Application to build a Lidl in Douglas village

kub

County Council incompetence or greed on show here, I am not sure which was worse but am glad this was over ruled.

TheChizler

Is there enough room there for a mixed use development?

beer enigma

“Traffic already in Douglas is terrible and to add another shopping centre in Barry’s Field would just add to that."

What about the ALDI they've granted permission for at the sacrifice of the cinema ?

j8wk2feszrnpao

beer enigma wrote: »

“Traffic already in Douglas is terrible and to add another shopping centre in Barry’s Field would just add to that."

What about the ALDI they've granted permission for at the sacrifice of the cinema ?

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

snotboogie

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

I think there is a lot more potential in the cinema space than there is in Barry's field. Douglas badly needs weekday footfall, the place is dead during office hours, compare that to Ballincollig who have a far more vibrant main street and also have significant occupied office space. A mixed use office/apartment/hotel development would be far better for Douglas than an Aldi. The cinema and the green site next to it is the only stance I can think of that makes sense.

JohnK

From the sounds of it the Aldi might be in trouble as well

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Concern-expressed-on-Douglas-development-113db4c3-769a-4090-a286-c2f141d0ecf7-ds

namloc1980

JohnK wrote: »

From the sounds of it the Aldi might be in trouble as well

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Concern-expressed-on-Douglas-development-113db4c3-769a-4090-a286-c2f141d0ecf7-ds

It just got planning by the council but surely if it's appealed to ABP they'll decline it like they did Lidl. County council are clueless and have made a total clusterfcuk of Douglas. It's like a giant retail park with concrete bunkers surrounded by oceans of parking. That site should be much much more than just another supermarket.

JohnK

namloc1980 wrote: »

It just got planning by the council but surely if it's appealed to ABP they'll decline it like they did Lidl. County council are clueless and have made a total clusterfcuk of Douglas. It's like a giant retail park with concrete bunkers surrounded by oceans of parking. That site should be much much more than just another supermarket.

Yeah after they declined Lidl, it'd be very surprising if the didnt decline an Aldi which is pretty much just across the road. Especially if they start bringing traffic into the equation, with the queues that can build up outside McDonalds having an Aldi opening onto the same small bit of road would be madness.

whisky_galore

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

j8wk2feszrnpao

whisky_galore wrote: »

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

I'd like something other than another food store, but the cinema was either making a loss or the owner was putting no cash into the upkeep; it was in a poor state and seems to be getting worse.
Issue may be that there isn't another option or applicant other than Aldi/Lidl/supermarket.

As per snotboogie, it'd be great to have some type of office/apartment/hotel development, with (if I can dream a little) a pedestrian walkway from the new development to both shopping centers (i.e. you could walk from the Dunnes side to Tesco).
A pipe dream I know, but would love to see it done right.

beer enigma

JohnK wrote: »

Yeah after they declined Lidl, it'd be very surprising if the didnt decline an Aldi which is pretty much just across the road. Especially if they start bringing traffic into the equation, with the queues that can build up outside McDonalds having an Aldi opening onto the same small bit of road would be madness.

Aldi application is signed and sealed, final approval has been made already. there's a further application in to make changes for the off sales area, but the Aldi with 6 (I think) small retail units attached has gone through.

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

Aldi application is signed and sealed, final approval has been made already. there's a further application in to make changes for the off sales area, but the Aldi with 6 (I think) small retail units attached has gone through.

So did the Lidl one but An Bord Pleanala refused it on appeal. This will also be likely appealed to ABP and if they are any way consistent it should also be refused.

snotboogie

munstermagic11 wrote: »

whisky_galore wrote: »

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

I'd like something other than another food store, but the cinema was either making a loss or the owner was putting no cash into the upkeep; it was in a poor state and seems to be getting worse.
Issue may be that there isn't another option or applicant other than Aldi/Lidl/supermarket.

As per snotboogie, it'd be great to have some type of office/apartment/hotel development, with (if I can dream a little) a pedestrian walkway from the new development to both shopping centers (i.e. you could walk from the Dunnes side to Tesco).
A pipe dream I know, but would love to see it done right.

I have heard rumors that the overhead link was planned pre recession, with another shopping centre rather than a mixed use development on the cinema site. I've never seen a reputable source report it so take that for what it's worth.

beer enigma

namloc1980 wrote: »

So did the Lidl one but An Bord Pleanala refused it on appeal. This will also be likely appealed to ABP and if they are any way consistent it should also be refused.

Very unlikely, the Aldi application was approved unconditionally in 2011 and totally unopposed, it was further extended in 2017, again unconditional approval with no appeals and the off licence extension was given approval with a few conditions on 21st March. Big difference here is that its a mixed development with 3 additional retail units (I thought it was 6 but was wrong).

Cork County council planning 184201

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

Very unlikely, the Aldi application was approved unconditionally in 2011 and totally unopposed, it was further extended in 2017, again unconditional approval with no appeals and the off licence extension was given approval with a few conditions on 21st March. Big difference here is that its a mixed development with 3 additional retail units (I thought it was 6 but was wrong).

Cork County council planning 184201

Yeah see that now, thanks. Very poor development nonetheless. For such a central location a concrete bunker surrounded by a sea of car parking is just so unimaginative. County council have zero idea how to develop an urban landscape.

kub

namloc1980 wrote:

Yeah see that now, thanks. Very poor development nonetheless. For such a central location a concrete bunker surrounded by a sea of car parking is just so unimaginative. County council have zero idea how to develop an urban landscape.

Cork County Council are only experienced in looking after rural areas where grass grows in the middle of roads.
They have no idea of traffic management or urban areas.

Therefore Cork City Council, taking over the Douglas area cannot surely be a bad thing compared to what was there before them.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

Cork County Council are only experienced in looking after rural areas where grass grows in the middle of roads.

