Rent increase megathread

syndrome777

GGTrek wrote: »

Have you read section 6? It does not matter. If the witness says that an envelope was hand delivered to the address. It becomes the duty of the tenant to show the adjudicator what was the content of the envelope. If in addition the witness testifíes that he saw the content of the envelope before being closed and delivered then it is game over. Section 6 is very favourable to the party serving the notice. Many tenants do not understand this. A defense based on delivery is a difficult defense.

I did read and I do understand what you are saying. And for house it makes perfect sense, but in a building like mine where is 16 apts and mail boxes are right there on the open and main gates are constantly broken so anyone has access. I can see and know how a lot of post and small packages just go missing.

BBMcQ

hidinginthebush wrote: »

One thing... our last rent review was more than 2 years ago, so can our rent be increased by more than 4% to bring it up to market levels?

My housemate thinks the rent review take priority over the 4% rule if it's below market rates, I though the 4% cap trumps everything, but can't find a definitive answer either way

I think it's 8% if there has been no review in the previous 2 years. Maybe someone can confirm... then 4% a year going forward.

Paulw

BBMcQ wrote: »

I think it's 8% if there has been no review in the previous 2 years. Maybe someone can confirm... then 4% a year going forward.

Nope, you are incorrect.

I'll try posting this again, maybe someone will actually look at it, and see it's very clear.

http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/rent-pressure-zones

Slydice

Here, I did some looking into it on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057688069

Short of it: It was signed 23/12/2016 and Enacted as Act Number 17 of 2016
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33811&&CatID=59

Enacted as Act Number 17 of 2016
Date of Signature: 23/12/2016
Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016 in PDF format

Also:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Rent Predictability Measure
The Strategy for the Rental Sector proposed a Rent Predictability Measure, to cap rent increases at 4% per year for the next 3 years in designated Rent Pressure Zones. The Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016 brought this measure into effect from 24 December 2016. It has been implemented immediately in the 4 Dublin local authority areas and in Cork city. Rent Pressure Zones are to be designated for a maximum of 3 years.

Sarn

How did they notify you of an increase last time? How do they normally communicate? If I had been in their position I would have followed up with a phone call and an email to avoid any doubt. It seems very unusual that they took a photo of the letter being delivered given the consequences of mistiming the notice.

As mentioned above, I would say that someone messed up and are now trying to cover themselves.

GGTrek

syndrome777 wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

Have you read section 6? It does not matter. If the witness says that an envelope was hand delivered to the address. It becomes the duty of the tenant to show the adjudicator what was the content of the envelope. If in addition the witness testifíes that he saw the content of the envelope before being closed and delivered then it is game over. Section 6 is very favourable to the party serving the notice. Many tenants do not understand this. A defense based on delivery is a difficult defense.

I did read and I do understand what you are saying. And for house it makes perfect sense, but in a building like mine where is 16 apts and mail boxes are right there on the open and main gates are constantly broken so anyone has access. I can see and know how a lot of post and small packages just go missing.

There was a case like yours recently at RTB tribunal. Living in a building, letter hand delivered to mailbox of tenant with witness, since tenant was not available and the person serving had no access to interior of building. It was a notice of termination, the tenant said that he did not receive the notice and the mailbox was shared so someone else could have taken it. He still lost. You have to understand that it does not matter if you have actually received the notice. If the notice has been served at the address written in the tenancy agreement on the date stated, then it is your problem to retrieve it. Otherwise it would become impossible to serve any legal document to a recalcitrant party.

ImARebel

thanks for verifying for me. I appreciate ye taking the time to reply

chakwal

Hi thanks for the pointers so far. I have used the tool mentioned above to check the date of photo. Another person said, it can be edited. I checked any way out of curiosity now.

- photo is not date stamped itself on top of it
- but using the tool i checked it was taken on 22 dec at 23:22:55 time.
- note that photo is showing one hand with envelope with my name and mail box on back side.
- this is apartment building of 34 apartments and all mail boxes are on ground floor.

In another thread in boards.ie, i read that "It was signed in to law on the 23rd Dec 2016." i.e. 4% cap law.
and i also read it became effective from 24th Dec.

chakwal

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/landlords-warned-not-to-raise-rents-ahead-of-new-law-1.2420631


is there any article/link for similar law this time. i.e. landlords are warned to not raise rends ahead of new law.

exaisle

chakwal wrote: »

Hi thanks for the pointers so far. I have used the tool mentioned above to check the date of photo. Another person said, it can be edited. I checked any way out of curiosity now.

