Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bucketybuck

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Why don't we complain about the right winger not putting in crosses rather than Valencia. He is playing right back. Fair enough he can have some contribution but he isnt Beckham and it's not his job to be.

In our team the right back is put in a position to cross more than the nominal right winger is, thats the simple reality.

Worry about the right winger as well if you want, but don't ignore the more relevant need relating to the full back.

Cantona's Collars

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Why don't we complain about the right winger not putting in crosses rather than Valencia. He is playing right back. Fair enough he can have some contribution but he isnt Beckham and it's not his job to be.

We never seem to play with a dedicated rw,Mata and Micky when played there tend to naturally move in centrally, Valencia gets loads of space out wide but he rarely makes use of the time and space afforded him.

Pheonix10

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Why don't we complain about the right winger not putting in crosses rather than Valencia. He is playing right back. Fair enough he can have some contribution but he isnt Beckham and it's not his job to be.

When teams sit deep its the full backs who often, provide the width Toni gets a lot of ball down to his general ****ness defenders always show him inside which is generally a no no but he has no left foot or no idea what to do when shown inside.
When he does make it down the line its aimless chips or bulldossers off the first man ugh Im getting angry typing this :mad:

deaddonkey15

bucketybuck wrote: »

In our team the right back is put in a position to cross more than the nominal right winger is, thats the simple reality.

Worry about the right winger as well if you want, but don't ignore the more relevant need relating to the full back.

We should have more avenues of attack then sending it out to a right back to lump it in to the box. That's pretty much all we can do. Hail Mary's into the box whenever we need a goal. All the teams above us are able to cut through teams, play through the middle, drag opposition players out of position. I think it's unfair that we spend millions on the likes of Mata, Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and it's Valencia that gets most of the blame for our ineffective attacks. Of course he will start becoming more ineffective as more teams realise that it's pretty much all this United side can do.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We should have more avenues of attack then sending it out to a right back to lump it in to the box.

Of course we should. But again, deal with how it is rather than how we want it to be.

Even in the best teams good service from the full back is essential, the service from all our full backs is horrendous, thats a problem that needs to be addressed regardless of how many other problems there are.

Liam McPoyle

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We should have more avenues of attack then sending it out to a right back to lump it in to the box. That's pretty much all we can do. Hail Mary's into the box whenever we need a goal. All the teams above us are able to cut through teams, play through the middle, drag opposition players out of position. I think it's unfair that we spend millions on the likes of Mata, Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and it's Valencia that gets most of the blame for our ineffective attacks. Of course he will start becoming more ineffective as more teams realise that it's pretty much all this United side can do.

My own personal bug bear with Val is that he sees a huge amount of the ball and with virtually no end product.

I'd love to see stats for how many assists he has vs crosses that don't make it past defenders legs or end up wide / off target.

I'd be massively surprised if its more than 25% - 35%

We have proven we can play through the middle throughout the season at various points but (to me at least) it seems the focal of our attack is along the right side.

Aside from Mata's attempt last night, the keeper didn't do anything really of note that a top division keeper shouldn't be doing anyway.

Pogba should have done better with his attempt (not the first time that's been said this season and I don't mean the chances that have hit the post)

Ibra seems to want to be involved in every attack.

There were a couple of occasions last night where I was willing Rashers to run at the defenders from the wing where he instead laid it off to Ibra and nothing came of it.

We have some hugely talented forward players but we do seem to be stiffled somewhat by Ibra being in the team.

Ultimately its Jose that picks the team and the tactics, against a team like Hull we should have gone at them from the outset instead of leaving it til we only had 20 minutes left to get a goal.

Its hugely frustrating that we rarely seem to get out of the blocks for the first hour of games over that last while.

I don't know if that's down to the players, the manager or to fatigue but what ever it is, it is simply not good enough.

I know its a rebuilding process, and a massive one, and I know that we have improved a helluva lot since last year but Jesus, it was fcuking Hull.

So maddening.

Bridge93

Leroy42 wrote: »

Where were we in terms of points and goals scored at the same time last year? Where is the best place to get those comparisons?

https://www.premierleague.com/tables?co=1&se=42&mw=1-23&ha=-1

You're 5 points and 5 goals better off. Same goals conceded and one place lower

bangkok

why is everyone on valencias case for his crossing ability? Valencia has been converted into a defender and is doing an excellent job defending and bringing the ball up field. What about Mkhitarayan, why he he getting a free ride? meant to be our creative player and has ZERO assists this season

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Such a bull**** excuse. It's 2017, full backs at top clubs have multiple jobs and in an attacking team like ours each job is as important as the other.

If De Gea was booting every goalkick into the stand would you shrug your shoulders and say "saving shots is his no.1 job and sure isnt he great at that"? Of course not, you would recognise that wasting possession from every goal kick was a problem that needed addressing.

