Rent increase megathread

April 73

This is an interesting hypothetical actually.

Suppose the renter really wanted to secure the property & offered the advertised rent plus offered to pay any agency fees, extra rent for the parking space & the management fee (if applicable) - what would stop this deal being done?

If the rent is in line with the legislation - then there's nothing to stop this. Just have the extra payments documented as separate to the monthly rent.

blindside88

Just a quick question on this point because it is an interesting question. Is there some sort of database where the previous rent for each property is being held or how would a perspective tenant or the prtb know that the rent is only 4% more than the previous tenant was paying?

April 73

This is the other point. The RTB are supposed to have records of rent from when tenancies begin. In many cases people have never bothered to update the RTB when rents went up. The records are definitely patchy.
You could argue that Revenue know previous tents.
But who is going to be accountable for checking & correlating all the records & making sure rents don't rise by more than 4% in RPZs.
The whole thing is currently unworkable & uncheckable.

MicktheMan

Paulw wrote: »

The rent must be up to a maximum of 4% of the previous rent, if rented out within the previous two years. That's the law.

Yes, but where both the landlord and tenant mutually agree to a rent higher than the 4% and document this fact in the lease, surely that's also within the law.

MicktheMan

Donal55 wrote: »

Why would a tenant agree to more than 4% of an increase?

Market is 1500, severe shortage of property to rent in desired area, bidding war ensues.

CIARAN_BOYLE

MicktheMan wrote: »

Yes, but where both the landlord and tenant mutually agree to a rent higher than the 4% and document this fact in the lease, surely that's also within the law.

Problem is that there's 10 other people that would have paid the legal maximum that now can't get a property.

MicktheMan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Problem is that there's 10 other people that would have paid the legal maximum that now can't get a property.

But there's still only one property being advertised so 10 people would still be without!

Samuel T. Cogley

Avoiding bidding wars is no doubt an aim of the legislation. Personally it's one (of the very few) elements I agree with.

Fkall

Sarn wrote: »

How did they notify you of an increase last time? How do they normally communicate? If I had been in their position I would have followed up with a phone call and an email to avoid any doubt. It seems very unusual that they took a photo of the letter being delivered given the consequences of mistiming the notice.

As mentioned above, I would say that someone messed up and are now trying to cover themselves.

Issuing a rent review just prior to the introduction of legislation capping rent increases - an estate agent / landlord would be foolish not to take a photo.

Nothing suspicious here just a little bit of foresight.

Fkall

Thestones wrote: »

So someone at the agency works at 11.20 at night to deliver a letter? Seems highly odd.

Not really - a last minute push to ensure all properties due a rent review received it prior to the introduction of a rent cap.

hidinginthebush

Paulw wrote: »

Nope, it's 4% of the previous rate. If the landlord charged below market rate previously, then that is their loss.

All details are on the RTB website - http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/rent-pressure-zones

Thanks for the link. Looks fairly straight forward from that website. That's what I suspected (and hoped) was the case

eddiem74

If a tenant was notified in November 2016 of a rent review and subsequent rent increase which would be effective from March 1st 2017, is this still capped at the 4% now? Or as that rent increase was notified prior it can still proceed?

hidinginthebush

bigpink wrote: »

600 increase ****kk

You think that's bad, when the lads moved in initially 4 years ago the rent was €1000

syndrome777

ted1 wrote: »

Registered post in a Thursday 3 days before Christmas would not be delivered till the 27th at the earliest

it doesn't matter when it would be delivered, it would matter the date on the letter and when it was sent.

GerardKeating

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

That is why you use registered mail.

Register email does not always work will in apartment block, esp if the tenant does not want to get the mail, don't buzy the postman in, and don't bother to collect the mail if postie leaves a note.

testaccount123

If the OP declines the rent hike and moves out the landlord will only be allowed to raise the rent to 4% above it's current rate...

ted1

testaccount123 wrote: »

If the OP declines the rent hike and moves out the landlord will only be allowed to raise the rent to 4% above it's current rate...

Debatable as the rent has increased already. If the tenant moves out because he doesn't want to pay it then the new tenant will.

varuka

Paulw wrote: »

Thanks for posting the exact text, showing that for tenancies that are already in existence and the Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months "a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply".

