N +1

Ryder

Appreciate some advice. Have a nice ti frame so can't justify a new bike but wouldn't mind an upgrade. Have a 7yr old rival groupset and 10yr old kysurium wheelset (still rolling smoothly).

Considering changing to an ultegra groupset or upgrading to a hand-built wheelset......Hard question but any recommendations as to which is best?

fat bloke

I'd say actual tangible performance differences will be non-existent but of those two things, hand built wheels would surely send the needle on your Warm-&-Fuzzy-Feeling-O-Meter through the roof.

Ryder

fat bloke wrote: »

I'd say actual tangible performance differences will be non-existent but of those two things, hand built wheels would surely send the needle on your Warm-&-Fuzzy-Feeling-O-Meter through the roof.

Thanks. Do you reckon that wheelset advice still applies for a 600e ish budget?

fat bloke

Ryder wrote: »

Thanks. Do you reckon that wheelset advice still applies for a 600e ish budget?

Yerra, what I don't know about it would full a warehouse to be honest. But Wheelsmith.co.uk has often been mentioned on here and they seem to have lovely looking clinchers for around 450 quid sterling. Carbon rims at 780+ would fairly test the "ish" in your budget !

ford2600

Ryder wrote: »

Appreciate some advice. Have a nice ti frame so can't justify a new bike but wouldn't mind an upgrade. Have a 7yr old rival groupset and 10yr old kysurium wheelset (still rolling smoothly).

Considering changing to an ultegra groupset or upgrading to a hand-built wheelset......Hard question but any recommendations as to which is best?

If the rival works properly there is no decision.

Pick a rim that suits where you ride; I'd be inclined to go for something wide and 2 way compatible
Velocity A23
DT Swiss R460
HED Belgium
Pacenti SL23
Hplus TB14

Pick hubs to suit budget, ultegra, hope whatever and let a good wheelbuilder pick spokes and guide you on spoke count.

Ride them in dry weather with a nice wide tyre, Schwalbe one, gp 4000 (as wide as you can fit them), plenty other choice from Vittoria, Michelin etc and you'll have a wheelset for huge mileage which wil transform the bike although the Titanium will probably get the credit!

Although if you are light enough(and you have got a long time from your krysiums) you will still get plenty factory options at that price

Mercian Pro

I know wheel builders are honest craftsmen and a link to the roots of classic cycling while Shimano are anonymous multinationals probably run by robots but I was really impressed with the Ultegra 6800 that came with my Ti bike. Previous bikes had 105 which were fine but gear-shifting and breaking with Ultegra was in a different league. Seven months and about 6,000 km later, other than replacing the brake-blocks, I haven't had to make a single adjustment. Front and rear changing, even under pressure, is seamless and silent and I locked up the breaks a few times at first because they were so much better.
I am using the Aksiums that came with the bike for winter cycling and can't really notice much difference between them and the Ksyriums I use the rest of the time. Maybe hand-builts would be amazing but I'd go for the Ultegra first.

ford2600

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I know wheel builders are honest craftsmen and a link to the roots of classic cycling while Shimano are anonymous multinationals probably run by robots but I was really impressed with the Ultegra 6800 that came with my Ti bike. Previous bikes had 105 which were fine but gear-shifting and breaking with Ultegra was in a different league. Seven months and about 6,000 km later, other than replacing the brake-blocks, I haven't had to make a single adjustment. Front and rear changing, even under pressure, is seamless and silent and I locked up the breaks a few times at first because they were so much better.
I am using the Aksiums that came with the bike for winter cycling and can't really notice much difference between them and the Ksyriums I use the rest of the time. Maybe hand-builts would be amazing but I'd go for the Ultegra first.

5700 or 5800 105?
Hard to justify the 200 price difference between 5800 and 6800.

Narrow enough rim on the ultegra for my liking

Mercian Pro

ford2600 wrote: »

5700 or 5800 105?
Hard to justify the 200 price difference between 5800 and 6800.

Narrow enough rim on the ultegra for my liking

5700 and earlier. It's possible that the 5800 is a lot closer to the 6800 in performance. In fact, giving an old groupset a really good cleaning and lubrication and replacing the cables is probably one of the most cost effective "upgrades".

Ryder

Thanks. Wheels are the way to go. Had the rival serviced last year and really no problem with it.

My steel commuter/ training/do almost everything bike needs a new wheelset so I'll put the new wheels on that.

Was looking at wheelsmith and the race 30 look like a good mixture of durability and upgrade. Any better suggestions in the 600 price range?

Daroxtar

Ryder wrote: »

Thanks. Wheels are the way to go. Had the rival serviced last year and really no problem with it.

