FTP and cycle racing.

StevieGriff

CramCycle wrote: »

Cut the numbers and the comms will be onto you ASAP Not much you can do other than strategically placing pins so that they are less in the way, or putting your food elsewhere.

Cutting a CM or so off each side makes them more manageable and no one will be any the wiser.

Seadin

CramCycle wrote: »

They could also just quit giving prize money to A4 and A3 racing.

I disagree.

It gives no motive for anyone in these race categories to race if the prize money is cut. Alot of these riders are putting in big efforts to train and compete at these levels even if its just a hobby. They are also paying for their race licence and fee to race. They should be entitled for prize money especially when finishing in the placings. Just because they aren't the best riders shouldn't mean they are excluded from the prize money. Just my opinion.

dahat

Sarz91 wrote: »

A little off topic but probably the place to put it. Anyone else struggle to get both numbers on their jersey? Ive always had an issue with it but only just though to ask now. I find the numbers far too big and cumbersome. They either come pretty far around my side or they come really high up my back making it difficult to eat to any sort of food during a race.

I'm not the smallest person 177cm and 70kgs in the world. Is there anyway to wear a single number or have smaller numbers issued?

I have trimmed mine ever so slightly to make access to the pockets easier.
I have started using gels with the raw fruit bars in Aldi, just have the bars open before a race helps.

Sarz91

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ahh come on. Every rider in the country can eat during a race. Just pin the numbers correctly so that you can still access your pockets.

I don't remember saying it was impossible I just think it's far more awkward than needs be.

CramCycle

Seadin wrote: »

I disagree.

It gives no motive for anyone in these race categories to race if the prize money is cut. Alot of these riders are putting in big efforts to train and compete at these levels even if its just a hobby. They are also paying for their race licence and fee to race. They should be entitled for prize money especially when finishing in the placings. Just because they aren't the best riders shouldn't mean they are excluded from the prize money. Just my opinion.

You would be the first person I have heard saying that prize money in A4 is important. I know I said A3 as well, and your argument may hold some merit (although I don't think so) there but at A4, nope, just doesn't make sense.

if it is "just a hobby" then it is no different than any other hobby, you shouldn't need to get a payday. Every time this comes up, the overwhelming opinion is that the majority (as far as I can tell, and I could be wrong) would be happy with a token medal or trophy that cost less than their race entry fee.

If they are spending so much time training and pushing in A4 that they need prize money, then one of two things should happen. They will get upgraded very quickly to a place where there is prize money or should they not, then maybe reassess how much time they are dedicating to it.

Should I ever win a race, a ****ty little medal (about 5euro from a GAA shop) with a picture of a bike and where someone has used a set of punches to write 1st A4 and whatever year it was, will be something that I will treasure forever. If I get a bit of cash, it will drift into the ether never to be seen again.

I say this as someone who is constantly cash strapped and can barely afford to go racing.

Sarz91

CramCycle wrote: »

SNIP.

I'd agree completely with this. I've placed a few times this season and have made up some excuse as to why I have to leave early so as I don't have to collect the money. I'm pretty strapped and as with Cram I'd love to race 3 times a week but can't afford it but Id rather the club organising the event keep the money so that maybe next year they can afford to reduce the numbers. Prizes for the first 8 in both A3 and A4 is a lot and could easily contribute to reducing the field size while the organising club still breaks even.

RobFowl

Seadin wrote: »

Just because they aren't the best riders shouldn't mean they are excluded from the prize money. Just my opinion.

Wow

Just Wow

buffalo

Seadin wrote: »

I disagree.

It gives no motive for anyone in these race categories to race if the prize money is cut. Alot of these riders are putting in big efforts to train and compete at these levels even if its just a hobby. They are also paying for their race licence and fee to race. They should be entitled for prize money especially when finishing in the placings. Just because they aren't the best riders shouldn't mean they are excluded from the prize money. Just my opinion.

You think A4 would be empty if there were no cash prizes? Really?

My most memorable A4 prize was a 3rd place trophy, which is still on display several years later (thanks wav1!). The cash is nice, but if it was replaced by medals, trophies or jerseys at every level I'd still race. Nobody is racing in Ireland for the money, except perhaps the lads at the very high end - but even then they have sponsors.

07Lapierre

Just curious...in A4 races...How much "Prize Money" are we talking about?

dahat

07Lapierre wrote: »

Just curious...in A4 races...How much "Prize Money" are we talking about?

