Why firearms are so strictly controlled in Ireland and UK

NiallBoo

NiallBoo wrote: »

People having guns dramatically increases the likelihood of someone getting killed - ie. If you try to defend yourself with a gun then you're more likely to die.

"Defending yourself with a gun" is also quite rightly considered murder in this country. Nobody has the right to take your stuff, but the criminal still has infinitely more right to life than you do to have a TV.

I'd disagree here, I think when someone choses to tresspass on my property and try rob my possessions their 'right to life' is gone until I feel me and my familly are safe. I wouldn't kill someone for the sake of it but I have no sympathy for someone killed when robbing a house.

Johnboner

Johnboner wrote: »

That's what I am saying, require strict vetting before being able to purchase a firearm.

There is and you can.
What's stopping you getting a gun?

NiallBoo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd disagree here, I think when someone choses to tresspass on my property and try rob my possessions their 'right to life' is gone until I feel me and my familly are safe. I wouldn't kill someone for the sake of it but I have no sympathy for someone killed when robbing a house.

Nobody wants to hurt you or your family, they just want your stuff.
Then if you shoot them then you must understand that its just because you value your stuff over a human life -nothing to do with your own safety.

People are people. They're not good or bad, just people. That person taking your stuff might be an asshole, but they're still a person with some absolutely basic rights. I'm very grateful that the law agrees with me on this one.

You're not judge, jury and executioner. You don't get to take the law into your own hands (and even the law doesn't choose kill or maim people).

NiallBoo

NiallBoo wrote: »

Nobody wants to hurt you or your family, they just want your stuff.
Then if you shoot them then you must understand that its just because you value your stuff over a human life -nothing to do with your own safety.

People are people. They're not good or bad, just people. That person taking your stuff might be an asshole, but they're still a person with some absolutely basic rights. I'm very grateful that the law agrees with me on this one.

You're not judge, jury and executioner. You don't get to take the law into your own hands (and even the law doesn't choose kill or maim people).

To be honest there is no reasoning it, if you break into a house and you die while robbing a house you deserve it. Just dont rob houses, its that simples.

The bolded point is right, if someone robs my TV and gets away, I have no right to then the next day go kill him because the act is over and its now up to the law to deal with it. If I catch him in the act and I feel threatened that is fair game.

NiallBoo

NiallBoo wrote: »

Nobody wants to hurt you or your family, they just want your stuff.
Then if you shoot them then you must understand that its just because you value your stuff over a human life -nothing to do with your own safety.

People are people. They're not good or bad, just people. That person taking your stuff might be an asshole, but they're still a person with some absolutely basic rights. I'm very grateful that the law agrees with me on this one.

You're not judge, jury and executioner. You don't get to take the law into your own hands (and even the law doesn't choose kill or maim people).

I'd be of the opinion Padraig Nally deserves a medal so you are probably arguing with the wrong person on this point.

uptherebels

blindside88 wrote: »

I'm not talking about shooting it I'm your back garden ffs. I'm talking about shooting it on your own farm, there are laws as regards how close you can be to a property. I'm also not talking about shooting a grenade launcher. Have you ever heard a regular rifle being shot? You'd want to be very close to hear a .22

you said private land, that covers alot more than just farms..I am from the country and a fair distance from the closest neighbour and still wouldn't want it. Again a regular rifle covers alot more than .22. you can still hear it easily at a 1/2 mile id say, depending which direction the shooter is facing, larger rounds further.
What does the law say on distance? 40/50 meters?

blindside88

uptherebels wrote: »

you said private land, that covers alot more than just farms..I am from the country and a fair distance from the closest neighbour and still wouldn't want it. Again a regular rifle covers alot more than .22. you can still hear it easily at a 1/2 mile id say, depending which direction the shooter is facing, larger rounds further.
What does the law say on distance? 40/50 meters?

I think it's in and around the 60 feet range, it's never been of an issue for me. There are also laws in relation to noise pollution. The reason I think it's ridiculous is that there is nothing stopping me going out into the field and shooting 500 clays a day with my shotgun (which will be a lot louder) but yet I can't go out and shoot 10 rounds of my rifle at a target. Do you really think that makes sense?

Berserker

Fired handguns in ranges in the USA on many occasions and it is great fun. Would love to see something similar in Ireland but I can't see it happening. The gun laws here are ridiculous.

KingBrian2

We give the farmers guns and they end up shooting animals. People never behave responsible.:mad: I'd sooner trust a monkey with a gun more than a human.

OxfordColours

KingBrian2 wrote: »

We give the farmers guns and they end up shooting animals. People never behave responsible.:mad: I'd sooner trust a monkey with a gun more than a human.

