Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

secman

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

give the lad a break, everyone expects him to be this amazing ****, united are still adjusting to mhou, he is still 23 thats a **** ton of pressure, I'll judge him towards the end of his tenure with us not near the start

Yes he is 23 not 18.. the more I see him I'm thinking we were mugged, just don't think he's the brightest, unfortunately. When he played with Juve he had a hugely intelligent player alongside him, maybe he just was never as good as he looked . Hopefully he proves me wrong.. but really needs a huge improvement on this season.

Iused2likebusts

jambofc wrote: »

anyone really think that Pogba was worth anywhere near a world record fee ?
I dont if we got him for maybe €45 million then ok but he has shown nothing to warrant his record fee.

I don't think utd care about the fee. I think they wanted to break the record as part of the business plan and were happy enough to pay over the odds.

raze_them_all_

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

give the lad a break, everyone expects him to be this amazing ****, united are still adjusting to mhou, he is still 23 thats a **** ton of pressure, I'll judge him towards the end of his tenure with us not near the start

I actually agree with you in the long term. But it's still OK to be critical of his current performances IMO

GSPfan

The idea that he is only 23 and therefore very young is not a good arguement. He has all the experience a player can have and 23 is a good age to be expecting solid performances.

Yes the fee seems inflated now but even though I'm a critic of Pogba I still couldn't care less what they paid for him. Not my money. I'm glad we have him and it'll be ten years before we know if it was a good investment.

Buying Rooney for £30 million turned out to be an absolute steal when you look back on what he achieved. So forget about the money for now is what I say.

fuzzydunlop85

I think at the moment it's fair to say at the moment we've paid massively over the odds for Pogba, but as others have said we need to judge him at the end of his tenure. Hoping Mourihno can get someone in to compliment him next season in midfield, a destroyer / ball winner that will let him play a big further up the pitch. Some things I've been disappointed in his finishing. Doesn't seem to be able to keep a calm head in front of goal at all, seems to be always off balance or something.

Lord TSC

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Some things I've been disappointed in his finishing. Doesn't seem to be able to keep a calm head in front of goal at all, seems to be always off balance or something.

I put that down to an overeagerness to live up to his worth. You see it in him how desperately he wants to score and be that world class player, but that can cloud his decision making as a result.

I don't worry about "overpaying"; I would still believe that we got a world class player who, in years to come, will pay back that fee. The reality is the market has massively inflated a lot of fees now; anyone considered young and with potential now goes for 40m+, and its obvious Pogba has more potential than most.

I remember the critique being leveled that he was a vanity player when United probably needed to rebuild its foundation, but I've no doubt than he will grow into an absolute monster for us, and am very, very glad we have him.

raze_them_all_

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

give the lad a break, everyone expects him to be this amazing ****, united are still adjusting to mhou, he is still 23 thats a **** ton of pressure, I'll judge him towards the end of his tenure with us not near the start

He didn't have much of a break after the euros as well so he could be tired and he has played most of the games this season!

bucketybuck

Somebody tell Harry Kane that he is only 23 and that he doesn't need to be playing well yet...

I don't like this "only 23" excuse for Pogba, 23 is young but he is still a grown man, an adult, and more than that a man who has played in Champions league finals, European cup finals and won multiple Italian league titles.

He has over 200 senior club appearances, 44 international caps, I think we can expect a little bit more for our money even if he is "only" 23.

GSPfan

Agreed. "Only 23" quickly turns into "Nearly 25".

GSPfan

I just checked, he's 24 on Wednesday. Will he be "Only 24" after that?!

jayo26

He is having an average season we expect more but what's the point in panicking?

I'm not worried about Pogba he has so much time in front of him if he aint doing alot better next season id be concerned.

It could be a mixture of the team setup or fatigue but he still has a good few goals and some assists and bit of luck he would of had alot more goals and assists.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Somebody tell Harry Kane that he is only 23 and that he doesn't need to be playing well yet...