I got €50 for 4th in Fermoy, I'm unsure as to what winners and other places get.

RobFowl

I got a nice crystal set of latte cups in Kilmessan a couple of years ago (for 4th).
Still in press when any cash would have been long gone.

Sarz91

dahat wrote: »

I got €50 for 4th in Fermoy, I'm unsure as to what winners and other places get.

For both 2nd places I've got this year I was told it was €70.

dahat

I'm still sickened about the Munster Medal o lost on the line this year, it would have been a cracking medal to win.

RayCun

wow, from an outsider's perspective this seems ... unsustainable

Races take a fair amount of work to organise. The A4 race expects a prize fund of 2-300 euro. Race entry (on the day!) is 15 euro. Organisers are afraid to set limits on numbers or close entries because people won't come back the next year. A4 is packed because no-one is turned away, and there aren't any alternative races

Weepsie

As fellow outsider, I'd wholly agree with this above. There are possibly a few people turning up for specific races knowing they don't have to work much and hold out for their sprint and get a bit of glory and a bit of cash. Some people are like that. It's apparently rife in golf with people purposely playing badly to keep handicaps high and then hammering lads in tournaments.

Maybe a very small prize, or return of entry fee and medals for top 3 but unless there is a sponsor the clubs are taking on enough work and risk to have to pay out people at the end. Like any other amateur sport, most are doing it out of genuine love of the sport, and to let their competitive streak out. If you're doing it for the money you probably shouldn't be there.

A cash prize might also in someway see people take greater risks or try to bully people more.

---

Should there be some sort of accreditation before you get to even A4 now? You've raced in club leagues, or done track days, or been to corkagh park or similar for a few days training. Some people rock up and can cause chaos and continue to do so. Some are naturals too however, but the people who are good at it, who want to race and are naturally good at it will, or should see no issue with an extra step before being allowed to race.

CramCycle

RayCun wrote: »

wow, from an outsider's perspective this seems ... unsustainable

It is odd if nothing else.

Races take a fair amount of work to organise. The A4 race expects a prize fund of 2-300 euro.

I think prize money at A4 is out if habit. If you announced a small trophy and maybe two small medals for 2nd and 3rd, you would still get a full race. Very jealous of Robs coffee cups.

Race entry (on the day!) is 15 euro. Organisers are afraid to set limits on numbers or close entries because people won't come back the next year.

This was the argument at the AGM a few years ago, although I think the scene has changed dramatically in the last few years that it is unlikely to be a real risk.

A4 is packed because no-one is turned away, and there aren't any alternative races

And you have CI cancelling races in the west because of a silly complaint that in my eyes made no sense.

buffalo

Sarz91 wrote: »

For both 2nd places I've got this year I was told it was €70.

For an A4 race!? They're very generous in Munster, must head down there for a race! :pac:

Chips Lovell

I like cash prizes. Medals and trophies just end up in the attic. At least with cash you can offset some of the cost of racing.

Chips Lovell

buffalo wrote: »

For an A4 race!? They're very generous in Munster, must head down there for a race! :pac:

And get yourself downgraded to A4

buffalo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

And get yourself downgraded to A4

Challenge accepted. I've always wanted a matching collarbone plate on the other side.

buffalo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I like cash prizes. Medals and trophies just end up in the attic. At least with cash you can offset some of the cost of racing.

Hock your trophies in the local pawn shop. Or I'll buy your glory - 50p a medal?

Miklos

From my own viewpoint, I don't really care about winning cash, I want points to get upgraded!

nilhg

To return to FTP.....

For those with power meters and a newish Garmin , this looks like a nice freebie.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/07/xert-rolls-out-free-real-time-ftp-app-on-garmin-devices.html

eeeee

Have no interest in winning money, medals mean more. I look fondly on mine, and treasure them (all track medals though, road us a necessary evil for me).

A bigger issue I'd say if you're going to award prize money is that it should be equal across genders - there's one race which has amongst it's attractions equal prize money, and it's mental that that's not the norm.

That there isn't an accreditation for road racing boggles my mind. I know it's difficult to take responsibility for signing off on someone, but a CI mandated 5 league races minimum before you can be signed off (depending on whether you're safe or not) wouldn't hurt.

Sarz91

buffalo wrote: »

For an A4 race!? They're very generous in Munster, must head down there for a race! :pac:

No that was Leinster.