Ah yeah, barely sentient beings are brilliant at firearms safety

soups05

so if you leave out guns, pepper spray and tazers then what are the legal options for defending yourself in the event of an attack?

lawred2

Johnboner wrote: »

Should be relaxed, let's take a look at our European friends such as Germany and Switzerland, soldiers after serving get to keep their firearms at their homes in Switzerland and it is one of the safest countries in the world. In Germany the rules are strict but it is still possible to own a firearm after all the tests. These are only 2 examples but most other European countries have similar rules where it is actually possible to obtain a firearm. I am not talking about the system like in the USA where in many states you just enter a shop like centra, choose a gun you want and walk out. I would love to be able to shoot watermelons if I want with guns as I find that it is one of the most fun activities you can do which is unfortunately illegal in Ireland, it mostly prevents law abiding citizens from obtaining guns as you can see that it doesn't stop constant gang shootings in Dublin with illegaly obtained firearms.
Also why do we copy everything just from the UK?

Yeah your watermelon fantasy has convinced me. Guns and watermelons for all.

endacl

Johnboner wrote: »

Why are we doing everything for health and safety, we need a bit of danger in this world, you cannot be protected from everything if that's the case let's ban cars, alcohol and cigarettes as they are huge killers

None of those things are (arguably) designed specifically to be lethal weapons.

Elemonator

What is the fascination with guns? Ireland is very safe for gun crime just as much as Switzerland is. It is possible to get guns in Ireland and handguns were available until not so long ago. I'd just like to point out that unlike countries that allow possession of firearms, the Republic of Ireland has never had a large mass shooting ie. school shooting. It probably stems from the fact that Ireland was an unstable country for much of the 20th century between 16, independence, civil war, the Troubles and anger against the Government during the 1980's recession. Add freely available guns to the mix against a small army and unarmed police force, you have got a problem.

And the UK is hardly comparable, we're talking four countries. There is still the remnants of gun shops in Northern Ireland from the Troubles.

Johnboner

Johnboner wrote: »

. I would love to be able to shoot watermelons if I want with guns as I find that it is one of the most fun activities you can do which is unfortunately illegal in Ireland

Is it illegal to shoot watermelons in Ireland?
Are you sure about that OP?

blindside88

bubblypop wrote: »

Johnboner wrote: »

. I would love to be able to shoot watermelons if I want with guns as I find that it is one of the most fun activities you can do which is unfortunately illegal in Ireland

Is it illegal to shoot watermelons in Ireland?
Are you sure about that OP?

Classed as target shooting so unfortunately illegal outside of an authorised range

steddyeddy

In fairness we have a problem with birds of prey bring shot in this country. Less gun control isn't a good idea.

blindside88

blindside88 wrote: »

Classed as target shooting so unfortunately illegal outside of an authorised range

Nothing stopping ya shooting them in ranges!

The flying mouse

Johnboner wrote: »

Watermelon is just an example, targets are fun too, and other fruits.

Why you want to shoot all our fruits ? Can you not just eat them

Berserker

soups05 wrote: »

so if you leave out guns, pepper spray and tazers then what are the legal options for defending yourself in the event of an attack?

You don't. In Ireland, the scumbag attacking you is the victim and it's society's fault that he behaves like a scumbag.

StinkyMunkey

Strict gun controls save lives. Preventing gun deaths out weighs people's enjoyment of shooting **** up a thousand fold. The world needs less guns not more.

James Bond Junior

Johnboner wrote: »

Did you ever try it? Pretty sure you would change after shooting things yourself, it is an extremely fun and relaxing activity.

I have, shot a glock and a .357 revolver amongst several other handguns along with an ak47, 7.62 calibre sniper rifle and other high calibre rifles. I've no desire to pick up a gun again. Went full auto on a UZI machine gun and it scared the bejayus out of me, it's a blessing we have the gun laws we do

mikeoneilly

Had a family member killed with a legally held gun that got into the wrong hands.

Would quite possibly be alive today otherwise.

Graces7

timthumbni wrote: »

We have very strict gun controls due to the terrorist situation but to be honest I agree with it. Most sporting gun/farmers etc know the craic and will have one anyway.

America is just nuts. They are afraid of everything and as such they are in a state of constant paranoia. They should just issue everyone with tazers and reduce the death rate.[/QUOTE]

tasers kill; google that. In the wrong and inexperienced hands ?

Graces7

uptherebels wrote: »

Imagine living next to a guy that spends all day shooting targets, the other side of your garden.

Having lived near crownbangers on 24/7 that does not take any imagination :eek:

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I agree with you, anyone who wants a gun should have to go through extensive training courses and background checks. I do think through certain avenues though people should be allowed guns for self defense.