What an ignorant viewpoint.

kub

Maximilian Early Zen wrote:

What an ignorant viewpoint.

It's true though.

Where are the worst traffic jams in Cork?

Ignorance it is not.
It's a bloody fact

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

It's true though.

Where are the worst traffic jams in Cork?

Ignorance it is not.
It's a bloody fact

The County Council keeps giving the go ahead for huge new estates without building any new roads in the outskirts. The lack of road density causes huge traffic.

Compare this to the grid system put in place in Togher and Ballyphehane where there are no traffic issues.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

It's a bloody fact

No it's not. And ignorant sums it up.

j8wk2feszrnpao

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The County Council keeps giving the go ahead for huge new estates without building any new roads in the outskirts. The lack of road density causes huge traffic.

Compare this to the grid system put in place in Togher and Ballyphehane where there are no traffic issues.

I don't claim that the County Council are without fault.
But to suggest they can only manage rural areas with boreen type roads, is highly ignorant given the prosperity enjoyed by so many with the industrial areas they have managed (and again, not without some fault in that as well). It's just small minded and pathetic really.

kub

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The County Council keeps giving the go ahead for huge new estates without building any new roads in the outskirts. The lack of road density causes huge traffic.

Compare this to the grid system put in place in Togher and Ballyphehane where there are no traffic issues.

Of course we also have to consider when Ballyphehane and Togher were constructed, way back in the 60's / 70's, there were certainly not many cars on the roads back then.

Also Cork City Council did object to that O'Flynn construction housing development going ahead in Glanmire, one which the County Council had no objections to. The City Council felt that the necessary infrastructure should have been in situ before the development started, the County obviously did not mind, there is a pure example of how the County operates.

kub

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't claim that the County Council are without fault.
But to suggest they can only manage rural areas with boreen type roads, is highly ignorant given the prosperity enjoyed by so many with the industrial areas they have managed (and again, not without some fault in that as well). It's just small minded and pathetic really.

Those industrial areas hugging the City is it?
Have you ever heard of the traffic chaos in Little Island, another fine example of the County Councils management of traffic.

They excel at managing borreens because that is all they are capable of, as there is little or no traffic.

Still not small minded and pathetic though, its factual.

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

Of course we also have to consider when Ballyphehane and Togher were constructed, way back in the 60's / 70's, there were certainly not many cars on the roads back then.

Also Cork City Council did object to that O'Flynn construction housing development going ahead in Glanmire, one which the County Council had no objections to. The City Council felt that the necessary infrastructure should have been in situ before the development started, the County obviously did not mind, there is a pure example of how the County operates.

That development is nuts. Gonna be traffic chaos. Ditto the 400 houses going up in Carrigaline which is already a traffic disaster.

kub

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That development is nuts. Gonna be traffic chaos. Ditto the 400 houses going up in Carrigaline which is already a traffic disaster.

And the common denominator is Cork County Council :rolleyes:

Roger Hassenforder

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The County Council keeps giving the go ahead for huge new estates without building any new roads in the outskirts. The lack of road density causes huge traffic.

Compare this to the grid system put in place in Togher and Ballyphehane where there are no traffic issues.

They were in the County when they were built...
Just saying

http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/mapsimages/corkinoldmaps/1964osimapofcorkcity/1964OS_8500px.pdf

Traffic in Cork isnt too bad , theres horrors in all our cities now. Galway is a fcukin absolute mare. Dublin even worse. City & County Councils are scraping out of the same empty pot as each other for capital grants from DOT, national primary roads are TII funded, so they had no choice in the road. Our ****e roads are a function of our politicians.

Monard is held up apparently because TII wont commit funds to upgrade Mallow Rd.

Roger Hassenforder

kub wrote: »

Of course we also have to consider when Ballyphehane and Togher were constructed, way back in the 60's / 70's, there were certainly not many cars on the roads back then.

Also Cork City Council did object to that O'Flynn construction housing development going ahead in Glanmire, one which the County Council had no objections to. The City Council felt that the necessary infrastructure should have been in situ before the development started, the County obviously did not mind, there is a pure example of how the County operates.

City Council were only after the development contributions.

What exactly is your problem with the County Council? Are you working for them and passed over for a promotion, or turned down for a job/planning application. Your hostility is tiresome its so repetitive.

kub

I note from that historic map you linked to that in actual fact Ballyphehane was within the City boundary and built.

Togher was only fields and in the County area, it is indicated that the red line was the proposed new City/ County boundary in 1965.

You will find that most of the housing in Togher was built after 1965.
Therefore when that housing was complete it would have been within the new Cork City boundary.

kub

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

City Council were only after the development contributions.

Is that all? Really though? I think that point has been discussed elsewhere.

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

What exactly is your problem with the County Council? Are you working for them and passed over for a promotion, or turned down for a job/planning application. Your hostility is tiresome its so repetitive.

I am actually laughing that you mentioned the word working in regard to the County Council.
The word employed would be more appropriate there I feel as with all other local authorities.
The word work might suggest people might get stressed or even break into a sweat, I cannot imagine too many local authority employees getting like that.

So your theory is incorrect, I am not employed by them neither have I any desire to be.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

Those industrial areas hugging the City is it?
Have you ever heard of the traffic chaos in Little Island, another fine example of the County Councils management of traffic.

They excel at managing borreens because that is all they are capable of, as there is little or no traffic.

Still not small minded and pathetic though, its factual.

Where else would they hug? Should they built between Fermoy and Mitchelstown, to make travel more difficult for people? Don’t be so stupid.

And yes, you are being small minded, pathetic and juvenile.
You appear to have a grudge, and it’s showing constantly.