The Van Basten Proposals

Liam O

I'd prefer a black card in GAA style thing for cynical fouls. Increase subs to 5 to implement this.

bucketybuck

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Orange cards for Sin Bins - A good idea I think, there needs to be something between a yellow and a red.

People seem to like this one, I guess there are no GAA fans in here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bucketybuck wrote: »

People seem to like this one, I guess there are no GAA fans in here.

Or handball fans... or ice hockey fans...

Dirty Dingus McGee

In one of Robbie Keanes games for Inter Milan he played in an ice hockey type shootout that is being proposed.I'm pretty sure he scored his goal.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I'd say heading might eventually have to be banned.Reading the article about Nobby Stiles the other day and the fact that quite a large number of England 1966 world cup side are suffering with dementia would lead you to believe that there may be some negative side affect of heading the ball.However banning heading would take away a huge amount from the game.


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/nobby-stiles-george-cohen-dementia-heading-a7534336.html

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

In one of Robbie Keanes games for Inter Milan he played in an ice hockey type shootout that is being proposed.I'm pretty sure he scored his goal.

I wonder would be it be more or less interesting if you had to go round a defender as well as score? And the same defender can't be used twice in the same way the same player can't take two penalties...

GavRedKing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I wonder would be it be more or less interesting if you had to go round a defender as well as score? And the same defender can't be used twice in the same way the same player can't take two penalties...

Thats just like a game of World Cup back in the day when it got down to the last two but fighting out to get through to the next round.

It would be near impossible, IMO, to go around a defender and score against a goalkeeper all while around the pressure of a time limit.

bucketybuck

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I wonder would be it be more or less interesting if you had to go round a defender as well as score? And the same defender can't be used twice in the same way the same player can't take two penalties...

At the top level the odds would be massively in favour of the defending team.

Kerrigooney

Liam O wrote: »

I'd prefer a black card in GAA style thing for cynical fouls. Increase subs to 5 to implement this.

The black card has hardly been a roaring success in GAA either. I'm not much of a GAA fan but from listening to others I get the impression most hate it. It's a tough one to referee.

Korat

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I wonder would be it be more or less interesting if you had to go round a defender as well as score? And the same defender can't be used twice in the same way the same player can't take two penalties...

PCB

I liked the 1st.

Wunder Kind

Ok?

CSF

I think the offside thing would have to be trialled in something competitive (but not a World Cup or champions league either) to see how it would play out. The pros are obvious but you'd have to see how much an impact the potential cons would have.

The sin bin would work. Don't see a purpose to the 4 quarters and while I don't think any player should ever play 60 games in a year, I'm not sure it's happening either.

Couldn't really care less about the penalties thing. The current method isn't amazing nor would be the new method. Just comes down to finding a way to determine a winner after a draw so this is the 'best way' chosen.

Mr. FoggPatches

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the way forward is multi ball and three sets of goalposts.

eagle eye

Peter Crouch might be an average sized player if you went with no offside rule.

Park two giants on the opposition goal line and hoof it up there all day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr. FoggPatches wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the way forward is multi ball and three sets of goalposts.

Sounds like Quidditch...

Fr Tod Umptious

s.welstead wrote: »

No thanks to most of his proposals, very Americanized. 4 quarters would be a pain in the ass. Way more advertising possibilities though so I could see this being something that interests Fifa. It would ruin the game though.
Change the game to 2 halves of 30 minutes of in play action. Stop the clock when ball goes out of play. Removes time wasting rubbish and questions marks about adding on time.

So you don't like this "Americanization" of the game but you would like to see something that is widely used in American sports, a proper clock, introduced ?

Not all Americanization is bad and not all bad things are Americanizations.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So you don't like this "Americanization" of the game but you would like to see something that is widely used in American sports, a proper clock, introduced ?

Not all Americanization is bad and not all bad things are Americanizations.

In fairness, that's not really an americanization. It's been used in all FIBA events, not just the NBA; in ice hockey which is more of a nordic sport than an american one, and in handball and futsal which aren't really populat at all in America.

Francie Barrett

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sin bin is the only thing of those I'd consider. An unfortunate or harsh red card can ruin a game.

Agree, the only proposal worth considering here.

KaiserGunner

Removing the offside rule would destroy the sport overnight imo. I'm a goalkeeper and I used to play the odd match in them night owls leagues that are played in Dublin. In those matches there are no offsides. In my experience there was no shape to the games, there was no point having a back 4 and the opposition could just put a tall striker on me all game. There was a lot more long balls being played as the pitch was effectively bigger as no defensive line and more spaces for a hoof and run.

