Skerries Development

pinkbear

The reasons why it was rejected have not been mentioned here. All elements of the road and access have stood up to the scrutiny of the Bord. All the objectors' complaints were pretty much ignored by Bord Planala. Here are the facts:

- The Bord claimed the a hotel is not permitted on Open Space lands.
This is true in general, however there was a specific objective in the Masterplan (which is allowed), which means that Fingal County Council voted to build in an exception to this rule. It is not clear why they ignored this.

- The Bord claimed it is "Rural" land.
But it is surrounded by 60 other houses, it has a continuous footpath to the town, public lighting, bus, gas, mains water, electricity. It is closer to the church than Skerries Point, An Claddagh, Barnageera Cover or Skerries Point, all of which are considered not rural.

- The Bord claimed it is visually intrusive.
It's actually barely visible from almost all of Skerries. It's not visually intrusive anywhere.

- The Bord says the land has a "Highly Sensitive Landscape Designation"
Every single part of Skerries has this designation!

- The Bord says that "Hotels should be located in towns"
Firstly Bord Failte wrote to support this hotel, and secondly, if hotels in the town was a priority, why was the Pier House allowed to be converted from a hotel to a private dwelling?

Hamilton Hiller

pinkbear wrote: »

Snapped up as a refugee reception facility??!! Where on earth did you hear this? That's the craziest thing I've heard yet about this development. The (9) NIMBY objectors must be clutching at straws if that's the rubbish they are pedalling. When this development is built, and I have no doubt it will be, their private sea views will be open to all, and they don't like it. Tell you what.... talk to the developers directly.... you can easily contact them via their website www.holmpatrickcove.com.... and ask them yourself about the refugee facility theory. I'm sure they'll put your mind at rest. Or ask the 2500 people who have signed the petition for this to go ahead, or any of the local councillors or politicians who support this development, or Bord Failte Ireland who supported it, or any of the community groups who have assessed it from their viewpoint and written to support it (e.g. the Skerries Community Association, Skerries Tidy Towns, every single sports group in the town, the Soundwaves Festival, the mid Summer Festival, Skerries Tourism, the Skerries Swimming Club, all the scouts groups, the Skerries Kayakers, the Frosties and more). The developers are a large local family, with hundreds of relations and connections in the town..... they are not likely to build 24 luxury houses and a beautiful new hotel in the most stunning location in NCD, to have it "snapped up as a refugee reception facility".

The funny thing about having 2.5k names on a petition... Anyone can lodge an objection when planning is submitted but at the same time people can lodge recommendations for planning applications so where were the 2500 people to sign recommendations when it was lodged ? I know many people and groups gave their support but nowhere near 2500 . Also if the leisure facility is gonna be leased out to a group to run then their main aim will be to make
Money & nobody can say wether there will be an annual fee , what will be the pricing structure etc . The hotel side is being franchised out to a group aswell so basically it is gonna build the facility and the hotel and sell it out to the highest bidder . Yes the town will get a pool and a hotel but at what price . Nobody knows what way the leases or agreements will be made to whoever would take over the running of the hotel or facility. If the operators come in and pay and build the hotel and facility themselves then all that is left is to build is 24 houses with a retail price of between 1m-1.5m . Making the grand total for property on the site in the region of 24 million to 36 million . Take away the cost per unit of 300-500k euro and that is being very generous so 3.6m to 5m euro . There is a hell of a lot of money to be made from the development and even if the complex was built and paid for by the developer at a cost of 5m euro then you will have a costing of 10 million - 5 million for houses and 5 million for the hotel and lets throw down another 10 million for land , fees and what ever else you want and 10 million is some heap of money . We are now sitting at 20 million euro costings and then we said 24-36m in house sales . That leaves us with anywhere in the region of 4m-16m profit plus the income on the rental of the hotel and facility if it's built to be franchised out . So yea there is a lot to be gained by having a pool and hotel in Skerries .

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see and have the facility in Skerries

pinkbear

Lots of people wrote in letters of support at various times, but you're right, it was hundreds of people rather than thousands. It's not in people's nature to actively go out to support something, and I suppose most people assumed it would pass. Also, it was voted on 3 times by Fingal County Council, and passed easily each time.