The new law now allows a maximum increase of 4% per annum, going forward from the last rent review.

What if rent wasn't increased in 36 months... is it still 4% max total?

testaccount123

testaccount123 wrote: »

If the OP declines the rent hike and moves out the landlord will only be allowed to raise the rent to 4% above it's current rate...

Wrong, the notice has already set new rent (if the notice is deemed legimate) so even if the op moved out the new rent can be 4% above the rent in the notice.

Paulw

varuka wrote: »

What if rent wasn't increased in 36 months... is it still 4% max total?

Yes. The law says to a maximum of 4%.

varuka

Paulw wrote: »

Yes. The law says to a maximum of 4%.

So it's not 4% per year since last rent review which would be a total of 12%?

Paulw

varuka wrote: »

So it's not 4% per year since last rent review which would be a total of 12%?

What part of maximum do you not understand? The RTB website is very clear.

beauf

varuka wrote: »

What if rent wasn't increased in 36 months... is it still 4% max total?

I doubt LLs will leave such long gaps again.

eddiem74

If a tenant was notified in November 2016 of a rent review and subsequent rent increase which would be effective from March 1st 2017, is this still capped at the 4% now? Or as that rent increase was notified prior it can still proceed?

Paulw

eddiem74 wrote: »

If a tenant was notified in November 2016 of a rent review and subsequent rent increase which would be effective from March 1st 2017, is this still capped at the 4% now? Or as that rent increase was notified prior it can still proceed?

Seems that once notification was served correctly, then the increase would be valid (above the 4%). So, it would not be capped at 4%.

Paulw

A new rent increase thread, merging others.

Vojera

Looking for clarification on this, please.

Our landlord sent an email last week saying our rent would be increasing by the minimum 4% from the end of April. That was fine, we accepted that and he acknowledged our acceptance.

Today he sent another email saying that his initial email was sent in error and that the 4% rise didn't count until next year, and that he would instead be increasing the rent by 14%.

Is this legal? I feel like we're being taken for a ride.

For the record, our last notice of increase was in March 2015 to take effect the end of April 2015.

Paulw

Vojera wrote: »

Looking for clarification on this, please.

Our landlord sent an email last week saying our rent would be increasing by the minimum 4% from the end of April. That was fine, we accepted that and he acknowledged our acceptance.

Today he sent another email saying that his initial email was sent in error and that the 4% rise didn't count until next year, and that he would instead be increasing the rent by 14%.

Is this legal?

Not legal if you are in a designated rent pressure zone.

Refer your landlord to http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/rent-pressure-zones

stateofflux

I need a bit of advice. Ive been in my bedsit for 3 years. Im Due rent increase in march (after 2 years). I pay €680 a month.

Got a letter the day before Coveney made his binding annoucement saying my rent will go up to €950 from the 1st of july. Also attached were daft printouts of 2 studios (double the size of mine and much fancier) for around €950.

Just wondering why he is delaying increase till july?

Vojera

Paulw wrote: »

Not legal if you are in a designated rent pressure zone.

Refer your landlord to http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/rent-pressure-zones

Looking at this document from the RTB, it does look like the initial increase after two years is allowed to be more than 4%: http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/legislative-changes/sample-notice-of-rent-review.docx
However, that is linked to from Citizens Information, not the RTB website. I can't see this anywhere else, though. Is this incorrect?

Paulw

stateofflux wrote: »

I need a bit of advice. Ive been in my bedsit for 3 years. Im Due rent increase in march (after 2 years). I pay €680 a month.

Got a letter the day before Coveney made his binding annoucement saying my rent will go up to €950 from the 1st of july. Also attached were daft printouts of 2 studios (double the size of mine and much fancier) for around €950.

Just wondering why he is delaying increase till july?

Firstly, he couldn't review the rent in 2016, if you had a review in 2015, due to the law at the time. He was trying to sneak in the rent increase by giving notice before the new law was enacted.

However, if notice was not served correctly (giving the required notice, plus similar property rent in the area), then I believe you could have a good case to dispute this attempt of an increase.

You would need to contact the RTB about this, or even have a chat with Threshold.

Paulw

Vojera wrote: »

Looking at this document from the RTB, it does look like the initial increase after two years is allowed to be more than 4%: http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/legislative-changes/sample-notice-of-rent-review.docx
However, that is linked to from Citizens Information, not the RTB website. I can't see this anywhere else, though. Is this incorrect?

