FTP and cycle racing.

Sarz91

Gekko1 wrote: »

So by the half way mark it would have been mid-day. On a Sunday. On what seemed to have been pretty narrow roads with 100+ riders. race organisers are asking for trouble. Why not start a race 8/9am with quieter roads to potentially negate some risk?

I have had my say on riders having to cop on in relation to 'white lining' earlier in the thread so maybe earlier start times as a suggestion. It might reduce the entries a bit. I personally wouldn't have an issue travelling within a 50-60 mile radius for an early race start. Might even sort out who really wants to race...

I personally think there are just too few races. Lived in the lake District for close to 3 years in a small town outside of Lancaster which isn't all that big itself. You had a crit on the Tuesday pretty much the whole season and then a 10 mile TT on most Thursdays with a road race most weekends in the local vicinity.

If you look at the race calendar for road you're lucky to get 2 races in Leinster over the weekend with every other week there being a crit in mondello.

Lancaster had a pretty tiny population in comparison with the whole of Leinster yet they hold far more events and you get far fewer numbers turning up. CAT 4 racing at salt ayre generally saw about 20-25 riders for the weekday crit and the road race at the weekend saw maybe 50 tops if you were lucky. Entry fee was a bit higher than €15.

big mce

I think the a4 distances should be the same as a3. That would sort it out. Its too easy to just rock up and do a 1.5hr race. Make it harder.

dahat

big mce wrote: »

I think the a4 distances should be the same as a3. That would sort it out. Its too easy to just rock up and do a 1.5hr race. Make it harder.

This I agree with especially in the second half of the season. If you want your race to be a sprinters race then extend it beyond 50km if it's flat or near flat.

Sarz91

dahat wrote: »

This I agree with especially in the second half of the season. If you want your race to be a sprinters race then extend it beyond 50km if it's flat or near flat.

I don't know that distance is a massive thing. It's as handy to sit in for 1.5 hours as it is for 2.5 hours. Rás naomh finian was 78 or so km of just pretty much flat. I think I averaged about 170 watts for the entire race.

Dublin wheelers open race at the beginning of the season was just over 50km and one of the hardest races I've done. Attack after attack for the entire duration. Crash at the back in the first few kms took a few out but the field was still relatively large. The pace was unrelenting and more than half of the group dropped off due to it. There was only a handful of riders coming into the final.

Now in saying that a lot of us got out of A4 within a few races but there are plenty of lads strong enough on here to weed out those sitting in in an A4 bunch.

What A4s are going to Shannonside? If there are a few of you why not work together to get away or at least thin the field.

dahat

Sarz91 wrote: »

I don't know that distance is a massive thing. It's as handy to sit in for 1.5 hours as it is for 2.5 hours. Rás naomh finian was 78 or so km of just pretty much flat. I think I averaged about 170 watts for the entire race.

Dublin wheelers open race at the beginning of the season was just over 50km and one of the hardest races I've done. Attack after attack for the entire duration. Crash at the back in the first few kms took a few out but the field was still relatively large. The pace was unrelenting and more than half of the group dropped off due to it. There was only a handful of riders coming into the final.

Now in saying that a lot of us got out of A4 within a few races but there are plenty of lads strong enough on here to weed out those sitting in in an A4 bunch.

What A4s are going to Shannonside? If there are a few of you why not work together to get away or at least thin the field.

Hopefully not many decent ones!!!

I'm going in to sit in and see can I grab a place late on, agressive tactics are killing me early on on races, sitting on or making the pace is doing me no favours.
Id consider a later break but not going full pelt early doors.

Stevieg2009

Sarz91 wrote: »

I don't know that distance is a massive thing. It's as handy to sit in for 1.5 hours as it is for 2.5 hours. Rás naomh finian was 78 or so km of just pretty much flat. I think I averaged about 170 watts for the entire race.

