Fees for stuff you couldn't change

Dr.Silenec

Hi All,

I have a quick question, where I need to understand this in a legal terms.

So my car was broken into parked on pay & display. Now, The VRC(Vehicle Registration Certificate) has been stolen.

When I emailed the motor tax office, they told me I have to pay these 12e fee for a replacement.

Now, I feel I has been a victim because a state wasn't able to protect me against this happening and now as I was being robbed I still have to pay a fee to obtain a legal document again?

Isn't there anything that would prevent this? I feel this is pretty wrong in general. It's different if I would lose it or something like that, that's obviously my own stupidity.

Thanks for any input!

DesperateDan

How would they know if you lost it vs. if it was stolen?

nhunter100

Dr.Silenec wrote:

So my car was broken into parked on pay & display. Now, The VRC(Vehicle Registration Certificate) has been stolen.

Just a question but do you think it's a good idea to keep such an important document in the car it relates to?

brian_t

nhunter100 wrote: »

Just a question but do you think it's a good idea to keep such an important document in the car it relates to?

It is a legal requirement to display it on the windscreen.

IrishZeus

brian_t wrote: »

It is a legal requirement to display it on the windscreen.

No, its not. Tax, insurance and nct.

FreudianSlippers

Doesn't the VRC specifically tell you not to keep it in your car?

I make this point not to chastise the OP, but I just had a look at my policy and I don't see any reason why one couldn't claim the €12 from the insurance company unless the VRC instructs people not to keep it in the car, in which case the insurer would be protected by the Duty of Care and/or General Exceptions clauses (at least on my policy).

nhunter100

brian_t wrote:

It is a legal requirement to display it on the windscreen.

Tax disc/ valid insurance disc/ valid nct disc. Which are you referring to as a vehicle registration cert?

brian_t

nhunter100 wrote: »

Tax disc/ valid insurance disc/ valid nct disc. Which are you referring to as a vehicle registration cert?

I assumed the OP referred to the nct disc. My bad.

Dr.Silenec

So just to answer a few question, it was in the car because I was just about to go for an NCT test, just needed to get something done beforehands. I don't normally leave it in the car.

Now, another question was how would they know if it's lost or stolen - Because I did call the garda on the Scene and reported that with them.

Also, I related to VRC (Vehicle Registration Certificate)

FreudianSlippers

You don't need the VRC for NCT AFAIK.

I don't even understand the second question TBH.

nhunter100

FreudianSlippers wrote:

You don't need the VRC for NCT AFAIK.

Correct.

Kimbot

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Doesn't the VRC specifically tell you not to keep it in your car?

I make this point not to chastise the OP, but I just had a look at my policy and I don't see any reason why one couldn't claim the €12 from the insurance company unless the VRC instructs people not to keep it in the car, in which case the insurer would be protected by the Duty of Care and/or General Exceptions clauses (at least on my policy).

Well you could claim the 12 euro from the isurance but remember about the excess on your policy, you will pay the 12 euro yourself.

Dr.Silenec

So then NCT is misleading. let me quote from the email they are sending via email when you book your appointment

"Your Vehicle Registration Book, Registration Certificate or Licensing Certificate is with you when you arrive at the test centre."

cloloco

Dr.Silenec wrote: »

Hi All,

I have a quick question, where I need to understand this in a legal terms.

So my car was broken into parked on pay & display. Now, The VRC(Vehicle Registration Certificate) has been stolen.

When I emailed the motor tax office, they told me I have to pay these 12e fee for a replacement.

Now, I feel I has been a victim because a state wasn't able to protect me against this happening and now as I was being robbed I still have to pay a fee to obtain a legal document again?

Isn't there anything that would prevent this? I feel this is pretty wrong in general. It's different if I would lose it or something like that, that's obviously my own stupidity.

Thanks for any input!

I'd imagine they charge because:

A) It involves work for someone
To stop people from taking the p***

Unfortunate thing to happen of course but its not their fault you left important documents in the car.

Dr.Silenec

cloloco:

A) Isn't this the reason why we pay Taxes?
Understandable, therefore I would agree if it's lost I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Now, based on what you're saying I would left it in the house, someone broke into the house and It would be the same, right?

Also, I would believe that If I lock my own property, it's enough precaution from my side to prevent it, I left it in my own locked down property.

nhunter100

Dr.Silenec wrote:

"Your Vehicle Registration Book, Registration Certificate or Licensing Certificate is with you when you arrive at the test centre."