The RTB, and the law are very clear.

In these areas, called Rent Pressure Zones, rents will only be able to rise by a maximum of 4% annually.

Everything else in the pages supports that one line statement.

Now, it doesn't matter about previous increases, the law now states that rent can be raised by a maximum of 4%.

If there was a rent review last year, under the previous law, then you could be limited to a value less than 4%, as per their formula. Rent, as of when the new law was enacted, can be raised to a maximum of 4% per annum.

Paulw

Paulw wrote: »

The RTB, and the law are very clear.

In these areas, called Rent Pressure Zones, rents will only be able to rise by a maximum of 4% annually.

Everything else in the pages supports that one line statement.

Now, it doesn't matter about previous increases, the law now states that rent can be raised by a maximum of 4%.

If there was a rent review last year, under the previous law, then you could be limited to a value less than 4%, as per their formula. Rent, as of when the new law was enacted, can be raised to a maximum of 4% per annum.

According to the formula supplied by Citizens advice, if you haven't had a review for 4 years, you could get an 8% bump initially, followed by 4% per annum after that.

Paulw

Basil3 wrote: »

According to the formula supplied by Citizens advice, if you haven't had a review for 4 years, you could get an 8% bump initially, followed by 4% per annum after that.

The formula has a clarification with it -

Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months:
For tenancies that are already in existence a review is only permitted 24 months after the tenancy came in to existence or 24 months from the date the rent was last set. In this instance m = 24.
For this initial rent review after the 24 month period as specified above a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply.

Again, it states clearly that the maximum increase is 4%.

Paulw

Paulw wrote: »

The formula has a clarification with it -

Landlord has not reviewed the rent in previous 24 months:
For tenancies that are already in existence a review is only permitted 24 months after the tenancy came in to existence or 24 months from the date the rent was last set. In this instance m = 24.
For this initial rent review after the 24 month period as specified above a maximum rent increase of 4% will apply.

Again, it states clearly that the maximum increase is 4%.

I'm not doubting you, but their own example shows a 5% increase from €1200 to €1260 due to there being 30 months since last review (30/24 * 0.04).

juno10353

Renting for 6 yeats no increase for 5. Rent 25% below comparable now. Informed in mid dec of rent increase in march 20% increase. Is this allowed. Notified before new legislation.

GGTrek

juno10353 wrote: »

Renting for 6 yeats no increase for 5. Rent 25% below comparable now.  Informed in mid dec of rent increase in march 20% increase. Is this allowed. Notified before new legislation.

It is allowed

FishOnABike

Fkall wrote: »

Not really - a last minute push to ensure all properties due a rent review received it prior to the introduction of a rent cap.

When An Post have independently verifiably tracked next business day delivery and even tracked same day delivery in the Dublin area why would an agent use a delivery method which is trivially falsifiable?

Pixie89

I received an email from our letting agent last week that out rent will increase 4% from the end of February we are in the rent pressure zone. Our last increase was in January 2016 so would I be right to refuse this increase as it is before 24 months ?

FishOnABike

Fkall wrote: »

Issuing a rent review just prior to the introduction of legislation capping rent increases - an estate agent / landlord would be foolish not to take a photo.

Nothing suspicious here just a little bit of foresight.

So the agent was

smart enough to take immediate action to increase the rent prior to the legislation capping rent increases,

smart enough to take a photograph delivering the notice of increase but not smart enough to include some proof of the date (e.g. newspaper masthead including the date) in the photograph

or possibly smart enough to omit any proof of the date in the photograph.

TheChizler

FishOnABike wrote: »

So the agent was

smart enough to take immediate action to increase the rent prior to the legislation capping rent increases,

smart enough to take a photograph delivering the notice of increase but not smart enough to include some proof of the date (e.g. newspaper masthead including the date) in the photograph

or possibly smart enough to omit any proof of the date in the photograph.

Newspaper is no good if you want proof it wasn't after that date.

Paulw

Pixie89 wrote: »

I received an email from our letting agent last week that out rent will increase 4% from the end of February we are in the rent pressure zone. Our last increase was in January 2016 so would I be right to refuse this increase as it is before 24 months ?