Dublin wheelers open race at the beginning of the season was just over 50km and one of the hardest races I've done. Attack after attack for the entire duration. Crash at the back in the first few kms took a few out but the field was still relatively large. The pace was unrelenting and more than half of the group dropped off due to it. There was only a handful of riders coming into the final.

Now in saying that a lot of us got out of A4 within a few races but there are plenty of lads strong enough on here to weed out those sitting in in an A4 bunch.

What A4s are going to Shannonside? If there are a few of you why not work together to get away or at least thin the field.

That was a serious field in Summerhill that day most of them lads have gone on to bigger better things including A1

sullzz

dahat wrote: »

I'm going in to sit in and see can I grab a place late on

Sure isnt that a huge part of the problem with the A4 races .

JK.BMC

dahat wrote: »

Hopefully not many decent ones!!!

I'm going in to sit in and see can I grab a place late on, agressive tactics are killing me early on on races, sitting on or making the pace is doing me no favours.
Id consider a later break but not going full pelt early doors.

Maybe you should try this. Best of luck avoiding the landmines in the final kms
I know guys who make absolutely no effort to appear at the front apart from the final kms and have made a fine career out of doing so. Marcel Kittel to name just one...

Bambaata

dahat wrote: »

Hopefully not many decent ones!!!

I'm going in to sit in and see can I grab a place late on, agressive tactics are killing me early on on races, sitting on or making the pace is doing me no favours.
Id consider a later break but not going full pelt early doors.

Go from the gun, been working a lot better for me the past few races than being anxious about ability and sitting at the back. Safer too. If you blow up you blow up. A few races doing that and you'll be flying. If a few get away make sure everyone isn't drilling it or itll fail. Pace needs to drop to manageable level once established but with everyone still working. If a few stop working cos they just cant manage it then you need to lose them, i think a lot make the mistake of surging when coming to the front, it kills steady momentum and slowly destroys everyone. As soon as you hit the front you should be dropping effort slightly to let the next lad take it on and so on. Its a while since i was A4 but from memory most breaks i was in was hitting it waaaay to hard

Everyone is looking at a late break, it there isnt something like a decent climb to naturally have a chance to get away, and most course dont, then its not likely to work whereas if from the gun most wont be confident enough to go with it and it might just slip off.

wirelessdude01

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

They are:

That is pure and utter madness specially when you have a large field as it is. Only adds to the crazyness of A4 racing. I raced alot up north this year and in A3 didn't see one crash. I put it down to higher regard for rider safety. Numbers were capped as low as 60 depending on the course. A4 field was generally capped 10 lower than A3. Assume this was to do with increased risk of crashing due to rider capabilities. This is dictated to the club by the PSNI based on the safety statement submitted by the organising club.

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

Sure isnt that a huge part of the problem with the A4 races .

Yep but I'm after a few points rather than some fun this weekend. I'd like to end on 10pts for the season.

dahat

JK.BMC wrote: »

Maybe you should try this. Best of luck avoiding the landmines in the final kms
I know guys who make absolutely no effort to appear at the front apart from the final kms and have made a fine career out of doing so. Marcel Kittel to name just one...

I did plenty work last race, eased off and had a stunning position for the bunch Sprint for places but fooked it up by jumping off. I have learned from that and costyself 4th place for sure as I'd have won the bunch gallop.

Chumpski

I rode the A4 (combined) in Robinstown Saturday night. Nice course and A3/A4 started together with the A1/A2 catching us after 3 laps. Was a real good race, enjoyed it, no craziness in the bunch. Think about maybe 70 riders in total with a lot of experience I guess too for a lot of the guys.

Edit: must mention also I've been out of the game for a while. I caught the underage racing beforehand and I noticed the great community that is Irish cycling with all the parents cheering on their kids. Missed this and was good to see

CramCycle

Chumpski wrote: »

Edit: must mention also I've been out of the game for a while. I caught the underage racing beforehand and I noticed the great community that is Irish cycling with all the parents cheering on their kids. Missed this and was good to see

It is great when you get a good crowd at the line. Over in Corkagh park the other night and having a good crowd at the finish line really makes a difference.

equivariant

CramCycle wrote: »

I don't think it's a money thing, more that if you turn away riders there is a general belief that a lot will never return,

That is understandable from organisers if races are struggling to get sufficient numbers, but it seems that is not the case.

