€3~4K budget for bike

fat bloke

mookie2007 wrote: »

Ok so bearing this in mind you guys are saying go for the canyon with high end spec decent frame and set of carbon clinchers

It's certainly what I would do yes.

My neighbour bought the cf slx with sram 22 and mavic exalith slr's for 4200 I think. It's a glorious machine. There isn't one single thing you would change or upgrade on it.

I've the same wheels for three years and the braking is fantastic on them

Personally I'm giving the disc thing a wide berth until they're (pun) well bedded in and the industry and governing bodies properly know what they're doing. In the mean time, enjoy the pinnacle of rim braked light weight road bikes for reasonable money

Red Belly

I got a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 2 2016 model last March. Hydraulic discs, Ultegra, relaxed geometry; absolutely love it, couldn't recommend it highly enough. Did Marmotte and several mountainy sportives here on it. €3300 was the 2016 list price. Probably pick one up somewhere now with a decent discount.

Rb

mookie2007

fat bloke wrote: »

It's certainly what I would do yes.

My neighbour bought the cf slx with sram 22 and mavic exalith slr's for 4200 I think. It's a glorious machine. There isn't one single thing you would change or upgrade on it.

I've the same wheels for three years and the braking is fantastic on them

Personally I'm giving the disc thing a wide berth until they're (pun) well bedded in and the industry and governing bodies properly know what they're doing. In the mean time, enjoy the pinnacle of rim braked light weight road bikes for reasonable money

That's a hell of a bike for 4200 alright.

I suppose disc brakes are a recent phenomenon and will only improve and get lighter dramatically in a few years

mookie2007

Red Belly wrote: »

I got a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 2 2016 model last March. Hydraulic discs, Ultegra, relaxed geometry; absolutely love it, couldn't recommend it highly enough. Did Marmotte and several mountainy sportives here on it. €3300 was the 2016 list price. Probably pick one up somewhere now with a decent discount.

Rb

Thanks red belly looks like a nice bike .

Do you notice a big difference descending with rim brakes? Do they give you more confidence? Do they allow you go harder into bends and beat your strava times on descents .

What would you say from your experience is the biggest difference / advantage of disc brakes over rim brakes

Red Belly

mookie2007 wrote: »

Thanks red belly looks like a nice bike .

Do you notice a big difference descending with rim brakes? Do they give you more confidence? Do they allow you go harder into bends and beat your strava times on descents .

What would you say from your experience is the biggest difference / advantage of disc brakes over rim brakes

There is no performance difference between discs in the dry and in the wet. There is much more fine control of braking. They have much more braking power than rim brakes in the wet. You can brake in a corner, and they certainly gave me a lot more confidence in descending safely rather than quickly; I am and always have been a nervous/cautious descender. I chose the bike primarily because of the geometry that really suited me, but the discs were a big plus given that I was bringing my nervous descending to the Alps last summer. I was very confident that I wouldn't overheat and cause a blowout from overbraking.

Rb

Tenzor07

Disc brakes, a no-brainer, having rented a Cannondale Synapse disc the braking was smooth and consistent, allowed me to out-brake guys on rim brakes/carbon rims...
Definitely more power when conditions are wet, and you'll out brake rim brake bikes...
Oh sure some high end rim brakes may be just as good as discs, but this would rely on those rim brakes being well maintained, i.e. almost new pads, well adjusted cables, good braking surface with little wear...

Yea they add a little extra weight, and that only matters when going uphill anyways, with Ireland being a relatively flat country anyways...

Lumen

^^ typical mountain biker opinion. :pac:

I would not choose discs for a recreational bike. They're heavy, un-aerodynamic, complex to service and ugly. Rim brakes work just as well if used properly.

I say this as someone who uses a disc-braked road bike for both commuting and weekend riding. The only reason I use it at the weekend is because it's more comfortable than my other bikes, but that's nothing to do with the brakes.

Tenzor07

Lumen wrote: »

They're heavy, un-aerodynamic, complex to service and ugly..

Oh yea, so true! :rolleyes:

terrydel

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Back in the day (up until about last year) 3000 would get a nice frame, high end gruppo, a respectable set of wheels, would look the business and come in around 7 kg.

You'd still have a chunk of folding money left over.

Yeah, it has been in my mind that prices have shot up recently.

Lumen

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Oh yea, so true! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure whether a picture of ugly heavy unaerodynamic brakes on an otherwise good-looking aero bike proves your point or mine.

terrydel

mookie2007 wrote: »

That's a hell of a bike for 4200 alright.

I suppose disc brakes are a recent phenomenon and will only improve and get lighter dramatically in a few years

Like electric cars, dont buy them now! Wait a couple of years

harringtonp

irishrover99 wrote: »

But the extra weight is from the disc brakes so that should be normal weight?
I'd imagine the non disc version would be closer to the 7.0 mark

What am I missing, where exactly is the extra kg in disc brakes ? Can't imagine the rotor being more than a couple of 100 g's so where is the rest of it.

Tenzor07

harringtonp wrote: »

What am I missing, where exactly is the extra kg in disc brakes ? Can't imagine the rotor being more than a couple of 100 g's so where is the rest of it.

