Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

To be frank, the club will never, and should never, take that attitude. The attitude at the club should be "Jose is our manager, and will be for twenty years!". Even if that might be naive, the club should not be making transfer decisions with a subtext about the manager not lasting longer than a few years...

Well that is naive unfortunately. I'll be shocked if we have Jose after three seasons, absolutely shocked. And this is a manager with very few big jobs left to go to.

I'm not saying the club should oversee transfer policy, I'm saying they should safeguard it. I'm saying should Jose walk into Ed and be like "Anthony, you can get rid", Woodward should be big enough to say "Well hold on, why" and if not satisfied "Look Jose, appreciate you don't want him around, but he is a massive prospect. We will send him out on loan for a term and you might change your mind in a seasons time"

Or something to that effect.

Of course the club should back the coach for his plans and requirements. But they should also be cute and safeguard themselves and the squad in certain situations. Martial is a current scenario that I'm deeply worried about. Memphis was the other that came to pass. And cool, a buyback clause.

I think the club needs to ensure it properly moves on from the Ferguson era. We arn't going to get managers for decades. They clearly learned that lesson with Moyes with that bat**** mental contract.

So it's not an outragous assumption to think the squad will probably get surgery every 3-4 years when a new manager arrives with new ideas. I think the days of longterm managers are gone, so the club may need to start putting provisions in place whereby they are securing the longterm squad integrity, like they do at Real, Barca and Bayern. Sure money available there for a manager to bring in specific targets, but the club should be putting infrastructure in place to ensure the maintenance of top young talent.

It won't be sustainable to just buy in established senior players for every manager in the longterm.

I think it's a valid concern to raise imo

jimmytwotimes 2013

bucketybuck wrote: »

With all due respect, anybody content with Valencia as a first choice defender should also content themselves with being a 5th place team.

I'd have to agree. I have massive respect for Valenica and his work rate on the pitch. He is a valuable squad player.

His weaknesses are obvious tho. He gets into great crossing positions and too often fails to find a man or even look up when crossing. Defensively he gets caught out and can lose a player running in behind him due to the fact he's not a full back.

Love the fella tho and he can't be faulted for honesty. But if we're hoping to raise our level there are better full backs out there.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

With all due respect your post is nonsense.

No, it is not, its perfectly accurate. We are in our current position for a very obvious reason, too many of our players are "fifth place in the table" quality. Thats simple reality. The only question then is if you are happy to stick with them or not.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, it is not, its perfectly accurate. We are in our current position for a very obvious reason, too many of our players are "fifth place in the table" quality. Thats simple reality. The only question then is if you are happy to stick with them or not.

Odd to pick out a player who is among the best in his position in the league. We are fifth not because of players like Valencia, it's because we are **** at converting chances.

We have second best defensive record and the teams above have ****ing Sagna, Moses as RB/RWB position.

Boards is the only place where Valencia gets so much ****.

Jayop

wanderer100 wrote: »

When we last played them in the FA cup, Jose got the tactics spot on and we looked good until the red card at which everything went tits up from then on. if Jose can do that again, I reckon we'll have a decent shot, despite our home form.

I'm only worried about our home form against crap teams. Against the likes of Chelsea I'd much prefer to play them at home.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Odd to pick out a player who is among the best in his position in the league.

I'm pointing out the mentality, of thinking the likes of Valencia and indeed a host of others are good enough when the reality paints a whole other picture.

bangkok

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Completely disagree with this statement. Wenger is doing a terrible job at the moment as I'm sure everybody would agree. So if only one player in the Arsenal team would get into the Man Utd team as you say, all while Wenger is having a stinker of a season, then why are Man Utd only three points ahead? Wouldn't this suggest that Mourinho is doing a terrible job then? As you're basically saying he has 10/11 better players than Wenger has week in week out.

because wenger has been there for 20 years, Jose is in his first season at united, has already won 2 trophies and we are still in the hunt for Europa League and a top four finish. We have drawn a lot of silly games but at least we had some fight unlike Arsenal

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm pointing out the mentality, of thinking the likes of Valencia and indeed a host of others are good enough when the reality paints a whole other picture.

There is nothing wrong with mentality if someone says Valencia is good enough. It's just a lazy opinion to look at table and making some player a scapegoat. Valencia wasn't good enough as RW as he regressed but he is very good as RB.

He is the only ever present player in the defense that's 2nd best in the league, that says something.

So what now, Players like Sanchez isn't good enough because Arsenal is in 6th position?

bangkok

beakerjoe wrote: »

Theres plenty of players at Arsenal who would improve our team. Id personally love Ramsey. Not saying he'd be a perfect fit for Utd, but Ive always liked him as a player.