I don't like this "only 23" excuse for Pogba, 23 is young but he is still a grown man, an adult, and more than that a man who has played in Champions league finals, European cup finals and won multiple Italian league titles.

He has over 200 senior club appearances, 44 international caps, I think we can expect a little bit more for our money even if he is "only" 23.

I've got a few issues with the comparison, even if I do accept the point.

Kane has a settled team that is built around him, has had three years to settle into said team and, imo, is an abnormality of a player. He is, for my money, a world class striker. He also, again imo, if he were to be sold would go for a good 50% more than Pogba as well; I couldn't see Spurs parting with him for anything less than 120m in the current market. As great as I think Pogba is, Kane is very obviously in a bracket ahead of him, and comparing Pogba to Kane, even ignoring the fact they play very different positions and roles in the team, is like comparing a gold watch to a diamond one.

"He's only 23" is not the only excuse for Pogba, but it does need to be taken on board that he's realistically come into the PL for the first time, and has been put into a team that's redeveloping and rebuilding it's foundation. The team is not built around Pogba (it's built around Ibrahimovic currently, rightly or wrongly), and his role in the midfield seems to shift based on the fact the rest of the midfield has weaknesses scattered through it; he is often expected to be a midfield general, defensively solid but also an assist machine, while also scoring, etc etc.

Where his age comes into things, again imo, is that we paid what we paid for the contributions he's going to make over a few years, not just one. Again, I do concede that we could have expected or done with more of a contribution this year. But why I refuse to criticise the amount we paid, and why I roll my eyes at people trying to call him a dud 10 months into a 23 year old's career with us, is that it was very obviously an investment with short AND long term repercussions.

I think we have many far, far bigger problems than Pogba; there are players who are way too fond of being anonymous game after game, and I would rather focus on them than a guy who is busting his gut and being too over-eager in his desire to preform well. I believe that with a proper summer's rest, a continuation of our transfer window last summer and a year's experience, I'd have faith he will step up big time next year.

If he doesn't, then I'll start to get annoyed at the fee. But when I take on the mitigating factors, all things considered, I'm happy with his performance over the season. Not ecstatic, and not calling it world class. But happy, especially relative to other players this season.

GSPfan

I just wish Jose took Pogba (and Zlatan) off when they are playing awful. Leaving Pogba on the pitch when he is struggling only exaggerates the problem. No harm in being substituted for tactical reasons if a game is not suiting him. Liverpool game being a perfect example.

adox

GSPfan wrote: »

I just wish Jose took Pogba (and Zlatan) off when they are playing awful. Leaving Pogba on the pitch when he is struggling only exaggerates the problem. No harm in being substituted for tactical reasons if a game is not suiting him. Liverpool game being a perfect example.

See I kind of agree but not so much with Zlatan. Two different positions and even if Zlatan is having an awful game he's still a good bet to produce one moment and get you a goal. That's his main job in the team.

I also think the money is relevant as Utd have wasted so much money on the last three years. It's always worth the question are we getting relative value for money or even are the players good enough. We are all looking for Utd to build another legacy or at least be a team challenging for the major honours again. After spending £300 million or whatever it was we are still a few players short of that.

Spending a world record fee on Pogba well may turn out to be a great buy but I'm still of the opinion that the money should have been spent elsewhere in the team first. Build the team from the foundations before buying a player like Pogba to add to the team. I'm surprised Jose hasn't tried to turn him into a different player than he is. More disciplined, more responsibility, more of a traditional midfielder. Despite my moaning about him on here I think he is hugely talented and has the potential to be a traditional midfielder or box to box player if coached right.

He doesn't seem the brightest in a footballing sense. Of course he has a great appreciation of the game when the ball is at his feet. It's when he doesn't have the ball that is my major worry. I think he is causing the team more problems than solutions at the moment. We don't have the players around him to indulge him.

Of course there are plenty of other players in the team who we have to look at too but I'm always most concerned about the heartbeat of the team - the middle of the pitch. I really hope when Jose buys his DM in the summer that it all clicks into place and Pogba shines next season.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

I'm not worried about Pogba he has so much time in front of him if he aint doing alot better next season id be concerned.