I think that that is called the thin end of the wedge, or the first step on a very slippery slope.

Graces7

Berserker wrote: »

Fired handguns in ranges in the USA on many occasions and it is great fun. Would love to see something similar in Ireland but I can't see it happening. The gun laws here are ridiculous.

Knocknagoshel near Killarney.

Disagree totally. A gun is not a plaything. It is a deadly weapon designed to kill.

Graces7

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairness we have a problem with birds of prey bring shot in this country. Less gun control isn't a good idea.

And the recent matter of deer shooting in Killarney National Park..

Little CuChulainn

soups05 wrote: »

so if you leave out guns, pepper spray and tazers then what are the legal options for defending yourself in the event of an attack?

Better to prevent the attack in your home. Strong locks, multiple locks on each exterior door, monitored alarm, dog, outside lighting, locked side gate, close blinds at night, light fencing on garden walls that can't hold the weight of a person.

Allinall

Johnboner wrote: »

Watermelon is just an example, targets are fun too, and other fruits.

I ate a target once.

Wouldn't recommend them as one of your five a day.

Allinall

bubblypop wrote: »

There is and you can.
What's stopping you getting a gun?

From the OPs other Garda bashing thread, they have a conviction on their record, so I for one am glad of the restrictions in place.

Watermelons me hole.


http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057695670/15/#post102358524

corner of hells

Allinall wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

There is and you can.
What's stopping you getting a gun?

From the OPs other Garda bashing thread, they have a conviction on their record, so I for one am glad of the restrictions in place.

Watermelons me hole.


http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057695670/15/#post102358524

Oh you naughty boy.

BattleCorp

NiallBoo wrote: »

"Defending yourself with a gun" is also quite rightly considered murder in this country.

Not quite

It all depends on the circumstances. You are allowed to use force to protect yourself if necessary here in Ireland.

But the amount of force you use must be proportional to the threat.

So, if a 6 year old attacks you with a feather duster, you probably wouldn't be allowed to shoot them and claim you were in fear for your life.

But if someone attacked you and your family with an AK 47, then it could be considered appropriate to shoot back. It's a very gray area to be honest.

donegaLroad

Johnboner wrote: »

Should be relaxed, let's take a look at our European friends such as Germany and Switzerland, soldiers after serving get to keep their firearms at their homes in Switzerland and it is one of the safest countries in the world. In Germany the rules are strict but it is still possible to own a firearm after all the tests. These are only 2 examples but most other European countries have similar rules where it is actually possible to obtain a firearm. I am not talking about the system like in the USA where in many states you just enter a shop like centra, choose a gun you want and walk out. I would love to be able to shoot watermelons if I want with guns as I find that it is one of the most fun activities you can do which is unfortunately illegal in Ireland, it mostly prevents law abiding citizens from obtaining guns as you can see that it doesn't stop constant gang shootings in Dublin with illegaly obtained firearms.
Also why do we copy everything just from the UK?

partially to do with the legacy of the Troubles... Im sure it has been mentioned already.

soups05

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Better to prevent the attack in your home. Strong locks, multiple locks on each exterior door, monitored alarm, dog, outside lighting, locked side gate, close blinds at night, light fencing on garden walls that can't hold the weight of a person.

not much use when you jumped in your own front garden

BrokenArrows

Why?

No one needs a gun unless you're a farmer, and if you need one you can legally get one here.

There is no need for the average person to own one.

Little CuChulainn

soups05 wrote: »

not much use when you jumped in your own front garden

Not much is in cases where you are jumped. Unless you went out with a weapon which would be an indication of your intent to injure someone.

blindside88

While I think that guns are too heavily regulated here I would be completely against people having them for "self protection". In the case above if you were jumped at your front door how would you plan on pulling your gun and shooting the attacker? This isn't the movies. I have several guns and it would not be possible for me to use these for defence as I keep the guns in one safe and the bullets in another, the safes are also in different rooms

mikeoneilly

blindside88 wrote: »

While I think that guns are too heavily regulated here I would be completely against people having them for "self protection". In the case above if you were jumped at your front door how would you plan on pulling your gun and shooting the attacker? This isn't the movies. I have several guns and it would not be possible for me to use these for defence as I keep the guns in one safe and the bullets in another, the safes are also in different rooms

Some people keep them loaded beside the bed

Atoms for Peace

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Why?

No one needs a gun unless you're a farmer, and if you need one you can legally get one here.

There is no need for the average person to own one.

Totally agree but still wouldn't mind having an m60, just in case those commies get any ideas. :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X517Utblb00

Rezident

Because guns are people-killing machines.

