Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I wouldn't blame him for the Goal either. It was a great cross and the striker had the leap ahead of him. At least he made an attempt.

More so was disappointed with Fel as he just stood ball watching and could have attacked the ball as it was coming into the box

100 percent agree on fell maybe it wasn't his man but he just bloody stood there watching he is the bloody biggest man on yhe pitch even if he ran in front of him it would of made a big difference.

Lord TSC

Quandary wrote: »

People will say it's the managers job to have the players focused and mentally prepared, but aside from allowing them to play with enough creative freedom to create plenty of good goal scoring chances (which we do) I'm not really sure what Jose can be expected to do.

I turned on Moyes plenty quick and turned on LVG when it became obvious no progress was being made. But this season, I genuinely am 100% behind Jose, because I feel he's coming through with his end of things. Yes, I'm disappointed in how the season turned out.

But we're coming out of games with so many chances created but squandered. We're dominating the majority of teams. We're doing everything right except one thing...finishing chances. Now, thats a massive problem, but its not an insurmountable one. Not like we had last year where the issue was LVG's entire philosophy, where no change in personnel would fix it; we were playing exactly the way LVG wanted, to the level of expectations he wanted.

I feel we have a whole host of "Average" players right now; Lingard, Fellaini, Martial, Rashford, Darmian, Carrick (just sticking to who we played last night) aren't producing the goods on a top level. The latter two had good games, but thats also part of the issue; that, last night, was a good game for them. We really lack players with clinical abilities, who can consistently kill off games. When Ibrahimovic has a quite game, there's no one else capable of finishing chances. Thats an easy problem to fix in the summer and I'd expect Jose will be looking to really rebuild the attack properly.

Minderbinder

Lord TSC wrote: »

I turned on Moyes plenty quick and turned on LVG when it became obvious no progress was being made. But this season, I genuinely am 100% behind Jose, because I feel he's coming through with his end of things. Yes, I'm disappointed in how the season turned out.

But we're coming out of games with so many chances created but squandered. We're dominating the majority of teams. We're doing everything right except one thing...finishing chances. Now, thats a massive problem, but its not an insurmountable one. Not like we had last year where the issue was LVG's entire philosophy, where no change in personnel would fix it; we were playing exactly the way LVG wanted, to the level of expectations he wanted.

I feel we have a whole host of "Average" players right now; Lingard, Fellaini, Martial, Rashford, Darmian, Carrick (just sticking to who we played last night) aren't producing the goods on a top level. The latter two had good games, but thats also part of the issue; that, last night, was a good game for them. We really lack players with clinical abilities, who can consistently kill off games. When Ibrahimovic has a quite game, there's no one else capable of finishing chances. Thats an easy problem to fix in the summer and I'd expect Jose will be looking to really rebuild the attack properly.

We have players with great potential who have actually produced in the past as well. Martial scored 18 last season. Rashford has been playing very well and the goals will come. Pogba was the best midfielder in the world last year. Mkhitaryan was exceptional at Dortmund. Mata was Chelsea's player of the year twice and has been very good for United. Zlatan is getting on and arguably the most in need of replacing, but he is still very good.

If Jose can't produce goals with those players then I think his system must be as flawed as Van Gaal's. I think he'll probably improve us again next year but I don't expect a huge difference in the personnel.

We have exceptional players and a very strong team on paper. There is a serious lack of patience throughout the club at the moment because of the lack of goals but I don't think an overhaul is what's needed. We need some stability in the team.

bucketybuck

Minderbinder wrote: »

We have exceptional players and a very strong team on paper.

You are seriously overstating the current quality of our team, its "prettiest wife at home" syndrome to the extreme.

For example, take Martial, Rashford and to a lesser extent Lingard. Talents yes, potential yes, but nowhere near the finished article and no other top team would be relying upon them if they were serious about challenging at the top of the table. They are just kids, they should be developing and getting chances as squad players when the time is right.

Yet between them this season they have 61 league appearances. 61 games, with a combined goal return of just 8. And then people wonder why we are in fifth?

We don't have an exceptional team, we have a rag tag group of kids, players settling into the league, over the hill ex-superstars and bits and pieces in between. Is it really surprising that we struggle for goals?