Also, is a cultural thing. People would complain the first time they were turned away, but it would very quickly become accepted that if you turn up on the day you have no guarantees. Right now everyone knows that you will never be turned away from an a4 race if you show up with 15 euro on the day, no matter what is posted on facebook. It would only take a few weeks of enforcement to change that. Given that lots of people are being hurt it might be a reasonable and relatively easy step to take.

Miklos

It would hardly be very difficult in this day and age to make every A4 event pre-reg only would it?

Derrydingle

Miklos wrote:

It would hardly be very difficult in this day and age to make every A4 event pre-reg only would it?

This season so far only 3 of the races I have done where pre reg. One of them was the mullingar gp last Sunday which turned out to be pre reg and sign on the day for some odd reason. I too can't see why all races are not pre reg and limited to 80 .

RobFowl

Pre registration is something we are not used to in Irish cycling. The culture of turning up on the day is deeply ingrained and in many ways is a positive thing.
That said constructive comments and suggestions are always welcome.
I hope to see them at the CI agm.....

CramCycle

RobFowl wrote: »

I hope to see them at the CI agm.....

This came up at the AGM a few years ago. Pre reg was almost unheard of down south although was basically mandatory in the North.

The arguments against were overwhelming and to be honest, at the time I fully agreed. It basically would have meant I could no longer race due to my work and family commitments.

While these same restraints no longer apply to me, it would be unfair of me to switch my view based on what suits me now.

Restricted numbers I can get behind, with only two ways I can see this working, either the capability of a club to split races on the day ie once it hits 80, the race is split 50:50. I cannot see many instances where we will surpass 160, although this said, at the AGM back then, the thinking was that numbers as high as they are now would be unlikely to happen often if at all. The other is fair warning and maybe some sort of buffering system from CI should it be clear that restrictions limited participation. It won't happen near population centers but Maybe splitting the race is not logistically possible. But if I knew heading off to a race that it was likely to be full when I was leaving or when I was half way there, it would certainly stem the disappointment.

07Lapierre

CramCycle wrote: »

This came up at the AGM a few years ago. Pre reg was almost unheard of down south although was basically mandatory in the North.

The arguments against were overwhelming and to be honest, at the time I fully agreed. It basically would have meant I could no longer race due to my work and family commitments.

While these same restraints no longer apply to me, it would be unfair of me to switch my view based on what suits me now.

Restricted numbers I can get behind, with only two ways I can see this working, either the capability of a club to split races on the day ie once it hits 80, the race is split 50:50. I cannot see many instances where we will surpass 160, although this said, at the AGM back then, the thinking was that numbers as high as they are now would be unlikely to happen often if at all. The other is fair warning and maybe some sort of buffering system from CI should it be clear that restrictions limited participation. It won't happen near population centers but Maybe splitting the race is not logistically possible. But if I knew heading off to a race that it was likely to be full when I was leaving or when I was half way there, it would certainly stem the disappointment.

Restricted numbers per race is the obvious solution. It's better if this is enforced by the clubs before it is forced on them by CI and/or the Gardai!

As for disappointment for those not allowed to race.... that'll arrive earlier for the next race!

Chips Lovell

Mandatory pre-registration was voted down at the 2013 AGM.

I can't see capped field sizes passing at an AGM. Most of the clubs who send delegates promote their own races and wouldn't want to limit numbers since most races either lose money or barely break even.

I wouldn't support it myself both for these reasons and due to the fact that I think the accidents are caused by idiotic riding and not numbers.

Gekko1

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Mandatory pre-registration was voted down at the 2013 AGM.

I can't see capped field sizes passing at an AGM. Most of the clubs who send delegates promote their own races and wouldn't want to limit numbers since most races either lose money or barely break even.