And don't get me started on free kicks from just outside the box. There was no point putting a wall up as the opposition could put players in front of the keeper obstructing the view of the ball.

I've probably explained all this poorly, but no offsides would just cause chaos for the sport imo.

SuperTortoise

I would hate to see those rules changes come in. Aside from the sin bin which I think is a good idea.
I can see my interest fading if they are implemented

Dempsey

What is the objective of this technical group? To make more money for fifa or improve the game. Its not clear when I see proposals like these. They look like they came from tv executives in america as opposed to people that understand the game.

van Basten should be ashamed of himself for being associated with such proposals

My proposals would be as follows:

Only the captain can speak to the referee. Cut out this childish crowding of the referee

Use Video Tech to heavily punish players that look to deceive officials. Again, it would cut out the childish stuff from professional players

Use Video Tech to call offsides, the play can be called back when the decision is made. Play the whistle etc

The yellow card should result in a sin binning for 10 minutes. Banning a player for a different game for an accumulation of yellow cards should be scrapped.

I think those few things would see good attacking play getting more rewards

bucketybuck

Dempsey wrote: »

The yellow card should result in a sin binning for 10 minutes. Banning a player for a different game for an accumulation of yellow cards should be scrapped.

Considering they hand out yellow cards like confetti I think that would be a disaster. Personally I think they need to hand out less cards, sometimes a foul is just a foul and there is no need for this automatic yellow every time a tackle is made.

Corholio

The tripping someone when they go past you should be an automatic yellow any time of the game. Too often you see it happen in the first 10 minutes and refs leave it go, it happens in the 80th minute and it's nearly always a yellow. It's one of those really cheap fouls that are very irritating and one of those that vary in punishment depending on the time of the game.

But ya Van Basten's proposals are mostly madcap. The sin bin is also the only thing worth considering imo.

Optimalprimerib

While I don't really agree with the new rules , it would be interesting to see them in action in a tournament like the confederations cup.

Soccer for me, especially international has stagnated, so it would be nice to spice it up a bit and see how teams adapt to the new rules.

Dempsey

bucketybuck wrote: »

Considering they hand out yellow cards like confetti I think that would be a disaster. Personally I think they need to hand out less cards, sometimes a foul is just a foul and there is no need for this automatic yellow every time a tackle is made.

If cheating is gone because of video tech

Do you think players will be diving into tackles with a penalty like that hanging over them?

And obviously, referees will be instructed when yellow cards should be issued. Teams will also look to take advantage of a sin bin so fouling will also be reduced

Alot of the fouls in football are not because of any honest attempt to win the ball

razorblunt

Would a sin bin affect the game as much as it does in rugby (which you could argue is getting better at negating the effects too through tighter defences)?

Those suggestions read like something made up by George Weah's cousin on twitter again.

Nalz

Kerrigooney wrote: »

The black card has hardly been a roaring success in GAA either. I'm not much of a GAA fan but from listening to others I get the impression most hate it. It's a tough one to referee.

Isn't that more down to the implementation and the nature of the game rather than the idea? It would work better in soccer

Richard Hillman

The black card has been controversial in GAA because of Cowboy referees that pick and choose their moments to implement it.

Cynical fouling in football is much easier to spot too.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The black card idea in GAA is fairly sound in principle although I'd argue it didn't go far enough.

The problem is that

A. The GAA don't have the balls to tell the refs to go to town on it until the players learn their lesson.
B. The managers and players don't want to change their behaviour they want to do what suits themselves and helps them win.

The whole point of the rule change was to change behaviour and get players and managers to be less cynical unfortunately not enough are handed out in order to force a change of behaviour. The black card should lead eventually to a situation where players behave themselves and then there is no need for any of them to be handed out.You had some pundits arguing that because there were some mistakes with the handed out of black cards the rule should be done away with but with that line of thinking you wouldn't have any rules in any sport.

Personally I don't think soccer needs such a rule, just hand out more red cards for cynical fouls and eventually the players will learn.The Ander Herrera foul against Liverpool really should have been a red regardless of how far he was from goal.

LeBash

How could the 60 games a year be enforced? Club plays a player 60 times then he can be brought to an international tournament? OK we could say x club needs to leave x amount of games for player x. But player x gets injured and his replacement is a late call up who has 58 games under his belt already.