This season is toast unfortunately because our team is nowhere near as good as we think it is. The good news is that I do think next season will be miles better, Miki and Pogba will be settled after a full season, a new senior attacker will add to the quality and a better midfielder will give a better platform for the attack. What we are seeing now is just the necessary transition that in hindsight was always going to happen.

TheDoc

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Can you really coach finishing ? What would you expect him to do ? You can't really blame the manager for poor finishing.

This is the crux of the problem and where there is convenient excuses.

Yes you can coach finishing, like you coach or teach any skill in football, or sport. Sure it helps when you find a player with an inherit ability or nack for it, but of course it can be taught and coached.

While I wouldn't blame the manager for the odd occasion it happened, I would blame a manager, where it was a consistent theme throughout the course of the season, ala Van Gaal and now Mourinho. where it is evident it is not being worked on enough and improved.

Sorry I just think it's pure deflection from his own failings. You cannot keep blaming your attackers for not taking chances when you are the manager that should be addressing these problems MONTHS ago.

What, we just have a crocked bunch of bottlers that can't score?

Or we have a disjointed attack void of coaching or a plan, and relying on a 19 year old, 21 year old and Jesse Lingaard to go figure it out? Come on lads....seriously

Buying Antoinne Griezmann won't sort anything out unless Jose get's his **** together in the final third. Mhiki looks an absolute shell in games this season, this was one of the most creative forces in Europe last season.

I'll stop banging this drum when the team start lancing teams in games and there looks to be some realm of a plan in attack, and not just the players being slammed in public all the time. This is hardly a manager with a top track record for evaluating and judging attack talent anyway : /

TheDoc

Rod Munch wrote: »

When that improves then you can bet your bottom dollar that something else will raise its head.

The attack is a hot topic because it's been ropey for two seasons now. And it's clearly the last major cog to turn in this squad before (I feel anyway) we start to make proper inroads.

Our GK is world class, our defense was joint best in the league last year, and looks like it might be one of the toughest again this year.

Our attack is letting us down time and time again. You can claim all the excuses of "not his fault" all you want. Again, football extremes where the reality lies in the middle area. Yes the players could be doing better and should be, but so can he, with the plans,coaching and systems he is using and utilising.

If he gets the attack sorted, the last big issue glaring in our squad is the midfield. But as Ferguson demonstrated for AGES, you can mask up a ropey midfield with a strong defence and lethal firing line.

But you just cannot paper over the cracks of a disjointed misfiring attack.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Or we have a disjointed attack void of coaching or a plan

Amazing how we keep creating chances isn't it.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Thats an easy problem to fix in the summer and I'd expect Jose will be looking to really rebuild the attack properly.

So you think it's going to be as easy as basically buying in goals?

What in Europe at the moment is a realistic target for us to sign that is going to provide these goals, from what I imagine is one if not two flanks. I'm assuming Ibrahimovic is staying.

I wonder if part of fixing our attack is fixing our midfield. Carrick I won't get into in depth, but surely replaced in summer with a Jose architype mobile, athletic "destroyer" that won't be a creative outlet.

I think there is big upgrade potential on Hererra who I do like, but isn't the player I thought he would be. Actually isn't a bad shout for learning from Carrick and getting a run in that DM role. I really thought he was something totally different when we bought him. But I really liked that Chelsea away performance with him sitting deep. Little terrier who is good in the tackle but yet is a clever distributor.

There is a spot there in a midfield three for someone to really chip in with goals. Who that is going to be, in my head I've ideas but in reality what midfielders are actually bagging 15+ a season consistently any more.


*
On goals by the way. . 5 in 8 games for Memphis since moving to Lyon :cool:

wanderer100

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/852883303527051265

Damn....

brinty

wanderer100 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/852883303527051265

Damn....

So looking at that
1) Shaw admits he's been struggling and is going to work his arse off and prove Jose wrong and can get to the level Jose thinks he shoul
or
2) He's gone and says he'll prove Jose was wrong to do so

If the former, great and is that not the type of attitude Jose is trying to get out off everyone. And jose has shown that he's willing to admit his mistakes i.e. Bastian. If its the later well we'll see what happens. But can two manager (LvG and Mourinho) both be wrong re him being lazy and out of shape.