I wouldn't support it myself both for these reasons and due to the fact that I think the accidents are caused by idiotic riding and not numbers.

Or a large number of idiots

Pre-reg works up North & it is of no coincidence that the races are that bit safer. You still get idiots, just not a larger number of them.

brocbrocach

Gekko1 wrote: »

Or a large number of idiots

Pre-reg works up North & it is of no coincidence that the races are that bit safer. You still get idiots, just not a larger number of them.

If it's an issue that the clubs are worried about not breaking even, dare it be said that the fee be upped?
Add a fiver on to €15 and you could trim the field by a quarter with no loss to the club, plus maybe making a small bit extra to set towards signage etc. That might even encourage more clubs to set up races which would take up the extra numbers denied entry.
I'm sure no-one wants to pay extra but I'd be surprised if anyone racing spent less than a good few hundred on bike, wheels, nutrition, etc, never mind petrol to get to races.

wirelessdude01

RobFowl wrote: »

Pre registration is something we are not used to in Irish cycling. The culture of turning up on the day is deeply ingrained and in many ways is a positive thing.
That said constructive comments and suggestions are always welcome.
I hope to see them at the CI agm.....

Very much the done thing in Ulster races as insisted by the PSNI.

CramCycle

equivariant wrote: »

That is understandable from organisers if races are struggling to get sufficient numbers, but it seems that is not the case.

Probably not. I remember the discussion at the AGM. While we may not like to admit it, there are quite a few riders who only know if making it is possible very close to the day. There are also quite a few who do not really use computers, getting rarer by the day but it still happens. Pre entry would suit me now but a few years ago it would have meant I could never entered a race.

I'd be happy enough if they advertised numbers before hand, so that before I left in the morning I knew there were X amount of places left. I could even pull in half way to check. Anything to far away I either would not enter or drive down the night before. This is not fair for everyone though. It works for me though as I only go to races that are within commutable distance. So if it si not in Wexford, Wicklow or Dublin, I won't be there. This will not work for people in the back end of Cork who have a few hours drive just for a local race.

This said pre entry seems to work really well up north with several club members commenting on the well run races.

Maybe pre entry could just stay open until the morning of an event? Organisers will know a week or so in advance if numbers are sufficient and if unplanned people like me suddenly are available last minute, I could log in before 8am and book. Close pre entry a few hours before sign on opens.

CramCycle

brocbrocach wrote: »

If it's an issue that the clubs are worried about not breaking even, dare it be said that the fee be upped?

They could also just quit giving prize money to A4 and A3 racing.

dahat

Forecast for Athlone Saturday(Shannonside gp) looks poor so hopefully that will shake off a few lads.

Sarz91

A little off topic but probably the place to put it. Anyone else struggle to get both numbers on their jersey? Ive always had an issue with it but only just though to ask now. I find the numbers far too big and cumbersome. They either come pretty far around my side or they come really high up my back making it difficult to eat to any sort of food during a race.

I'm not the smallest person 177cm and 70kgs in the world. Is there anyway to wear a single number or have smaller numbers issued?

CramCycle

Sarz91 wrote: »

I'm not the smallest person 177cm and 70kgs in the world. Is there anyway to wear a single number or have smaller numbers issued?

Cut the numbers and the comms will be onto you ASAP Not much you can do other than strategically placing pins so that they are less in the way, or putting your food elsewhere.

wirelessdude01

Sarz91 wrote: »

A little off topic but probably the place to put it. Anyone else struggle to get both numbers on their jersey? Ive always had an issue with it but only just though to ask now. I find the numbers far too big and cumbersome. They either come pretty far around my side or they come really high up my back making it difficult to eat to any sort of food during a race.

I'm not the smallest person 177cm and 70kgs in the world. Is there anyway to wear a single number or have smaller numbers issued?

Ahh come on. Every rider in the country can eat during a race. Just pin the numbers correctly so that you can still access your pockets.