FTP and cycle racing.

Stevieg2009 · 07-03-2017 10:17am

InTheAttic wrote: »

Everyone is given that advice. It's exactly what was said to me before newbridge - "try and get up around top 10-15 when the drags start so you aren't dropped". I did exactly that on the first lap and was out the back door of the front group during the second drag. I then watched the front group of 20 round the bend of dunmurray drag and disappear. Race over in the first few kilometers. A lot of people underestimate the power of some riders in A4. To me, it sounds like you're putting off the inevitable. Just get out and race and give it a go. Nearly all of us are dropped in our first few races.

Spot on there today's A4 rider is tomorrow's A1 rider in a lot of cases never underestimate that....

tuxy · 07-03-2017 11:12am

crazy_kenny wrote: »

I'm finding my positioning really poor. I tend to sit towards the back and don't really bother moving up until splits start happening. At the Lacey cup when the split happened I couldn't bridge the gap. How do others get good positioning and hold that position in the bunch?

Don't just go out and cycling at a steady speed for a few hours. But if you have been doing that it's ok this gives you a good base endurance level.

Now you must do intervals, you need high power for 1,2 and even 4 mins. And you need to have quick recovery after these efforts. It's not difficult but it just takes the right type of training.

harringtonp · 07-03-2017 11:44am

Stevieg2009 wrote: »

Spot on there today's A4 rider is tomorrow's A1 rider in a lot of cases never underestimate that....

Yes you'd be pleasantly surprised at how things can calm down later in the year when both A4 and A3 are left with guys whose level is primarily that of the category. Most of your "A1 material" A4s and A3s have moved up at that point. Some guys go from A4 to A1 in a year and its not like they are typical A4 when racing in that category.

Did Broadford last Sunday and being an M50 was able to do the A4 race rather than the A1/2/3 (A3 license). And was it handy ? Not a chance, there was a guy from the chain gang cycling club in Kerry who was the only one in shorts on a savage day. He drove it hard from the go finishing 2nd in the end. Was waiting for him (and the 1 or 2 other helpers) to tire but they never did and even just following wheels the whole race I completely blew 3rd time up the climb.

This was a very different from my memory of A4 races some years back... then again I am older

Bambaata · 07-03-2017 12:19pm

To help with those jumps in intensity and short recovery do loads of 1min on/off where the 1 on is full gas on. You'll hate them but they're good. I try to do a few of them every so often and mix it up with 30s on/off where i've built to 30-40mins of them.

dahat · 07-03-2017 1:30pm

tuxy wrote: »

Don't just go out and cycling at a steady speed for a few hours. But if you have been doing that it's ok this gives you a good base endurance level.

Now you must do intervals, you need high power for 1,2 and even 4 mins. And you need to have quick recovery after these efforts. It's not difficult but it just takes the right type of training.

TrainerRoad is the answer.....

crazy_kenny · 07-03-2017 2:27pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Yes you'd be pleasantly surprised at how things can calm down later in the year when both A4 and A3 are left with guys whose level is primarily that of the category. Most of your "A1 material" A4s and A3s have moved up at that point. Some guys go from A4 to A1 in a year and its not like they are typical A4 when racing in that category.

Did Broadford last Sunday and being an M50 was able to do the A4 race rather than the A1/2/3 (A3 license). And was it handy ? Not a chance, there was a guy from the chain gang cycling club in Kerry who was the only one in shorts on a savage day. He drove it hard from the go finishing 2nd in the end. Was waiting for him (and the 1 or 2 other helpers) to tire but they never did and even just following wheels the whole race I completely blew 3rd time up the climb.

This was a very different from my memory of A4 races some years back... then again I am older

That guy from the chain gang won the Lacey Cup A4 the previous week. Similar story drove it from the start to finish. Probably upgraded now.

harringtonp · 07-03-2017 3:07pm

crazy_kenny wrote: »

That guy from the chain gang won the Lacey Cup A4 the previous week. Similar story drove it from the start to finish. Probably upgraded now.

Hopefully he'll get through A3 as quick as he did A4.

InTheAttic · 07-03-2017 3:43pm

dahat wrote: »

TrainerRoad is the answer.....