Now there is a player i wouldnt want us near and everything that is wrong with arsenal, hasn't made the step up all his early career promised maybe not helped by that leg break, but i would much rather Fellaini in our squad over Ramsey and thats saying a lot

Lord TSC

I like Valencia. But same as I said about Fellaini yesterday. Extremely hard working, managers obviously trust him massively and appreciate his work ethic, and I think he's done well this season. But he's not good enough for an elite team. He should be a backup player for that position, but no one has stepped up to displace him.

Defensively, he's improved (though is still prone to brainfarts). Offensively, he's a disaster; looking at his stats, he only has three assists all season despite playing a massive role in our attacks. According to the Premier League site, he's played 1,241 passes this season, with 137 crosses. 3 assists. I'll admit that he might, at times, be let down by others getting on the end of those crosses, but I don't know how people can see how often he gets the ball and wastes it, and then think he's good enough for a top level team.

As I said. Great work ethic. Extremely hard working. Probably a club legend when he retires. But currently, he's not good enough if we're looking at becoming an elite team again. Not the biggest problem. But not the least of our worries either.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

With all due respect, anybody content with Valencia as a first choice defender should also content themselves with being a 5th place team.

nonsense to be honest, Valencia is up there along with Zlatan to win our player of the year award. Has been excellent this season and one of the the best RB in the league

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

I like Valencia. But same as I said about Fellaini yesterday. Extremely hard working, managers obviously trust him massively and appreciate his work ethic, and I think he's done well this season. But he's not good enough for an elite team. He should be a backup player for that position, but no one has stepped up to displace him.

Defensively, he's improved (though is still prone to brainfarts). Offensively, he's a disaster; looking at his stats, he only has three assists all season despite playing a massive role in our attacks. According to the Premier League site, he's played 1,241 passes this season, with 137 crosses. 3 assists. I'll admit that he might, at times, be let down by others getting on the end of those crosses, but I don't know how people can see how often he gets the ball and wastes it, and then think he's good enough for a top level team.

As I said. Great work ethic. Extremely hard working. Probably a club legend when he retires. But currently, he's not good enough if we're looking at becoming an elite team again. Not the biggest problem. But not the least of our worries either.

How many RBs in the league have more assists?

Also saying prone to brainfarts is silly when he is very solid defensively this season.

Attacking is more than assists, it's also carrying the ball to final third and giving some breathing space for our players. There isn't a player in our squad who can carry the ball 30-40 yards like Valencia.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I like Valencia. But same as I said about Fellaini yesterday. Extremely hard working, managers obviously trust him massively and appreciate his work ethic, and I think he's done well this season. But he's not good enough for an elite team. He should be a backup player for that position, but no one has stepped up to displace him.

Defensively, he's improved (though is still prone to brainfarts). Offensively, he's a disaster; looking at his stats, he only has three assists all season despite playing a massive role in our attacks. According to the Premier League site, he's played 1,241 passes this season, with 137 crosses. 3 assists. I'll admit that he might, at times, be let down by others getting on the end of those crosses, but I don't know how people can see how often he gets the ball and wastes it, and then think he's good enough for a top level team.

As I said. Great work ethic. Extremely hard working. Probably a club legend when he retires. But currently, he's not good enough if we're looking at becoming an elite team again. Not the biggest problem. But not the least of our worries either.

4 assists 1 Goal playing at right back in a season where we have had one of our worst goal returns in years. He has been nothing short of a revelation at right back and as Jose said he tried to sign him when he was Madrid manager to play the same position. I wouldnt swap him for any other rb in the league right now

Korat

If Valencia could regularly put in decent a cross he'd be one of the best players in the league. His play has improved this season by getting to the line more but his final ball is often terrible. One of Utd's best players this season though, which says a lot.

NoviGlitzko

Our best player this season? Find a replacement! - boards logic

Jayop

If (I know it's a huge if) we can win our next three games then we will go ahead of City into 4th. The Burnley game is the FA cup weekend so we'll be playing our game in hand over a lot of them that weekend. We've City away and before that Chelsea at home. I do think we can do it, but it's really tough obviously. We can beat anyone at Old Trafford and Chelsea are in a bit of a funk at the moment. Burnley away should be a banker any other time and City away would probably suit us better at the moment.

Leroy42

Jayop wrote: »

If (I know it's a huge if) we can win our next three games then we will go ahead of City into 4th. The Burnley game is the FA cup weekend so we'll be playing our game in hand over a lot of them that weekend. We've City away and before that Chelsea at home. I do think we can do it, but it's really tough obviously. We can beat anyone at Old Trafford and Chelsea are in a bit of a funk at the moment. Burnley away should be a banker any other time and City away would probably suit us better at the moment.