I'm worried tbh.

He's an infirior midfielder to Herrera and Mata and Mikhitaryan are far far more effective in advanced midfield roles.

I'm worried about building a team around a player who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere.

There's some serious mental gymnastics going on to justify his performances which have been poor - underwhelming.

He should be delivering full stop.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

I'm worried tbh.

He's an infirior midfielder to Herrera and Mata and Mikhitaryan are far far more effective in advanced midfield roles.

I'm worried about building a team around a player who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere.

There's some serious mental gymnastics going on to justify his performances which have been poor - underwhelming.

He should be delivering full stop.

Its not a case of justifying his performance its just a case of some people will wait to judge a player long term before worrying.

Why worry? What's that going to achieve?

I loved watching pogba in loads of games this year I was at the saints game when he made his debut and even then when he played in the second half of that game on the left of midfield in a more advanced role I think it was Fellaini behind him well he shone out in that game for me and a few more games he has too when the team is setup around him.

Pogba is in noway inferior to mata and ander he is a total different type of player then both them. Ander is a runner and closes opponent down and slows games down he does not contribute near as much as pogba does in attacks and Visa versa with mata he scores more but defensively you dont want mata tracking back because he dont contribute anyway that pogba can.

It's not a case of building a team around pogba its just a case of having a solid defensive midfielder on the team where pogba doesn't have to be played deep and he can go do what he does best.

Quandary

I think Pogba just needs to be part of a midfield three where he has more freedom and less defensive responsibility than the other two midfielders. He is a flashy skilful player who's talents are best utilised when he has a free role in midfield IMO. If we are expecting him to turn into this disciplined box to box midfielder ala Viera then we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. Perhaps he might evolve into that type of player as he matures but right now he is not cut out for it.

If Mourinho goes out and buys a midfielder like Kante/Wanyama, possibly Carvalho or someone of his ilk to play the deepest of three alongside Pog and Ander I honestly think we would see Pogba start to flourish.

Carrick was working in that role to a certain extent but he is declining and IMO no longer plays at the level we need.

RobertKK

Watching the match between Shanghai and Tianjin, the Chinese super league is a definite threat to European football, very entertaining game. Didn't know Sky Sports was showing the matches live until I came across it. Also better attendance than a Man City home game...

Pogba's fee is going to look cheap with all the Chinese money that is there.

LiamoSail

RobertKK wrote: »

Watching the match between Shanghai and Tianjin, the Chinese super league is a definite threat to European football, very entertaining game. Didn't know Sky Sports was showing the matches live until I came across it. Also better attendance than a Man City home game...

Pogba's fee is going to look cheap with all the Chinese money that is there.

Tbf to City, both Tianjin and Shanghai have a slightly greater population pool

bangkok

i get the feeling all those who are criticizing pogba didnt watch him much when he was at Juventus.

for a lad that a few on here are saying is having a poor season, 7 goals and 4 assists, i cant wait until he has a good season!!

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

i get the feeling all those who are criticizing pogba didnt watch him much when he was at Juventus.

for a lad that a few on here are saying is having a poor season, 7 goals and 4 assists, i cant wait until he has a good season!!

Pogbas form at Juve has absolutely nothing to do with his form at United

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Pogbas form at Juve has absolutely nothing to do with his form at United

pogba will never be able to win with some fans, if he plays well ye will be saying he should be playing well. if he plays bad, its a waste of 90m.

i personally wouldnt swap him for any other midfielder in the world

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pogbas form at Juve has absolutely nothing to do with his form at United

He aint comparing form he is comparing styles what he is saying is people are expecting things from him that he never did at juve.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

i get the feeling all those who are criticizing pogba didnt watch him much when he was at Juventus.

for a lad that a few on here are saying is having a poor season, 7 goals and 4 assists, i cant wait until he has a good season!!

