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Buying a holiday home as main Residence

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  • 24-01-2017 10:38am
    #1
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭


    I am a first time buyer. Would there be any legal restrictions against me buying a holiday home as a primary/sole residence (ie living in it permanently)? Are holiday homes legally registered as such in any way? Does that registration apply permanently to the home itself or only to the owner based on their situation?


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    #2
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I am a first time buyer. Would there be any legal restrictions against me buying a holiday home as a primary/sole residence (ie living in it permanently)? Are holiday homes legally registered as such in any way? Does that registration apply permanently to the home itself or only to the only based on their situation?

    There are no stipulations in law differentiating between various different residential structures- the only place you might have an issue regarding permanent residence in a 'holiday home' might be in the lease for the property- however, normally the lease states that a property must be occupied for at least a minimum number of days (and nights) per annum- but not a maximum. Its to do with insurance on the property.

    I can't see there being an issue- however, it would be best if you went through the lease associated with the property for any terms or strictures associated with the property.


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    #3
    JimmyMW
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I am a first time buyer. Would there be any legal restrictions against me buying a holiday home as a primary/sole residence (ie living in it permanently)? Are holiday homes legally registered as such in any way? Does that registration apply permanently to the home itself or only to the only based on their situation?

    Id say you might have trouble with planning permission, the same as using an ordinary house as a shop etc.

    In saying that there is nothing to say you are not on a 365 day a year holiday id suppose.


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    #4
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    JimmyMW wrote: »
    Id say you might have trouble with planning permission, the same as using an ordinary house as a shop etc.

    In saying that there is nothing to say you are not on a 365 day a year holiday id suppose.

    A holiday home needs the same planning permission as a regular dwelling- I'm not sure how the OP would have an issue here tbh?


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    #5
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    A holiday home needs the same planning permission as a regular dwelling- I'm not sure how the OP would have an issue here tbh?

    As far as I know holiday homes are sometimes in a separate use class to permanent residential dwellings or they come with maximum occupation conditions attached, hence Dublin City council determining that short term air BNB lets are a change of use and need permission. It's the same idea in reverse.

    The way to check is to look at the planning permission for the house.

    The other thing I'd be wary of is insulation levels. Holiday homes are typically built for occupation in the warmer months so the spec is lower then in a normal house. Can make for truly miserable winters.


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    #6
    painauchocolat
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭painauchocolat


    If the house you're looking at is in a development of holiday homes, could you find yourself quite isolated over winter? Would you be the only /one of few occupants in the development?


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    #7
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭dennyk


    painauchocolat wrote: »
    If the house you're looking at is in a development of holiday homes, could you find yourself quite isolated over winter? Would you be the only /one of few occupants in the development?

    It's certainly possible, and during the peak seasons you may end up with an endless rotation of short-term neighbors in many of the units, some of whom may tend to be more disruptive than a long-term renter would be, as they have no real connection to the area and no stake in keeping good relations with the neighborhood since they're only there for a few days.


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    #8
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,900 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Were some not built on tax schemes that prohibited year round use for a large block of years?


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    #9
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    The other thing I'd be wary of is insulation levels. Holiday homes are typically built for occupation in the warmer months so the spec is lower then in a normal house. Can make for truly miserable winters.

    The BER for it is C, so I imagine it is fine during the winter.


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    #10
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Thanks for all your replies.
    I figured there was some issue with it, given that it was looking for cash buyers only.
    The estate agent just got back to me and told me that it is a leasehold, not a freehold. It's part of a number of holiday homes the majority of which belong to a nearby hotel/leisure centre (it being one of a few belonging to private owners). It has no management fees but has a 3 month maximum continuous stay term in the lease. She doesn't expect them to enforce that (:rolleyes:) but still said she would tell any first time buyers to avoid as I wouldn't get a mortgage for it and it wouldn't hold the same value over a standard house if I tried to sell it in X years.


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    #11
    GhostyMcGhost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭GhostyMcGhost


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Thanks for all your replies.
    I figured there was some issue with it, given that it was looking for cash buyers only.
    The estate agent just got back to me and told me that it is a leasehold, not a freehold. It's part of a number of holiday homes the majority of which belong to a nearby hotel/leisure centre (it being one of a few belonging to private owners). It has no management fees but has a 3 month maximum continuous stay term in the lease. She doesn't expect them to enforce that (:rolleyes:) but still said she would tell any first time buyers to avoid as I wouldn't get a mortgage for it and it wouldn't hold the same value over a standard house if I tried to sell it in X years.

