FTP and cycle racing.

dahat

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd also add don't get too hung up on watts per kg. I personally feel I focused too much on that last winter, to the detriment of my total power (dropped weight, watts per kg went up, but I didn't see big improvements in FTP).

Watts/kg is far more important than FTP for me, less weight means less power required hence less effort to get around a race.

Macy0161

dahat wrote: »

Watts/kg is far more important than FTP for me, less weight means less power required hence less effort to get around a race.

I'll bow to your much greater experience, and take that as a positive then!

I just found in the club races, unless the hill was late on/ final few k, that I was outgunned by the people I could drop on the hillier run ins to a finish.

dahat

Lucan GP in September, Has anyone raced this as an A3, does it end up typical bunch finish given the course? I'm tempted to give it a lash, sensible stuff after weeks off injured!!!

sullzz

dahat wrote: »

Lucan GP in September, Has anyone raced this as an A3, does it end up typical bunch finish given the course? I'm tempted to give it a lash, sensible stuff after weeks off injured!!!

Hey , this was ran as an A1,2,3 handicap race last year if I remember correctly . Can’t remember the reason why now as it’s usually separate races . A break can go on this course , the Seamus Kennedy memorial that was on a few weeks ago runs on a similar course and that broke up .
I’ll try find out if it’s going to be handicapped or separate races .

thekooman

sullzz wrote: »

Hey , this was ran as an A1,2,3 handicap race last year if I remember correctly . Can’t remember the reason why now as it’s usually separate races . A break can go on this course , the Seamus Kennedy memorial that was on a few weeks ago runs on a similar course and that broke up .
I’ll try find out if it’s going to be handicapped or separate races .

have to say i love the handicapped races where A3 is in with the A1 and 2's... a proper lesson in hard hard racing when the catch is made.

Miklos

thekooman wrote: »

have to say i love the handicapped races where A3 is in with the A1 and 2's... a proper lesson in hard hard racing when the catch is made.

Yeah it's a real lesson alright. You'd want to be sure you like the flavour of your handlebar tape.

CramCycle

dahat wrote: »

Lucan GP in September, Has anyone raced this as an A3, does it end up typical bunch finish given the course? I'm tempted to give it a lash, sensible stuff after weeks off injured!!!

Depends on the riders. If you make a break early enough and the wind is the right way, you can have a small group stay away. This said, if they are all together, i imagine bunch stupidity given the wide road

Miklos wrote: »

Yeah it's a real lesson alright. You'd want to be sure you like the flavour of your handlebar tape.

At this stage of the year mine tastes like salt and misery

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

Hey , this was ran as an A1,2,3 handicap race last year if I remember correctly . Can’t remember the reason why now as it’s usually separate races . A break can go on this course , the Seamus Kennedy memorial that was on a few weeks ago runs on a similar course and that broke up .
I’ll try find out if it’s going to be handicapped or separate races .

Races are listed as seperate on the cycle ireland portal so hopefully they stay the same. I don't think I'd travel for a handicapped race given the standard of sprinter up the country.

wirelessdude01

dahat wrote:

Races are listed as seperate on the cycle ireland portal so hopefully they stay the same. I don't think I'd travel for a handicapped race given the standard of sprinter up the country.

I'm gonna guess that numbers will dictate. Think we had planned separate races last year as well.

sullzz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm gonna guess that numbers will dictate. Think we had planned separate races last year as well.

It’s going to be handicapped A1, 2 and 3 with a separate A4 race .

CramCycle

sullzz wrote: »

It’s going to be handicapped A1, 2 and 3 with a separate A4 race .

Do you know is it on the Green Sheds course or the Dunsany course?

dahat

sullzz wrote: »

It’s going to be handicapped A1, 2 and 3 with a separate A4 race .

Meh, ah well.

dahat

Question for those with or have used coaching, was it worth it over say TrainerRoad /Zwfot type platforms for training programmes?

Is the objective analysis of your workouts set out by the coach something that brings benefits beyond general programmes?

Miklos

My first year of A4 (2017 season) I had a coach and found it very beneficial, my FTP was actually about 5% higher and generally felt strong on the bike.

This year I didn't have a coach and used TrainerRoad from December to March, it left me well able to compete in A4 and I was upgraded after a few races but I definitely have not felt quite as strong as I did last year. It's the big 1-5 minute power stuff I think I was missing.