- photo is not date stamped itself on top of it
- but using the tool i checked it was taken on 22 dec at 23:22:55 time.
- note that photo is showing one hand with envelope with my name and mail box on back side.
- this is apartment building of 34 apartments and all mail boxes are on ground floor.

In another thread in boards.ie, i read that "It was signed in to law on the 23rd Dec 2016." i.e. 4% cap law.
and i also read it became effective from 24th Dec.

You could ask the agent to check what time the letter was delivered. If it's not after 11pm on December 22nd then you can suggest that it's not valid.
Also, is there anything in the pic to suggest that it was nighttime? (ie.were the lights on or does the background of the pic show daylight outside??) Or is there anything else in the background to suggest that it's not genuine?

choons

Also some phones will add the gps location to the photo metadata. Did this show up on the online check?

BBMcQ

Paulw wrote: »

Nope, you are incorrect.

I'll try posting this again, maybe someone will actually look at it, and see it's very clear.

http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/rent-pressure-zones

<mod snip>

From the link:


Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months:
For tenancies that are already in existence a review is only permitted 24 months after the tenancy came in to existence or 24 months from the date the rent was last set. In this instance m = 24.
For this initial rent review after the 24 month period as specified above a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply. (This amounts to 2% per annum applied pro-rata for the period since the rent was last increased).

athtrasna

Mod note

BBMcQ if you have an issue with a post please use the report post function. Or take it to pm if you have an issue with another poster. Thanks

MicktheMan

Hypothetical situation at the moment (but can see it happening):
Market rent for house is 1500 but was previously rented for 1000 when new legislation enacted and landlord is now stuck on below market rent. The previous tenants move out of their own accord. House goes on the rental market and a prospective tenant offers 1300, well above the 4% but below market rent. If a tenancy is created at 1300, is this legal?

Samuel T. Cogley

Just musing - probably legal but unenforceable. The tenant could probably get in, raise a complaint and either be honest and look for clarification on the legal point only or (probably more likely) claim they had no idea what they were doing.

Samuel T. Cogley

BBMcQ wrote: »

Didn't want to quote your entire soliquay so I snipped the above. I never said the rent was less than the mortgage. I said before the change in tenant, the landlord was happy with a good tenant paying below MV, so they need to go out and find another good tenant to offset the gap in the rent chargeable vs "market rent".

I have absolutely no sympathy for a Joe soap who took a punt in circa 2005 by taking a mortgage on a 2nd "investment property" and hoping the rent chargeable would pay the mortgage leaving him/her with a handy asset ever increasing in value. Many of these properties were bought by the "sure with property you can't lose" brigade.

For the record I'm far far from a socialist but I'm hugely frustrated by this so-called rental/property crisis which is nothing more than the generation born in the 50's strangling the country's young people just because they feel entitled by the luck of the DOB to wealth.

The way it's going large companies will eventually take over the rental sector in Dublin. When that happens there will be no further laws like the ones enacted recently as those companies won't allow it at a lobbying level and if it does some how get out of that stage their legal teams will get the legislation quashed. As it stands the amendments to the RTA are arguably unconstitutional but I'll leave that for Legal Discussions.

Secondly the huge revenue stream that comes from rental properties will dry-up. At best these companies will pay corporation tax rates at worst they'll create some tax avoidance mechanism and pay close to zero tax.

Thirdly rents will finally be completely out of control as apartment complexes are bought out wholesale (as they currently are from NAMA), a gym put in a maid employed and them rented out as 'short-stay serviced apartments' at €2000 a month for a one bed. There will be a few private landlords renting out houses, who's rents will be adjusted accordingly to the new rents for a one and two bed apartment.

We'll be harking back to the days of the old idiots, accidental landlords and AirBnB. There is no scenario involving a bunch of disorganised, ill informed 'investors' that can't be made worse by them not being there, and it going over to organised, well informed companies. Government needs to get out of the private market, let it do what it's going to do and use the tax revenue generated to put in place a robust and well thought out social housing safety net for those that can't compete in the private market. That will naturally drive rents down. Feck all votes in it though.