Can you not just accept that people may have a different opinion to you on a player rather than looking for an angle as to why they do, boardering on condescension?

0gac3yjefb5sv7

What's people's thoughts on Mondays game? Obviously FA cup is lowest priority but would hate to lose again to them.

Lukker-

Deleted User wrote: »

Pogbas form at Juve has absolutely nothing to do with his form at United

Mou should ask for a few tips from Conte on Monday on how to play him

Lord TSC

Pheonix10 wrote: »

What's people's thoughts on Mondays game? Obviously FA cup is lowest priority but would hate to lose again to them.

Without Ibra, I have very little faith in doing anything. I think that despite results looking good on paper, we've been on poor form recently, and I'd worry they could put 2 or 3 past us.

jayo26

Ok so to compair pogba from this season to last season with juventus is actually intresting.


The only place he is down in comparison is goals scored which he has been crazy unlucky and assists which I put down to the players around him not scoring enough.

He has created more chances
He has a better pass rate
He has more key passes
He has a similar tackle rate
Similar interceotions

but yet he is having a terrible season??

J. Marston

Pheonix10 wrote: »

What's people's thoughts on Mondays game? Obviously FA cup is lowest priority but would hate to lose again to them.

Expect nothing. Even when we had brilliant teams with Ronaldo, peak Rooney, Rio, Vidic etc getting a point at Stamford Bridge would be a mini miracle. We got spanked there earlier this season. We're missing our top goalscorer. It's sandwiched between two European games.

Try to get a draw and bring it back to Old Trafford.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

J. Marston wrote: »

Expect nothing. Even when we had brilliant teams with Ronaldo, peak Rooney, Rio, Vidic etc getting a point at Stamford Bridge would be a mini miracle. We got spanked there earlier this season. We're missing our top goalscorer. It's sandwiched between two European games.

Try to get a draw and bring it back to Old Trafford.

Has to be settled on Monday so ET and pens.

J. Marston

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Has to be settled on Monday so ET and pens.

Ah, try to take it to pens so!

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

Pogba is in noway inferior to mata and ander he is a total different type of player then both them. Ander is a runner and closes opponent down and slows games down he does not contribute near as much as pogba does in attacks and Visa versa with mata he scores more but defensively you dont want mata tracking back because he dont contribute anyway that pogba can.

Herrera is a superior midfielder the fact that he's been able to change his game this season only highlights Pogba's shortcomings.

Herrera also scored a lot more goals than Pogba in his debut season with much less game time and far fewer shots.

Mata is a better #10 maybe my use of advanced midfielder was too vague.
Pogba's defensive work or lack of is infuriating.

Lord TSC

Schnederlin scoing for Everton with a nice finish.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

but yet he is having a terrible season??

Don't think anyone has said that ?

His performances over the past 2 months have been poor - underwhelming.

Do you honestly think he's been playing well ?

bucketybuck

Quandary wrote: »

If we are expecting him to turn into this disciplined box to box midfielder ala Viera then we are setting ourselves up for disappointment.

This is the core of the problem, I don't expect him to turn into a box to box midfielder but in actual fact a box to box midfielder was what we needed and we spent 90m on a player who can't really do it. That was a poor decision in my opinion.

I'm not writing Pogba off or thinking he should be sold or anything like that, but fact is no matter what the stats are we can see that he has been poor this season and that there are huge questions about his role in the team, because there are a lot of players in our squad that don't really suit a team built around Pogba.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Herrera is a superior midfielder the fact that he's been able to change his game this season only highlights Pogba's shortcomings.

Herrera also scored a lot more goals than Pogba in his debut season with much less game time and far fewer shots.

Mata is a better #10 maybe my use of advanced midfielder was too vague.
Pogba's defensive work or lack of is infuriating.

You are using every stick to try beat pogba with.

Herrera scored 8 goals for united in his debut season same number of goals as pogba has scored this season. He scored 5 the next season and 1 this season? Hardley prolific pogba on an average season this year has scored 8 so that's nonsense talk saying he scored a lot more then pogba??