    I'd be surprised if the bank did give you a mortgage for it tbh, the market is already in despair and with people honestly researching if holiday homes would make a good family home (no offence) ... as an upcoming FTB myself, this all makes for depressing reading. We have not learned 1 thing from the last 10 years


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    #12
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    GhostyMcGhost wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if the bank did give you a mortgage for it tbh, the market is already in despair and with people honestly researching if holiday homes would make a good family home (no offence) ... as an upcoming FTB myself, this all makes for depressing reading. We have not learned 1 thing from the last 10 years

    The market isn't in despair though- construction is expanding- we will definitely finish 18k new residences in 2017- possibly as high as 19k- its not at our replacement level (estimated by the ESRI to be in or around 25k units)- but its at the sort of level which is sustainable (to a certain degree)).

    I can see a certain amount of reason behind buying a holiday home as a PPR- however, location would be key- it would have to fit into my lifestyle (young children, access to work and schools etc etc).

    I don't think its as depressing as you're making out- it could be a very nice decision- but it is the sort of thing that you'd have to research properly.


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    #13
    Reggiesmammy
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Reggiesmammy


    Check out the plumbing/sewage pipes & tank, May not be equipped to cope with full time residence


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    #14
    Ayuntamiento
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Ayuntamiento


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The market isn't in despair though- construction is expanding- we will definitely finish 18k new residences in 2017- possibly as high as 19k- its not at our replacement level (estimated by the ESRI to be in or around 25k units)- but its at the sort of level which is sustainable (to a certain degree)).

    I can see a certain amount of reason behind buying a holiday home as a PPR- however, location would be key- it would have to fit into my lifestyle (young children, access to work and schools etc etc).

    I don't think its as depressing as you're making out- it could be a very nice decision- but it is the sort of thing that you'd have to research properly.

    The only new builds that I can see in Dublin are all being pitched at the €500k+ market. That's no help to First time buyers.
    Anything cheaper than that is located in grim areas like Ongar or Clongriffin.


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    #15
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ayuntamiento wrote: »
    The only new builds that I can see in Dublin are all being pitched at the €500k+ market. That's no help to First time buyers.
    Anything cheaper than that is located in grim areas like Ongar or Clongriffin.

    Plenty of building in Lucan/Clondalkin/Tallaght and across the valley in Clonee/Blanch all the way up to North County Dublin.

    As you say- many locations may be subprime- as in, not where you would choose to live had to choice in the matter.

    The numbers don't lie though- we are on target for 18k+ completions for 2017- many of them may be apartment blocks in Tallaght or elsewhere- but they are units coming on stream.

    There are- as you have rightly identified- not insignificant numbers of 400k+ valued properties also springing up- in lower density developments- including a few in Lucan and Clonee- but they are very much in a minority.

    The argument from the government- is as always- First Time Buyers buy their first home- a first time buyer property- and trade up later when their circumstances and/or needs change. Obviously this is bull of the highest order- however, it is the song that is being sung- and it is wholly oblivious to the irrefutable fact that we already have tens of thousands of people condemned to live in unsuitable accommodation from the last time round- as they don't have the means- or the availability of suitable alternate accommodation. The really galling thing for many of them- is if they let out their home- and rent elsewhere- they can't offset the rental income against rental outgoings- and now, for good measure- the Minister has devalued their home by perhaps 30-40%...........

    Ps- plenty of people would argue with you that Ongar and Clongriffin aren't as 'grim' as you are asserting............


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    #16
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,336 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The market isn't in despair though- construction is expanding- we will definitely finish 18k new residences in 2017- possibly as high as 19k- its not at our replacement level (estimated by the ESRI to be in or around 25k units)- but its at the sort of level which is sustainable (to a certain degree)).

    I can see a certain amount of reason behind buying a holiday home as a PPR- however, location would be key- it would have to fit into my lifestyle (young children, access to work and schools etc etc).

    I don't think its as depressing as you're making out- it could be a very nice decision- but it is the sort of thing that you'd have to research properly.

    a house which has a preclusion against continuous occupation is not mortgageable as a PPR irrespective of whether there is an expectation that the freeholder would not object. I can't see it being suitable for the OP.


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