Sarz91

nilhg wrote: »

To return to FTP.....

For those with power meters and a newish Garmin , this looks like a nice freebie.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/07/xert-rolls-out-free-real-time-ftp-app-on-garmin-devices.html

I've been using xert for a while. Using it I guess is a stretch. I like the idea of MPA (maximal power available) and the idea that they can calculate threshold power from a short intense workout. Honestly, I have to do a bit more reading into it. It seems interesting all the same.

dahat

nilhg wrote: »

To return to FTP.....

For those with power meters and a newish Garmin , this looks like a nice freebie.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/07/xert-rolls-out-free-real-time-ftp-app-on-garmin-devices.html

Installed this last night and used it earlier on while doing Sprint intervals. While the figure was lower as expected I'm curious to see how this works out.
I haven't done a proper ftp in quite a while and use a figure of 280 currently but I'd say I'm pushing 320 but too fat to maximise it.

CramCycle

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I like cash prizes. Medals and trophies just end up in the attic. At least with cash you can offset some of the cost of racing.

But at A4 level, as a begineers catagory in theory, you would have already made that commitment with no expectation of winning any money back. Up in A2 and A1, fair enough but in A4, you take the cost of racing as a loss because for the catagory that it is, while you want to win, you should not be so strong as to guarantee it off the bat.

nee wrote: »

Have no interest in winning money, medals mean more. I look fondly on mine, and treasure them (all track medals though, road us a necessary evil for me).

One track medal, C championship medal, it was glorious, although the photo opp at the presentation made me look a bit like Tim nice but dim from Harry Enfield.

A bigger issue I'd say if you're going to award prize money is that it should be equal across genders - there's one race which has amongst it's attractions equal prize money, and it's mental that that's not the norm.

+1 there, and something I can't see anybody rallying against if it was put forward as a motion.

That there isn't an accreditation for road racing boggles my mind. I know it's difficult to take responsibility for signing off on someone, but a CI mandated 5 league races minimum before you can be signed off (depending on whether you're safe or not) wouldn't hurt.

It is something that needs to be looked at, A4 was fine for this when numbers were smaller. The big problem now is that there maybe a fear of passing the blame. I know plenty of experienced riders who I would not consider particularly skilled. So long as CI did not try and pass the buck if an accident happened, I would think either a mandatory pink slip from the track, or an A4 league in Mondello / Corkagh Park that runs for the first few months of the year. They could then have accreditors from different clubs sign people off as they see fit. A club league could do the same thing.

RayCun

CramCycle wrote: »

It is something that needs to be looked at, A4 was fine for this when numbers were smaller. The big problem now is that there maybe a fear of passing the blame. I know plenty of experienced riders who I would not consider particularly skilled. So long as CI did not try and pass the buck if an accident happened, I would think either a mandatory pink slip from the track, or an A4 league in Mondello / Corkagh Park that runs for the first few months of the year. They could then have accreditors from different clubs sign people off as they see fit. A club league could do the same thing.

It seems like a very roundabout way of doing things.
If there are smaller numbers in a race, it is much safer, isn't it?
So limit it to 50 (say), pre-reg supported so people won't waste their time travelling to full races. Very limited prizes to make the races more economical to host. Knowing the numbers in advance from pre-registration might make it possible to put on a second A4 race, if demand is there?

brocbrocach

CramCycle wrote: »

But at A4 level, as a begineers catagory in theory, you would have already made that commitment with no expectation of winning any money back. Up in A2 and A1, fair enough but in A4, you take the cost of racing as a loss because for the catagory that it is, while you want to win, you should not be so strong as to guarantee it off the bat.
One track medal, C championship medal, it was glorious, although the photo opp at the presentation made me look a bit like Tim nice but dim from Harry Enfield.

+1 there, and something I can't see anybody rallying against if it was put forward as a motion.

It is something that needs to be looked at, A4 was fine for this when numbers were smaller. The big problem now is that there maybe a fear of passing the blame. I know plenty of experienced riders who I would not consider particularly skilled. So long as CI did not try and pass the buck if an accident happened, I would think either a mandatory pink slip from the track, or an A4 league in Mondello / Corkagh Park that runs for the first few months of the year. They could then have accreditors from different clubs sign people off as they see fit. A club league could do the same thing.

Many racers and their clubs are 3 or 4 hours drive from Mondello/Corkagh.