FTP and cycle racing.

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

I still plan to cycle without socks next year

I think your in the wrong forum, try over here :pac:

Macy0161

Also plan to cycle with socks and join a cycling club and dip my toes in with some club racing. It's just (another) long transition...

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

Also plan to cycle with socks and join a cycling club and dip my toes in with some club racing. It's just (another) long transition...

Welcome back

harringtonp

Macy0161 wrote: »

Any reason you're not just going into a base phase? I've taken a few weeks off and am kinda mentally refreshed and ready to go again - I was thinking of just going base-build (both low volume) and then into mid volume base-build-speciality...

Can I answer this , pretty please

If I was rich and didn't have to work and didn't have a family or had one and they were happy to be whisked anywhere in the world with me then I'd be going somewhere like Girona in Spain now. I'd meet with a group of like minded souls (of which there are many there) most mornings and go for a pleasant 3-4 hour Z2 sunny spins with a nice coffee stop. This way I would build a huge base to work off the other side of XMAS and it would be fun too.

However I'm not rich, have a family, live in Ireland all year round and have to work 8.30 to 5 which is when it is bright in the winter. So building a base like this would mean lots of dark lonely riding in sometimes miserable conditions and huge grief at home as they're wondering have you completely lost it and or on your way to the looney bin.

dahat

Macy0161 wrote: »

Any reason you're not just going into a base phase? I've taken a few weeks off and am kinda mentally refreshed and ready to go again - I was thinking of just going base-build (both low volume) and then into mid volume base-build-speciality...

They did cover it on their most recent standard podcast, but didn't think they really answered. I still plan to cycle without socks next year, so was going to mix it up with sweetspot base, general build before going into the triathlon plans....

I've taken 5 days off and that will me.

I am aiming for Tues- Thursday steady and likely base phase with the 3 + hr club spin on Sundays pre Xmas.
I want to be ready to race mid March so a ramp at Xmas is planned with TR being the tool for that ramp.

dahat

harringtonp wrote: »

I cope fine on 6hrs a week.

A 3+ hour Sunday club spin will cover you timewise for races, just try and ride 2hr+ of it mid Z2.

I'd advise for motivational and longevity reasons to keep turbo sessions to an hour and up to xmas focus on SS when on the turbo. After xmas more higher intensity shorter intervals could be introduced

SS is steady state yeah?

Trainer Road plan starting mid-late October with the Sunday spin should see me right till Xmas.

harringtonp

dahat wrote: »

SS is steady state yeah?

Trainer Road plan starting mid-late October with the Sunday spin should see me right till Xmas.

Yes, while mid Z2 base training works well for 2 hrs it doesn't really make sense to be doing it for just 45 minutes on a turbo. So if you're doing 2X20min on a turbo you want something well above mid Z2 but lower than threshold so you're not stressing too much (basically you're trying to push your threshold up from below rather than pull from above). A good tempo level would also be productive IMO.

I've recently seen the term "High Intensity Base Training" coined and this is where I'll be trying to be at for most of my turbo sessions.

mamax

harringtonp wrote: »

However I'm not rich, have a family, live in Ireland all year round and have to work 8.30 to 5 which is when it is bright in the winter. So building a base like this would mean lots of dark lonely riding in sometimes miserable conditions and huge grief at home as they're wondering have you completely lost it and or on your way to the looney bin.

That's a lot of us

Peterx

harringtonp wrote: »

Can I answer this , pretty please

If I was rich and didn't have to work and didn't have a family or had one and they were happy to be whisked anywhere in the world with me then I'd be going somewhere like Girona in Spain now. I'd meet with a group of like minded souls (of which there are many there) most mornings and go for a pleasant 3-4 hour Z2 sunny spins with a nice coffee stop. This way I would build a huge base to work off the other side of XMAS and it would be fun too.

However I'm not rich, have a family, live in Ireland all year round and have to work 8.30 to 5 which is when it is bright in the winter. So building a base like this would mean lots of dark lonely riding in sometimes miserable conditions and huge grief at home as they're wondering have you completely lost it and or on your way to the looney bin.

