Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

That article is gas.. they basically say because they have Simeone to stay next year that means they have convinced Griezmann to stay too

The Sun's article is taken from a Delaney article, who said that it's difficult deal to work because of the Spanish taxes and that. Yeah as if trying to get Lewandowski to sign is going to be easier. Where did you see that about the taxes..

I think it was sport witness that had the article on the taxes.It has a lot to do with players having the right to move club once a valuation is met.Clubs were seen as making the process too complex with their tax rules.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

And in what world Lewandowski is more easy to sign player?

I don't know. I personally don't believe this one - but that doesn't mean Man United don't, for some reason, consider RL and easier player to sign than Griezman - or that that is simply what United are currently briefing to the media.

Knowing Miguel I simply don't believe he has made this story up out of thin air - he may be getting poor information from his sources, they may be deliberately misleading him - but I simply don't think he is making it up himself.

I don't think you can become chief football writer at any major establishment now by being someone with a track record of making stories up.

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

I think it was sport witness that had the article on the taxes.It has a lot to do with players having the right to move club once a valuation is met.Clubs were seen as making the process too complex with their tax rules.

The issue was more to do with personal tax and a vaugueness in the rules.

Firstly, the release clauses didn't state VAT was included (though from a club point of view I think VAT is ignorable/can be written off) so if At. Madrid wanted to they could ask for the VAT on top of the release fee. This is more so the case because the release fees actually only apply to spanish clubs. United, for example, have no right to execute a standard spanish release fee.

What generally could happen was the player could buy out their contract for the release fee - but would do this with money paid to them by the buying club. The issue there would be that if, as another example, Herrera personally bought out his contract for 30million, and United gave him 30million, Herrera would have to pay tax on that sum from United - so United would effectively have to give Herrera enough money so that the 30million he 'spent' would be covered by the post tax money United gave him - a lot more than 30million.

it is why you can still see clubs paying more than a release fee as it makes the process smoother if you aren't seen as trying to screw over the selling club.

I've not read what the Spanish authorities have changed recently.

beno619

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If we signed Greizman I reckon it would be Mata that dropped out of the side, with Greizman taking his spot on the right side of the attack. Rest of the team set up remaining the same.

I dont think we should sign Greizman unless he is going to play out wide.

I dont see where Pogba fits into this side he's inferior to Miki & Mata at #10 and flattering to deceive in a box to box role.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't know. I personally don't believe this one - but that doesn't mean Man United don't, for some reason, consider RL and easier player to sign than Griezman - or that that is simply what United are currently briefing to the media.

Knowing Miguel I simply don't believe he has made this story up out of thin air - he may be getting poor information from his sources, they may be deliberately misleading him - but I simply don't think he is making it up himself.

I don't think you can become chief football writer at any major establishment now by being someone with a track record of making stories up.

Few years back some times journalist picked up the story on twitter and published it on their site, then everyone knew they were duped. It was a twitter trick. Those journalists had way more reputation that Delaney.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/9938296/The-Times-newspaper-apologises-after-it-is-admits-to-being-duped-over-multi-billion-Dream-Football-League.html

No one is idiot enough to believe Lewandowski is gettable than Griezmann, a club who has history of selling players and player who is talking about move Vs a club who were not bullied by anyone and among the top 3 in the world, a player who has just signed contract.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The issue was more to do with personal tax and a vaugueness in the rules.

Firstly, the release clauses didn't state VAT was included (though from a club point of view I think VAT is ignorable/can be written off) so if At. Madrid wanted to they could ask for the VAT on top of the release fee. This is more so the case because the release fees actually only apply to spanish clubs. United, for example, have no right to execute a standard spanish release fee.

What generally could happen was the player could buy out their contract for the release fee - but would do this with money paid to them by the buying club. The issue there would be that if, as another example, Herrera personally bought out his contract for 30million, and United gave him 30million, Herrera would have to pay tax on that sum from United - so United would effectively have to give Herrera enough money so that the 30million he 'spent' would be covered by the post tax money United gave him - a lot more than 30million.

it is why you can still see clubs paying more than a release fee as it makes the process smoother if you aren't seen as trying to screw over the selling club.

I've not read what the Spanish authorities have changed recently.