Lithium93_

wanderer100 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/852883303527051265

Damn....

I see that as José lighting the proverbial fire under Shaw working.. Hopefully he'll kick for the remainder of the season when he starts/comes off the bench.

bucketybuck

wanderer100 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/852883303527051265

Damn....

I bet he doesn't.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

So looking at that
1) Shaw admits he's been struggling and is going to work his arse off and prove Jose wrong and can get to the level Jose thinks he shoul
or
2) He's gone and says he'll prove Jose was wrong to do so

If the former, great and is that not the type of attitude Jose is trying to get out off everyone. And jose has shown that he's willing to admit his mistakes i.e. Bastian. If its the later well we'll see what happens. But can two manager (LvG and Mourinho) both be wrong re him being lazy and out of shape.

I'd imagine it's likely 1? Be unusual for a player to be quoted as indicating "**** you I'm off"

Headshot

brinty wrote: »

So looking at that
1) Shaw admits he's been struggling and is going to work his arse off and prove Jose wrong and can get to the level Jose thinks he shoul
or
2) He's gone and says he'll prove Jose was wrong to do so

If the former, great and is that not the type of attitude Jose is trying to get out off everyone. And jose has shown that he's willing to admit his mistakes i.e. Bastian. If its the later well we'll see what happens. But can two manager (LvG and Mourinho) both be wrong re him being lazy and out of shape.

I read it as option 1

Makes sense to me

Nailz

wanderer100 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/852883303527051265

Damn....

Good stuff if that is true. That's exactly the attitude that Shaw should get out of the criticism he received. I'd say Mourinho was delighted with that, he may have embarrassed Shaw in the process but he's getting the desired reaction so far.

jayo26

Be interesting to see will he play against Chelsea

brinty

Didn't realise he'd done an interview with SSN so yea its the first

Thats the type off attitude you want to see. Look lets be honest, no one has nailed down Left Back yet and if Luke can show it during the rest of the season its all his. He's still young and immature and will make mistake (which Jose needs to accept) but Jose needs to back him for more than a couple of matches.

For next season Jose needs to bite the bullet and settle on his back four. If you look at his succesful teams they've always been built on a solid back 5 that rarely changes.
1st Chelsea team Cech, Ferreira/ Johnson, Terry, Carvalho and Gallas
2nd Chelsea team Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Cahill and azpil...

If that settled back 5 is Dave, Val, Bailly, AN other and Shaw great. But stop chopping and changing and settle it.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

Didn't realise he'd done an interview with SSN so yea its the first

Thats the type off attitude you want to see. Look lets be honest, no one has nailed down Left Back yet and if Luke can show it during the rest of the season its all his. He's still young and immature and will make mistake (which Jose needs to accept) but Jose needs to back him for more than a couple of matches.

For next season Jose needs to bite the bullet and settle on his back four. If you look at his succesful teams they've always been built on a solid back 5 that rarely changes.
1st Chelsea team Cech, Ferreira/ Johnson, Terry, Carvalho and Gallas
2nd Chelsea team Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Cahill and azpil...

If that settled back 5 is Dave, Val, Bailly, AN other and Shaw great. But stop chopping and changing and settle it.

This is the important part for me. If players respond to what he wants, then they should be entrusted and given games to build confidence and belief. Shaw is so clearly the best LB at the club. While we've gotten away a bit having competent cover in that position, we have definitely missed out on his ability going forward.

He should really prove to the manager that it is his flank worth getting the attention on, and not our right side.

Shaw mirrored by Darmian still to me looked the best fullback pair we have had operate since Post Ferguson.

I'm also not really convinced Shaw actually has an attitude problem if I'm honest.

bucketybuck

Nailz wrote: »

Good stuff if that is true.

I genuinely think he is all talk, he won't follow through or change his attitude nearly enough.

Its April, you think it wasn't clear long before now that he wasn't performing up to scratch?

I have had a few lads like that working for me over the years, you'll pull them in and call them on their poor work and they will be full of beans and promises about what they will do going forward. Six months later you will be talking to them again.