I dunno. I've been (I'm sure like many in A4 in this day and age) coached for months and have not peaked through coaching. In fact, my fitness has gone backwards as I spent too much time training on the turbo instead of out on the roads. Nothing compares to getting out on a long endurance ride with a few hard drags where you are willing to put the hammer down. Just remember to keep the power on when you come down the drag. If you can do that, it's a good start. I think data analytics is a bit overrated in the cycling game. I'll leave that stuff to the pros.

InTheAttic · 07-03-2017 3:46pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

I dunno. I've been (I'm sure like many in A4 in this day and age) coached for months and have not peaked through coaching. In fact, my fitness has gone backwards as I spent too much time training on the turbo instead of out on the roads. Nothing compares to getting out on a long endurance ride with a few hard drags where you are willing to put the hammer down. Just remember to keep the power on when you come down the drag. If you can do that, it's a good start. I think data analytics is a bit overrated in the cycling game. I'll leave that stuff to the pros.

Also dahat, I'm not out to get you by replying to your posts by the way!

It's just a matter of opinions is all

dahat · 07-03-2017 4:16pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

Also dahat, I'm not out to get you by replying to your posts by the way! It's just a matter of opinions is all

I'd never think that, I appreciate all input as I'm a noob racer and any info etc is helpful.

I'm just mad to get going and as per normal.im over thinking the whole matter.

dahat · 07-03-2017 4:18pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

I dunno. I've been (I'm sure like many in A4 in this day and age) coached for months and have not peaked through coaching. In fact, my fitness has gone backwards as I spent too much time training on the turbo instead of out on the roads. Nothing compares to getting out on a long endurance ride with a few hard drags where you are willing to put the hammer down. Just remember to keep the power on when you come down the drag. If you can do that, it's a good start. I think data analytics is a bit overrated in the cycling game. I'll leave that stuff to the pros.

Weekday turbo as work and winter don't allow me to train outside but I always do my Sunday spin of 100k and there is always hard efforts involved.

Mixing the two forms of training is the way to go but as you said it's all opinions.

harringtonp · 07-03-2017 5:20pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

I dunno. I've been (I'm sure like many in A4 in this day and age) coached for months and have not peaked through coaching. In fact, my fitness has gone backwards as I spent too much time training on the turbo instead of out on the roads. Nothing compares to getting out on a long endurance ride with a few hard drags where you are willing to put the hammer down. Just remember to keep the power on when you come down the drag. If you can do that, it's a good start. I think data analytics is a bit overrated in the cycling game. I'll leave that stuff to the pros.

Interesting, I'd usually be an advocate of short turbo and HIIT but still usually get one good 3hr+ spin in at weekends. At the race in Broadford while I was ok first time up the hill I felt there was no endurance and suffered after. Due to holidays, icy conditions and other reasons I saw that the last time I did a longer endurance spin was 5 weeks previous (even though I had been doing 3/4 good turbo sessions a week). As my endurance is usually one of my stronger areas this was a crystal clear sign that you ignore it at your peril. I do think however that once you do have a base one good endurance spin every 1-2 weeks will suffice.

08-03-2017 11:19pm

Any tips for a newbie to ras lumni a4 race on Sunday?

Inquitus · 08-03-2017 11:35pm

837897 wrote: »

Any tips for a newbie to ras lumni a4 race on Sunday?

Don't fall off, and cross the line first if possible!

Seadin · 08-03-2017 11:38pm

837897 wrote: »

Any tips for a newbie to ras lumni a4 race on Sunday?

Stay out of trouble and go up the road. I don't want to scare you but the circuit is lethal for crashes etc A4 field. In the 2015 race there was about 10 crashes in the race and good few of them happened in the last 1km of the race.

dahat · 09-03-2017 7:46am

Seadin wrote: »

Stay out of trouble and go up the road. I don't want to scare you but the circuit is lethal for crashes etc A4 field. In the 2015 race there was about 10 crashes in the race and good few of them happened in the last 1km of the race.

I'm also heading here for my first race and have been warned about crashes here so hopefully all goes well. Probably should have picked another race but so be it.
I'm not expecting to be in the hunt at the end so I may back off if that's the case..

dahat · 09-03-2017 7:46am

837897 wrote: »

Any tips for a newbie to ras lumni a4 race on Sunday?