There is no doubt clubs need to manage players better. Guys who start young look burned out when they should be in their prime. But of course, there is so much money around you can replace the player.

Other than those I don't agree with anything.

Extra time before penalties is fine by me.

Orange card would just put the game back to where it was when there was 2 points for a win, 1 team would have 10 players around the 18 yard box and it really doesn't make a good game to watch.

What about video only if the ref has blown his whistle. Eg Man u West ham game, I didn't even think it was a foul but it would have stopped a silly red card.

GSPfan

Im totally in favour of a sin bin as I hate professional fouls etc. and I think its a great idea. Time wasting, shirt pulling (especially for corners), diving, referee abuse, kicking the ball away, blatant intentional fouls or persistent fouling, would all fall under the sin bin rules for me. The only reason id give yellow and red cards are for wreckless tackling which can or does cause harm to a player.

The notion that teams will happily sit all their players in the 18 yard box is ridiculous. And if they did it would be great to see action in and around the box Instead of in and around the centre circle with teams being too reluctant to commit.

Id love to see a proper competitve game without the offside rule to see if it would be fun. Id say you could still say that a player cannot be inside the 6 yard box before the ball is played so that the keeper isn't completely smothered but otherwise I can imagine it being good to watch.

bucketybuck

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The black card has been controversial in GAA because of Cowboy referees that pick and choose their moments to implement it.

And one thing that has marked this PL season is repeated and continued ineptitude from the referees, there isn't a team that hasn't gotten burned because of them and yet people think they would implement a black or orange card without any problems?

Dirty Dingus McGee

GSPfan wrote: »

Im totally in favour of a sin bin as I hate professional fouls etc. and I think its a great idea. Time wasting, shirt pulling (especially for corners), diving, referee abuse, kicking the ball away, blatant intentional fouls or persistent fouling, would all fall under the sin bin rules for me. The only reason id give yellow and red cards are for wreckless tackling which can or does cause harm to a player.

The notion that teams will happily sit all their players in the 18 yard box is ridiculous. And if they did it would be great to see action in and around the box Instead of in and around the centre circle with teams being too reluctant to commit.

Id love to see a proper competitve game without the offside rule to see if it would be fun. Id say you could still say that a player cannot be inside the 6 yard box before the ball is played so that the keeper isn't completely smothered but otherwise I can imagine it being good to watch.

You could just line up 2 or 3 on the edge of the 6 yard box and get midfielders to shoot continually from outside the box, would be quite easy to score goals this way and would be hell for goalkeepers.

GSPfan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You could just line up 2 or 3 on the edge of the 6 yard box and get midfielders to shoot continually from outside the box, would be quite easy to score goals this way and would be hell for goalkeepers.

Brilliant. High scoring games. Thats what we want. But tactics would also evolve to counter as putting 3 people on the 6 yard line is a massive sacrifice of bodies if you lose the ball. Are those 3 guys gonna stay there? No they wouldn't. But it'd be fun to see how it would work.

bucketybuck

GSPfan wrote: »

Brilliant. High scoring games. Thats what we want. But tactics would also evolve to counter as putting 3 people on the 6 yard line is a massive sacrifice of bodies if you lose the ball. Are those 3 guys gonna stay there? No they wouldn't. But it'd be fun to see how it would work.

No, it would be a balls, and the first thing to remember is that high scoring games are not by default good games.

Dirty Dingus McGee

GSPfan wrote: »

Brilliant. High scoring games. Thats what we want. But tactics would also evolve to counter as putting 3 people on the 6 yard line is a massive sacrifice of bodies if you lose the ball. Are those 3 guys gonna stay there? No they wouldn't. But it'd be fun to see how it would work.

The offside rule brings a tactical edge to the game and favours a more skillful approach.I think getting rid of it would make the sport infinitely worse.More high scoring doesn't necessarily mean a better game.

GSPfan

Goal mouth action is what makes a good game. Thats what we want. Whether its 0-0 or 6-5 it still boils down to goal mouth action.

I don't know that removing the offside rule would be good or bad but the level of certainty you guys have is puzzling. How are guys so certain it will ruin football?

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

And one thing that has marked this PL season is repeated and continued ineptitude from the referees, there isn't a team that hasn't gotten burned because of them and yet people think they would implement a black or orange card without any problems?

This isn't a reason to not introduce something and is definitely not something that will enter the heads of whoever would implement such a change.

Dempsey

GSPfan wrote: »

Goal mouth action is what makes a good game. Thats what we want. Whether its 0-0 or 6-5 it still boils down to goal mouth action.