Thats their nature, if you need to point out **** performance then you have already lost, the real winners don't need to be told. They certainly don't need to be told the same thing by multiple managers.

Maybe Shaw has had an epiphany and will turn his United career around, but like I say, I know where I think this ends.

bangkok

Hasnt been much said of carricks performance last night on here.

he had over 100 passes last night with a success rate of 95%!!! that is incredible.

he deserves a new contract

Hococop

bangkok wrote: »

Hasnt been much said of carricks performance last night on here.

he had over 100 passes last night with a success rate of 95%!!! that is incredible.

he deserves a new contract

Did he not get another year or was it negotiating another year?

Also for some reason all I can think of with the Shaw quote is

"I'll prove you wrong, I'll join a new club, with blackjack and hookers, I'm fact forget the blackjack....... Ah screw the whole thing"

caviardreams

I see Mata is definitely out for the rest of the season:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39602059

I miss Juan

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

So you think it's going to be as easy as basically buying in goals?

What in Europe at the moment is a realistic target for us to sign that is going to provide these goals, from what I imagine is one if not two flanks. I'm assuming Ibrahimovic is staying.

I think if we can reverse the over-reliance on kids and average players through the team, then yeah, it will be as easy as "buying goals".

Agree with the flanks notion. If Ibra stays (big IF, either way), then I think we'll be spending a massive chunk of a top level LW player (to replace Martial). I think you're going to see us linked to Griezmann, Neymar, Sanchez...IF we get CL football. As Bucky said then, Mkhi having settled in (hopefully) either as a #10 or the RW, Mata...I wouldn't be shocked to see another player coming in who can be a #10/RW either.

I also think a more reliable attacking wing back, one side or the other, will be brought in. I don't think Shaw makes it to September tbh, regardless of what he's currently saying, and I think that Jose will want to upgrade on Valencia (i.e. someone who can attack AND defend), in hopes of having overlapping runs that will result in better delivery into the box.

I wonder if part of fixing our attack is fixing our midfield. Carrick I won't get into in depth, but surely replaced in summer with a Jose architype mobile, athletic "destroyer" that won't be a creative outlet.

I think there is big upgrade potential on Hererra who I do like, but isn't the player I thought he would be. Actually isn't a bad shout for learning from Carrick and getting a run in that DM role. I really thought he was something totally different when we bought him. But I really liked that Chelsea away performance with him sitting deep. Little terrier who is good in the tackle but yet is a clever distributor.

There is a spot there in a midfield three for someone to really chip in with goals. Who that is going to be, in my head I've ideas but in reality what midfielders are actually bagging 15+ a season consistently any more.

I agree 100% with Hererra; i adore him, but not convinced he has what it takes to step up a level. I think Pogba could be that midfielder who chips in with goals; if I'm right, he's on 7 this year, and could have had 10 more if he wouldn't keep hitting the post. I think you'll see Jose going after a more defensive minded CM to free up Pogba and have a more complete unit. We're linked with bakayoko a lot but someone of his ilk.

Personally, I think we're looking at (in terms of priority)

1. Striker (First team, star player, IF Ibra goes like a Lukaku; if he doesn't, a backup, like a Hernandez)
2. CDM (basically, find our Kante)
3. Winger (First team, probably a replacement for Martial; our Hazard, Griezmann, Neymar, etc)
4. Fullback (Shaw's replacement).

Wouldn't be shocked if we end up having to do a keeper search during that too...

caviardreams

caviardreams wrote: »

I see Mata is definitely out for the rest of the season:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39602059

I miss Juan

So does the team/squad IMO.

brinty

caviardreams wrote:

I see Mata is definitely out for the rest of the season:

stankratz wrote:

So does the team/squad IMO.

Is he cup tied again that he's out for the season

Division

While Utd were quite dominant against Anderlecht it was in no large part down to the youth of the Belgian team who over exerted themselves in the first 20 minutes.

I have gone with Chelsea 'Draw No Bet' in my betting log at a fairly massive 2.05 as the best I see Utd getting from this game is another 1-1 draw.