Definitely going to go for a coach for the next season, A3 is a whole different kettle of ballgames.

mloc123

dahat wrote: »

Watts/kg is far more important than FTP for me, less weight means less power required hence less effort to get around a race.

Surely with most races here being flat here, total power is more important?

CramCycle

Hard to say, alot of races are up and down, so strategy and ability to jump are more important than total power as few at A4 and A3 have the power to TT away from the group.

dahat

Miklos wrote: »

My first year of A4 (2017 season) I had a coach and found it very beneficial, my FTP was actually about 5% higher and generally felt strong on the bike.

This year I didn't have a coach and used TrainerRoad from December to March, it left me well able to compete in A4 and I was upgraded after a few races but I definitely have not felt quite as strong as I did last year. It's the big 1-5 minute power stuff I think I was missing.

Definitely going to go for a coach for the next season, A3 is a whole different kettle of ballgames.

Yeah, much the same situation really.

A3 & injuries killed me this year so i'd like to be as best as i can be next year so coaching appealed as the rates weren't mad expensive though i'm sure testing for lactate etc may be extra.

As for the coaching itself it would take apply a more rigid structure to training than TR does currently i'd imagine.

dahat

mloc123 wrote: »

Surely with most races here being flat here, total power is more important?

Being flat isn't what i'd describe them, alot up the country seem to be but rural races tend to have lumpier courses.

My hilly and your hilly could be totally different ideas.:D

CramCycle

Went on an accidental solo break in the Ronnie Coates memorial on the last lap. Went at the reservoir bridge when another rider gave me a nod to pull out. I ended up flying through and shooting off the front. Expecting a few to either come or neutralise me. Looked behind a few km later and the bunch were gone. Got to a straight and I was away and no one coming. Seen my clubmate come to the front and watch for an attempt to stop me. I was getting close to the turn for the climb, knew there was a tailwind here and in every other lap I had taken the bunch by over 100m on the climb.
One guy bridged across and was strong. I took his wheel and forgot to keep an eye on the road. The marshals at the last turn had left, the lead car had went ahead and we didn't see it turn. I just copped the error as we passed and skidded so hard it looks like it nearly shredded my tire. Managed to skid 180 but I was in a big gear and stopped dead. By the time I took the turn the bunch was nearly on me and ploughed past as I carried nothing into the turn. Finished a few seconds down, gutted. Should have known the turn was there but I was looking out for the marshal so it threw me.
So close to points.

Macy0161

That's crap Cram - I can only think they miscounted the laps/ forgot to add in the pass to start the laps. I was at that corner, but for the A2/A3 race - just missed the last lap at Tomriland when I got out later, but heard someone was off the front.

Gasco

Sorry to hear that Cram, I was marshalling at Tomriland - you looked strong at the turn, and with the tailwind I thought you had a good chance.

Only realised I was talking to Macy after he had left.

nordicb

Sometimes the course is so lumpy and windy(curvy), that it, sometimes, pays off to go into break early, even solo, tuck your elbows and stay that way until finish - can take better lines and safer too. FTP does come into play here however.

CramCycle

Thanks, it was my own fault as well, I had it in my head for that turn, if I was clear I had a good chance but as was said to me, I should have paid attention. I also got lucky as everyone though I was a lunatic who would tire in the wind, i really hadn't went into the red at all though.

Great course though, a nice mix of everything. Lost a fair bit of weight recently so I would say my FTP is upto about 3.5W/kg it is certainly making climbing easier.

I am annoyed but more with myself for missing the chance than anything else.

sullzz

CramCycle wrote: »

Thanks, it was my own fault as well, I had it in my head for that turn, if I was clear I had a good chance but as was said to me, I should have paid attention. I also got lucky as everyone though I was a lunatic who would tire in the wind, i really hadn't went into the red at all though.

Great course though, a nice mix of everything. Lost a fair bit of weight recently so I would say my FTP is upto about 3.5W/kg it is certainly making climbing easier.

I am annoyed but more with myself for missing the chance than anything else.

Aw man , sorry to hear that Cram , I’d be totally gutted . Although good to see you’re in good shape again , albeit at the end of the season . Carry it through into the winter and stay focused and you will hit next season flying .

daragh_

Cram has been dishing out the pain in the last few ICL races. A win is inevitable boss. Your day will come.

dahat

How much time are folk taking off the bike with the season just about over?

