Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

I know words are cheap, but fair play to Luke Shaw.

To go along with his words, it was clear that he was playing with a raised intensity when he came on last night, that he is willing to fight. That can lead to hot-headed mistakes, but he did well even if he was playing with Jose's brain.

Only for him we would have dropped 2 points last night (and for Zlatan's cool finish of course). Just like we would have gained 2 points at Goodison in December only for Fellaini's mistimed challenge late in that game (and a not-so-cool but adequte finish from Baines)

Pro. F

stankratz wrote: »

With Pro. F, I thought it was a variation of Prof, short for professor. Which wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility considering his/her low tolerance for wasted words and a keen interest in empirical evidence.

It's a variation on Professor Farnsworth because of my keen interest in Futurama. I wanted it short and "Prof F" didn't do it for me. Don't know why I put that single full-stop in there.

Hococop

Pro. F wrote: »

It's a variation on Professor Farnsworth because of my keen interest in Futurama. I wanted it short and "Prof F" didn't do it for me. Don't know why I put that single full-stop in there.

So why haven't I seen you say "good news everyone" more often

jimmytwotimes 2013

Bournemouth the b@stards, have to check their run-in to see if they'll stay ahead in GF column.

Pro. F

Hococop wrote: »

So why haven't I seen you say "good news everyone" more often

Good news everyone! There's a report on TV with some very bad news.

J. Marston

Our title chances? To shreds you say.

And top 4? To shreds you say.

Hococop

J. Marston wrote: »

Our title chances? To shreds you say.

And top 4? To shreds you say.

Sweet zombie Jesus

Cantona's Collars

Goals from our attackers in the league,only 2 more than Ibra between them all.

Mata - 6 (1400 mins)
Rashford - 3 (1330 mins)
Martial - 3 (980 mins)
Mkhitaryan - 3 (990 mins)
Rooney - 2 (1000 mins)
Lingard - 1 (940 mins)
Total - 18
Ibrahimovic - 16

Rayne Wooney

The minutes played for our attacking players paint a picture.

All of the teams ahead of us have a core of about 4 players that played around 2000+ minutes each. We just don't have a dependable selection

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

It's a variation on Professor Farnsworth because of my keen interest in Futurama. I wanted it short and "Prof F" didn't do it for me. Don't know why I put that single full-stop in there.

I wasn't far off!

That was a good day of sharing lads and ladies...



See yis all back with the pitchforks later.

Liam McPoyle

Tough love from Jose, for a player whose attitude has been questioned by a number of managers, earns the respect of said player who in turn gets a shot to redeem himself on the pitch.

Other managers that have issues with a players attitude make them train with the kids then ship them out on loan, even though he is arguably the best player in his position at the parent club and has been romping it at his loan club with his on field performances.

But José is the bastard that throws players under the bus.

That's an odd one.

I dunno about you boys but I'd take Jose's tough love over a bit of gurning and some hugging any day of the week. Its clear one is doing what's best for the club and player while the other is doing what's best for himself.

Giggsy11

I was just checking some stats (Coutinho's popped up on my twitter):

Coutinho: 4 and half seasons, 29 goals and 28 assists in 9815 mins. (172 mins per G+A)

Mata: 3 and half seasons, 27 goals and 16 assists in 7838 mins. (182 mins per G+A)

Coutinho played in a team that scored for fun and Mata played in a team that's struggling to score. One is seen as past it player and one is seen as one of the best player in the league.

jayo26

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I was just checking some stats (Coutinho's popped up on my twitter):

Coutinho: 4 and half seasons, 29 goals and 28 assists in 9815 mins. (172 mins per G+A)

Mata: 3 and half seasons, 27 goals and 16 assists in 7838 mins. (182 mins per G+A)

Coutinho played in a team that scored for fun and Mata played in a team that's struggling to score. One is seen as past it player and one is seen as one of the best player in the league.

Coutinho ain't past it

Cantona's Collars

In Fergies last season we were 7th in terms of shots on target,under Jose we are first.We were 12th for time spent in the opposition 3rd of the field, under José we are 1st.It just goes to show what better finishing of chances can do.