Ander has not changed his game he was always a deeper midfielder that ran around the place and I'm not knocking him i love ander and think he is an excellent midfielder but he is totally different then pogba.

And again defensively if pogba is infuriating you its because he aint a defensive midfielder he has better defensive stats then he had last year at juve so he aint changed again the problem is that he is expected to play more defensive because we don't have a top quality defensive midfielder.

beno619 wrote: »

Don't think anyone has said that ?

His performances over the past 2 months have been poor - underwhelming.

Do you honestly think he's been playing well ?

I dont think he is consistently playing well nope he is average in some games but he has had some excellent games too but he is still contributing a lot to the team that people don't give him credit for im defending him now because I don't see why people should panick or worry about him as I believe he aint been as bad as people think and he will only get better.

wanderer100

Rashford's strike at 1.19 is sweeeet!!! Mata's face says it all

kona

wanderer100 wrote: »

Rashford's strike at 1.19 is sweeeet!!! Mata's face says it all

Jesus Christ Chris smalling is useless.

Nalz

Bournemouth have now​ scored more goals than us (but they've played 2 games more) in the league.

Not a stat to be proud of

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

You are using every stick to try beat pogba with.

Herrera scored 8 goals for united in his debut season same number of goals as pogba has scored this season. He scored 5 the next season and 1 this season? Hardley prolific pogba on an average season this year has scored 8 so that's nonsense talk saying he scored a lot more then pogba??

Fair enough

Ander has not changed his game he was always a deeper midfielder that ran around the place and I'm not knocking him i love ander and think he is an excellent midfielder but he is totally different then pogba.

And again defensively if pogba is infuriating you its because he aint a defensive midfielder he has better defensive stats then he had last year at juve so he aint changed again the problem is that he is expected to play more defensive because we don't have a top quality defensive midfielder.

It doesnt matter if he's a defensive midfielder or not he has to contribute when we dont have the ball. The problem is he's lazy.


I dont think he is consistently playing well nope he is average in some games but he has had some excellent games too but he is still contributing a lot to the team that people don't give him credit for im defending him now because I don't see why people should panick or worry about him as I believe he aint been as bad as people think and he will only get better.

Im not worried about Paul Pogba. Im worried about his effect on the squad and the players who might be sacrificed to build a team that "works for Paul". His big game performances have been well and truly awful, he's been a crap #10 (Both Liverpool games where he was the worst player on the pitch).

I dont see where he fits into a Mourinho system when he's an inferior box to box midfielder to Herrera and an inferior #10 to Miki and Mata.

Mars Bar

"Leave me alone, Paul. Paul, leave me alone."

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Herrera is a superior midfielder the fact that he's been able to change his game this season only highlights Pogba's shortcomings.

Herrera also scored a lot more goals than Pogba in his debut season with much less game time and far fewer shots.

Mata is a better #10 maybe my use of advanced midfielder was too vague.
Pogba's defensive work or lack of is infuriating.

herrera scored 8, pogba has 7... but ye is has a lot more goals :rolleyes:

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Im not worried about Paul Pogba. Im worried about his effect on the squad and the players who might be sacrificed to build a team that "works for Paul". His big game performances have been well and truly awful, he's been a crap #10 (Both Liverpool games where he was the worst player on the pitch).

I dont see where he fits into a Mourinho system when he's an inferior box to box midfielder to Herrera and an inferior #10 to Miki and Mata.

He is regarded as one of the best midfielders in the world and has been for a long time he is far from inferior.

You are comparing him to two out and out number 10s that dont contribute defensively at all.

Pogba will assist goals and create chances and chip in with goals too when he aint hitting the post.


He has more assists then mkhitaryan and mata put together and he has nearly the same amount of goals as mata even tho he is playing a lot deeper.. He has more chances created then any of them players.

He does track back his interceptions and tackles per game are proof of that he just ain't as good defensively as someone like Herrera but he is far superior attacking then Herrera.

