communities in the city have re-invigorated the market. Just forget your fantasy about rotten fruit and weave shops and actually take note of what's happening on the street any day of the week (except Sunday's). You might learn something. As to inane forum comments from a minority? Not exactly news that now, is it?newacc2015 wrote: »http://www.thejournal.ie/moore-street-trader-2-3194377-Jan2017/
Really? Because it is the complete opposite of what the sellers are saying on thejournal.ie today... Some even acknowledge their children wont be doing it.
I would advise you not to read the comments as you might be shook, as a majority of Dubliners dont have a positive thing to say about the fruit sellers in the comments. Between their poor hygiene and poor quality produce, most of the readers want the fruit sellers gone.
I've been shopping with market traders on Moore street for decades. Shopped with market traders in a Berwick street and Chapel street before then, when I lived in London. I'm confident that I'll be able to continue to shop on Moore street stalls for many years to come. I'm also confident that I'm a savvy enough consumer to not buy 'rotten' fruit, so don't have concerns in that regard.0 -
No they're not. Care to list the instances of this 'constant' pedestrianisation? And it's not just the pedestrianisation of a new street - it's the pedestrianisation of a new street, the building of ancillary services, and the agreement of exiting retailers on that street to the introduction of market stalls.
College Green is being pedestrianised. A lot of around Grand Canal Dock is newly pedestrianised. Around St. Stephens Green has been pedestrianised, Smithfield etc. DCC is making Dublin City less car friendly each year and Im sure DCC can find a place suitable for these sellers
Im sure with all the money DCC are going to get in rates from the 111 new stores and the LPT on 108 new apartments, that they can afford to new a depot for these sellers. Since this new development will generate so much tax revenue for the state.It's not the opposite of what's being said in the article. The trader quoted has a perfectly valid complaint about the temporary scaffolding impinging into her stall's location. She's losing business to other stalks as a consequence. But business on the stalls is better now than it was for years.
Where does she say she is losing it to other stalls exactly? Because I dont see that in the article. Neither do I see business is the best in years. She actually says "The whole street is dying and we’re all struggling." Which is basically the opposite of what you are saying.The immigrant communities in the city have re-invigorated the market. Just forget your fantasy about rotten fruit and weave shops and actually take note of what's happening on the street any day of the week (except Sunday's). You might learn something. As to inane forum comments from a minority? Not exactly news that now, is it?
There is no point continuing this discussion. You are telling me the traders business are the best in years, yet they are saying the complete opposite... That fruit is amazing quality, yet the majority are saying the opposite. So you call them the minority and that opinion is not valid. You are telling me that Moore St is 'invigorated' when most of Dublin think is a hole that should have been flattened decades ago.
Ask any Dubliner would they rather have a modern shopping centre with thousands of jobs and a redevelopment of the North Inner City that they are proud or a place to buy cheap fruit if you are savvy consumer? The fact you are telling me you have to be a savvy consumer to ensure you dont buy rotten fruit off them says a lot.0 -
College Green is not being fully pedestrianised - a bus corridor will remain, and taxis will be able to use it. There's no new pedestrianisation around Grand Canal Dock. The bit that is pedestrian only was never a road, and the land is private and nothing to do with DCC in any case. Stephens Green isn't pedestrianised either, there's only a small car free area in front of the College of Sugeons. Smithfield likewise continues to have through vehicle traffic. So there's really nothing to support your claim that DCC are 'constantly' pedestrianising the city.newacc2015 wrote: »College Green is being pedestrianised. A lot of around Grand Canal Dock is newly pedestrianised. Around St. Stephens Green has been pedestrianised, Smithfield etc. DCC is making Dublin City less car friendly each year and Im sure DCC can find a place suitable for these sellers
But the bottom line us that DCC's plan for Moore street is to retain the market stalls on the best street available - Moore street.newacc2015 wrote: »There is no point continuing this discussion. You are telling me the traders business are the best in years, yet they are saying the complete opposite... That fruit is amazing quality, yet the majority are saying the opposite. So you call them the minority and that opinion is not valid. You are telling me that Moore St is 'invigorated' when most of Dublin think is a hole that should have been flattened decades ago.