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

In Fergies last season we were 7th in terms of shots on target,under Jose we are first.We were 12th for time spent in the opposition 3rd of the field, under José we are 1st.It just goes to show what better finishing of chances can do.

It's true but it feels so hard to make a positive when you see the last performance against everton. We need to work on the attack big time

TitianGerm

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I was just checking some stats (Coutinho's popped up on my twitter):

Coutinho: 4 and half seasons, 29 goals and 28 assists in 9815 mins. (172 mins per G+A)

Mata: 3 and half seasons, 27 goals and 16 assists in 7838 mins. (182 mins per G+A)

Coutinho played in a team that scored for fun and Mata played in a team that's struggling to score. One is seen as past it player and one is seen as one of the best player in the league.

Surely it'd be fair to include all Mata stats for his PL time rather than just United's.

By the time he signed for United Mata was a PL veteran and well used to the league. You've included Counthio first season and a half where he was a young kid coming to a new league and was extremely inconsistent.

Also by including Mata time with Chelsea I'd say his G+A per minute would improve.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Ha thedoc's username is the biggest twist known to man kind.... ill say no more

Umaro

I think Mata is a wonderful player but his goals and assists have declined a fair bit since he left Chelsea.

2012/13 was an incredible season for him - 11 goals and 18 assists. He was solid gold in fantasy football. Then Jose moved him on the following season and he ended up being mismanaged by Moyes and LVG for 3 seasons.


(stats pic taken from the FPL site where it includes penalties earned in the assists column)

You'd wonder if he'll ever get back to that incredible form - he was sensational.

Giggsy11

emmetkenny wrote: »

Surely it'd be fair to include all Mata stats for his PL time rather than just United's.

By the time he signed for United Mata was a PL veteran and well used to the league. You've included Counthio first season and a half where he was a young kid coming to a new league and was extremely inconsistent.

Also by including Mata time with Chelsea I'd say his G+A per minute would improve.

Mata was regarded as one of the best players in the league, only after his move to ManUtd he was called as "washed up player" "past it". So I'm taking stats since his move to ManUtd.

TheDoc

Us going for Sanchez makes so much sense. Proven, established Premier League star that is consistent, hungry and a good attitude, to operate from our left flank.

Would signal Martial and Rashford just having to ply their trade for another season learning, or leave, which would be annoying. Both have the potential to be far better, especially Martial. I just see our younger players moving into squad filling roles after this summer, probably taking up the slots left by the likes of Blind who will probably go. Waste of a lovely player.

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

Us going for Sanchez makes so much sense. Proven, established Premier League star that is consistent, hungry and a good attitude, to operate from our left flank.

Would signal Martial and Rashford just having to ply their trade for another season learning, or leave, which would be annoying. Both have the potential to be far better, especially Martial. I just see our younger players moving into squad filling roles after this summer, probably taking up the slots left by the likes of Blind who will probably go. Waste of a lovely player.

I don't think Sanchez will move to ManUtd and I'm sure most clubs haev already contacted him and got the answer. He wants to stay in London, so it's either Chelsea or other league.

Lord TSC

I can't see Martial being happy with a squad role.

I'd love Sanchez, in terms of I adore his ability and attitude (that desire to win everything and fight for everything). I really wouldn't be shocked if Martial is moved on and Jose opts to get as much for him as possible to finance other moves...

sReq | uTeK

Can see Martial going to PSG. He just doesn't seem interested in the pitch.

At least Rashford looks arsed out there.

TitianGerm

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Mata was regarded as one of the best players in the league, only after his move to ManUtd he was called as "washed up player" "past it". So I'm taking stats since his move to ManUtd.

I think Rafa tried to sign Mata from Valencia when he was still at Liverpool.

To be honest i don't think many people called him washed up. Yes his best seasons may have been behind him but he can still provide 6/7 goals and 10 assists during a season. Seems like a genuinely nice guy as well

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

I can't see Martial being happy with a squad role.