So less of the "he is just a defender" bull**** because it is bull****.

in your opinion. he seems to be doing everything mourinho is asking of him so much so he only said last week he is the best right back in the world

also Valencia has 2 assists this season.....Philip lahm probably best rb in the world has 1. dani carvajl of real Madrid has 3

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

why is everyone on valencias case for his crossing ability? Valencia has been converted into a defender and is doing an excellent job defending and bringing the ball up field. What about Mkhitarayan, why he he getting a free ride? meant to be our creative player and has ZERO assists this season

Moving the goalposts
If the primary focus of our attack is coming from him then surely people can be critical of him when his delivery is awful
You can bring the ball up field all you want but what good is it if he can't create a decent scoring opportunity
And Miki has not been getting a free ride, plenty of posters have called him out over the last couple of games to say he has been poor
And I repeat Tony V is not doing an excellent job defending and points were made to you as to why and you haven't addressed those comments yet

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Moving the goalposts
If the primary focus of our attack is coming from him then surely people can be critical of him when his delivery is awful
You can bring the ball up field all you want but what good is it if he can't create a decent scoring opportunity
And Miki has not been getting a free ride, plenty of posters have called him out over the last couple of games to say he has been poor
And I repeat Tony V is not doing an excellent job defending and points were made to you as to why and you haven't addressed those comments yet

where has he been caught out of position or what games? he has been excellent defending in most of our games this season. January alone, where has he been caught out?

Leroy42

Bridge93 wrote: »

https://www.premierleague.com/tables?co=1&se=42&mw=1-23&ha=-1

You're 5 points and 5 goals better off. Same goals conceded and one place lower

So nothing really. That 5 points and 5 goals could easily be gained/lost.

So for all the nicer looking football we aren't really any better

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

What about Mkhitarayan, why he he getting a free ride? meant to be our creative player and has ZERO assists this season

Go complain about Mikitarian if you want, nobody is stopping you.

KH25

I really don't understand how anyone can look at valencias end product and think it's acceptable. He rarely whips in a dangerous cross anymore. It's either smashed low, or floated in. For someone who a lot of attacks flow through that's just simply not good enough.

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

I really don't understand how anyone can look at valencias end product and think it's acceptable. He rarely whips in a dangerous cross anymore. It's either smashed low, or floated in. For someone who a lot of attacks flow through that's just simply not good enough.

I dont think anyone has said it is acceptable. I said as a defender he has been excellent which he has been

Minderbinder

People are complaining about Valencia because they've thrown so much of their support on the likes of Jose, Pogba and Zlatan that it would be embarrassing at this early stage to really criticize them. They're still hopeful all of these people will be successful so they are holding back as they don't want to appear fickle. Valencia is a safe target to vent at because he's fairly low profile and won't be getting much better in the future. Rooney was also an easy target.

After a couple of seasons people usually start to blame the manager. Then a new manager comes in and the cycle begins again. See the Liverpool thread for the last five or six managers.

For me, I said it in the match thread that this is a different Hull than Phelan was in charge of. They've looked fairly good in the three games against us. And I think they'll stay up because this new manager looks a great choice. He reminds me of the Spurs manager. They were excellent last night and deserved their point.

KH25

bangkok wrote: »

I dont think anyone has said it is acceptable. I said as a defender he has been excellent which he has been

I never mentioned you or his defending. It's his involvement in the attack I'm on about.

J. Marston

I think Valencia has the hardest job in the team. He has to look after the entire right wing by himself. If we got a capable right winger, he could be put to serious effect but there's only so much he can do out there on his own.

Liam McPoyle

bangkok wrote: »

I dont think anyone has said it is acceptable. I said as a defender he has been excellent which he has been

He has only been a defender for a couple of seasons.

He has been a winger for most of his career and cannot wing.

How can you honestly not say that's an issue.

Mars Bar

Have people who are saying "Valencia's a defender" remember what his position was when he was bought? He was a winger. He had his best season for us as a winger. It's not unreasonable to expect a former winger be able to cross a ball.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

why is everyone on valencias case for his crossing ability? Valencia has been converted into a defender and is doing an excellent job defending and bringing the ball up field. What about Mkhitarayan, why he he getting a free ride? meant to be our creative player and has ZERO assists this season

Why just use his league numbers? He has 3 assists in the Europa League. That wouldn't suit your narrative as much though

He has played 20 games and has 4 goals and 3 assists. You are just trying to move the discussion away from Val.. can you not defend him so you have to resort to whataboutery

bangkok

Mars Bar wrote: »

Have people who are saying "Valencia's a defender" remember what his position was when he was bought? He was a winger. He had his best season for us as a winger. It's not unreasonable to expect a former winger be able to cross a ball.

