Dishonest Letting Agency ?

learn_more

Two agency reps notified me in person in my apartment that my rent was reviewed and would be increased by approx 35%. This is in line with market rent. They were doing the rounds in the apartment block that day.

They were perfectly charming and said they were obliged to give 90 days notice but in fact were giving me an additional 3 weeks, where I was made to feel I should be thankful for that. I was asked at that meeting how long I had been a tenant there.

I took independent advice and learned that because I had only been their tenant at that point for 16 months my rent could not be reviewed as new legislation states that 24 months must have passed before a review is legal.

I notified them of such in writing and they responded that they agreed. Fine.
Then at 21 months into my tenancy they posted out a notification of the rent review, thus giving the 90 days notice.

I spoke with them on the phone about this and argued that can't give me the 90 days notice at 21 months, it must be 24 months.

The rep argued that the new legislation didn't come into effect until late November but that they had issued the notice in early November thus the notice timing was valid. She seemed completely firm and positive about this and what she said seemed logical to me. This meant I had to pay the increase 3 months earlier than I was expecting.

I took independent advice again and learned that the relevant legislation came into effect in December of the previous year and not when the rep said it did meaning I was correct in respect of when it was valid to send me the 90 days notice, and the rep completely wrong. That is the story to date and I'm waiting to hear back from them.

Now if all that made sense and apologies if it's not clear, do you agree that I have been advised correctly and I'm in the right?

Also, if I am in the right, isn't it incredulous that a large letting agency would not be fully aware of the legislation from the very beginning and the day they saw me eyeball to eyeball in my apartment. I've never dealt with a letting agency before and I'm very disappointed with they way they appear to be deliberately pulling the wool over my eyes. Is this normal practice in this business?

davo10

Op, I assume that you rented the property 16 months ago, it was a new tenancy and that you didn't move into a property with existing tenants who began a tenancy agreement some months before you moved in.

Op, this is going to be win-win for you.

The notice of increase is invalid for sure, you cannot have a rent review until 24 months has passed since you last review/date tenancy began.

I'm assuming you are not in a designated rent pressure zone, the rent would only be going up 4% at most if you are.

But here is the real prize, the first notice you recieved is a rent review, it is invalid, and the EA/LL cannot now undertake another rent review for 24 months from the date on that review. In otherwords, your rent will not increase above its current rate for another 2 years.

Holysock

davo10 wrote: »

But here is the real prize, the first notice you recieved is a rent review, it is invalid, and the EA/LL cannot now undertake another rent review for 24 months from the date on that review. In otherwords, your rent will not increase above its current rate for another 2 years.

Could you explain this one further? Why can't the letting agent not just follow up with a valid notice at 24 months instead of 21, giving the correct notice?

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

But here is the real prize, the first notice you recieved is a rent review, it is invalid, and the EA/LL cannot now undertake another rent review for 24 months from the date on that review. In otherwords, your rent will not increase above its current rate for another 2 years.

That sounds like pure nonsense. An invalid review doesn't reset the clock.

davo10

Holysock wrote: »

Could you explain this one further? Why can't the letting agent not just follow up with a valid notice at 24 months instead of 21, giving the correct notice?

I thought the exact same as you until recently, I thought the LL could just hand an amended, valid notice to the tenant at the correct time.

But another poster (4ensic15 I think), posted a link to a recent RTB case which clearly ruled that a rent review cannot be undertaken within a 24 month period from the last one. If a LL serves an invalid notice, even though it is invalid, it is recorded as a rent review, therefore the LL cannot do another review for 2 years from the date of the invalid review.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

I thought the exact same as you until recently, I thought the LL could just hand an amended, valid notice to the tenant at the correct time.

But another poster (4ensic15 I think), posted a link to a recent RTB case which clearly ruled that a rent review cannot be undertaken within a 24 month period from the last one. If a LL serves an invalid notice, even though it is invalid, it is recorded as a rent review, therefore the LL cannot do another review for 2 years from the date of the invalid review.

You don't have the link handy do you? That decision sounds farcical to say the least.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

You don't have the link handy do you? That decision sounds farcical to say the least.

http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/tribunal-reports/tr0216-001600-dr1215-22832-report.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Deub

I understand the rent review cannot be done again within 12 months not 24 months.

davo10

Deub wrote: »

I understand the rent review cannot be done again within 12 months not 24 months.

The rent review cannot be done before the period during which a another review is barred, it used to be 12 months, that was increased to 24 months.

jimmycrackcorm

Deub wrote:

I understand the rent review cannot be done again within 12 months not 24 months.