I'd love Sanchez, in terms of I adore his ability and attitude (that desire to win everything and fight for everything). I really wouldn't be shocked if Martial is moved on and Jose opts to get as much for him as possible to finance other moves...

I'd actually be fine with his sale if it was to acquire an out and out left sided attacker that arrived and delivered, I'd say I'd get over it pretty quickly.

But in general, would be another waste of an immense talent. Don't know about anyone else, but I've been getting concerned at how our club is becoming a graveyard for creative/attacking players careers. Won't be long before young attacking players/strikers say thanks but no thanks to us due to how so many other players are falling by the wayside.

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

It's true but it feels so hard to make a positive when you see the last performance against everton. We need to work on the attack big time

Even in Ferguson's last season our play was so laboured.It was nothing short of a miracle that we won the league that year.Small margins and some rank bad finishing see us where we are instead we could be up there with Chelsea.
Ifs and buts though, our finishing needs to be improved to turn those small margins in our favour.

Giggsy11

emmetkenny wrote: »

I think Rafa tried to sign Mata from Valencia when he was still at Liverpool.

To be honest i don't think many people called him washed up. Yes his best seasons may have been behind him but he can still provide 6/7 goals and 10 assists during a season. Seems like a genuinely nice guy as well

Few Liverpool fans did and it was funny because he went on the create the Juanfield day.

Yeah he is one of few nice guys in PL.

Cantona's Collars

The Independent "Real will have to pay £66 million if the want De Gea".

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Even in Ferguson's last season our play was so laboured.It was nothing short of a miracle that we won the league that year.Small margins and some rank bad finishing see us where we are instead we could be up there with Chelsea.
Ifs and buts though, our finishing needs to be improved to turn those small margins in our favour.

zerks wrote: »

In Fergies last season we were 7th in terms of shots on target,under Jose we are first.We were 12th for time spent in the opposition 3rd of the field, under José we are 1st.It just goes to show what better finishing of chances can do.

Our creative play was excellent in Fergie's last season. The shot numbers weren't that high, but the quality of the chances was through the roof. The attacking play was so good and usual that the analytics community had to adjust their models to account for it. This is an interesting read about it. Even now, four years later, you hear/read analytics folks saying they're still learning things from looking at that last season under Fergie.

Your Airbag

Our remaining fixtures. Out of our 7 last EPL fixtures, 5 of them are away games, including City, Arsenal, Spurs and Southampton away. That's a very tough run in, I can't remember having such a tough run in with as many away games in recent years and thats not factoring in extra EL games.

Top four is a big big ask now and putting everything into the EL is a gamble as we haven't set the world on fire in either competitions. I have the sinking feeling Champions league football is not going to be at OT again next season unless Jose can pull one hell of a run in out of the bag.

TheDoctor

Its Europa League or bust for CL football next season.

Pro. F

Lord TSC wrote: »

I mean though, what can he do? Genuine question here; this problem has haunted us for a while now, even pre-Jose. Tonight, we tried passing it round, we tried lumping it in, tried some set pieces. I'm never sure whats the best course against teams that park the bus.

We did pass it around nicely in the first half all right, before Everton started really sitting deep. And we opened them up well a few times. That's been something I think Jose should be commended for, the nice link up and passing we see sometimes when the opposition are willing to come out and have at least a bit of a go.

With regards to what we could do differently when the opposition sit deep:

We could set up in a shape that better covers the pitch and surrounds the box. Most of the time we see a few players in the box and the rest (aside from the defenders sitting back) scattered across the pitch with big gaps between the different groups and isolated players. With a better structure we'd be better set up to win second balls or counter press if the opposition tried to pass out. We'd also have more options to link up play around the area for shots from the edge of the box, dribbles and one-twos into the box and crosses delivered from more dangerous positions.

And if we had that shape we could also go on to trying to draw the opposition out with planned backwards passing, feigning miscontrols, passing to players with their backs to goal, etc - all done in front of the opposition defence in order to find whatever might be the triggers for them to press up, cause them to do that and then take advantage of the space they leave.

beakerjoe

Well we seem to be getting better results away from home, so maybe its not as bad. We are hard to beat but we haven't beaten any of the top 6 bar Spurs this season.

the big games are hard to call, but United are capable of getting results in all the games.

