FTP and cycle racing.

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-10-2017 4:59pm

So i completed an FTP test today using the step protocol. Started at 100 watts for 7.5 minutes after which there was an initial jump of 50 watts for 2.5 minutes and then jumps of 25 watts every 2.5 minutes thereafter.

Final full stage i completed was 300 watts and managed 30 sceonds at 325 watts before i fell off the cliff.

30 seconds / 150 seconds = .2 *25 watts = 5 watts

300 watts + 5 watts = 305 watts = My Map

305 watts * 82.5 = 251.625 = New FTP.

Started at 188 6 weeks ago so an improvement of 63 watts. Started an 8 week build phase this week so onward and upward:)

https://www.strava.com/activities/1244851959

dahat · 24-10-2017 6:18pm

Is that step test in Traineroad or did you input it yourself?
Tried a few times to build a workout but failed miserably.

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-10-2017 6:35pm

dahat wrote:

Is that step test in Traineroad or did you input it yourself? Tried a few times to build a workout but failed miserably.

Had to create the program myself and it only took 5 minutes. Set your FTP to 200 watts in the main trainerroad program first which makes much easier when creating the file.

Smart trainer on ERG mode to hold the watts at the exact point is a must i feel for an accurate result.

jntsnk · 24-10-2017 6:53pm

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

So i completed an FTP test today using the step protocol. Started at 100 watts for 7.5 minutes after which there was an initial jump of 50 watts for 2.5 minutes and then jumps of 25 watts every 2.5 minutes thereafter.

Final full stage i completed was 300 watts and managed 30 sceonds at 325 watts before i fell off the cliff.

30 seconds / 150 seconds = .2 *25 watts = 5 watts

300 watts + 5 watts = 305 watts = My Map

305 watts * 82.5 = 251.625 = New FTP.

Started at 188 6 weeks ago so an improvement of 63 watts. Started an 8 week build phase this week so onward and upward:)

https://www.strava.com/activities/1244851959

Is that an easier way to get FTP and is it more accurate test or is the 20 minute more accurate, I found the 20 min test so boring. Your test would have increases in test watts so that would be more interesting

harringtonp · 24-10-2017 7:16pm

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

So i completed an FTP test today using the step protocol. Started at 100 watts for 7.5 minutes after which there was an initial jump of 50 watts for 2.5 minutes and then jumps of 25 watts every 2.5 minutes thereafter.

Final full stage i completed was 300 watts and managed 30 sceonds at 325 watts before i fell off the cliff.

30 seconds / 150 seconds = .2 *25 watts = 5 watts

300 watts + 5 watts = 305 watts = My Map

305 watts * 82.5 = 251.625 = New FTP.

Started at 188 6 weeks ago so an improvement of 63 watts. Started an 8 week build phase this week so onward and upward:)

https://www.strava.com/activities/1244851959

First time, seeing this used to measure FTP. What's the rational behind it ? Any links ?

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-10-2017 7:17pm

There are research papers on it which seem to imply it is, as with a normal FTP test you may undershoot as your going too easy or on the other hand you may go too hard and fall off a cliff before the end of the test. This is the preferred method used by Dr Stephen lane.

Often he will get an athlete to do this test for a reference and then get them to do a 20 minute FTP and hold the exact watts that his test assertained which prove the theory.

I really enjoyed it as you just go until you pop. At 250 watts i was still sitting pretty. At 275 watts breathing took a jump. At 300 watts the walls started to close in and 30 seconds into 325 i was dead.

Irish Raven · 24-10-2017 7:47pm

Paul_Mc1988 wrote:

There are research papers on it which seem to imply it is, as with a normal FTP test you may undershoot as your going too easy or on the other hand you may go too hard and fall off a cliff before the end of the test. This is the preferred method used by Dr Stephen lane.

Paul_Mc1988 wrote:

Often he will get an athlete to do this test for a reference and then get them to do a 20 minute FTP and hold the exact watts that his test assertained which prove the theory.

Paul_Mc1988 wrote:

I really enjoyed it as you just go until you pop. At 250 watts i was still sitting pretty. At 275 watts breathing took a jump. At 300 watts the walls started to close in and 30 seconds into 325 i was dead.

What software program were you using? Trainerroad?? Looks like a very interesting way of doing an ftp and alot less boring then the standard version!!