I'll meet ya there and we will.go up the road away from all the crashes!!!

InTheAttic · 09-03-2017 11:12am

Seadin wrote: »

Stay out of trouble and go up the road. I don't want to scare you but the circuit is lethal for crashes etc A4 field. In the 2015 race there was about 10 crashes in the race and good few of them happened in the last 1km of the race.

That's enough to put me off this race so! Being in the bunch for the first few kilometers at newbridge last weekend gave me a sense for how lethal being in the bunch is. But damn... it was fun!!

ht9zni1gs28crp · 09-03-2017 12:02pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

There is no handy setting off. These races go from the gun and you'll be sawing your nuts off. If you're not, then you're straight out the back. It's a shock to the system. Just checked strava there and the first 21km of cycleways, I averaged 40km/hr and 276 watts and I couldn't get on to the breakaway. I tried. It mustve been that TCR numpty from earlier driving it at the front!

No one in that break on a TCR :cool::D

dahat · 09-03-2017 12:50pm

Seadin wrote: »

Stay out of trouble and go up the road. I don't want to scare you but the circuit is lethal for crashes etc A4 field. In the 2015 race there was about 10 crashes in the race and good few of them happened in the last 1km of the race.

That bad a circuit? Is it narrow or just on bad surfaces?

Stevieg2009 · 09-03-2017 2:39pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

That's enough to put me off this race so! Being in the bunch for the first few kilometers at newbridge last weekend gave me a sense for how lethal being in the bunch is. But damn... it was fun!!

And that turned out to be a safe race because the bunch split so quick not always the case I'm afraid

harringtonp · 09-03-2017 3:36pm

dahat wrote: »

That bad a circuit? Is it narrow or just on bad surfaces?

Haven't done it in a few years but from memory surfaces were good and it wasn't too narrow.

Section I never liked was the last one which is the R513 from Hospital and this is mainly because it is a busy road and with riders not staying on their own side of the line there is a lot of the concertina effect.

May well do it this Sunday

dahat · 09-03-2017 3:54pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Haven't done it in a few years but from memory surfaces were good and it wasn't too narrow.

Section I never liked was the last one which is the R513 from Hospital and this is mainly because it is a busy road and with riders not staying on their own side of the line there is a lot of the concertina effect.

May well do it this Sunday

That is likely the crashes section then maybe? I don't know the area so i may get there earlier than I planned and try get a proper look at the circuit.

Seadin · 09-03-2017 6:23pm

dahat wrote: »

That bad a circuit? Is it narrow or just on bad surfaces?

I found it narrow and you have a lot of riders taking part in the race. I did it twice as an A4. I guess all races are dangerous though and there is always the risk of crashing in any race no matter how safe it is. Ras luimni is pretty flat race though, very little climbing with it. I always remember that last part of the circuit where you take a left and up the final drag before finish line was the most dangerous of it all.

dahat · 09-03-2017 6:42pm

Been looking at the circuit on a a map and yes that looks very tricky. Anyone well.placed tjereust have a chance overall if the bunch is together.

Miklos · 09-03-2017 9:16pm

This might seem like a dumb question but if you've got your numbers pinned on and it starts raining can you stick on a gilet or jacket if they're covering up your numbers?

sullzz · 09-03-2017 9:48pm

Miklos wrote: »

This might seem like a dumb question but if you've got your numbers pinned on and it starts raining can you stick on a gilet or jacket if they're covering up your numbers?

No your numbers must be visable , if you wear a gilet or jacket you must make sure you have it pulled up over your numbers .

Seadin · 09-03-2017 10:05pm

Miklos wrote: »

This might seem like a dumb question but if you've got your numbers pinned on and it starts raining can you stick on a gilet or jacket if they're covering up your numbers?

Make sure you keep jacket up over the numbers.

sullzz · 10-03-2017 6:23am

InTheAttic wrote: »

But damn... it was fun!!

And once it stops being fun you know its time to give it up .

dahat · 12-03-2017 7:41pm

So today was the day I made my A4 racing debut at Ras Luimni and boy was it hairy at times.

An early crash maybe 5km in then a few more through out with one particular nasty one very near the line, hope the lad is ok as he was motionless when I skipped past.