The extra weight comes from the overall brakeset weight combined with the extra carbon/metal for the frame where the calipers are mounted...so could be like 70 grams extra on the frame and probably not much more from the brakeset... Pretty marginal for the gains you get from having discs....Unless you're building a super light climbing machine of course...!

Big Mig

I can get you one of these with a bit of discount if you're interested. The website gives Dutch prices which are a bit less than here to start with. http://www.sensabikes.com/bikes/custom-road/662/giulia-g2-disc-twilight-und-red-custom?c=26

mookie2007

Red Belly wrote: »

There is no performance difference between discs in the dry and in the wet. There is much more fine control of braking. They have much more braking power than rim brakes in the wet. You can brake in a corner, and they certainly gave me a lot more confidence in descending safely rather than quickly; I am and always have been a nervous/cautious descender. I chose the bike primarily because of the geometry that really suited me, but the discs were a big plus given that I was bringing my nervous descending to the Alps last summer. I was very confident that I wouldn't overheat and cause a blowout from overbraking.

Rb

Red belly and tenzer I think you've made up my mind.

I left one detail out. I had a spill coming down the aubisque last august. Bearing in mind brakes had nothing to do with crash but I got back on the bike for first time since over xmas and descended down Cruagh like a granny - no confidence nervous and jittery.

So psychologically if disc brakes give better control, more confidence and same in the wet as dry that's a big deal for me. Yes I climb but as you say Lumen it's for recreation I ain't entering the hill climbing championships. And I can accept the weight penalty gladly and ugliness :0)

Thanks all for your priceless feedback. Been so helpful

It's just a matter of which bike now
The cannonadale synapse ultegra
Or the canyon ultimate ultegra
Big mig those sensa bikes look really well and great specs . I don't know anything about them - do you own one yourself?

Tenzor07

mookie2007 wrote: »

It's just a matter of which bike now
The cannonadale synapse ultegra
Or the canyon ultimate ultegra ?

I rented a Synapse Ultegra Di2 disc, super bike! Felt comfortable on it straight away, climbed well on it and descended even better, you can't go wrong with it really...

Lumen

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I rented a Synapse Ultegra Di2 disc, super bike! Felt comfortable on it straight away, climbed well on it and descended even better, you can't go wrong with it really...

That's what I have. It's very comfortable although very tall - I have the headset slammed and it's still lofty.

Di2 is a mixed blessing. When it works it's fantastic, when it stops working it's beyond frustrating. I had to change the battery and junction box on mine after about a year.

edit: the Canyon ENDURACE CF SL DISC 9.0 DI2 looks good for 4k, although I would be genuinely surprised if it weighed the claimed 7.8kg.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/endurace/endurace-cf-sl-disc-9-0-di2.html

Koobcam

Not sure if the OP has already made up his/her mind, but for the budget in question, I reckon the Rose Xeon CDX with Ultegra mechanical would be the way to go. I'd get it as is on the website and then spend the remaining budget on a pair of Chinese carbon rims built up on DT swiss 350 straight pull hubs. If you are really weight conscious, you could upgrade to 24o hubs, but they cost twice as much and the internals are essentially the same. The wheels I got built are simply stunning, 26mm external width, 19 or 20 internal, tubeless compatible and they look like something you would pay more than two grand for (but cost less than half of that). I have the setup described here, except I stuck the Dura Ace from another bike on this one, so that would save a very small amount of weight, plus the latest version of the CDX has direct mount disc brakes, which again save a small amount of weight as I have an adapter on mine for standard mount brakes.

brownian

Another option is to go to ciclicorsa.com and get a Columbus Genius frame built up for you (by them). Custom paintjob on demand, any gruppo you like, etc. Worth a look at least.

Big Mig

I've been racing cross on a Sensa all winter. I have ridden some of our road hire bikes but I have a Lynskey titanium bike for the road that's going to last for years so didn't need a Sensa one.
They're a Dutch company and have been selling bikes for over 20 years. Just not very well known here. They supplied the Munster junior squad a few years ago and had Eddie Dunbar on one! I have the contact there through the small holiday company I used to run. Nobody here could or would supply me with reasonable bikes to hire so I stumbled across Sensa who were very helpful and better value too. They asked if I would be a dealer as they didn't have one in Wicklow so that's how I can get them. I don't sell too many because people are after the big brand names and afraid to go for something different. They're every bit as good as any Giant or Cannondale etc out there, just have a different badge!! The road disc one is new for this year. I sold a non disc version before Christmas which is brilliant. Light and racy but stable and quite comfortable at the same time.

mookie2007

Lumen wrote: »

That's what I have. It's very comfortable although very tall - I have the headset slammed and it's still lofty.

Di2 is a mixed blessing. When it works it's fantastic, when it stops working it's beyond frustrating. I had to change the battery and junction box on mine after about a year.

edit: the Canyon ENDURACE CF SL DISC 9.0 DI2 looks good for 4k, although I would be genuinely surprised if it weighed the claimed 7.8kg.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/endurace/endurace-cf-sl-disc-9-0-di2.html

I think the prices in some of the canyons particularly the endurace range have been bumped up substantially in the last year. Big brand power now kicking in.
For example I bought a canyon endurace with dura ace rim brakes in 2015 weight just under 7kgs € 2,699.