Are you one of those that gets sick of the bike after season ends?

Will you drop intensity or just train away through the late Autumn /Early winter time?

Personally I'm trying to shift timber so I am going to train with intensity as per normal for a few weeks yet.

I will likely take a week off in October then make a decision on whether to go with a coach for 2019 (Premier Endurance). I would love to but its a cost thing to consider as well.

sullzz

dahat wrote: »

How much time are folk taking off the bike with the season just about over?

Are you one of those that gets sick of the bike after season ends?

Will you drop intensity or just train away through the late Autumn /Early winter time?

Personally I'm trying to shift timber so I am going to train with intensity as per normal for a few weeks yet.

I will likely take a week off in October then make a decision on whether to go with a coach for 2019 (Premier Endurance). I would love to but its a cost thing to consider as well.

I myself have had a long enough break through injury , so I’ve already started a base block with slight intensity , I’ll gradually build on this . A lot of the top A1 lads in my club won’t necessarily take a break but will certainly bring the intensity right back , probably down to 2hr spins on sat and sun and build up from there .
Regarding coaching , i have seriously thought about it , especially after my crash that cut my season in half , but I came to the conclusion that I know my weaknesses and there is enough information online to help me work on these .
Over the last 2 weeks or so I have built my FTP up 15w since getting back on the bike , hopefully at my next FTP test I’ll be back up to my previous threshold pre crash .
I think once you are well disciplined and somewhat tech savvy , you can be your best coach ... of maybe I just a tight bastard that can’t see the justification of spending 150 euro per month on a coach .

CramCycle

I agree with Sullzz. Coaches overcome those issues with focus many of us have, you can get decent plans rather than one on one for a lot less. If you can follow them, they can be just as good. If your focused,well read and not quick to buy into fads, then there is probably no need in one but for many of us, if money is no issue, it will do no harm.

If you do go down that road, research well who your getting, I'd have my own recommendations but as someone commented at the weekend, you see lads winning two races and becoming coaches. You also see lads who have one loads of races but have learned how to twist BS like Matthew Syed and think they know best.

There is also the cost benefit ratio to consider, and this is cheap skate me. I am never going to be much more than an A4 racer, at a stretch A3. I won't ever be A2 without going down a very different pathway. I am fine with that, I love racing. Putting money into coaches is beneficial if winning A4 races is worth that cash to me but honestly, nope. If I wanted A2 glory I started racing 10 years too late thanks to genetics.

I am having almost as much craic racing e bikes on the commute home.

elchupanebrey

CramCycle wrote: »

I agree with Sullzz. Coaches overcome those issues with focus many of us have, you can get decent plans rather than one on one for a lot less. If you can follow them, they can be just as good. If your focused,well read and not quick to buy into fads, then there is probably no need in one but for many of us, if money is no issue, it will do no harm.

If you do go down that road, research well who your getting, I'd have my own recommendations but as someone commented at the weekend, you see lads winning two races and becoming coaches. You also see lads who have one loads of races but have learned how to twist BS like Matthew Syed and think they know best.

There is also the cost benefit ratio to consider, and this is cheap skate me. I am never going to be much more than an A4 racer, at a stretch A3. I won't ever be A2 without going down a very different pathway. I am fine with that, I love racing. Putting money into coaches is beneficial if winning A4 races is worth that cash to me but honestly, nope. If I wanted A2 glory I started racing 10 years too late thanks to genetics.

I am having almost as much craic racing e bikes on the commute home.

If you are riding off the front of an A4 bunch I'd say there is a good chance you will get through A4 without too much bother, and A3 is not as bad once the juniors are moved up to A2. You can progress from A4 to A1 without a coach but need to know what sessions to do and when is best to do them. Whether progression without particularly spectacular results is enough is another matter!

dahat

Crams point about putting too much into what level you are at is a good point, I'm currently a struggling A3 but could win another A4 if I get downgraded next year so throwing €100 a month at that level does seem ott.

If i got my weight to a more manageable level I'd improve further so maybe that's the route for me to take this Autumn / Winter, rather than look to improvey ftp it's the watts/kg figure that needs addressing.

I personally will find it counter productive to take time off the bike given the time lost this year for me, I'm probably fitter now than at any point of the year so far. I am also enjoying the bike so why stop the intensity?