Pool have the easiest on paper, but they struggle against the lower teams so maybe its not clear cut for them either.

At this point Id say only spurs are certain to get top 4 along with Chelsea. United are due a bit of luck in the goals department so Im optimistic we can get enough results to get a top 4 spot

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

Our creative play was excellent in Fergie's last season. The shot numbers weren't that high, but the quality of the chances was through the roof. The attacking play was so good and usual that the analytics community had to adjust their models to account for it. This is an interesting read about it. Even now, four years later, you hear/read analytics folks saying they're still learning things from looking at that last season under Fergie.

That was my point,we were just so clinical,we didn't create as much but what we did do was snap up pretty much any chance we got, now we are creating more chances but not finishing them.Even the woodwork seems to have a vendetta against Pogba.

Nalz

Anyone agree with this? I don't really. I wasn't estatic with his appointment but there is obvious improvement and who else was available?

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

That was my point,we were just so clinical,we didn't create as much but what we did do was snap up pretty much any chance we got, now we are creating more chances but not finishing them.Even the woodwork seems to have a vendetta against Pogba.

It was about a lot more than just being more clinical. We created much better quality chances in Fergie's last season than we do now. There's no comparison, in terms of creativity, between Fergie's last season and how relatively laboured the attacking play is now.

clubberlang12

Pro. F wrote: »

It was about a lot more than just being more clinical. We created much better quality chances in Fergie's last season than we do now. There's no comparison, in terms of creativity, between Fergie's last season and how relatively laboured the attacking play is now.

One thing i don't see getting mentioned very often when comparing the Premiership of a few years back with now is the standard of management at the lesser clubs now as compared to then. I could be wrong but i think teams are more tactically versed by the present managers when going away to a larger club and how they set themselves up to defend. An example of some of the what may have been considered struggling teams and their managers in that 2012/2013 season....

Villa - Paul Lambert
Fulham - Martin Jol
Newcastle - Alan Pardew
Norwich - Chris Houghton
QPR - 'Arry Redknapp
Reading - Nigel Adkins
Sunderland - Paolo Di Canio
Swansea - Micheal Laudrap
Wigan - Roberto Martinez

Would many football followers expect many of the above mentioned to be tactically astute enough to set out their teams away from home at the larger clubs to nullify the threat against them as we have begun to see the last season or 2?

The 2011/2012 season all bar 4 of the premier league managers were British. The 4 foreign managers were Wenger, Di Matteo (Chelsea), Martinez and Mancini. 3 of these 4 were at larger clubs.

Fast forward to this season, 11 of the 20 managers are Non-British. In my opinion we are seeing far better tactically astute foreign managers coming in that can and do set up teams better than previous regimes and are harder to break down. Add to that the extra quality of players that lower clubs can now afford to buy than before with extra tv revenue and we see that teams are stronger and set up better. That the points difference between 17th and 9th position is 9 points. to me this indicates, in general, a tighter league and improved quality in the lower clubs.

TheDoc

Kind of disagree but an interesting theory. I don't think I'm seeing anything from 10th-20th place teams that I havn't been seeing since Stoke first came up to the premier league under Pulis and laid the blueprint.

It comes in cycles for me. We are in that cycle where smaller clubs are feeling the best method is sitting deep playing counter attacking football. It's basically back to the 4-5-1 days Pulis brought that was a dark, dark time for the league in general.

There was a little change when some teams came up and tried something different, as the 4-5-1 tactic eventually just got broken down time and time again, and we started to see better ball retaining teams and more attacking teams getting promoted. It went back into a bit of a balance, and for me it has slid back into smaller teams being ultra cautious. Not even against big teams, just in general. Bouremouth as a bit of an exception in terms of how they play in general.