Good lights, good mudguards, a new found appreciation for rainfall radar and weather forecasting in general, the nra app with the live road temperatures, very good gloves and overshoes (two pairs of both)........and off you go

thekooman

Peterx wrote: »

Good lights, good mudguards, a new found appreciation for rainfall radar and weather forecasting in general, the nra app with the live road temperatures, very good gloves and overshoes (two pairs of both)........and off you go

me every winter... looking the NRA app to see road temps on a weekend morning!

dahat

harringtonp wrote: »

Yes, while mid Z2 base training works well for 2 hrs it doesn't really make sense to be doing it for just 45 minutes on a turbo. So if you're doing 2X20min on a turbo you want something well above mid Z2 but lower than threshold so you're not stressing too much (basically you're trying to push your threshold up from below rather than pull from above). A good tempo level would also be productive IMO.

I've recently seen the term "High Intensity Base Training" coined and this is where I'll be trying to be at for most of my turbo sessions.

So it looks like Sweet Spot Base low volume 1 & 2 till Xmas, 12 weeks total on TrainerRoad. This contains 3 rides PW (3.5hrs) with the Sunday club spin makes 7hrs PW which is totally manageable.
After Xmas I can do General Build low or mid volume with the Sunday Spin again included, this takes 8 weeks and I can see where I am at via ftp tests fory target race in March if I need to introduce higher intensity intervals during this period.

Bambaata

Big mistake to drop intensity completely. Not sure why anyone doing less than 15hrs a week would focus on it. Intensity is needed year round for majority of us not training big hours. If you have 15+ hours a week available then some more "base" might help that thats the minority. I hope to get back to something structured this coming winter/next year as i havent done so in a few years now. Ill be aiming to get a cycle in everyday and at least 2 to 3 quality sessions a week. Mix of 4-8min BG, 20-30 x 1 on/off, 2x20's, 5 x 5's and perhaps my old fav Bill Blacks hour of power (a very satisfying session!)

mossym

Bambaata wrote: »

my old fav Bill Blacks hour of power (a very satisfying session!)

satisfying when it's done:). during, it's more cursing the lad that prescribed it for us both. it is a savage session though, you'll know after one of those if your target levels are right or not

if you finish without falling off the bike your target is too low
if you can't finish it's too high.
if you curse the gods but get it done, you're about right

dahat

There isn't a file I can in some way import to TrainerRoad for the Bill Black session?

crazy_kenny

Found this article online some good information for the time crunched cyclist ��

http://trainright.com/weekend-reading-base-training-winter-will-never-make-fast/

Bambaata

dahat wrote: »

There isn't a file I can in some way import to TrainerRoad for the Bill Black session?

I'm sure there is somewhere. I used to just have it programmed on the Garmin. It's a turbo session too, too hard to replicate on the road

Paul_Mc1988

Anyone here that completed the sweetspot base training on trainerroad from a complete beginner point of view. Done the ftp test at the start and hit 188 watts. Done the first week and it was getting real easy in the sence that i had more to give. Done another ftp test and went up to 208 watts. Second week done and once again its getting too easy.

I found out i can set my own ftp without doing a test and set it to 230 and today my god that was a real workout.. is it normal to have to keep adjusting this up during the 6 week training plan?

sullzz

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Anyone here that completed the sweetspot base training on trainerroad from a complete beginner point of view. Done the ftp test at the start and hit 188 watts. Done the first week and it was getting real easy in the sence that i had more to give. Done another ftp test and went up to 208 watts. Second week done and once again its getting too easy.

I found out i can set my own ftp without doing a test and set it to 230 and today my god that was a real workout.. is it normal to have to keep adjusting this up during the 6 week training plan?

Im not at all familiar with trainerroad , but why not do a proper ftp test ? Guessing your ftp is pointless , what power meter are you using ?

dahat

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Anyone here that completed the sweetspot base training on trainerroad from a complete beginner point of view. Done the ftp test at the start and hit 188 watts. Done the first week and it was getting real easy in the sence that i had more to give. Done another ftp test and went up to 208 watts. Second week done and once again its getting too easy.

I found out i can set my own ftp without doing a test and set it to 230 and today my god that was a real workout.. is it normal to have to keep adjusting this up during the 6 week training plan?

I would question your first ftp result , was it actual power or virtual power? 188 seems very low even for a lad that isn't mad fit.

Macy0161

I wouldn't have got my first ftp test right in terms of pacing it. Actually had a disaster my last one too!

Haven't done sweet spot base yet, but have followed several plans - in the base phase I wouldn't necessarily come out of a session hanging.