At 40km of 62km I had enough of a stop start pace in head and crosswinds so I went up the road with another lad for mayne 10-13 km which I enjoyed and if we had maybe one more it may have lasted longer. Overall a messy race with 137 A4 around narrow roads.

Normalised power came back at 323 watts from a Stages power meter, a bit shocked tbh.

CramCycle · 12-03-2017 8:08pm

Well done dahat, that is what A4 racing is meant to be all about, giving it socks and going off up the road. Staying away for 13km with only one other person, has to be said, a good start.

Inquitus · 12-03-2017 8:10pm

dahat wrote: »

Normalised power came back at 323 watts from a Stages power meter, a bit shocked tbh.

Watts/Kg is a big deal, if you can hit close to 4W/Kg then you'll do very well in A4 and end up in A3, don't know what you weigh.

dahat · 12-03-2017 8:10pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Well done dahat, that is what A4 racing is meant to be all about, giving it socks and going off up the road. Staying away for 13km with only one other person, has to be said, a good start.

Thanks, really enjoyed it and looking forward to more. Carrick next week but that's a whole different ball game, lumpy 80km and no one day allowed so it might be a bit more sensible.

dahat · 12-03-2017 8:39pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Watts/Kg is a big deal, if you can hit close to 4W/Kg then you'll do very well in A4 and end up in A3, don't know what you weigh.

Ah fat as a fool in cyclists terms, at best I'll hot 3 watts/kg as I'm 15st 9 currently but not a fat man at that weigjt if ya get me.
Once I can race respectably and be in contention somewhat this year I'll be happy, any thoughts of race wins or placing will be for 2018 I'm afraid.

Kaisr Sose · 12-03-2017 8:43pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Well done dahat, that is what A4 racing is meant to be all about, giving it socks and going off up the road. Staying away for 13km with only one other person, has to be said, a good start.

Second that! You are a man of your word. You don't happen to have a TCR attached to that Stages...?

harringtonp · 12-03-2017 9:03pm

dahat wrote: »

So today was the day I made my A4 racing debut at Ras Luimni and boy was it hairy at times.

An early crash maybe 5km in then a few more through out with one particular nasty one very near the line, hope the lad is ok as he was motionless when I skipped past.

At 40km of 62km I had enough of a stop start pace in head and crosswinds so I went up the road with another lad for mayne 10-13 km which I enjoyed and if we had maybe one more it may have lasted longer. Overall a messy race with 137 A4 around narrow roads.

Normalised power came back at 323 watts from a Stages power meter, a bit shocked tbh.

Good stuff. I remembered today why I decided to give the race a skip. Nobody hit the deck in the A3 as far as I know but on the last leg of the first lap the speed suddenly picked up over 50 km/hr. Something happened further up the line and there was mad braking and skidding. Went into the rear of the bike in front and even though somehow managed to stay on the bike, bust 2 spokes and that was end of race. The same happened a foreign (polish) guy further up the line in the same incident: he bust a front wheel spoke but also stayed on his bike.

dahat · 12-03-2017 9:19pm

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Second that! You are a man of your word. You don't happen to have a TCR attached to that Stages...?

I do indeed....

dahat · 12-03-2017 9:21pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Good stuff. I remembered today why I decided to give the race a skip. Nobody hit the deck in the A3 as far as I know but on the last leg of the first lap the speed suddenly picked up over 50 km/hr. Something happened further up the line and there was mad braking and skidding. Went into the rear of the bike in front and even though somehow managed to stay on the bike, bust 2 spokes and that was end of race. The same happened a foreign (polish) guy further up the line in the same incident: he bust a front wheel spoke but also stayed on his bike.

Nasty little circuit tbh, A2A1 race was held up after the carnage on the A4 race.

That's a messy way to end a race but as you said at least you stayed on the bike, cross and headwinds didn't help either.

Seadin · 12-03-2017 9:23pm

Good power there. I Normalised at 288w in the A3 race I weigh about 76kg.

crazy_kenny · 12-03-2017 10:13pm

dahat wrote: »

So today was the day I made my A4 racing debut at Ras Luimni and boy was it hairy at times.

An early crash maybe 5km in then a few more through out with one particular nasty one very near the line, hope the lad is ok as he was motionless when I skipped past.