My steel commuter/ training/do almost everything bike needs a new wheelset so I'll put the new wheels on that.

Was looking at wheelsmith and the race 30 look like a good mixture of durability and upgrade. Any better suggestions in the 600 price range?

Check out http://thecycleclinic.co.uk
He has pretty much the same wheels as Hunt and Wheelsmith but substantially cheaper and a very good warranty and crash replacement policy.

thekooman

http://stores.ebay.ie/Spokesman-Wheels/Road-bike-wheelsets-/_i.html?_fsub=3318804012

I've bought a set of wheels off the Spokesman. sound fella and wheels look good but i havent used them much yet. deal with him directly to escape ebay fees. talk to him and tell him your budget and what you want.

Ryder

Daroxtar wrote: »

Check out http://thecycleclinic.co.uk
He has pretty much the same wheels as Hunt and Wheelsmith but substantially cheaper and a very good warranty and crash replacement policy.

Thanks. Great looking wheels......even better than wheelsmith

brownian

Look at Extralite.com, ciclicorsa.com and radsport technik mueller (google for url) for other fancy options. I've a pair of mueller's extralite hubs and BOM rims, and really like them.

Kaisr Sose

brownian wrote: »

Look at Extralite.com, ciclicorsa.com and radsport technik mueller (google for url) for other fancy options. I've a pair of mueller's extralite hubs and BOM rims, and really like them.

What weight (approx) are your wheels? I looked at their site before and some of the their wheels are seriously light. They are in my 'aquisition spectrum'

OleRodrigo

Also dcrwheels.co.uk. He has his own brand rim and hub that get very good reviews.

+1 on the thecycleclinic.co.uk. Have a few wheel sets from him and they are a great job.

brownian

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

What weight (approx) are your wheels? I looked at their site before and some of the their wheels are seriously light. They are in my 'aquisition spectrum'

1150g-odd, without the QRs (cheapish ti ones from PlanetX).

Ryder

Daroxtar wrote: »

Check out http://thecycleclinic.co.uk
He has pretty much the same wheels as Hunt and Wheelsmith but substantially cheaper and a very good warranty and crash replacement policy.

Contacted him. Very helpful. Recommended the Borg 31 wheelset for my titanium upgrade (from ksyrium elite 2007). Any experience with these wheels? Also thinking about ordering tubular tyres to go with them....worth it?

Ryder

http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/borg31-wheelset

Daroxtar

Ryder wrote: »

Contacted him. Very helpful. Recommended the Borg 31 wheelset for my titanium upgrade (from ksyrium elite 2007). Any experience with these wheels? Also thinking about ordering tubular tyres to go with them....worth it?

I honestly haven't used these wheels. I was about to buy a pair from him last year but there was a month waiting list at the time and my old wheel went kaput so I had to buy a factory wheel in a hurry.
What I can tell you is he's using the Kinlin XR31T rim which is seemingly the go to rim for most wheel builders these days looking to build tubeless ready, wide rims. It's the same rim used by Hunt and Wheelsmith to name but a few. The Miche Primato hubs are bullet proof and very easily serviceable and he's using Sapim spokes so really, you can't find fault with the materials and going by other peoples reviews he builds them very well.

dancrowley

Ryder wrote: »

Contacted him. Very helpful. Recommended the Borg 31 wheelset for my titanium upgrade (from ksyrium elite 2007). Any experience with these wheels? Also thinking about ordering tubular tyres to go with them....worth it?

I have a BORG31 wheelset with Record hubs which I purchased for my trip to Flanders and Paris-Roubaix last year. I paired them with Vittoria Pave tyres (27mm).
Fantastic wheels. They stayed on the bike for a few months after I got back from France, leaving the Vision Metron 55s I normally used gathering dust! Comfy and strong... happy days.

Ryder

Daroxtar wrote: »

I honestly haven't used these wheels. I was about to buy a pair from him last year but there was a month waiting list at the time and my old wheel went kaput so I had to buy a factory wheel in a hurry.
What I can tell you is he's using the Kinlin XR31T rim which is seemingly the go to rim for most wheel builders these days looking to build tubeless ready, wide rims. It's the same rim used by Hunt and Wheelsmith to name but a few. The Miche Primato hubs are bullet proof and very easily serviceable and he's using Sapim spokes so really, you can't find fault with the materials and going by other peoples reviews he builds them very well.