I don't know that removing the offside rule would be good or bad but the level of certainty you guys have is puzzling. How are guys so certain it will ruin football?

Because they are all thinking of the games they played where the most useless of players, i.e. tap in specialist, looks decent while everyone else does all the donkey work

Saipanne

I'd get rid of extra time. It's almost a punishment to the winning team, as they're knackered for the next round.

GSPfan

Dempsey wrote: »

Because they are all thinking of the games they played where the most useless of players, i.e. tap in specialist, looks decent while everyone else does all the donkey work

If they were drawing a comparison between a professional 11 a side game vs a 5 a side game or kick around in the park with no offside then they shouldn't make any comment as its a ridiculous comparison. I doubt they are.

DerekDGoldfish

I remember reading they trailed no offside games with some lower league german teams last year. Everyone involved said it was a disaster of a game.

It might be different at a higher level or if teams had trained in it more but i would not be in favor of a change i think the games would end up far to scrappy.

The other change a number of other posters refered to is rolling subs. They have it in american college soccer and a number of people have claimed it weekens the development of skilfull players as managers can just keep swaping players who run at 100mph rather than develop players who can pace themselves over the cours of the game to use skill to break down defences.

Dirty Dingus McGee

GSPfan wrote: »

Goal mouth action is what makes a good game. Thats what we want. Whether its 0-0 or 6-5 it still boils down to goal mouth action.

I don't know that removing the offside rule would be good or bad but the level of certainty you guys have is puzzling. How are guys so certain it will ruin football?

Getting rid of it will stretch out the field which with only 11 players on it will probably result in less contests for the ball and players standing unchallenged while the defence backs up.The defence isn't going top push up and aid a pressing game if there is no offside rule as someone can simply stand unmarked behind them and wait for a long ball.

Dempsey

GSPfan wrote: »

If they were drawing a comparison between a professional 11 a side game vs a 5 a side game or kick around in the park with no offside then they shouldn't make any comment as its a ridiculous comparison. I doubt they are.

Other than one off experimental matches in modern pro football which is not enough data for anything conclusive, you are in no position to call anyone's opinion ridiculous though. You also have nothing to back up your thinking.

Lucas Hood

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

In one of Robbie Keanes games for Inter Milan he played in an ice hockey type shootout that is being proposed.I'm pretty sure he scored his goal.

I remember this too. Is there a video?

bucketybuck

GSPfan wrote: »

I don't know that removing the offside rule would be good or bad but the level of certainty you guys have is puzzling. How are guys so certain it will ruin football?

You are the one that wants to fundamentally change the entire way the game is played, I'd suggest the burden is on you to demonstrate why it would improve the game.

Mars Bar

No offside rule would be madness. If you wanted a middle ground between offside and no offside, it would have to be a stationary offside line marked out on the pitch.

Hopefully that never happens though and offside stays.

citytillidie

Mars Bar wrote: »

No offside rule would be madness. If you wanted a middle ground between offside and no offside, it would have to be a stationary offside line marked out on the pitch.

Hopefully that never happens though and offside stays.

Cross between that, have a line say 25 yards out that is only in effect in open play a bit like ice hockey no attacker can be goal side of that before the ball unless they are running with it. There you have the linesman at the line for that.

Then any free kick outside the line you have the normal offside rule back to the old one were no matter where it is in the pitch there has to be 2 players between the forward most attacker and the goal line

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are the one that wants to fundamentally change the entire way the game is played, I'd suggest the burden is on you to demonstrate why it would improve the game.

Its actually Marco Van Bastens proposal, not mine.

I haven't claimed it would improve the game, thats the point you missed. But you are certain it would ruin the game. How do you come to that conclusion?

Pepe LeFrits

The yellow card should just be reformed and be a sin bin, no need for an 'orange' card. The current system is daft.

Player commits yellow card offence ----> into the bin. The # of minutes could be dependent on the severity of the offence, ranging from 2 or 3 minutes up to 15.

It'd work well with a fixed clock like someone mentioned earlier. The current system with time added on is also daft. Two 30 minute halves and the clock stops whenever the ball goes out of play. The half ends when time runs out AND the ball is put out of play.

Pepe LeFrits

The off side rule could be tweaked but I don't think I'd like to see it removed all together (although it'd be interesting to see a few trial matches done without it...). Maybe add an additional line between half way and the box, where offside comes into effect (rather than at half way)? Would make the game less compact without making it completely open.