What is this based on? They lost one game. Hazard is playing brilliant, back to his best, Kante is ruling midfield and they have little to no weakpoints.

If they are in a funk what state does that leave us in after the latest few matches.

paulbok

bangkok wrote: »

Now there is a player i wouldnt want us near and everything that is wrong with arsenal, hasn't made the step up all his early career promised maybe not helped by that leg break, but i would much rather Fellaini in our squad over Ramsey and thats saying a lot

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

All this post needed was a mic drop gif, and we could all go home for the day.

:D:D

Jayop

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is this based on? They lost one game. Hazard is playing brilliant, back to his best, Kante is ruling midfield and they have little to no weakpoints.

If they are in a funk what state does that leave us in after the latest few matches.

They haven't been scoring as freely, a few of the games recently took a slice of luck to win and they just haven't looked as impressive. Costa is going through a funk too.

Beat Bournmouth but they were jammy against City big time. Both of their goals were poxy in the extreme and lost to Palace before that.


I'm not comparing them to us, I'm comparing them to how good they looked early in the season.

Liam McPoyle

I am getting serious deja vu with the last few posts re Val and Jose trying to sign him.

Stupid matrix.

TheDoc

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Our best player this season? Find a replacement! - boards logic

You feel Valencia has been our best player?

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

You feel Valencia has been our best player?

I would probably say our third best after Zlatan and Hererra. Valencia has been our most consistent.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Well that is naive unfortunately. I'll be shocked if we have Jose after three seasons, absolutely shocked. And this is a manager with very few big jobs left to go to.

I'm not saying the club should oversee transfer policy, I'm saying they should safeguard it. I'm saying should Jose walk into Ed and be like "Anthony, you can get rid", Woodward should be big enough to say "Well hold on, why" and if not satisfied "Look Jose, appreciate you don't want him around, but he is a massive prospect. We will send him out on loan for a term and you might change your mind in a seasons time"

Or something to that effect.

Of course the club should back the coach for his plans and requirements. But they should also be cute and safeguard themselves and the squad in certain situations. Martial is a current scenario that I'm deeply worried about. Memphis was the other that came to pass. And cool, a buyback clause.

I think the club needs to ensure it properly moves on from the Ferguson era. We arn't going to get managers for decades. They clearly learned that lesson with Moyes with that bat**** mental contract.

So it's not an outragous assumption to think the squad will probably get surgery every 3-4 years when a new manager arrives with new ideas. I think the days of longterm managers are gone, so the club may need to start putting provisions in place whereby they are securing the longterm squad integrity, like they do at Real, Barca and Bayern. Sure money available there for a manager to bring in specific targets, but the club should be putting infrastructure in place to ensure the maintenance of top young talent.

It won't be sustainable to just buy in established senior players for every manager in the longterm.

I think it's a valid concern to raise imo

You're forgetting that Jose has nearly always left squads behind that are great squads. Look what Conte has done in a short space with a few players added. You are always very hard on poor aul Jose

Also Valencia is still positionally poor but has got better tbf.I gave him lots of flak last year but not so much this year and he cant be improved on

jayo26

Just reading a bit there on Vidic it's so hard to believe he is still only 35 feels like he is gone ages and should be older. With a bit of luck he should be only winding his career down with us now.

Korat

Deleted User wrote: »

You are always very hard on poor aul Jose

No harm in critically analysing but I think Doc made his mind about Mourinho a long time ago. I hope it can be turned by events on the pitch rather than following popular opinion of the guy.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

Valencia has been our most consistent.

Consistent. I'll give him that one alright, he sure is consistent.

Anytime the Valencia debate comes up, posters make it abundantly clear that he is not good enough for United. Fair enough, everyone's entitled to an opinion on such a subjective matter. However, the one thing I rarely to never see is a suggestion of who would be good enough.

If the Valencia debate is going to come around again and many things said before are going to be forgotten/discarded and repeated, let's at least try and advance things on a little.

I still think that Valencia is good for us but he'll be 32 by the time next season starts, so the position is far from a lock even though I am a fan of him. With an open mind though, can anyone show me a player they think would be a better fit at RB for a title-challenging United side?

Walker from Spurs? Aurier from PSG? Carvajal from R Madrid? Piszczek from Dortmund? Juanfran from A Madrid?

Some of those (Piszczek, Juanfran), even if attainable, are the same age as Tony V and would probably have to 'waste' a valuable season settling into the league/team.

The younger ones, like Walker and Carvajal are unattainable at the moment IMO and I don't know if Walker is much of an upgrade on Tony V. Carvajal has talent no doubt, but is excelling in a team of superstars. IMO Tony V is doing similar work but in a weaker team.