Ask any Dubliner would they rather have a modern shopping centre with thousands of jobs and a redevelopment of the North Inner City that they are proud or a place to buy cheap fruit if you are savvy consumer? The fact you are telling me you have to be a savvy consumer to ensure you dont buy rotten fruit off them says a lot.
There's little point if you'd prefer to just make **** up. The reality is that the trade in the market is far busier than it was for years. The trader in the article is complaining about the impact on her business by the scaffold - that's only impacting some of the traders - other traders benefit from their not being impacted by the scaffold. No 'majority' - of either Dubliner, nor commenters on the Journal piece make any claim that the market produce isn't fresh, or that it should be 'flattened' - that would be entirely a figment of your imagination (along with most of your claims about the street).
This Dubliner is telling you that you're talking a whole lot of guff. The market isn't stopping any shopping centre, and the proposed shopping centre remains a tenuous proposition, with any demonstrable USP. That's it's problem, not the adjacent, busy, market stalls selling perfectly decent produce on a daily basis for the last couple of hundred years.0 -
If you wink at some of the traders while buying a carrot they'll pull a pack of tax free cigarettes from under them. True story.0
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Whatever happened to the plan to convert the fruit and veg market up there in Mary's Lane into a foodie market paradise? Nothing yet afais, and it was mooted years ago.
At this stage Moore Street is a total kip. Really it is, nothing would entice me down there at all. I don't need to list out the awfulness of that place, and the litter and crap everywhere along with smugglers openly selling dodgy fags. Even the street traders look fed up now. Who buys their fruit and veg from a stall now?
Anyway, why not CPO one side of the street and make into a food market like the English market in Cork, move the stalls and ethnic shops up to the old fruit market?
I know there will be problems and so on. But why DCC hasn't insisted on cleaning Moore Street up to a decent international open air market standard is really beyond me now.
DCC seems to have very little time for the places in the city that are just plain awful, concentrating instead on bicycle lanes and pedestrianisation everywhere they can. That's not too bad, I agree with it. But there is a lot of dereliction North of the river on the spine from Mary Street up to Collins Barracks. That should be a fantastic place. But no.
Sorry, I love Dublin, and am so saddened by the lack of forward thinking, the neglect, and the "ah sure it will be grand" attitude from those in charge who probably never ever see the city at all from their bunkers in Wood Quay.
Whew, glad I got all that out!0 -
Now that you've got that all out, why didn't you just check with DCC's website to see what their plans actually are?
The plan for making the central fruit and veg market an 'English Market' type affair is still in place (though delayed on account of rows over wholesalers access and provision of a football pitch at the fish market site), and there are additional plans to redevelop the design of, and layout of the Moore street stalls, enforce the pedestrianisation of the street, provide street lanterns rather than the current streetlights, and provide for better street sweeping access. It's been slow coming, as there was supposed to be redevelopment of the market fund under the shopping centre plan, which is on the never-never now.
Lots of people buying fruit and veg on the street still btw. If you did drag yourself down, you'd see for yourself. Personally I've never had an issue with the tobacco sellers at the Ilac entrance upsetting my purchase of a few nice pomegranates or whatever from a stall. Obviously the sale of illegal tobacco needs to be stamped out, but it doesn't impact on fruit and veg shoppers in any way. There's always (or at least since the 30's) been lots of dereliction in the north inner city btw - in my living memory this is the least amount there's ever been.0 -
The Ilac has seen a lot of refurbishment in recent years. I think the fortunes of the Ilac took a turn for the worse when the Jervis Centre opened. The Parnell Mall is too narrow and low for modern shopping centre standards. The other malls are fine but need a better selection of shops.
You have to remember the Ilac opened in 1981 - 36 years ago and is reflection of that era. As a kid I remember the glass lifts being such a cool novelty!
Mind you, the Powerscourt Centre also opened in 1981 and has aged very well. But it was years ahead of its time and was on the Southside.0
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