Another career question for old programmer

rock22

I am in my early sixties so perhaps I am off my mind even asking this but here goes.
I worked as a scientist for over 40 years. In the 70's there was little software available for our laboratory and so i began to learn some programming to create our own programs.
Initially I used HP-BASIC , then the appropriate HP assembler. Memory usage was always a big problem then and using the assembler I could create new data structures which used less memory.
I progressed to Pascal and ultimately Delphi which is/was the OOP version of Pascal.
Since retirement I have studied Java and have the Sun certificate. I have also taught myself C# and the Windows NET framework.
I have created a few Android apps and a few Windows desktop applications. I use SQlite in both.
Down through the years I have used HTML and developed websites. I am familiar with CSS and little with JavaScript.
The thing is, I have never work as a developer. But at this age, I would like to try. While I am somewhat familiar with technology I have no idea what is involved, day to day , in a development environment.
Is there any role I could apply for or am I wasting my time even thinking about it. I realise that no employer would want to invest heavily in someone who will probably be dead in 10 years.
Any ideas, or should I just accept that i am too old .

Thanks for reading this far.

BrokenArrows

You will probably find it very hard to find employment in what will essentially be a junior role, even through from the sounds of it you probably know a decent amount more than other juniors.

While technically it is illegal for any employer to use your age as an excuse, the will, even though they wont say it.

What you might find interesting would be to go onto some of the freelance websites and try and pickup a few projects on there.

Since im assuming your motivation is an interest in the development side of the work rather than needing a paycheck, you can probably lowball the prices to get some work initially until your profile builds some experience.

Start small and see where you end up.

You could still chance your arm and see if you can land a role.

srsly78

There is a lot of overlap between scientist/developer in some roles. Learn python and your options will massively expand. Also some science jobs look for matlab/mathematica but python is more future-proof.

a fat guy

Unless you have a health condition, you're gonna be sticking around for another twenty years. 81 is the average life expectancy in Ireland, so plenty of time to put your experience to use if you're up for it.

You COULD apply for positions as a developer, but I think you should take the entrepreneurial route and combine your experience in whatever science you did with your technical skills. Set up your own company and make the most out of both skillsets. I always talk to people in different industries so I can get a good idea of what is needed in their industry, and hopefully when I have the time I'll be able to make something that'll sell well.

And I wouldn't worry about age too much. Realistically you'll want to tailor your CV a bit (I used X technology while working in Y) and aim for bigger companies. I'm in one now where some guy has thirty years of industry experience and he's about six or seven years younger than you. He does great, so avoid the smaller ones (Tonnes more stress in my experiences, might not be your thing if you enjoy your time outside of work) and try to get an interview with a bigger company. Take a graduate position if you really want to (Less pay, but also a lot less expected of you).

Good luck!

counterpointaud

Apart from the occasional ageist attitude you will unfortunately meet in many industries, there is no reason you should not get on very well in a development role. I wouldn't worry too much about companies 'investing' in you... typically people change jobs every 2 - 3 years anyway.

You have a very wide range of experience, and more than likely a lot of soft-skills which come with life experience. You may have to ramp up on a few things, but nothing too scary compared to what you have listed.

I would say go for it.

rock22

Thanks you all for the responses. It is much more encouraging that i expected.
Just a few questions. BrokenArrows , you suggested looking at freelance work. I found freelancer.com. Would that be a good place to start?
srsly78, thanks for the suggestions . i will look up Python, which i have heard about. thanks
a fat guy, I am thinking along those lines. I might need to look more into online databases and client apps to make anything worthwhile. But I do still have contacts in my old employment and can discuss ideas with some ex-colleagues.
counterpointaud, thanks for the vote of confidence. i will go for it and see what happens

Thanks again for all the feedback

BrokenArrows

rock22 wrote: »

Thanks you all for the responses. It is much more encouraging that i expected.
Just a few questions. BrokenArrows , you suggested looking at freelance work. I found freelancer.com. Would that be a good place to start?
srsly78, thanks for the suggestions . i will look up Python, which i have heard about. thanks
a fat guy, I am thinking along those lines. I might need to look more into online databases and client apps to make anything worthwhile. But I do still have contacts in my old employment and can discuss ideas with some ex-colleagues.
counterpointaud, thanks for the vote of confidence. i will go for it and see what happens

Thanks again for all the feedback

There are loads of freelance websites out there. freelancer.com is one of them but you should sign up to lots of them to find jobs that match your skill set.

I personally dont use any of them as i tend to generate leads via my own website which has a bit of into about the products my company develops.

srsly78

OP why solve problems for other people? Surely as a scientist you have loads of problems in your own domain that you can write software for. Pick something you are interested in and can leverage your existing knowledge. If you insist on being a corporate lackey note that an experienced scientist that can use git+python would be snapped up (if they existed lol).

PrzemoF

rock22, if you're looking just for developer activity without making money there are tons of open source projects that would love to have you on board. Let me know if you need help finding something that would be interesting for you.

14ned

rock22 wrote: »

Is there any role I could apply for or am I wasting my time even thinking about it. I realise that no employer would want to invest heavily in someone who will probably be dead in 10 years.
Any ideas, or should I just accept that i am too old .

If you already have a pension income and don't need extra income, charities often have big IT needs and can't find anyone to do their stuff. It's worth looking into.

In terms of engineering participation, you'd be surprised at the number of people aged sixty upwards who participate on ISO standards. On the C++ standards committee I can think of more than ten people aged over sixty most with full time jobs. The rest are long retired (they are in their eighties) but still active on standards.