And I definitely made the fastest progress my first plan - newbie gains!

tuxy

dahat wrote: »

I would question your first ftp result , was it actual power or virtual power? 188 seems very low even for a lad that isn't mad fit.

I was A4 last season and was well on my way to getting upgraded when I had to stop cycling at the start of June. I'm just back training 3 weeks now and have a power meter, my ftp is 160!

dahat

tuxy wrote: »

I was A4 last year and was well on my way to getting upgraded when I had to stop cycling at the start of June. I'm just back training 3 weeks now and have a power meter, my ftp is 160!

Really? I'm surprised that tbh though I'm by no means an expert.

I'd doubt OP ftp if he used a virtual reading as they can be way off depending on the trainer used. My last one was 225 on VP but was in reality 295 via a Stages PM.

tuxy

dahat wrote: »

Really? I'm surprised that tbh though I'm by no means an expert.

I'd doubt OP ftp if he used a virtual reading as they can be way off depending on the trainer used. My last one was 225 on VP but was in reality 295 via a Stages PM.

I'm 80kg now but 72 when in race shape so I only need about 250 watts to make 3.5 w/kg so you can see how I could do well with a relatively low ftp.

Paul_Mc1988

dahat wrote:

I'd doubt OP ftp if he used a virtual reading as they can be way off depending on the trainer used. My last one was 225 on VP but was in reality 295 via a Stages PM.

Yeah its VP from a tacx vortex. I would have thought that was quite accurate as im only riding just shy of a year so 210 would decent enough. I guess a power meter is the only way to go but not affordable ATM. Ill continue on and see how i fair after 12 weeks. Thanks for the VP vs PM info its good food for thought

@macy0161 yeah as this is the first proper training i'm doing i could see how nubie gains would apply and taper off.

dahat

tuxy wrote: »

I'm 80kg now but 72 when in race shape so I only need about 250 watts to make 3.5 w/kg so you can see how I could do well with a relatively low ftp.

This makes me jealous, I'd have to push so hard to make 3.5w/kg.

tuxy

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Yeah its VP from a tacx vortex. I would have thought that was quite accurate as im only riding just shy of a year so 210 would decent enough. I guess a power meter is the only way to go but not affordable ATM. Ill continue on and see how i fair after 12 weeks. Thanks for the VP vs PM info its good food for thought

It's not a problems if the reading is too high or low once it's consistent to itself then your workouts will be structured correctly.
Do you plan to race next season?

dahat

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Yeah its VP from a tacx vortex. I would have thought that was quite accurate as im only riding just shy of a year so 210 would decent enough. I guess a power meter is the only way to go but not affordable ATM. Ill continue on and see how i fair after 12 weeks. Thanks for the VP vs PM info its good food for thought

@macy0161 yeah as this is the first proper training i'm doing i could see how nubie gains would apply and taper off.

Sweet spot base should have you dying either so adjust up if needs be but only in small increments, 3-5 watts.
TrainerRoad is built around base, build and specialty so it's a long plan, don't rush to blow your legs in base. All that suffering will come in good time.
Use the VP figure but I'd be fairly confident that it's under what your true ftp is. While using VP just use VP results though.

My VP figure came from a Taxc Satori while it did the job it wasn't a high end trainer. The Vortex would be more accurate I'd say so maybe not the 70 watt difference I had.

tuxy

dahat wrote: »

This makes me jealous, I'd have to push so hard to make 3.5w/kg.

I know, I'm lucky, just naturally small frame. But you would fly past me in a sprint and you know what A4 races are like.....

dahat

tuxy wrote: »

I know, I'm lucky, just naturally small frame. But you would fly past me in a sprint and you know what A4 races are like.....

Indeed I do!!!

If you like hills go to De Ronde CC race next year, savage race up, down, up,down,up,down...no recovery....3 laps..it nearly killed me and I did just 1 lap!!!!!

tuxy

dahat wrote: »

Indeed I do!!!

If you like hills go to De Ronde CC race next year, savage race up, down, up,down,up,down...no recovery....3 laps..it nearly killed me and I did just 1 lap!!!!!

I heard, I was sorry I missed it this year. I lived in Cork a few years ago and enjoyed those hills. Racing is still very new to me so hills split things up without me having to do much right tactically.