If you have a midfield of defensive midfielder and mkhitaryan and mata as the 3 midfielders that's not as strong as a midfield of defensive midfielder and mkhitaryan and pogba no bloody way is it.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

herrera scored 8, pogba has 7... but ye is has a lot more goals :rolleyes:

Covered that already zerks

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

He is regarded as one of the best midfielders in the world and has been for a long time

Then why is it such a problem for people to expect more from him?

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

He is regarded as one of the best midfielders in the world and has been for a long time he is far from inferior.

You are comparing him to two out and out number 10s that dont contribute defensively at all.

Pogba will assist goals and create chances and chip in with goals too when he aint hitting the post.


He has more assists then mkhitaryan and mata put together and he has nearly the same amount of goals as mata even tho he is playing a lot deeper.. He has more chances created then any of them players.

He does track back his interceptions and tackles per game are proof of that he just ain't as good defensively as someone like Herrera but he is far superior attacking then Herrera.

If you have a midfield of defensive midfielder and mkhitaryan and mata as the 3 midfielders that's not as strong as a midfield of defensive midfielder and mkhitaryan and pogba no bloody way is it.

Eliaquim Mangala was regarded as one of the best young defenders on that planet so what ?

Mata & Miki don't contribute defensively ?

If you believe Pogba is a better midfielder the Herrera then power to you we clearly have different ideas about what the role entails.

There's no stat that will convince me he's a more effective #10 than Mata or Miki.

Im not sure why you posed such as a ridiculous midfield combo but I believe New Midfielder - Herrera
Mata/Miki

Would be more effective than

New Midfielder - Herrera
Pogba

or

New Midfielder - Pogba
Mata/Miki

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

Then why is it such a problem for people to expect more from him?

Its not a problem I don't have a problem with that but people are saying that we shouldn't build a team around him or he is infuriating defensively.

Pogba is doing what pogba has always done he is creating chances chipping in with goals. Of our forward players like Mata and Martial and rashford were more clinical we would be talking about Pogba having over 10 assists this season and a few extra goals with a bit of luck on his own side.

Is he at this moment in time an 90 million pound midfielder? No but he has loads of time on his side and with a proper defensive midfielder on the side that willow him a bit more freedom we will see a lot more from him.

The problem is that united paid 90 million for him because he is one of the most marketable players in the game and he has the potential to be a superb midfielder they didn't pay 90 million because he was the finished article.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Eliaquim Mangala was regarded as one of the best young defenders on that planet so what ?

Mata & Miki don't contribute defensively ?

If you believe Pogba is a better midfielder the Herrera then power to you we clearly have different ideas about what the role entails.

There's no stat that will convince me he's a more effective #10 than Mata or Miki.

Im not sure why you posed such as a ridiculous midfield combo but I believe New Midfielder - Herrera
Mata/Miki

Would be more effective than

New Midfielder - Herrera
Pogba

or

New Midfielder - Pogba
Mata/Miki

I just don't agree. What does ander bring to the team attacking wise that's even close to what pogba does?

Your midfield of new midfielder/ander and Miki or mata is fine if we are playing with two defensive minded Midfielders but we should very rarely need that if we have a strong defensive midfielder or else we should of just kept lvg.

And I didn't say he was more effective number 10 I don't believe he is a number 10 he is a slightly deeper creative player that can make chances for the likes of Miki and Zlatan but he can also defend if needed but he aint an out and out defensive midfielder.

If you have ander there we are more solid defensively but you loose out with chances created and goals simple as that.

I made up that midfield because u kept talking about mata and Miki and ander been superior midfielders to pogba but they aint they are totally different attacking midfielders and two of them don't go into a team together in a midfield 3.

Trigger

If we buy a new midfielder it will probably be a DM in the Makelele mould and the most logical formation and the one that we would be most likely to see would be a 433

Martial----Ibra----Mkhi
---Pogba----Herrera---

---

New DM

---

---

Defence

---

---

The Wall

---

Buy Kante win the premier league its a simple formula :pac: