FTP and cycle racing.

tuxy

I'm new to all this, I've only done some club races but will be racing a4 this year so figured I'd throw my numbers in.
72kg 299 watt ftp, so 4.15 watt kg. I'll have no trouble sticking with the bunch but I expect my tactics and sprint will take some time to develop.
I have good endurance but seriously need to work on short term power for sprints.

Macy0161

dahat wrote: »

My FTP is done via virtual calculating from a turbo with Traineroad but I'm hoping to get access to a watt bike somewhere to get an accurate measure.

Is a Wattbike considered more accurate? I've been going between wattbikes in the gym and my home turbo muin's virtual power (the speed cadence sensor sends "power" to trainerroad, rather than it being trainerroads virtual power) and haven't noticed a whole lot of difference hitting the power targets, doing same work outs.

joey100

@Macy

I've used trainer road with an elite muin and then moved to a power meter. Very little difference, think there might have been 6/7 watts. Definitely less than 10. I think the direct mount trainers are easier for them to work out the power output than some of the variable resistance ones you put against the wheel. It was the same for me with a lemond revolution.

Beasty

Macy0161 wrote: »

Is a Wattbike considered more accurate? I've been going between wattbikes in the gym and my home turbo muin's virtual power (the speed cadence sensor sends "power" to trainerroad, rather than it being trainerroads virtual power) and haven't noticed a whole lot of difference hitting the power targets, doing same work outs.

Wattbikes and SRMs are considered the most accurate. I've both as well as a P2M and Quarqs and am not noticing too significant a difference. Not used the P2M much but that's partly because I'm not as confident with that as I am with the others. Only use the Garmin when I'm on a temporary bike (it's currently lent out). Also have a PT but that hardly gets used at all nowadays

Macy0161

That's good to know - I was happy enough with the logic as once it was consistent the actual power wasn't that important, but now I'm switching between turbo and wattbike, it's good to know they're close enough.

dahat

tuxy wrote: »

I'm new to all this, I've only done some club races but will be racing a4 this year so figured I'd throw my numbers in.
72kg 299 watt ftp, so 4.15 watt kg. I'll have no trouble sticking with the bunch but I expect my tactics and sprint will take some time to develop.
I have good endurance but seriously need to work on short term power for sprints.

More impressive figures and really does bring to reality the task ahead of me this racing season.
Guess a respectable showing will be all.o can expect if lads are hitting 270 plus FTP and substantially less bodyweight.

tuxy

Yeah I'm very happy with how training is going consistency over the winter has been key. But I really have no sprint. I will probably drag bigger guys to the line and they beat me on sprint. Unfortunately I don't see anyone want to work with me on break away at A4 level.

Inquitus

tuxy wrote: »

Yeah I'm very happy with how training is going consistency over the winter has been key. But I really have no sprint. I will probably drag bigger guys to the line and they beat me on sprint. Unfortunately I don't see anyone want to work with me on break away at A4 level.

Work on your Sprint, do low cadence repeats up a 4 minute hill, sprinkle sprints from a slow speed in the 53/12 into your current spins and commutes. Sprinting is very trainable, it would seem you need to stop worrying about FTP and Endurance and focus the next few weeks before the season kicks off on you Sprint.

dahat

tuxy wrote: »

Yeah I'm very happy with how training is going consistency over the winter has been key. But I really have no sprint. I will probably drag bigger guys to the line and they beat me on sprint. Unfortunately I don't see anyone want to work with me on break away at A4 level.

All you need is too get away once really but they tell me that breakaways tend to fail at A4 level.

fat bloke

dahat wrote: »

All you need is too get away once really but they tell me that breakaways tend to fail at A4 level.

There's nothing the A4's love better than chasing stuff down.

dragratchet

Im been in a good few a4 races where the break went and held on.... you need to really get some distance up the road to cast the seed of doubt in their collective minds that there's no chance of catching the break so they all may as well relax and sprint for the minor places.

dahat

I'd only love to get in a breakaway myself and will try in one race if I can get someone with me but I have been told it's pointless as as fatbloke said they love chasing people down.

dragratchet

the a4 bunch does love chasing people down but if you can get the lads who fuel the chase to fuel the break then its more than likely to stay away. see whose bringing back the break regularly, talk to em, encourage them to get up the road with you.

sullzz

I found last year that its not so much as they love to chase people down , its more that lads don't know how to ride in a break , if you are lucky enough to get a few to jump with you they ride each other into the ground then blow up and get caught , lads tend to forget that you only need to ride hard for 1 min then it's a case of calming down and riding at the same pace as the bunch

dahat

dragratchet wrote: »

the a4 bunch does love chasing people down but if you can get the lads who fuel the chase to fuel the break then its more than likely to stay away. see whose bringing back the break regularly, talk to em, encourage them to get up the road with you.

As I'll be a novice I'll see how it goes but I have tried to get lads up the road before in minor club races but ended up going on my own most times. Stayed away once but there was only 5/6km left.

It will be interesting for sure in the early weeks.

dragratchet

Wexford 2day a few years back a group of about 12 of us got away on a short climb and it looked like curtains for the bunch as we were all relatively strong and pulling on the front all day. course the moment the group sensed that this could be the winning break, half the members sat on and wouldnt contribute wanting to save something for the reduced bunch sprint. between shouting at each other and a small number of riders flogging themselves on the front the break got reeled back in. so yeah, as above.

Lumen

dragratchet wrote: »

Wexford 2day a few years back a group of about 12 of us got away on a short climb and it looked like curtains for the bunch as we were all relatively strong and pulling on the front all day. course the moment the group sensed that this could be the winning break, half the members sat on and wouldnt contribute wanting to save something for the reduced bunch sprint. between shouting at each other and a small number of riders flogging themselves on the front the break got reeled back in. so yeah, as above.