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-10-2017 7:52pm

harringtonp wrote:

First time, seeing this used to measure FTP. What's the rational behind it ? Any links ?

Search "Shane miller step test" on YouTube and watch the video. This he has a link to the initial research paper on it and currently Dr lane has a female college doing her thesis using only women as there accuracy is slightly less accurate so the shes seeing whether the protocol csn be tweeked to suit women.

py · 24-10-2017 8:25pm

It's on zwift too afaik.

dahat · 24-10-2017 8:31pm

I'm afraid to an ftp test at this stage after 6 weeks of pure easy riding... November 1st is winter training comeback date...

Paul_Mc1988 · 24-10-2017 8:37pm

py wrote:

It's on zwift too afaik.

https://gplama.blogspot.ie/2016/07/how-to-do-step-test-on-zwift-pb-hptek.html?m=1

Link to how the test can be done on ZWIFT.

Lusk_Doyle · 24-10-2017 9:47pm

dahat wrote: »

I'm afraid to an ftp test at this stage after 6 weeks of pure easy riding... November 1st is winter training comeback date...

You can do a build programme to work up to it. Zwift has it.

dahat · 24-10-2017 9:48pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

You can do a build programme to work up to it. Zwift has it.

Thanks but I need to do one to set my winter training zones on Traineroad, half hoping it's pretty low tbh ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Lusk_Doyle · 25-10-2017 9:42pm

Jaysus, just did an FTP test there on the turbo in the shed. Could nearly have gone swimming afterwards with the pool of sweat below me!

dahat · 25-10-2017 10:04pm

It has been pretty mild last few days which didn't help you.

Lusk_Doyle · 25-10-2017 10:32pm

dahat wrote: »

It has been pretty mild last few days which didn't help you.

Yea. Would love to have done it outdoors but the other half is away so I had to do what I could while the young uns are asleep in bed!

Edit: Result was 242 FTP. First one I've done.

Bambaata · 25-10-2017 10:41pm

Not looking forward to my first of this winter! Plan to do one in about 2-3 weeks after being back on bike about 4-5 weeks. Last test i did i failed to finish!

dahat · 25-10-2017 10:42pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Yea. Would love to have done it outdoors but the other half is away so I had to do what I could while the young uns are asleep in bed!

Edit: Result was 242 FTP. First one I've done.

Re assess every 6 weeks then I think? TrainerRoad plan?

Lusk_Doyle · 25-10-2017 10:50pm

dahat wrote: »

Re assess every 6 weeks then I think? TrainerRoad plan?

Zwift with a tacx neo.

tuxy · 25-10-2017 10:59pm

I've just started doing zwift races. Great workout but probably not the best for this time of year. Even in the lower category it's full effort for the duration of the race.
Back to the training plan and maybe one or two races a month.

sullzz · 26-10-2017 12:11am

tuxy wrote: »

I've just started doing zwift races. Great workout but probably not the best for this time of year. Even in the lower category it's full effort for the duration of the race.
Back to the training plan and maybe one or two races a month.

Meh , dont over think things either , ive introduced a bit of high intensity into my training the last couple of weeks , my plan is to bring more intensity each week , if you enjoy the zwift racing then do it .

DKmac · 27-10-2017 3:15pm

tuxy wrote: »

I've just started doing zwift races. Great workout but probably not the best for this time of year. Even in the lower category it's full effort for the duration of the race.
Back to the training plan and maybe one or two races a month.

I'd be keeping a close eye on TSS with this sort of plan. Make sure you don't over fatigue yourself to the point that you leave too great a recovery gap between sessions. I try to keep a max of two days between sessions any more than that and the benefit from the stress of the previous session diminishes.

Delboy007 · 30-10-2017 3:58pm

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, let me know if not

I have started to use trainerroad for the 1^st time 3 weeks ago and have starting on Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 2 (skipped Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 1 as plan to so the build and the specialist and what to be done just before my 1^st A race) . I have the Kickr Snap.

I done my FTP test and it came back as 252 (I am 87kg), so I done 1^st 3 workout, I was not able to complete these without reducing the intensity so brought my FTP down to 248 and am still finding it hard to complete the workout without reducing the intensity ( i also peddle backwards to help me get through the workout).

Does this mean my FTP is way to high? Or is it normal not to be able to complete the workout.