Aurier, he is young, but I'm not yet convinced. Thing is though, at his age he probably has the highest ceiling of the players listed above in terms of improvement and could be a good signing for the future. Speaking of which, there's Bellerin to consider in that context too.

NoviGlitzko

Good post stankratz. But as far as Bellerin is concerned, he was savaged last night by the Arsenal fans for his performance last night and his performances over the last half season in general have been poor. I looked at the Bournemouth vs Arsenal game some months back and he was shocking.

I'd be looking at practically every other position on our team bar De Gea & Valencia in places where we could strengthen for next season.

The_Kew_Tour

You're never going to have a World Class first 11. You need your good functioning players who work with the team.

Valencia is a very solid option. He may be bit frustrating but his one of few players who went from being excellent, to crap, to beung back to good.

To suggest we deserve to be 5th due to having Valencia at FB is FIFA 17 Ultimate Team thinking

jambofc

Valencia attacking...block the line watch him pass with the ouside of his foot infield
Valencia defending....put the ball threw on his inside watch him lose his player from the outside

Hococop

Hopefully the Dortmund lads are ok

The_Kew_Tour

Jesus just seen that.

I hope all players and fans are ok.

Liam O

Jayop wrote: »

I would probably say our third best after Zlatan and Hererra. Valencia has been our most consistent.

Herrera hasn't had a very good season imo despite having a good mentality. He's been played out of position a lot admittedly but can't keep up with athletic players in the middle when playing deep and not really stood out in the box to box role.

Valencia has been consistent alright. Consistently bad going foward. Even though teams give him free run at them a lot. Great at getting up and down the line and much improved defensively despite being positionally naive at times, if he didn't waste so many good opportunities going forward I'd be very happy with him.

I feel Pogba's loss of form/injury the last month makes people underrate a lot of very good displays this season. Could do better obviously but been very good imo.

Jayop

jambofc wrote: »

Valencia attacking...block the line watch him pass with the ouside of his foot infield
Valencia defending....put the ball threw on his inside watch him lose his player from the outside

How's things in 2015 with that assessment of his defending?

mewe

What a pass!

caviardreams

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You're never going to have a World Class first 11. You need your good functioning players who work with the team.

Valencia is a very solid option. He may be bit frustrating but his one of few players who went from being excellent, to crap, to beung back to good.

To suggest we deserve to be 5th due to having Valencia at FB is FIFA 17 Ultimate Team thinking

Agree completely with this - a world class player in every position is nice but unrealistic.

Val also is not a card magnet and touch wood has a decent enough injury record. His athleticism means that his ability to sprint the length of the pitch even at the end of 90 minutes is a very rare and welcome asset imo.

I would certainly be happy sticking with Val as first choice right back for another year or so anyway - as stankratz said, there are not many obvious candidates and at Val's age it's not like he is going to be our long term right back anyway.

I think Val, Bailly, Shaw and a new world class CB would be an excellent first choice defence imo.

JaMarcusHustle

jimmytwotimes 2013

We cud have signed Alves for a year or two.

Jayop

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We cud have signed Alves for a year or two.

Tried that and got played by him or his agent.

bangkok

Iniesta attacking midfielder and play maker for Barcelona has the same number of goals that Valencia has for us this season..... :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

Jayop wrote: »

Tried that and got played by him or his agent.

He useless anyway, never wanted him.......

duffman13

I remember a few years ago and we were linked with Dybala around the time he went to Juventus. I thought it was mad money for a relatively unproven player, well I was spectacularly wrong.

We signed Memphis and Schneiderlin for similar money to him! Hindsight is a great thing

Jayop

duffman13 wrote: »

I remember a few years ago and we were linked with Dybala around the time he went to Juventus. I thought it was mad money for a relatively unproven player, well I was spectacularly wrong.

We signed Memphis and Schneiderlin for similar money to him! Hindsight is a great thing

If he had come to us at that time he'd be **** too.

duffman13

Jayop wrote: »

If he had come to us at that time he'd be **** too.

I don't think anyone can argue with that tbf

bangkok

that Juventus team is class. Allegri is on for a big shock if he goes to Arsenal!!

Rayne Wooney

Could be worse, could be Barca.

Where's their league cup?

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

With all due respect, anybody content with Valencia as a first choice defender should also content themselves with being a 5th place team.

One of our best players this season. Anyone who thinks Valencia is the reason we are in fifth need to start watching our games properly.
Far bigger and more obvious problems in the team. Actually far bigger problems in our back 4

wanderer100

Jayop wrote: »

If he had come to us at that time he'd be **** too.

So true. Di Maria being the perfect example

sky88

I think at the minute we have too many players who are good solid players and players with a lot of potential. We have very little real class except for glimpses. Zlatan being the exception.