At 40km of 62km I had enough of a stop start pace in head and crosswinds so I went up the road with another lad for mayne 10-13 km which I enjoyed and if we had maybe one more it may have lasted longer. Overall a messy race with 137 A4 around narrow roads.

Normalised power came back at 323 watts from a Stages power meter, a bit shocked tbh.

Well done today. Didn't travel today but sounded like a fairly nervous a4 bunch. Pity a few others didn't join the break, may have stayed away all race.

InTheAttic · 13-03-2017 12:00am

dahat wrote: »

Thanks, really enjoyed it and looking forward to more. Carrick next week but that's a whole different ball game, lumpy 80km and no one day allowed so it might be a bit more sensible.

I'll be there on friday. Do you have the strava segment for the race? Or for anyone who has done it before, how tough a circuit is it? Still building my legs so want to find a group I'm comfortable in and just get the training efforts in.

crazy_kenny · 13-03-2017 4:36am

InTheAttic wrote: »

I'll be there on friday. Do you have the strava segment for the race? Or for anyone who has done it before, how tough a circuit is it? Still building my legs so want to find a group I'm comfortable in and just get the training efforts in.

Different route than last year. 4 laps of 20km. Each lap has 2 sharp left handers and one 5km drag. Link to the route is below.

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/fullscreen/1388910691/

dahat · 13-03-2017 6:44am

InTheAttic wrote: »

I'll be there on friday. Do you have the strava segment for the race? Or for anyone who has done it before, how tough a circuit is it? Still building my legs so want to find a group I'm comfortable in and just get the training efforts in.

Not the easiest of circuits and sure to be spit imo. If ya see a TCR in your group hit me up as I won't be up the road this time.
It's pre registration only and limited to 80 riders which is a relief.

InTheAttic · 13-03-2017 11:12am

dahat wrote: »

Not the easiest of circuits and sure to be spit imo. If ya see a TCR in your group hit me up as I won't be up the road this time.
It's pre registration only and limited to 80 riders which is a relief.

Will do. Yeah I've registered. All the better if the group is split. It's safer. I'll let those "early-bloomers" go and won't even try to make my way to the front this time. It's a long season and i'll get my legs in time.

dahat · 13-03-2017 7:04pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

Will do. Yeah I've registered. All the better if the group is split. It's safer. I'll let those "early-bloomers" go and won't even try to make my way to the front this time. It's a long season and i'll get my legs in time.

Just back from a quick loop of the circuit and 80km round there will be torture imo. Two very fast parts but the draggy parts will hurt and I'd expect the group to be in tatters after the first lap.

CramCycle · 13-03-2017 7:30pm

Do people want me to split the chats into different threads for the different races? PM me if you do.

tegerman · 13-03-2017 10:50pm

dahat wrote: »

Just back from a quick loop of the circuit and 80km round there will be torture imo. Two very fast parts but the draggy parts will hurt and I'd expect the group to be in tatters after the first lap.

Wouldn't be so sure. There were three drags per lap last year (including this years one) and the group stayed together pretty much whole way round.

But yes, it will be torture

dahat · 14-03-2017 12:41pm

tegerman wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure. There were three drags per lap last year (including this years one) and the group stayed together pretty much whole way round.

But yes, it will be torture

I hope you are right as I'm planning to hide as long as possible and try get a top 20 placing which I think will be a good result for me.

CramCycle · 14-03-2017 1:45pm

Knocking out 250W without much stress for half an hour in work. Based on not being clipped in and not receiving much in the way of pressure. This leaves me severely undersetimating my W/kg at 3, which as far as I can tell, puts me in the bottom half of A4.

Key thing taken here, not back of A4. Must try and get time on the Wattbike and get an accurate measurement.

Sarz91 · 14-03-2017 1:48pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Knocking out 250W without much stress for half an hour in work. Based on not being clipped in and not receiving much in the way of pressure. This leaves me severely undersetimating my W/kg at 3, which as far as I can tell, puts me in the bottom half of A4.

Key thing taken here, not back of A4. Must try and get time on the Wattbike and get an accurate measurement.

Can I have your job? Or can you point me in the right direction as to where to apply?

FTP and cycle racing.

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