Now that the equivalent albeit with d12 and disc brakes is over €4K. Wouldn't interest me.

So leaning towards the synapse or ultimate

mookie2007

Koobcam wrote: »

Not sure if the OP has already made up his/her mind, but for the budget in question, I reckon the Rose Xeon CDX with Ultegra mechanical would be the way to go. I'd get it as is on the website and then spend the remaining budget on a pair of Chinese carbon rims built up on DT swiss 350 straight pull hubs. If you are really weight conscious, you could upgrade to 24o hubs, but they cost twice as much and the internals are essentially the same. The wheels I got built are simply stunning, 26mm external width, 19 or 20 internal, tubeless compatible and they look like something you would pay more than two grand for (but cost less than half of that). I have the setup described here, except I stuck the Dura Ace from another bike on this one, so that would save a very small amount of weight, plus the latest version of the CDX has direct mount disc brakes, which again save a small amount of weight as I have an adapter on mine for standard mount brakes.

Cool site thanks out of interest what wheels did you kit yours out with?

Any photos?


Between this the sensa and the standard brand options have plenty to choose from

Thanks

Lumen

mookie2007 wrote: »

So leaning towards the synapse or ultimate

Which model of ultimate?

Tenzor07

Lumen wrote: »

Which model of ultimate?

This i'd say!

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-8-0.html

:pac:....:pac:...:pac:

Lumen

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This i'd say!

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-8-0.html

:pac:....:pac:...:pac:

Mechanical discs are awful on a road bike in my experience, even more so with internal cabling.

The 9.0 Di2 seems to be the cheapest one they have with hydraulics @ €3599. And it has Di2.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-9-0-di2.html

terrydel

Big Mig wrote: »

I've been racing cross on a Sensa all winter. I have ridden some of our road hire bikes but I have a Lynskey titanium bike for the road that's going to last for years so didn't need a Sensa one.
They're a Dutch company and have been selling bikes for over 20 years. Just not very well known here. They supplied the Munster junior squad a few years ago and had Eddie Dunbar on one! I have the contact there through the small holiday company I used to run. Nobody here could or would supply me with reasonable bikes to hire so I stumbled across Sensa who were very helpful and better value too. They asked if I would be a dealer as they didn't have one in Wicklow so that's how I can get them. I don't sell too many because people are after the big brand names and afraid to go for something different. They're every bit as good as any Giant or Cannondale etc out there, just have a different badge!! The road disc one is new for this year. I sold a non disc version before Christmas which is brilliant. Light and racy but stable and quite comfortable at the same time.

Where is your shop in Wicklow?

Fian

Lumen wrote: »

Mechanical discs are awful on a road bike in my experience, even more so with internal cabling.

The 9.0 Di2 seems to be the cheapest one they have with hydraulics @ €3599. And it has Di2.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-9-0-di2.html

+1 on avoid mechanical discs like the plague. I have cable discs on my commuter, there is a world of difference between them and hydraullic.

I will just repeat the alternatives also with Di2 and hydraullics:

https://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-x-lite-cdx-3100/aid:890048

€3899, 7.3kg, di2, hydraullic discs.


https://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-3100-di2-disc/aid:820865

€2949, 7.6kg. This is my bike, very comfortable, good value, di2, hydraullic discs, I am delighted with it.

the canyon linked in teh quote also looks great.

terrydel

Fian wrote: »

+1 on avoid mechanical discs like the plague. I have cable discs on my commuter, there is a world of difference between them and hydraullic.

I will just repeat the alternatives also with Di2 and hydraullics:

https://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-x-lite-cdx-3100/aid:890048

€3899, 7.3kg, di2, hydraullic discs.


https://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-3100-di2-disc/aid:820865

€2949, 7.6kg. This is my bike, very comfortable, good value, di2, hydraullic discs, I am delighted with it.

the canyon linked in teh quote also looks great.

Can you get custom paint jobs on those rose bikes?
If so, Id certainly consider one next time round.

Fian

terrydel wrote: »

Can you get custom paint jobs on those rose bikes?
If so, Id certainly consider one next time round.

As far as I know you have a choice between Matt black and Blue (the correct choice)

And shiny black and red (the incorrect choice).

I don't think they will do any other paint job on it, i suppose you could always get it painted elsewhere.

Koobcam

mookie2007 wrote: »

Cool site thanks out of interest what wheels did you kit yours out with?

Any photos?


Between this the sensa and the standard brand options have plenty to choose from

Thanks

When I bought the Rose, I got the Ksyrium disc pro wheels. they are ok, but with a bike like that, you are definitely better off getting a good set of wide carbon wheels-no rim brakes mean they will last much longer and no danger of overheating on long descents, so you can ride clinchers. Don't have any pictures of the carbon wheels I got, but they cost around €750 including hubs, not bad for a set of wheels that are pretty much the equal of a pair of Zipp 303s.