Would you prefer to see a weakened team put out on Sunday if it increased your chances of progressing in the Europa League considering that there are not too many strong teams left and the winner gets a Champions League place versus the players exerting themselves a lot and maybe not playing to the best of their ability in the return leg against Anderlecht who do carry a threat?

Quandary

Division wrote: »

Would you prefer to see a weakened team put out on Sunday if it increased your chances of progressing in the Europa League considering that there are not too many strong teams left and the winner gets a Champions League place versus the players exerting themselves a lot and maybe not playing to the best of their ability in the return leg against Anderlecht who do carry a threat?

No reason why we can't field our strongest 11 vs Chelsea. If we can't beat Anderlecht at Old Trafford then we have no business being in the champions league anyway. 3 days to recover and no travel should be no problem.

NoviGlitzko

caviardreams wrote: »

I miss Juan

Miss the goals he brings. Sorely missed in the run in.

Leroy42

I see from a few posts above the thought of replacement for Martial.

Do people think that Utd need to ship him out. No doubt he has been a massive disappointment this season, brought nothing to the team

Jayop

I'd be looking to keep him, but he'd not be starting too may games till he shapes up.

Leroy42

That is where I would be. The only reason to keep him being the massive fee paid for him and the 'threat' that moving on will bring him back to his form.

However, I see nothing from him this season to suggest that he has anything like the attributes required to be successful in the PL. Too much sulking, not enough effort.

He did well last year, but I think it might have been an extreme version of Januzai. Utd were so poor that anything, anything at all that rose above that mediocrity would be lauded as the saviour.

OF maybe he is that good and has simply not been able to cope with the pressures at a club like Utd.

DM_7

Martial has played less than 1000 EPL minutes this season.

Would like to see him playing in around the box more (When he does play).

Lord TSC

I'd rather not sell Martial. I'd rather, giving his age, form, etc. Have him be a backup player to an older, more experienced player to take pressure off him. Or loan him out like we have done other 20 year olds, see if that helps him kick on a level.

BUT I don't think he would be happy with a squad role, and when you look at the fee we could get for him, I'd wager Jose would rather get the cash, have another back up player and focus on that more experienced player.

For instance, I think Jose would happily see him sold if he could replace him with Griezmann or Sanchez

brinty

brinty wrote: »

Is he cup tied again that he's out for the season

Neither, Jose hates his guts and finally told him to f*ck off...again.

The_Kew_Tour

Backed Fellaini to hilt but was totally at fault for goal last night.

Again should have scored few more. Tie not over but least we have away goal.

Division

Considering his cv at the time I'll never understand how Martial was bought for such a ridiculous amount of money, or even why he was bought period.

Maybe he is as good now as he will get. Early peaker.

The only teenager who might possibly be worth that much is Mbappe but that is as much down to his decision making ability which Martial never displayed.

StringerBell

bucketybuck

Division wrote: »

Considering his cv at the time I'll never understand how Martial was bought for such a ridiculous amount of money, or even why he was bought period.

Lets hope some lessons will be learned about such decisions.

The only teenager who might possibly be worth that much is Mbappe

Never mind...

jayo26

If martial fails to score in 2 more games for united we have to pay Monaco another 5 million

mewe

I don't have any worries about Martial. I think he's a great prospect and will fulfill his potential.

With regards to Pogba, I've been disappointed overall this season but I definitely haven't given up hope on him. The odd Hollywood pass here and there isn't going to cut it but he has shown glimpses of the type of player he can be in the team. He didn't have the complete performance the other night but I thought he played well.

If Rashford can live up to his potential aswell, which is a real top player I think, then there's reason to be optimistic for the future.

GSPfan

If Martial could be sold right now for a profit, and we were going to replace him with Alexis Sanchez or someone of that quality, then Id sell him.

I'd also let Zlatan go in the Summer too if a really good striker was available, such as Aubameyang.

I'd still buy Griezmann to play behind a main striker.

It would cost United around £150 million if you factor in the Martial sale but it would be worth it. Spend a few bob on a central midfielder and we go in to next season in great shape.

Brendan Flowers

GSPfan wrote: »

If Martial could be sold right now for a profit, and we were going to replace him with Alexis Sanchez or someone of that quality, then Id sell him.