I have brought my car and my wife's car to the NCT centre on numerous occasions and never had to have the VRC just mine or my wives driving licence. At the end of the day it's €12. Do you expect the state to place protection around your car when you leave it?

FreudianSlippers

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well you could claim the 12 euro from the isurance but remember about the excess on your policy, you will pay the 12 euro yourself.

I meant as part of the wider insurance claim for the break-in. But re-reading OP, it's not clear they are making a claim.

SarahMollie

Dr.Silenec wrote: »

cloloco:

A) Isn't this the reason why we pay Taxes?
.

We all pay taxes - that doesnt entitle us to live in a perfect world. If they didnt charge for this, then more people would simply seek replacements everytime they lost something and then the cost of running the service is increased to the state, and ultimately if the states costs rise, then tax goes up.

Honestly, its €12. Just pay it and move on.

L1011

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

You don't need the VRC for NCT AFAIK.

Test can be done but cert cannot be issued without it.

nhunter100

L1011 wrote:

Test can be done but cert cannot be issued without it.

Guess the 2 centres I have used are in breach of the regs so.

cloloco

Dr.Silenec wrote: »

cloloco:

A) Isn't this the reason why we pay Taxes?
Understandable, therefore I would agree if it's lost I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Now, based on what you're saying I would left it in the house, someone broke into the house and It would be the same, right?

Also, I would believe that If I lock my own property, it's enough precaution from my side to prevent it, I left it in my own locked down property.

Its not a 'tax' its a fee for a replacement cert.

How do they know you didn't just lose it?

Locking stuff in your property doesn't always deter criminals but you can make it more difficult for them, but thats a lesson learnt.

L1011

nhunter100 wrote: »

Guess the 2 centres I have used are in breach of the regs so.

They are.

nhunter100

L1011 wrote:

They are.

I won't name the centres so. :-)

Thoie

nhunter100 wrote: »

I won't name the centres so. :-)

I won't name my two either. Maybe they're the same two? I bring the VRC with me, but no-one's ever looked at it. They do take a good look at my ID these days though.

Sleeper12

Dr.Silenec wrote:

So just to answer a few question, it was in the car because I was just about to go for an NCT test, just needed to get something done beforehands. I don't normally leave it in the car.

If a laptop was in the car & stolen would you expect the government to buy a new one because they couldn't protect your car?
I don't mean to sound harsh but gardai ask you not to leave important documents or valuable goods unattended in locked cars.
It's one of these things that happens in life. Put it behind you and move on to happier things

FreudianSlippers

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If a laptop was in the car & stolen would you expect the government to buy a new one because they couldn't protect your car?
I don't mean to sound harsh but gardai ask you not to leave important documents or valuable goods unattended in locked cars.
It's one of these things that happens in life. Put it behind you and move on to happier things

Yeah. What else am I paying taxes for?







/sarcasm

Losty Dublin

L1011 wrote: »

Test can be done but cert cannot be issued without it.

I've gone through 15 or 16 NCT's. The only time I was ever asked for a VRC was going through a PSV suitability test in 2006.

GM228

L1011 wrote: »

nhunter100 wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

Test can be done but cert cannot be issued without it.

Guess the 2 centres I have used are in breach of the regs so.

They are.

The NCT cert can and does often be issued without the VRC, the regulations do not make it mandatory, however they do give the NCT the option to refuse to issue the cert if you don't have the VRC with you so it's best to always bring it with you.

the_syco

Dr.Silenec; go pay the charge right the f**k now. No if's or buts.

Or the new owner which you sold the car to for €400 cash now owns it.

Because if the thief is in anyway smart, they'll have someone become it's new owner by sending the VRC to Shannon for change of ownership.

Oh, and tell the cops that it's stolen.

emeldc

Thoie wrote: »

I won't name my two either. Maybe they're the same two? I bring the VRC with me, but no-one's ever looked at it. They do take a good look at my ID these days though.

They ask you to bring the VRC so they can cross check the chassis no with the reg no if necessary. It stops the wide boys bringing in their mates mint '04 micra fitted with the plates from a '98 pile o' sh1t.

ezra_

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

You don't need the VRC for NCT AFAIK.

I don't even understand the second question TBH.

Not true. The VRC can be asked for if there is a question about ownership.
I had bought a car and had an NCT very quickly after the purchase date.

The NCT database still showed the old owner, so they asked for the VRC.
The girl I spoke to when booking had called this in advance, so it was no problem to show it to them, and they amended it on their system so the NCT would be issued in my name.

They can ask for it, and will refuse to either issue the cert or perform the test (I don't know which) if you don't have it. It is rare though.