Also I commute to work each day and this is 20km a day, so I am on the bike about 45min a day. Since I started using trainerroad every day my legs are way more tired than normal.

Should I reduce the amount of workouts I do on trainerroad and count my 5 day of commuting as one of the workout. Or will I get used to the workload and I will be able to complete all the workouts and my legs will not feel as tired.

I raced at A4 last year and did ok done 7 races and got place 3 time (best 4^th), my aim is to get upgraded to A3 in the 1^st 3 races of the season (reason doing trainerroad), so any help on the above would be great. I don’t what to waste my time doing work workout at the wrong FTP as my training time is limited as I have a 4 year old and 6 mt old kid (not getting full night sleep so I think this might be another factor in why I can not complete the workouts).

Chumpski · 30-10-2017 4:03pm

Delboy007 wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, let me know if not

I have started to use trainerroad for the 1^st time 3 weeks ago and have starting on Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 2 (skipped Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 1 as plan to so the build and the specialist and what to be done just before my 1^st A race) . I have the Kickr Snap.

I done my FTP test and it came back as 252, so I done 1^st 3 workout, I was not able to complete these without reducing the intensity so brought my FTP down to 248 and am still finding it hard to complete the workout without reducing the intensity ( i also peddle backwards to help me get through the workout).

Does this mean my FTP is way to high? Or is it normal not to be able to complete the workout.

Also I commute to work each day and this is 20km a day, so I am on the bike about 45min a day. Since I started using trainerroad every day my legs are way more tired than normal.

Should I reduce the amount of workouts I do on trainerroad and count my 5 day of commuting as one of the workout. Or will I get used to the workload and I will be able to complete all the workouts and my legs will not feel as tired.

I raced at A4 last year and did ok done 7 races and got place 3 time (best 4^th), my aim is to get upgraded to A3 in the 1^st 3 races of the season (reason doing trainerroad), so any help on the above would be great. I don’t what to waste my time doing work workout at the wrong FTP as my training time is limited as I have a 4 year old and 6 mt old kid (not getting full night sleep so I think this might be another factor in why I can not complete the workouts).

I just myself started using trainerroad with the sweet spot high volume 1 plan. I am finding the workouts tough, but i can complete them. I can maintain the power and typically my HR starts to rise on the last interval.

It sounds like your FTP might be too high. I would retake the FTP test this week if I was you to see.

I don't count commutes so far, as part of the workouts, i pedal easy on my commute and use it as warm up for the session. You have a slightly longer commute than me.

dahat · 30-10-2017 4:08pm

Did you do the 8 or 20min test? I'd recommend the 20min test especially as you are used to suffering etc. The 8min one is fine but easy get a higher test result I'd say.

Low volume is 3 workouts per week which should be well within your capabilities with a 252 ftp

Chumpski · 30-10-2017 4:15pm

I did the 20 min test. I had been doing a lot of 10 mile time trails in the summer and kind of based my effort on that effort level (I've never trained with power before) and that worked out well for me as the workouts are tough, i don't look forward to them but they are doable.

py · 30-10-2017 6:06pm

When I was following a training plan and also commuting, I kept all of my commuting miles to Z1 - no exceptions. Anything else and I'd be too tired to get much out of a workout.

RobFowl · 30-10-2017 6:32pm

FTP increased from 270 to 330 over the course of the season.
Very little specific sessions though.
Racing and just cycling pretty much...

Delboy007 · 30-10-2017 9:15pm

Thanks for that. Yea I done d 20 min ftp test so should be around right.
My heart rate build over d internals too. I just loss d power in the legs to kerp the cadence up. My keep my cadence up 90 or 95; then near d end of the 2nd last set I can not keep it up and d more it falls d harder it is to keep the power up. Usely d 2 last one is hard and d last I have to bring down to 20%. Will test myself again I think. Also for my cycling in and out of work I find it hard to take it easy but need to start that to see if it helps.

Chumpski · 30-10-2017 9:26pm

Everyone is different with regards to natural cadence. For me, I'm comfortable at 75-80. The drills say keep it at 85-90 and that causes my HR to go up over the sessions. I find 80-85 works better for me right now, pushing myself to spin more but not going too high yet. Over time i hope to increase it to 85+.

Maybe thats reason you are finding the workout too hard, 90+ cadence can be difficult to maintain if not natural for you?

FTP and cycle racing.

Comments