The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

Mellor · 03-10-2022 9:23am

Definitely is a case for them. I’m not huge and about to max the stack of two machines in my gym. Both are movements that are best suited to machines. (The machine havebcylinder weights that I might be able to attach)

I was just thinking if the overloaded partial chest pressers. That strikes me as ego/vanity, rather than being humbled by a bar.

Again, could be a specific case for some pros/bodybuilders to train partials. But I dint think that’s the case in the vast majority when a guy is doing it in a random gym.

Mellor · 03-10-2022 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119692665#Comment_119692665

Pretty much what I’m picturing when I think of a vanity lift. Especially those on 45degree rails as you only lift about 70% of the weight to begin with.

Same with chest press with long levers.

Black Sheep · 03-10-2022 8:56pm

Well, a leg press or a machine press is so much more stable than a barbell squat, of course you're going to use more load.

I don't really see how it's necessarily about vanity- you still just load to the desired RPE. The load will be high and its not like its easy if you've loaded correctly. To be honest I actually think leg presses are very daunting, if anything.

As with leg extensions, I usually want to quit way before I actually have to. You don't get form breakdown in the same way as with a barbell squat, telling you to call it a day.

Brian? · 03-10-2022 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697498#Comment_119697498

It’s vanity because of the amount of weight most people load and then have a tiny ROM. I rarely see anyone use them properly.

Black Sheep · 03-10-2022 10:39pm

I see as many people squatting high with a barbell as I do doing short leg presses to be honest. Possibly more.

Mellor · 04-10-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697498#Comment_119697498

I get that it is a much more stable move and on that basis you can push a higher load. But I'm talking about the actual mechanics and physics involved. A to squat 100kg you need to produce a force of 100kg. To leg press it at 45degress, you only need to produce 70kg. Ditto for chest press machines like the below. The machines themselves are designed to lift more plates with lower force.

It's not necessarily about vanity. There are times when they make sense. But for a huge amount of people they are a vanity lift imo. People just stack on progressively more weight and that becomes the metric. Exhibit A;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZee9RGDWYo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697912#Comment_119697912

Very similar phenomenon imo. A combination of vanity, and inability to actually squat. Equally as dumb imo.

Some times its down to relocated powerlifter without understanding the whys.

silverharp · 04-10-2022 7:21am

I dont think Ive ever seen more than ~150kg on a leg press

Black Sheep · 04-10-2022 8:40am

Mellor, that's a silly video alright but sure there's tonnes of that on the web for lots of movements.

The leg press just happens to have the biggest numbers because of the nature of the machine, the muscle groups used and the stability that enables them to really move big weight.

On the leg press and barbell squat comparison, don't know how useful it even is to compare. Numbers on them as a comparison are irrelevant if you understand why they differ and what the utility of the respective exercises are.

They're both staples, you can use both in your programming, and it's important to understand pros and cons of each. I've already mentioned less lower back fatigue on the leg press. For many people they are also just better choices for isolating the hamstrings or quads in an hypertrophy programme.

The machines' advantage over free weights are greater stability but trainees still have to progressively load and work for reps that are going to cause adaptation. They should not feel like a holiday compared to free weight. Although anyone doing hard sets on the leg press will agree with me that that's not the case anyway, I think!

Black Sheep · 04-10-2022 9:00am

I do remember an Irish guy a few years ago that was claiming world record bench and leg press numbers at a really low bodyweight. Then when you watched the video it transpired he was doing iso holds for a second and 2 inches of movement in a Smith machine. I nearly admire the brass neck, he was selling e books on his training approach.

Cill94 · 04-10-2022 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697912#Comment_119697912

I’d agree here. These people will half rep ego lift regardless of the exercise. They are almost exclusively the people with no gains and a terrible attitude.

Mellor · 04-10-2022 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698539#Comment_119698539

They’ve lots if good uses. I’m squatting again. But fir 2 years my quad dominant leg work was all leg press.

I don’t have any issue with the machine itself. Only the vanity lifting and overloaded half reps whether that’s machine or barbell based.

Brian? · 04-10-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698418#Comment_119698418

you need to walk into any Gold’s Gym in the US. You’ll see them loaded with all the plates.