It was in 2015 hence 12 months.

runawaybishop wrote:

You don't have the link handy do you? That decision sounds farcical to say the least.

The landlord lost because he didn't appeal in the correct timeframe, so effectively it became two rent reviews instead of appealing the original one.

learn_more

@davo10, yes you assumed correctly.

So yes it's looks like I am in the right; I was pretty sure of that part anyway.

But this part was the main reason I posted:

Also, if I am in the right, isn't it incredulous that a large letting agency would not be fully aware of the legislation from the very beginning and the day they saw me eyeball to eyeball in my apartment. I've never dealt with a letting agency before and I'm very disappointed with they way they appear to be deliberately pulling the wool over my eyes. Is this normal practice in this business?

Again, isn't it obviously they were pulling a fast one and isn't this reprehensible behaviour ? You could understand a private landlord being unaware of the rules or even bending them deliberately, but a reputable chain letting agency with a reputation to uphold !

learn_more

Update: The agency never got back to me when I proved to them that I was in the right. Instead they accepted without saying so and instead sent me out another 90 days notice which was in order. Except the percentage increase on the rent this time is stated as 62.5% whereas their review last November was 35%. : (

Michael D Not Higgins

learn_more wrote: »

Update: The agency never got back to me when I proved to them that I was in the right. Instead they accepted without saying so and instead sent me out another 90 days notice which was in order. Except the percentage increase on the rent this time is stated as 62.5% whereas their review last November was 35%. : (

Are you in one of the rent pressure zones?

Edit: even if you're not, I'd still dispute this with the RTB as it amounts to three rent reviews within the period of 24 months from the start of the tenancy.

learn_more

No I ain't. I've a feeling there are a lot more rent pressure zones than the government have identified.

I'm concerned about taking 'action' as if nothing comes of it then I will have to pay the huge increase whereas maybe it would be wiser to use the 3 or so months I have now to find new accommodation. Although that won't be easy either and I really don't won't to move out. Anyway I'll look into your suggestion at least , thanks.

The_Conductor

learn_more wrote: »

No I ain't. I've a feeling there are a lot more rent pressure zones than the government have identified.

I'm concerned about taking 'action' as if nothing comes of it then I will have to pay the huge increase whereas maybe it would be wiser to use the 3 or so months I have now to find new accommodation. Although that won't be easy either and I really don't won't to move out. Anyway I'll look into your suggestion at least , thanks.

Find 3 comparable properties in the vicinity (obviously not in the block- seeing as they own the entire block)- and dispute the rise with the RTB- with 3 examples of comparable properties in the area- and let the agency dispute you. The system will support you- if you can show that the requested increase is not in keeping with rents in the immediate area- its up to you to show that though.

odyssey06

Weasels will lie to your face and then pretend they didn't say it.

Any dealings with this agency should henceforth be in writing, or inform them that you are recording the conversation.
You will see they become markedly more reticent about what they say.

Same as if someone comes to my door from company X. I've had door to door people from large phone\broadband companies spout absolute nonsense to get a sale. You ask them for a leaflet or something in writing and if they can't give you something there and then - and saying "It's all on the website" doesn't count - then assume they are lying weasels and treat them accordingly.

odyssey06

ps you really should read this - the bottom section covers those properties not in a rent pressure zone:
http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/how-to-deal-with-rent-increases/

It is up to them to provide 3 comparable properties justifying the 65% increase "which have been advertised in the previous four weeks to your review", and the rent review "cannot be given before the expiry of the 24 month period."
Also, you cannot be notified in person of a rent review, "email, text or verbal notice are not valid".
Just one of those strikes would mean the review is invalid, and they have three!

learn_more

@odyssey06, the first invalid review did not contain any comparable properties. The second invalid review did but they were all in the same apartment block I'm living in. The one I got today mentions 3 properties at the same cost but absolutely no indication of where these are advertised. It's just text on a sheet of paper. So I've no way to check if they are valid. In any case I have seen at least one advertised property as a cost the same as what they want to increase mine too but it was rather swanky in comparison to my current place. I think that makes no difference though. Anyway I will checkout daft at least an see what's on the market now.

odyssey06

If you cant track down the ads for the three comparison properties then you should refer the new notice to the RTB on those grounds. You only have 28 days to decide.

If you can find comparable properties with lower rents currently advertised then also use that as part of your casem.

Michael D Not Higgins

learn_more wrote: »

In any case I have seen at least one advertised property as a cost the same as what they want to increase mine too but it was rather swanky in comparison to my current place. I think that makes no difference though.

It does make a difference. The comparison properties must be similar in size, type, character, area. The fact that it might be fitted out better makes it of a higher character and thus could be a basis for higher rent.