Since humans are such emotional beings, and some people get very angry sometimes, it should be very hard to kill someone. Guns means you can do it in an instant just by moving your index finger an inch. By the time you have calmed down, it is too late, people are dead. Oops?

There have been plenty of mass killings in countries like Germany, that you don't seem to bee aware of.

AnGaelach

Johnboner wrote: »

Should be relaxed, let's take a look at our European friends such as Germany and Switzerland, soldiers after serving get to keep their firearms at their homes in Switzerland and it is one of the safest countries in the world. In Germany the rules are strict but it is still possible to own a firearm after all the tests. These are only 2 examples but most other European countries have similar rules where it is actually possible to obtain a firearm. I am not talking about the system like in the USA where in many states you just enter a shop like centra, choose a gun you want and walk out. I would love to be able to shoot watermelons if I want with guns as I find that it is one of the most fun activities you can do which is unfortunately illegal in Ireland, it mostly prevents law abiding citizens from obtaining guns as you can see that it doesn't stop constant gang shootings in Dublin with illegaly obtained firearms.

That isn't how it works... Like, at all.

Johnboner wrote: »

Also why do we copy everything just from the UK?

You're aware of a few little groups called Republicans and Loyalists, right? I love guns, but having strict control over guns (and especially calibre) makes sense here. There's no domestic production, whatever comes in has to be imported under license (or bought illegally), meaning it can be (relatively) controlled.

Sure the Republicans used explosives to a greater extent, but I've no doubt that they'd use guns as well if they had greater access to them.

AnGaelach

Rezident wrote: »

Because guns are people-killing machines.

Yeah, all those 150-400,000 odd people in Ireland with guns are out committing murder :rolleyes:

Rezident wrote: »

Since humans are such emotional beings, and some people get very angry sometimes, it should be very hard to kill someone. Guns means you can do it in an instant just by moving your index finger an inch. By the time you have calmed down, it is too late, people are dead. Oops?

Yeah, because it's totally easier to find ammo for your gun, load it and kill someone in the heat of the moment than it is to pick up whatever's nearest you and crack them one across the head.


I get that you're afraid of guns, and that you don't trust yourself to act responsibly with them if someone hurts your feelings, but don't think the rest of us are as childish. Please.

Johnboner

mikeoneilly wrote: »

Had a family member killed with a legally held gun that got into the wrong hands.

Would quite possibly be alive today otherwise.

Had a family member killed by alcohol, ban all alcohol. If there was no alcohol, that person would be alive today.

Johnboner

Allinall wrote: »

From the OPs other Garda bashing thread, they have a conviction on their record, so I for one am glad of the restrictions in place.

Watermelons me hole.


http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057695670/15/#post102358524

Garda bashing thread??? What about the 70 rape accusations of the Gardai? Oh yeah false accusations, sorry, they are super humans so they never ever do any wrong. I would love to have a conversation with you face to face and would explain myself properly as this is beyond ridiculous

Johnboner

AnGaelach wrote: »

That isn't how it works... Like, at all.



You're aware of a few little groups called Republicans and Loyalists, right? I love guns, but having strict control over guns (and especially calibre) makes sense here. There's no domestic production, whatever comes in has to be imported under license (or bought illegally), meaning it can be (relatively) controlled.

Sure the Republicans used explosives to a greater extent, but I've no doubt that they'd use guns as well if they had greater access to them.

Oh really that's not how it works??? Well thanks for telling me because I certainly didn't know that. Nice try pretending to be smart.

323

BrokenArrows wrote: »

There is no need for the average person to own one.

Agree, all those I know involved in shooting and hunting sports are way above the average pleb. And what would be the point in only one

Have 6 at present.

Anyway, shame to be inside on a day like this, off to the hill to check out a new Nightforce scope at distance.
Not watermelons, prefare baloons

wakka12

Johnboner wrote: »

Why are we doing everything for health and safety, we need a bit of danger in this world, you cannot be protected from everything if that's the case let's ban cars, alcohol and cigarettes as they are huge killers

How can you seriously try to use that as an argument? We could literally ban anything because of health and safety issues but many of them are not comparable to guns as guns were made with one use in mind, to kill people

AnGaelach

Johnboner wrote: »

Oh really that's not how it works??? Well thanks for telling me because I certainly didn't know that. Nice try pretending to be smart.

You know what ATS and federal regulations are, right? You can't just "walk in" and get a gun and walk out.

AnGaelach

wakka12 wrote: »

How can you seriously try to use that as an argument? We could literally ban anything because of health and safety issues but many of them are not comparable to guns as guns were made with one use in mind, to kill people

Aye because you can't enjoy clay pigeon or target shooting without secretly wanting to put a .22 in some guy's head.