Brian? · 04-10-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698539#Comment_119698539

No one is saying the leg press doesn’t have uses. But you really more stupidity on it than any other machine IMO.

silverharp · 04-10-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699693#Comment_119699693

or an Indian gym where you add your homies for extra flex lol

sdoarbs · 10-10-2022 3:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698995#Comment_119698995

Yes and yes... but rarely no...

When i wasnt old and weak i had some quarter rep sessions to get the feel of the weight. Made 20kilos lighter feel reasonable

Now 20kilos feels heavy 😞

sdoarbs · 10-10-2022 3:04am

Do any of the old postersmpost anymore? Gem, dragan, hanley? Emmett?

20 years ago now almost

Brian? · 10-10-2022 6:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724213#Comment_119724213

Gen closed her account and moved on. Hanley was permabanned by the admins for advertising without a commercial account, I didn’t agree but he wouldn’t try to come back. Dragan was gone long before that and Emmet faded away over 10 years ago.

silverharp · 15-10-2022 2:45pm

I see Doug Brignole died yesterday, coincidentally he did an an interview on the question of body builders dropping dead. He wasnt an obvious candidate

https://youtu.be/i-e6Zg75LVk

Black Sheep · 15-10-2022 5:50pm

I remember listening to an interview with John Meadows, well before he died, and he was talking about the colitis / colon problems he had, and I think I'm right in saying that was related to his heart condition.

There's something depressing about a guy being in such good shape and, underneath it all, there's a life-threatening situation growing quietly.

I don't know the ins and outs of it and for all I know there was a strong genetic element to what happened to him, but if it was related to being on PEDs it's frustrating. I'd like to think that anyone who is a parent, especially, would know it's not worth it (Especially in a sport like bodybuilding where it's not even like professional football or something, where arguably you might weigh up the risks to your health and take the drugs because the monetary rewards are just so great).

Cill94 · 16-10-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748814#Comment_119748814

I suppose we always have to keep in perspective that there is a big difference between being in great shape and being healthy. Realistically, the point of diminishing returns for strength and muscle on your health happens much earlier than the point these guys take it to. There could always be a genetic component, but we all know taking the compounds that pro BBers take is not exactly extending their lifespan.

Would be interesting to see research on their life expectancy compared to the average person.

Black Sheep · 16-10-2022 8:16pm

I agree being 'in great shape' and 'being healthy' are not literally same, but in general terms if someone is carrying a lot of muscle mass and is still lean, and their performance in the gym or in sports is at a high level, I think it's fair to say they're usually very healthy by most markers?

Pro BBers obviously have the look and the performance, but yes I think they exemplify the distinction you're talking about, there's a health risk present.

But I do think that the point of diminishing returns, or where the shape you are in starts to negatively impact your health, is probably a point almost no one will reach unless they're either taking drugs like those guys, or they're playing a sport at a pro level that is going to disable them over time?

wotzgoingon · 16-10-2022 8:34pm

Sorry if this is not allowed. I'm on steroids big time the past year. I have seen massive gains but the side effect's are crazy. If I hear any bad news or someone annoys me I snap. I chased this fella down the street one day. Luckily he was this skinny fella so he eventually out ran me and I left it but I was so mad who knows what I would have done if I caught him. I also trashed my house after someone annoyed me on the phone. I was so pissed and luckily I live in the sticks as if someone had walked past I would have ran out and beat the s**t out of them.

So back to topic do these steroid side effect's come less the longer you use them? I just thought I'd ask as I'm sure there are plenty of steroid users here.

Brian? · 16-10-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753518#Comment_119753518

Mod Note: I’ll stop this here. This isn’t the place to discuss steroid abuse. Check the charter.

Cill94 · 16-10-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119753431#Comment_119753431

Yeah I think it's fair to say that none of us nattys are at risk of directly damaging our health from getting 'too jacked'. 😂

the baby bull elephant · 17-10-2022 12:30am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.strongerbyscience.com/podcast-episode-70/amp/

Was discussed on the SBS podcast last year.

https://www.thebarbell.com/do-pro-bodybuilders-die-younger-than-average/

Black Sheep · 20-10-2022 2:14pm

Saw an interesting point made by Australian coach Mark Carroll that the way most people do a reverse lunge is actually just a split squat. They shoot the leg back and in many cases pause before descending. For some reason I never thought of it that way but he's correct I think. He sees the lunge as requiring you to be more dynamic in execution. If that's lacking and there's no driving through then it's more akin to a quickly set up split squat each time.