So it's not as uncommon as you might think. Do you know if I were you I'd even consider trying to get a job at Google Dublin. They have a huge shortage of experienced technical managers with engineering nous, and they don't need up to date managers, just those who understand engineering. As with all interviews at Google, you'd need to study, full time, for about two weeks before the interview to cram the stuff they'll ask you on during the five hour interview (there are plenty of books on Amazon to help you). And you'll probably fail first time, Google have a horrendous false negative rate. But it would give you sometime definite to aim for.

Anyway, best of luck with it.

Niall

rock22

Again, thanks to everyone for all the advice.
I will create a Github and Freelancer account in the next few days and start to make efforts to get involved in something worthwhile. I have already contacted a charity and offered my services and hopefully that will come through soon.

While I do have a (small) pension, i would, like most people, welcome some extra income , but that is not the primary purpose. It is more trying to get involved in something worthwhile or useful and developing skills a bit more. While I can continue working on my own on project I find interesting I would much more like to work as part of a team or group, even if that is online only. PrzemoF, I would be interested in open source projects and will send you a PM if that is ok.

Thanks again for everyone's time and advice



I will re-examine

moycullen14

I've seen this work and maybe it might work for you.

Your problem will be getting past the gatekeepers - HR, agents, etc. You are sufficiently out of the ordinary which sadly means that you won't pass a lot of initial screenings. One good thing is that the most important thing on your CV, is your last gig. If you get a job/contract and manage to keep it for a year or so, that will massively help you get the next job .... and so on.

Place I worked at a few years ago took on a guy who was ex Army. He had very little IT experience - almost none - but because he had a pension, he was willing to work for very little (not sure how much). Fast forward 18 months and his CV looked much better and he had no problem securing a development contract with a US multi national.

Use whatever contacts you have, avoid large companies and agents (gatekeeper central), make direct contact and be honest with people. It wont work everywhere but you only need it to work once. Age isn't a barrier, a funky CV is.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Buford T Justice

PrzemoF wrote: »

rock22, if you're looking just for developer activity without making money there are tons of open source projects that would love to have you on board. Let me know if you need help finding something that would be interesting for you.

I'm interested

dazberry

rock22 wrote: »

I progressed to Pascal and ultimately Delphi which is/was the OOP version of Pascal.

I worked in Delphi back in the day, it's a real shame there aren't really any opportunities anymore - that could have been a route that might have gotten you in. Having said that I know of maybe a couple of Delphi based systems still knocking around - (if they're still around they probably won't be too pretty either ) but if you want to PM me rock22 I can fire on the details...

D.

PrzemoF

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I'm interested

If you just want to learn something new:

1. Make list of software that you use every day/often (firefox, vlc, gimp, libreoffice, etc)
2. Check what licence they use - there is close to 100% chance that you use some open source software.
3. Pick one that looks interesting, lets say VLC
4. Find "how to contribute" on VLC webpage: [1]. All medium/large projects should provide info how to contribute.
5. Pick something that you like to do or you want to learn. Let's say coding is your thing (translation, documentation, graphics, testing..).
6. Learn how to compile/build the project.
7. Find forum/mailings list/IRC for developers and sign up. Read and try to understand what are the problems that needs to be solved. From my experience there are always small things (like typos) that can be fixed just to get you into the project. Alternatively find a bug tracker for the project and try to identify a bug that looks simple [2]. Try to fix it, share the results, read the feedback from developers. There is no warranty that you find something that suits your skill level, especially if you're a beginner, but even trying to fix something without delivering actual fix would teach you a lot.
8. If you manage to fix a bug learn how to submit the solution - it's not always easy!

The info is a bit generic, but without knowing what you want to do, what you can do and what is your area of interest I can't be more precise.

[1] http://www.videolan.org/contribute.html
[2] https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/

jimmycrackcorm

rock22 wrote: »

Thanks you all for the responses. It is much more encouraging that i expected.
Just a few questions. BrokenArrows , you suggested looking at freelance work. I found freelancer.com. Would that be a good place to start?
srsly78, thanks for the suggestions . i will look up Python, which i have heard about. thanks
a fat guy, I am thinking along those lines. I might need to look more into online databases and client apps to make anything worthwhile. But I do still have contacts in my old employment and can discuss ideas with some ex-colleagues.
counterpointaud, thanks for the vote of confidence. i will go for it and see what happens

Thanks again for all the feedback

Forget about freelancer.com and other freelance sites - you'll be competing in a race to the bottom.

You're not too old to do something because very simply in computing there are endless opportunities. Given your extensive science experience, you must be aware already of opportunities to create software for applications in your area of expertise. You have an advantage in marrying this as you've already done.

As you're retired, you'll have plenty of time to try out and prototype concepts, see what doesn't have potential or what does. In your place I'd focus more on mobile or web type apps and stick to technologies around that as supporting those are easier than desktop software.

As for Delphi, it's still worthwhile keeping an eye out for jobs in that as it is very difficult to get anybody to still work on legacy technologies.

endacl

You don't stop doing things because you get old. You get old because you stop doing things.

StupidLikeAFox

Data Analytics may be a good fit for you - a lot of the jobs are looking for a mix of programming and research skills. You would make decent money at that and there are tons of jobs out there

dazberry

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Data Analytics may be a good fit for you - a lot of the jobs are looking for a mix of programming and research skills. You would make decent money at that and there are tons of jobs out there

Free SAP course on Getting Started with Data Science here

D.

rock22

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Data Analytics may be a good fit for you - a lot of the jobs are looking for a mix of programming and research skills. You would make decent money at that and there are tons of jobs out there

dazberry wrote: »

Free SAP course on Getting Started with Data Science here

D.

I have just enrolled . Thanks to you both for the suggestion and information