Thanks. The impossible question but I have to ask......do you think these will give much improvement of my current mavic ksyrium elite 2007 set? Wheels work fine and are true but wonder if the handbuilt will ride/feel better?

ford2600

Ryder wrote: »

Thanks. The impossible question but I have to ask......do you think these will give much improvement of my current mavic ksyrium elite 2007 set? Wheels work fine and are true but wonder if the handbuilt will ride/feel better?

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Implications_of_Rim_Width_2803.html

Buy them and find out!

Try and get a loan of a wide rim wheel with an appropriate tyre and see what it feels like

harringtonp

thekooman wrote: »

http://stores.ebay.ie/Spokesman-Wheels/Road-bike-wheelsets-/_i.html?_fsub=3318804012

I've bought a set of wheels off the Spokesman. sound fella and wheels look good but i havent used them much yet. deal with him directly to escape ebay fees. talk to him and tell him your budget and what you want.

His prices are as good as anything I have seen out there. Seriously considering

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Lightweight-Carbonal-50mm-deep-25mm-wide-carbon-clinchers-Novatec-hubs-/162156494284?hash=item25c147bdcc

though have a few reservations about braking (no specific mention of brake track resin), how tubeless ready they are (he says some people have success using them tubeless) and warranty (unlike cycle clinic no mention of it). You'd also need to buy the extra bits and bobs for tubeless and the brake pads.

thekooman

harringtonp wrote: »

His prices are as good as anything I have seen out there. Seriously considering

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Lightweight-Carbonal-50mm-deep-25mm-wide-carbon-clinchers-Novatec-hubs-/162156494284?hash=item25c147bdcc

though have a few reservations about braking (no specific mention of brake track resin), how tubeless ready they are (he says some people have success using them tubeless) and warranty (unlike cycle clinic no mention of it). You'd also need to buy the extra bits and bobs for tubeless and the brake pads.

they are the ones i got... still not got to use them for a long spin but for the spins i did they were very comfortable and fast.

harringtonp

thekooman wrote: »

they are the ones i got... still not got to use them for a long spin but for the spins i did they were very comfortable and fast.

Glad that I asked. I've a few questions and any you could answer would be appreciated. I'll get on to him first if I do go for them but no harm hearing from an independent party too.

How did you find the braking ?

Presume you are using them with tyres and tubes, did you need to purchase rim tape separately or did the wheels com with it ?

Did you weigh them yourself before fitting tyres ? He says about 1485 but I presume this is just hubs, rims and spokes (no tape)

Did you pay direct (availing of the 6%) or through ebay and if direct how was it: card, bank transfer ?

Was warranty mentioned at all ? I haven't had the best of luck with wheels in the past.

Any impression on the aero properties of the rim. They all seem to be U shaped thesedays and I'm banking on the likes of these rims which are not tunnel tested being more or less the same as those which are.

See the brake track goes as wide as 28, any problems fitting them ?

thekooman

harringtonp wrote: »

How did you find the braking ?

on the TT bike, dry and flat going but haven't done any downhills. they were fine but then again i only braked at the end of the spins so can't really tell yet.

Presume you are using them with tyres and tubes, did you need to purchase rim tape separately or did the wheels com with it ?

25mm clinchers and tubes. no rim tape needed as far as i remember

Did you weigh them yourself before fitting tyres ? He says about 1485 but I presume this is just hubs, rims and spokes (no tape)

didnt weight... I was just want to ride my bike hard! no time for weighing! they defo are around the 1500 mark.

Did you pay direct (availing of the 6%) or through ebay and if direct how was it: card, bank transfer ?

bank transfer

Was warranty mentioned at all ? I haven't had the best of luck with wheels in the past.

marks words:
There is a 12 month warranty on materials and workmanship. Carbonal offer a crash replacement service for their rims which is essentially a new rim for half price. The labour cost to build the wheel is not included.
Not covered are wheel bearings and damage through abuse.

Any impression on the aero properties of the rim. They all seem to be U shaped thesedays and I'm banking on the likes of these rims which are not tunnel tested being more or less the same as those which are.

they felt fast and comfortable. looking forward to the better weather to try them out.

See the brake track goes as wide as 28, any problems fitting them ?

25mm is fine in GP4000s anyways.

Just to Note: they are WIDE... ive the brakes opened up to the last. i got Swissstop brake pads with them (extra) for using on the road bike and BBB carbon pads for the TT bike.

harringtonp

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Also dcrwheels.co.uk. He has his own brand rim and hub that get very good reviews.
.

These are very competitively priced too. Little more expensive than spokesman perhaps but free lifetime truing and spoke repair and their own DCR standard hub look good. Great web site, loads of well presented info.

The only factory build I've found that comes close to comparing is CRCs prime wheels