The 24 month rule is now gone. A rent review can take place annually now.

As long as the notification meets the requirements, it sounds like the increase is valid.

slovakchick

Rent Pressure Zones, are these not unworkable?

Pixie89

Thanks Paulw I didn't know that the new rule removed the 24 month freeze we Werent expecting an increase till next year, good to know it will save me a phone call

Sarn

Pixie89 wrote: »

I received an email from our letting agent last week that out rent will increase 4% from the end of February we are in the rent pressure zone. Our last increase was in January 2016 so would I be right to refuse this increase as it is before 24 months ?

Technically it is an invalid notice as they are required to give you 90 days notice.

Paz-CCFC

Basil3 wrote: »

I'm not doubting you, but their own example shows a 5% increase from €1200 to €1260 due to there being 30 months since last review (30/24 * 0.04).

It seems to be the case that rents which were last reviewed more than two years ago can be increased by more than 4%. Section 19(4) of the 2004 Act (inserted by section 34 of the recent legislation) gives the formula as: R x (1 + 0.04 x t/m). R = the amount of rent last set, m = 24 for existing tenancies and 12 otherwise and m = the number of months since the last increase. It doesn't seem to say anything about an absolute cap of 4%. So, if you last reviewed 3 years ago and the rent was set at €1,000, it's:

1,000 x (1 + 0.04 x 36/24) = 1,060, a 6% increase.

Paulw wrote: »

The 24 month rule is now gone. A rent review can take place annually now.

As long as the notification meets the requirements, it sounds like the increase is valid.

My reading of the amended legislation is that all existing tenancies within pressure zones will continue with the pre-existing rent review frequencies (ie, two years) until the next review. Thereafter, it can be reviewed every year.

Section 24C(1) of the 2004 Act as inserted by section 36 of the 2016 Act:

Where a tenancy commenced before the relevant date (within the meaning of section 19(7)) and the area in which the tenancy is situated is in a rent pressure zone (within the meaning of that section), then—

(a) the first rent review after the relevant date shall be carried out in accordance with section 20, and

(b) any subsequent rent review shall be carried out as if subsections (4) to (6) of section 20 had not been enacted.

Section 20(4) of the 2004 Act gives the rent review frequency as every 24 months.

Vojera

Pixie89 wrote: »

I received an email from our letting agent last week that out rent will increase 4% from the end of February we are in the rent pressure zone. Our last increase was in January 2016 so would I be right to refuse this increase as it is before 24 months ?

According to this page, it says "For tenancies that are already in existence a review is only permitted 24 months after the tenancy came in to existence or 24 months from the date the rent was last set."

I would read that as saying your landlord can not increase the rent.

varuka

Paulw wrote: »

What part of maximum do you not understand? The RTB website is very clear.

My landlord is adamant that it's 4% per year since last rent review. Landord says it's in the new law.The chancer... You will get landlords chancing their arms for sure.

Tar.Aldarion

I've just heard about this, so is my understanding correct...a LL could raise rent every two years, that has not changed until the two years are up. After that they can raise it annually but when they do it's a max of 4% annually, up to 12% after 3 years and then it's capped at 12% until they raise it again? Not that I envisage that happening. (Also not sure where I've read this las tbit and since the scheme is only meant to last 3 years anyway)

Michael D Not Higgins

varuka wrote: »

My landlord is adamant that it's 4% per year since last rent review. Landord says it's in the new law.The chancer... You will get landlords chancing their arms for sure.

In fairness, they rushed through the law just before Christmas and we're still debating the wording as it's not very clear. Just to reiterate some points made above (and a couple of others that aren't clear):

• The RTB say a maximum increase of 4% will apply to the initial review however their first example shows a higher than 4% review for one carried out after 29 months (note this also counts 3 extra months for the notice period).
• If your tenancy was in existence before the commencement date, your next review is at least two years after your last review or two years after the tenancy started. Subsequent reviews are allowed yearly.
• If your tenancy started from 24th December on, you are now on yearly reviews.
• The RTB's example 4 shows a tenancy which comes into being on 29th December 2016 with a review 29th December 2017 with new rent 90 days later on 5th April 2018. This means the new rent comes in 15 months after the start of the tenancy and 4%*(15/12) = 5% increase. This is the actual minimum increase since you can't issue notice sooner.