I understand all the points you make, and if it does pass, the developers will be very wealthy I agree, and I know it may not be the amazing facility that we hope for due to hotel and pool management. HOWEVER.... housing estates go up all the time, often with hundreds of houses (e.g. Barnageera Cove and BallyGossan Park), offering nothing back to the community. This proposal I think is quite unique because in return for just 24 houses, the community gets:
- a hotel
- a pool and leisure centre
- and extra 2km added to the coastal walkway
- 2 playing pitches for under 10's
- the finest eco housing in Europe brought into Ireland for the first time
- up to 80 jobs created locally

To be honest I've never come across an estate anywhere that has as much payback as this one. Perhaps I'm naive, but calculating the developers' profit is not a good enough reason for anyone not to support it, and worrying about who might take over the hotel is not a good enough reason to not support it. Some day that land is going to be developed anyway, whether next year or in ten years time. In my opinion, this is a very good deal for the town.

tvr

pinkbear wrote: »

Some day that land is going to be developed anyway, whether next year or in ten years time. In my opinion, this is a very good deal for the town.

In my opinion, it won't be. It is just not the right location. That is why we have a planning process.

If the developers feel so passionately about it, then appeal the BP decision to High Court for review but I can see them failing with that as well.

I am assuming that is why they haven't done so.

Dizzyblonde

tvr your photo isn't showing. Maybe try uploading it with Postimage?

Wishbone Ash

pinkbear wrote: »

....- The Bord says that "Hotels should be located in towns"...


... if hotels in the town was a priority, why was the Pier House allowed to be converted from a hotel to a private dwelling?

Saying hotels should be located in towns is not the same as saying a town should have a hotel. In other words, if a hotel is to be built, it must be in a town but it doesn't mean the town needs a hotel.

LeoB

pinkbear wrote: »

Lots of people wrote in letters of support at various times, but you're right, it was hundreds of people rather than thousands. It's not in people's nature to actively go out to support something, and I suppose most people assumed it would pass. Also, it was voted on 3 times by Fingal County Council, and passed easily each time.

I understand all the points you make, and if it does pass, the developers will be very wealthy I agree, and I know it may not be the amazing facility that we hope for due to hotel and pool management. HOWEVER.... housing estates go up all the time, often with hundreds of houses (e.g. Barnageera Cove and BallyGossan Park), offering nothing back to the community. This proposal I think is quite unique because in return for just 24 houses, the community gets:
- a hotel
- a pool and leisure centre
- and extra 2km added to the coastal walkway
- 2 playing pitches for under 10's
- the finest eco housing in Europe brought into Ireland for the first time
- up to 80 jobs created locally

To be honest I've never come across an estate anywhere that has as much payback as this one. Perhaps I'm naive, but calculating the developers' profit is not a good enough reason for anyone not to support it, and worrying about who might take over the hotel is not a good enough reason to not support it. Some day that land is going to be developed anyway, whether next year or in ten years time. In my opinion, this is a very good deal for the town.

It is the location that is the problem not the development itself. I spoke to a few in Skerries yesterday and they were opposed to the location. The walkway is there anyway and part of an overall fingal coastal walkway.
To say Skerries is getting big payback is not really accurate until we see how much it will cost to bring our kids a swim, or how many "locals" work there. As I stated before if I was away for a few days with MrsB I would not want to see a heap of kids coming into the pool mid morning or in the afternoon after been out for a day walking/sightseeing. It doesnt sit right with me this type of upmarket hotel providing a pool for the use of the public.

Could the houses and hotel be on different sites? What I mean here is I personally prefer a hotel in parkland setting, ie up past Golf club or up near the Shady lane. The luxury houses could still be built to fund the hotel on a different site. The developer still gets the profit from the houses to fund the hotel development.

Unshelved

There was a large hotel and country club development planned for the Shady Lane / Milverton area some time ago - with Treasury Holdings. The recession got in the way and I've no idea where it stands now - https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/treasury-to-press-ahead-with-its-skerries-project-26677574.html

shesty

Probably with NAMA.In that black hole :-)

Hamilton Hiller

Milverton site was massive 427 acres . This was broken down into several lots and sold off . I know a farmer from the midlands bought out some of the land , Donnelly fruit and veg were rumoured to have bought another parcel of land . There was also a large cultivation of "herb" been grown in large farm outbuildings over past Milverton school .