That's it.Basically the tax issue was seen as an obstacle used by clubs to prevent or make moves by players difficult. Potential transfers fell apart due to this but it's been done away with now and should make transfers more straightforward.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Ive said my piece on Pogba and stand by it. He was awful overall. Nothing to do with looking for someone to blame or judging it on a late miss by him.

Havn't really chimed in on the result at the weekend, when drawing with cannon fodder at home becomes no longer a surprise, it's really bad. So again all the positivity created by the team just get's hacked at the knees.

I missed the second half, but all accounts (that I respect) seem to indicate Pogba was terrible, lost his head and was just a total waste. He really needs to learn we don't want the moon and stars from him, that he just needs to keep it simple.

Granted he is a total waste in a midfield 2 so it's not all his fault, but he needs to just get back to basics, and leave the one man army stuff out of the way for a while.

Team is just not scoring enough goals outside of Ibrahimovic. It's pathetic

TheDoc

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Massive chance for Rashford to cement a place in the team mong term.

I've no doubt Ibra will slot straight back in once the ban is server, but the next few games will give us an idea if Rashford is up to the challenge of leading the line.

Big pressure to put on a teenager playing a bit part role this season, and when he has played it being out wide.

Could succumb to trying to impress to easily and it being poor performances. Hopefully he gets just simple instructions and its kept simple. Just keep within the width of the posts centrally and just keep getting in the box.

deaddonkey15

Griezmann isn't really the solution to our problem though which is failing to beat the likes of Hull, Burnley and Bournemouth at home. Maybe he could provide some individual skill to that would turn some of those draws into wins but at the moment we already have the players that are capable of beating those sides by 2 or 3 goals. Personally, I think we have a squad capable of winning the league if not putting in a serious challenge. Signing Griezman won't suddenly make us click into a cohesive free flowing unit. In fact, I fear it may have the opposite effect where we will have 3 superstars who will play no matter what and the rest are merely a supporting cast that is fit around them. Less opportunities for Mata, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Lingard.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Griezman at the club but I don't think he's the solution to our current problem. Someone posted here at the weekend that Pogba is an "icing on the cake" kind of player and I agree. I think Griezman would fall under the same category unless we learn how to become a ruthless team again. If we have Griezman in our side next year and our attacking plan still revolves around trying to get Valencia into a good position for a cross or Pogba sending balls over the top from midfield then I fear we'll have a similar season to this one.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Personally, I think we have a squad capable of winning the league if not putting in a serious challenge.

I used to think so too, but when do we seriously start to wonder if we have prettiest wife at home syndrome, and that a lot of our players actually don't have what it takes to make us real contenders?

You talk of a cohesive free flowing unit, if there is one thing that has improved this season it is the cohesiveness and the interplay between the players on the field. It is clear to me that in terms of coaching we have improved immeasurably from the last three seasons, our shape is better, our passing is better, in so many ways what we see on the field is better than it was.

Yet we keep ****ing up and failing to put away chances. It isn't the coaching, its the players, its the Matas and Lingards and Rooneys that have had years in the team but still aren't bringing us forward.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yet we keep ****ing up and failing to put away chances. It isn't the coaching, its the players, its the Matas and Lingards and Rooneys that have had years in the team but still aren't bringing us forward.

Couldn't agree more.

At some stage, you can keep giving the same tools to managers, getting the same results and then blaming the managers. You have to look at the tools. Thats not excusing Moyes and LVG (the latter of which got to buy plenty of his own tools to work with).

Its why I really am hoping Jose just guts a chunk of the squad...

duffman13

Mkhitaryan is back thankfully, Schweinsteiger is out with injury and Bailly suspended

UNITED'S TRAVELLING SQUAD IN FULL (v Rostov)

De Gea, Romero, O'Hara; Valencia, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Blind, Darmian, Young; Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Pogba, Mata, Lingard, Mkhitaryan; Martial, Rashford, Ibrahimovic.

Edit: Shaw and Rooney not travelled with no reason specified for there omission

Mitch Connor

Rooney not in that travelling list either.

duffman13

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Rooney not in that travelling list either.

Jaysis I missed that. No Shaw either

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

At some stage, you can keep giving the same tools to managers, getting the same results and then blaming the managers. You have to look at the tools. Thats not excusing Moyes and LVG (the latter of which got to buy plenty of his own tools to work with).