I'd also let Zlatan go in the Summer too if a really good striker was available, such as Aubameyang.

I'd still buy Griezmann to play behind a main striker.

It would cost United around £150 million if you factor in the Martial sale but it would be worth it. Spend a few bob on a central midfielder and we go in to next season in great shape.

If you are buying someone to play behind the striker then I assume you are looking at Utd playing a 4-2-3-1 formation? Where do you then play Pogba? For me, Pogba is best played on the left side of a 3 man midfield with 1 DM. This is what I'd hope is ultimately planned for the team when all the right players are brought in. But it means I dont necessarily see Utd playing with a traditional No.10. If Griezmann is brought in I'd expected him to be played somewhere across a front 3.

fuzzydunlop85

I'd get rid of Martial if we could recoup any sort of decent fee for him. Probably complete BS but BBC gossip colum saying United would consider selling De gea to Madrid for a cash plus Kroos deal, how would people feel about that? I'd definitely be keen on it.

posturingpat

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

I'd get rid of Martial if we could recoup any sort of decent fee for him. Probably complete BS but BBC gossip colum saying United would consider selling De gea to Madrid for a cash plus Kroos deal, how would people feel about that? I'd definitely be keen on it.

Take off the red tinted glasses. Why on earth would Kroos want to come to us and why would Madrid want rid? He's bossing midfield for a team competing domestically and on a European stage and is probably in the top 3 or 4 in the world at what he does.

posturingpat

Busquets having a quiet season with Barcelona......

Giggsy11

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

I'd get rid of Martial if we could recoup any sort of decent fee for him. Probably complete BS but BBC gossip colum saying United would consider selling De gea to Madrid for a cash plus Kroos deal, how would people feel about that? I'd definitely be keen on it.

Get rid of Martial? People really have very weak memories. He had issues with his personal life which had impact on his form and he is struggling, if every young player is sold after their first rough period then there won't be any young player playing anywhere in the world.

Jayop

I'm honestly flabbergasted that anyone would want to get rid of our best player from last year. A player who's still only a kid. A player who's only in his second season with us.

Jesus Christ lads, he's playing out on the wing most games, has 33 apps and 7 goals. In Ronaldos seconds season he had 50 apps and 9 goals in a better team. I'm not saying he's going to be Ronaldo, but in Ronnie's second season would you have said he'd have been in the running for one of the best of all time?

There's literally no patience with a lot of football fans now.

GSPfan

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

If you are buying someone to play behind the striker then I assume you are looking at Utd playing a 4-2-3-1 formation? Where do you then play Pogba? For me, Pogba is best played on the left side of a 3 man midfield with 1 DM. This is what I'd hope is ultimately planned for the team when all the right players are brought in. But it means I dont necessarily see Utd playing with a traditional No.10. If Griezmann is brought in I'd expected him to be played somewhere across a front 3.

You are right about Pogba but Jose wants and needs to play a 4231 so Pogba just has to adapt. Sure take the game the other night for example. United played 4 at the back, Carrick and Pogba in midfield as a pair and Lingard, Mkhitaryan, and Rashford behind Zlatan.
Playing a 433 quickly becomes a 451 and isolates the striker too much in my opinion.

It's a dilemma Jose has to solve. Pogba's perceived inability to play a 2 man midfield is something that's a bit exaggerated in my opinion and a really strong partner beside him would dampen down the criticism.

fuzzydunlop85

posturingpat wrote: »

Take off the red tinted glasses. Why on earth would Kroos want to come to us and why would Madrid want rid? He's bossing midfield for a team competing domestically and on a European stage and is probably in the top 3 or 4 in the world at what he does.

Like I said it is more than likely BS. I was a asking hypothetical question, but maybe they would really want De Gea.

GSPfan

The thing with Martial is that he is a £60 million player and if he doesn't kick on soon and start showing the form he had last year then his value will plummet. That will be a factor if the likes of PSG knock on the door with a bag of money this Summer.

The other reason I could see him being sold is Jose's ruthless desire for success. Jose takes all the stick for our crapness in front of goal but it is the players who can't stick the ball in the net and Martial is as guilty as anyone for not contributing enough.