That's not unique to A4, I see it all the time on Eurosport. :pac:

The only fair racing is time trialling. That's why it's so boring.

Bambaata

dragratchet wrote: »

Wexford 2day a few years back a group of about 12 of us got away on a short climb and it looked like curtains for the bunch as we were all relatively strong and pulling on the front all day. course the moment the group sensed that this could be the winning break, half the members sat on and wouldnt contribute wanting to save something for the reduced bunch sprint. between shouting at each other and a small number of riders flogging themselves on the front the break got reeled back in. so yeah, as above.

That 2014? If so I'm was one of the few flogging ourselves! Those sharp short climbs are a killer for the heavier guys!! I was about 77kg/320 then and managed to win the TT and OA in the A4 so at 67kg and 370 the a1s is where this chap should be and near challenging for wins!!! If I managed to get to 370 at 77 I'd be confident of doing well at A1. I've got to a2 last year at 78kg/340

Arthurdaly

I'd be taking most of the numbers quoted in here with a pinch of salt unless there is an huge amount of untapped potential lurking in A4.

A friend reckons he has FTP of 330 @ 75kg and he regularly gets dropped when the hammer goes down on the club racing spins. I questioned his FTP but he was having none of it, he still quotes his FTP as 330. I think he has the latest Fisher Price power meter and does the 3 min testing protocol to estimate.

Lumen

Maybe the 370W is the power at the end of a ramp test.

Inquitus

Arthurdaly wrote: »

I'd be taking most of the numbers quoted in here with a pinch of salt unless there is an huge amount of untapped potential lurking in A4.

A friend reckons he has FTP of 330 @ 75kg and he regularly gets dropped when the hammer goes down on the club racing spins. I questioned his FTP but he was having none of it, he still quotes his FTP as 330. I think he has the latest Fisher Price power meter and does the 3 min testing protocol to estimate.

Yep 330W at 75kgs would be ample enough to ride away from the A4 Bunch on your own with a lap or two to go and win by minutes.

Inquitus

370W at 67kgs would be enough to get round the Rás at the sharp end, and would make very short work of A4 and A3.

Kaisr Sose

Inquitus wrote: »

370W at 67kgs would be enough to get round the Rás at the sharp end, and would make very short work of A4 and A3.

For sure. In my day the regular winners of Cat A were mid 300's+. Testing was done in lab (Trinity mainly) so the results were scientific/accurate and consistent.

happyhappy

dragratchet wrote: »

Im been in a good few a4 races where the break went and held on.... you need to really get some distance up the road to cast the seed of doubt in their collective minds that there's no chance of catching the break so they all may as well relax and sprint for the minor places.

Agree with this. Many of these 'breaks' that I see are 2 or 3 riders dangling 200 metres ahead of the bunch for 2 or 3 laps. The natural surge in the last lap or 10k picks them off without a concerted 'chase' effort.

I saw 2 lads from the same club attacking off the line on a pan flat race, which was obviously a plan of theirs and then see later on strava that they wondered why they get caught on the second lap, but 'gave it a shot'. Everyone knew they were wasting their time.

Every race is different. Sometimes a break at A4 will work, sometimes it won't. But if you are going to go, think about it and look at what's happening around you and go for it and be prepared to work you b****x of for the rest of the race.

In fact the most common 'break' that I've seen is the bunch kind of splitting in last 5k and 40ish of the 80-100 bunch left in contention. Strava flyby is a good way of seeing this happen. It is here that the op's FTP will help him.

So the season is just around the corner and I can't wait, I've points from last year and like everyone else am aiming for da magic 15 in da first few months. A3........now that will be a learning curve about getting in a break!! :)

nailik

tuxy wrote: »

Yeah I'm very happy with how training is going consistency over the winter has been key. But I really have no sprint. I will probably drag bigger guys to the line and they beat me on sprint. Unfortunately I don't see anyone want to work with me on break away at A4 level.

I will!

dahat

As a first season novice based in Tipperary/Limerick/Waterford area anyone recommend suitable starting points for me?

I had intended doing Ras Limni ( experience) Carrick Paddy's Day ( experience ) with Dunggarvan and Fermoy, any other races that I may be missing? Trying to keep travelling local ish at first.

harringtonp

Arthurdaly wrote: »

I'd be taking most of the numbers quoted in here with a pinch of salt unless there is an huge amount of untapped potential lurking in A4.

A friend reckons he has FTP of 330 @ 75kg and he regularly gets dropped when the hammer goes down on the club racing spins. I questioned his FTP but he was having none of it, he still quotes his FTP as 330. I think he has the latest Fisher Price power meter and does the 3 min testing protocol to estimate.

Suspect you are right here even though you'll usually get 1 or 2 each year who just time trial away on their own and are out of the category in a flash.

Big figures quoted here, 290w@78kg enables me to generally survive quite well in A3 and get off the front at times but never get in the points.

Raymzor

harringtonp wrote: »

Suspect you are right here even though you'll usually get 1 or 2 each year who just time trial away on their own and are out of the category in a flash.

Big figures quoted here, 290w@78kg enables me to generally survive quite well in A3 and get off the front at times but never get in the points.

Thanks for your post. i got to A3 at end of last year.
what was ur 5 min and 1 min power tests last year?
i got out of A4 with 1, 5, 20min (FTP) 6.6,4.6, 3.7 or 488w, 340w, 270w at 74kg

Lumen

Raymzor wrote: »

i got out of A4 with 1, 5, 20min (FTP) 6.6,4.6, 3.7 or 488w, 340w, 270w at 74kg

FTP is power for an hour not 20 mins.

dahat

Lumen wrote: »

FTP is power for an hour not 20 mins.

Edit: I'll assume you know full well what an FTP test is.