Its why I really am hoping Jose just guts a chunk of the squad...

He doesn't need to gut the chunk of the squad for the majority we are ok defensively I've not too much problems we need players to finish more regularly ibra is doing fine but when he has an off day we have no goals from anywhere else.

The weekend pogba should of been further forward so I think we need a good solid midfield base like carvalho or whoever that can allow him to do what he does best just float around edge of box and darting runs in and not worry about sitting deep.

then we need goals from wide areas martial can supply them as can rashford and Miki from behind striker but not regular enough we need what chelsea have with hazzard but on the right and that's someone like Griezman even tho he is different then hazzard but he will still score from wide positions or someone that can do that job.

Long term id say jessie aint good enough and rooney is shipped out but apart from that everyone else more or less has a role to fill.

Minderbinder

Maybe Rooney will be replacing Zlatan during the suspension?

RobertKK

I know some wonder where Griezmann would fit in, using current back 4, though we will have new player(s) here.
I think a 4-3-3 like this

---

De Gea

---

current back 4
New CDM
Herrera - Pogba
---Mkhitaryan---
Griezmann-Ibrahimovic

So the 4-3-3 would be a 4-1-2-1-2.

jayo26

Minderbinder wrote: »

Maybe Rooney will be replacing Zlatan during the suspension?

Trigger

RobertKK wrote: »

I know some wonder where Griezmann would fit in, using current back 4, though we will have new player(s) here.
I think a 4-3-3 like this

---

De Gea

---

current back 4
New CDM
Herrera - Pogba
---Mkhitaryan---
Griezmann-Ibrahimovic

So the 4-3-3 would be a 4-1-2-1-2.

The only way Griezmann would fit in properly would be in a 4231 behind the front man or a 433 with him as the right wide forward which would mean 2 of Rashford Martial and Mkhi miss out if Zlatan plays up top. Would get the best out of both him and Pogba I think as it would allow Pogba to play in his best position on the left side with Herrera on the right. And a new DM behind them

Donnielighto

astradave wrote: »

The only way Griezmann would fit in properly would be in a 4231 behind the front man or a 433 with him as the right wide forward which would mean 2 of Rashford Martial and Mkhi miss out if Zlatan plays up top. Would get the best out of both him and Pogba I think as it would allow Pogba to play in his best position on the left side with Herrera on the right. And a new DM behind them

That's a fine situation. Ibra should be asked to play as much as this season and well need options for injury bench etc.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

3 game ban for Ibra.

Jayop

Expected and deserved. I still think he was right to do it.

Cookie_Dough

Pheonix10 wrote: »

3 game ban for Ibra.

I see Mings and Bournemouth are appealing his charge :rolleyes: At least it's only 3 games and hopefully Rashford or Rooney can step up in his absence.

Jayop

Rooney not travelling tells me that he's being rested for the game on Monday. Maybe.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

Rooney not travelling tells me that he's being rested for the game on Monday. Maybe.

Id say he is just not needed he was rested for two weeks before the last game.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

Id say he is just not needed he was rested for two weeks before the last game.

Can't see us going into the Chelsea game without him when Ibra is out for it.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

Can't see us going into the Chelsea game without him when Ibra is out for it.

Im sure he will be included somewhere against Chelsea i just dont think he is needed in Russia. He is only 31 he dont need that much resting.

Lucas Hood

Jayop wrote: »

Can't see us going into the Chelsea game without him when Ibra is out for it.

He was left out last time Zlatan was suspended against Arsenal.

jayo26

The actual cheek of Mings to appeal against any punishment its gas. I fully accept Zlatan punishment it was 100 percent deserved just the same way the elbow was.

Jayop

Lucas Hood wrote: »

He was left out last time Zlatan was suspended against Arsenal.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Cookie_Dough

jayo26 wrote: »

The actual cheek of Mings to appeal against any punishment its gas. I fully accept Zlatan punishment it was 100 percent deserved just the same way the elbow was.

I agree. Mings's general demeanour is pretty sickening IMO. Even in his post match interview when asked about it he was laughing it off with a big smug head on him. Such arrogance.

jayo26

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I agree. Mings's general demeanour is pretty sickening IMO. Even in his post match interview when asked about it he was laughing it off with a big smug head on his. Such arrogance.