FishOnABike

chakwal wrote: »

Hi thanks for the pointers so far. I have used the tool mentioned above to check the date of photo. Another person said, it can be edited. I checked any way out of curiosity now.

- photo is not date stamped itself on top of it
- but using the tool i checked it was taken on 22 dec at 23:22:55 time.
- note that photo is showing one hand with envelope with my name and mail box on back side.
- this is apartment building of 34 apartments and all mail boxes are on ground floor.

In another thread in boards.ie, i read that "It was signed in to law on the 23rd Dec 2016." i.e. 4% cap law.
and i also read it became effective from 24th Dec.

I could take a picture of today's newspaper with the same date stamp in the exif data without having to edit or modify it after it was taken. The picture and its exif data proves nothing.

If I had genuinely hand delivered something in the manner described and gone to the trouble of taking a picture as 'proof' I would have followed up immediately with the request for acknowledgement, not a month later to dispell any doubt as to when the delivery was made.

I would think the delay between the proported delivery and the request to acknowledge it is highly dubious.

GoldFour4

For something that was clearly very reliant on being delivered on the 22nd they should have gone to more effort than a photo at the postbox.

Registered post is the only way to go. Can't believe an agency would be so unprofessional. A landlord is potentially finding themselves with a property getting 25% less than market rent because of their lack of cop on.

Paulw

The rent must be up to a maximum of 4% of the previous rent, if rented out within the previous two years. That's the law.

Paulw

BBMcQ wrote: »

From the link:

Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months:
For tenancies that are already in existence a review is only permitted 24 months after the tenancy came in to existence or 24 months from the date the rent was last set. In this instance m = 24.
For this initial rent review after the 24 month period as specified above a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply. (This amounts to 2% per annum applied pro-rata for the period since the rent was last increased).

Thanks for posting the exact text, showing that for tenancies that are already in existence and the Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months "a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply".

The new law now allows a maximum increase of 4% per annum, going forward from the last rent review.

Thestones

So someone at the agency works at 11.20 at night to deliver a letter? Seems highly odd.

ted1

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Sounds suspicious. Why would they take a photo putting a letter in a box? Contact PRTB.

Because people claim to not get letters and the agent is clearly very professional and used to chancers.

exaisle

I'd advise the Landlord to carry out substantial improvements to the property....then an increase of more than 4% is permitted.

ted1

Lumen wrote: »

That is data is editable, so proves nothing.

If only there was a way to register the fact that something was posted. They could call it Registered Post.

On the 22nd Of December? Wouldn't arrive on time

ted1

malistheman wrote: »

For something that was clearly very reliant on being delivered on the 22nd they should have gone to more effort than a photo at the postbox.

Registered post is the only way to go. Can't believe an agency would be so unprofessional. A landlord is potentially finding themselves with a property getting 25% less than market rent because of their lack of cop on.

Registered post in a Thursday 3 days before Christmas would not be delivered till the 27th at the earliest

TheAnalyst_

ted1 wrote: »

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Sounds suspicious. Why would they take a photo putting a letter in a box? Contact PRTB.

Because people claim to not get letters and the agent is clearly very professional and used to chancers.

That is why you use registered mail.

ted1

Thestones wrote: »

So someone at the agency works at 11.20 at night to deliver a letter? Seems highly odd.

Seems very likely , with the new law coming in you can be sure that the while office was busy hand delivering the letters to all their tenants

ted1

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

That is why you use registered mail.

Law was coming in on the 24th, the notice wouldn't be delivered before then

Thestones

ted1 wrote: »

Seems very likely , with the new law coming in you can be sure that the while office was busy hand delivering the letters to all their tenants

Surely then after the panic of delivering it so last minute they would follow up the next day with a call to make sure tenant received it. The agency clearly messed up whatever way you look at it.

ted1

Thestones wrote: »

Surely then after the panic of delivering it so last minute they would follow up the next day with a call to make sure tenant received it. The agency clearly messed up whatever way you look at it.

Why? They knew it was delivered and gave the tenants a month to mull it over.

How do you think the messed up? They seem pretty on the ball to me.


Hand delivered notice and have proof

Gave three reference sites

Gave enough notice and let the tenant mull it over for a month