I don't think it's accurate to say the quality is higher in the lower clubs. I think the quality overall in the league has definitely dropped. And with less quality in the final third, it's leading to it being more difficult to break down these defensive tactics. I definitly wouldn't entertain the notion the quality from 10th-20th has gone up, there is still abhorrant teams in this league containing players you question how they ever reached this level. I for one, am really looking forward to not having to play Sunderland twice a season next year.

jayo26

Definitely agree with thedoc the quality tactically of the underdogs has not improved apart from they seem to have mastered counter attack and hit on the break.

I wouldnt blame it entirely on the likes of pulis tho I think Jose did a lot of that in his first time with Chelsea to limit the likes of united and arsenal.

sReq | uTeK

We will get top 4. Have faith our luck is bound to turn around sooner rather than later.

The_Kew_Tour

I will ban myself for a year if we get top 4.

Honestly will be stunned if we get top 4 now. Not a chance imo.

EL we might win and that's our best bet by a longshot to get to the CL.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I will ban myself for a year if we get top 4.

Honestly will be stunned if we get top 4 now. Not a chance imo.

EL we might win and that's our best bet by a longshot to get to the CL.

Yehh i think top four has passed us by at this stage And It's not because the others are so good it's just we lack the consistency to make a final push it would take a massive upturn in fortunes.

The_Kew_Tour

jayo26 wrote: »

Yehh i think top four has passed us by at this stage And It's not because the others are so good it's just we lack the consistency to make a final push it would take a massive upturn in fortunes.

Agree

we would need to get 7 points minimum, from Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs and that aint happening in the form we are in

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Agree

we would need to get 7 points minimum, from Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs and that aint happening in the form we are in

Depending on how pool and arsenal go we need at least 18 points from 27 if we beat city and arsenal obviously that would help against them massively.

Cantona's Collars

I don't think this was posted.

https://twitter.com/Cristiano/status/849879622338707456

Ronaldos new boots in memory of his time st United and it turning him into the player he is.

Aslan

Some quotes from the talking lion himself...

Aslan wrote:

Reporter : "You described yourself on the pitch as believing you are a lion."

Zlatan : I am a lion.

Reporter : "Are there enough lions around you on this team?"

Zlatan : The table is not lying, I think the team is where it is because it is what it is. Top 4 for me...last time I came 2nd I don't even remember that. It was in Milan.

Reporter : AC Milan. You didn't like that.

Zlatan : No.

Reporter : You said it was something you weren't used to.

Reporter : You described that season as a failure.

Zlatan : It is a failure. What ever comes after 1st is a failure. But we still have other trophies to play for also. We are doing the best we can but we still want more.

On Jose Mourinho : I think he still is the same winner. I think he has a lot of patience with this team.

Zlatan : I came here as a 35 year old where everyone thought I was in a wheel chair. Then what happened? The lion is still alive.

Zlatan : I know the premier league is begging me to stay. I'm 36, I make the younger people feel old.

A hard truth in the bolded part perhaps?

MD1990

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/849986930897018880

this is the problem with English football.
Madness he is on 100k if it is true.

The_Kew_Tour

jayo26 wrote: »

Depending on how pool and arsenal go we need at least 18 points from 27 if we beat city and arsenal obviously that would help against them massively.

If the Run In was not so tough then I would give us a shout and while Liverpool are dropping points against the weaker sides the fact they can rest proper with no Europe and Cup to worry about is worth few points alone.

If we are going to get Top 4 I think its City we might catch and we have to beat them no question about it and at their ground that wont be easy.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If the Run In was not so tough then I would give us a shout and while Liverpool are dropping points against the weaker sides the fact they can rest proper with no Europe and Cup to worry about is worth few points alone.

If we are going to get Top 4 I think its City we might catch and we have to beat them no question about it and at their ground that wont be easy.

Nope never a easy game in a half full stadium.

Edit: the only thing that may stand to us is the away games and the opposition can't sit back and we can counter..

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/849986930897018880

this is the problem with English football.
Madness he is on 100k if it is true.

Same as Firmino
Daniel Sturridge earns 120k sitting on his arse
It's Madness alright