I hope he gets a longer ban but I can't see it happening. He might get six but he should get longer if his stud had to catch his eye he could of been blinded.

jayo26

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRV9f4NjwQw/

Nice to see memories of an old fans favourite

Nalz

#lurkers

Pro. F

Lord TSC wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

At some stage, you can keep giving the same tools to managers, getting the same results and then blaming the managers. You have to look at the tools. Thats not excusing Moyes and LVG (the latter of which got to buy plenty of his own tools to work with).

Its why I really am hoping Jose just guts a chunk of the squad...

For this season we brought in four new first XI level players - Ibra, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Baily - spending £150m in the process. Last season we brought in three - Darmian, Schneiderlin and Martial - spending around £70m. The season before that we brought in three - Di Maria, Shaw and Herrera - spending around £115m. All this doesn't include the squad level players brought in in those years.

To describe the above as "keeping on giving the same tools to managers" is completely wrong.

Nalz

You are so right pro f

beno619

Jayop wrote: »

Expected and deserved. I still think he was right to do it.

It was an idiotic thing for him to do.

He could have taken Mings aside or call him out on the pitch.

jayo26

With the Zlatan ban chances are it has little effect. With the trip to Russia Im not very confident of beating Chelsea anyway so scratch that and he maybe of been rested for one of the premier league games anyway so it's really only a one match ban......

#choochoo #positivehat

jayo26

I wonder what's the contract status of dries mertens he is having another fantastic season.

DM_7

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Griezmann isn't really the solution to our problem though which is failing to beat the likes of Hull, Burnley and Bournemouth at home. Maybe he could provide some individual skill to that would turn some of those draws into wins but at the moment we already have the players that are capable of beating those sides by 2 or 3 goals. Personally, I think we have a squad capable of winning the league if not putting in a serious challenge. Signing Griezman won't suddenly make us click into a cohesive free flowing unit. In fact, I fear it may have the opposite effect where we will have 3 superstars who will play no matter what and the rest are merely a supporting cast that is fit around them. Less opportunities for Mata, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Lingard.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Griezman at the club but I don't think he's the solution to our current problem. Someone posted here at the weekend that Pogba is an "icing on the cake" kind of player and I agree. I think Griezman would fall under the same category unless we learn how to become a ruthless team again. If we have Griezman in our side next year and our attacking plan still revolves around trying to get Valencia into a good position for a cross or Pogba sending balls over the top from midfield then I fear we'll have a similar season to this one.

The actual attacking play used on Saturday provided plenty of goal chances overall, in particular during the first half. The attacking ideas you mention were not the key features of the game Saturday.

Imagine Griezmann put in behind like Rooney in the first half, he would be straight through to a one on one with keeper, not getting caught up on and looking for a pass. He would have more composure than Pogba when he got in behind.

United need need finishers to add to the good play that is creating good chances. They also need a protector to reduce the chances they give away.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

I wonder what's the contract status of dries mertens he is having another fantastic season.

Hasn't he only got a year left on his contract now.. I know he is like Griezmann and doesn't have an agent as such.. cracking player

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Hasn't he only got a year left on his contract now.. I know he is like Griezmann and doesn't have an agent as such.. cracking player

He is unreal in my ultimate team anyway ha.

Always seems to be on the scores sheet for napoli.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

He is unreal in my ultimate team anyway ha.

Always seems to be on the scores sheet for napoli.

He just helped Ramos to beat the Napoli keeper too

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

He just helped Ramos to beat the Napoli keeper too

Unbelievable jeff

bangkok

arsenal lol

jayo26

Sanchez seems to be enjoying the Arsenal performance a bit too much ha.. The giggles of him on the bench.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Sanchez just half assing the last few games for Arsenal... dunno do we need a character like that in the changing room

ElChe32

Someone will die tonight on Arsenal Fans TV...get the popcorn.

Trigger

MrMac84 wrote: »

Sanchez just half assing the last few games for Arsenal... dunno do we need a character like that in the changing room

Looked the only player busting a gut to get the ball and make things happen in the first half anyways.. turned the other game on for the second half so can't comment on that

paulbok

Is it March already?