And he wanst good enough as a winger so he was converted into a defender and now he is a very good rb.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

And he wanst good enough as a winger so he was converted into a defender and now he is a very good rb.

When the job of the RB in the system is to man the whole flank, which has been confirmed by Jose himself, you cannot just judge him on his defence (where he has been grand). You need to look at his attacking contributions too and those have been very disappointing. He has a habit of just hit and hope with his crossing and very seldom lying looks up to try pick out a man or a run

Big chances created by Toni v this season 0

3 ways we could line up with Griezmann

http://www.squawka.com/news/three-ways-that-manchester-united-can-line-up-with-antoine-griezmann/893928

adox

Minderbinder wrote: »

People are complaining about Valencia because they've thrown so much of their support on the likes of Jose, Pogba and Zlatan that it would be embarrassing at this early stage to really criticize them. They're still hopeful all of these people will be successful so they are holding back as they don't want to appear fickle. Valencia is a safe target to vent at because he's fairly low profile and won't be getting much better in the future. Rooney was also an easy target.

Thats just simply not true. All have been criticised on here.

How would it be embarrassing anyway? Nothing wrong with being wrong. we are all adults here.

Your post smells of looking for a rise.

newballsplease

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Martial doesn't play well, Martial doesn't play.

It's simple, and it's a standard that has dropped from the club since Fergie left. It should be cutthroat for a starting place at United, they are the highest paid players in the world.

Didn't he set up 2 goals in his last game?

Rayne Wooney

newballsplease wrote: »

Didn't he set up 2 goals in his last game?

Pogba made two wonderful passes and still played shít

Lord TSC

Minderbinder wrote: »

People are complaining about Valencia because they've thrown so much of their support on the likes of Jose, Pogba and Zlatan that it would be embarrassing at this early stage to really criticize them.

I disagree with this.

The issue is the criticisms of them are, by and large, unanimously agreed upon. There's not much room for debate, as everyone feels they are under preforming slightly.

With Valencia, there is debate, and once there's debate, that generates more discussion than everyone screaming the one side of an argument. If everyone said "Yeah, Valencia has been poor", then that discussion would die immediately, and look ignored like the others....

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

When the job of the RB in the system is to man the whole flank, which has been confirmed by Jose himself, you cannot just judge him on his defence (where he has been grand). You need to look at his attacking contributions too and those have been very disappointing. He has a habit of just hit and hope with his crossing and very seldom lying looks up to try pick out a man or a run

So then its jose fault for setting up a system that just has valencia manning the entire right flank?

newballsplease

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Pogba made two wonderful passes and still played shít

But Martial didn't play **** in his last game and set up 2 goals.

sReq | uTeK

Leroy42 wrote: »

SUrely we can question how Jose has totally failed to deal with the goalscoring issue.

We have an attacking line up Miki, Rooney, Rashford, Zlatan, Mata and Pogba. Any team in the world would love to have that. And yet Jose felt there was nobody available in Jan to improve an area that is clearly not functioning as it should.

So therefore he believes that they can do more, so what is he doing about it?

I agree that midfield is a major problem. We simply do not control the second ball when it comes out from a cross. How many times last night did d cross go into Hull's box, get headed away and then we are chasing them to get the ball back. In times past we would be winning those balls and forcing the other team to drop deeper and deeper. Them winning the ball gives them the time to come out and we start all over again.

Hull should have won that game last night, we were lucky to get a point. That is a disgrace.

Yes we are playing better style than under LVG but we don't seem to have improved much since the start of the season. And thats the worrying thing for me. Jose does not seem to be addressing the clear issues with the team.

Our defence is fine, but any team is always one bad ref call, unlucky bounce etc away from conceding. The best teams score to mitigate against that. Utd simply don't. We rely on our defence to unsure that a lucky goal or two will be enough.

It seems that the winning run was the anomolly rather than the new normal and we have reverted back to our level. This team has shown nothing to suggest that they have enough to win enough games over the remainder of the season to get into CL spots.

Really? you got that from watching the game. Me thinks you need to go to specsavers.

sReq | uTeK

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Really? you got that from watching the game. Me thinks you need to go to specsavers.

Not sure what OP meant, and Hull didn't didn't deserve a win overall, but United were 1-2 inches away from getting beaten by what would have been a class goal near the end.

That was scary, never mind failing to win ourselves, but almost giving them a victory out of that game. When Markovic took the shot, I was expecting to see DDG's net get rattled - him, our defenders, all beaten and sent the wrong way by a cheeky and clever effort. The woodwork has fúcked us a few times this season, but all was forgiven when it kept out that shot.

Don't know if that's what OP meant, but no matter who controlled the game or had the most chances overall, we almost got beaten for a second time on the trot by Hull but for the post.

Leroy42

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Really? you got that from watching the game. Me thinks you need to go to specsavers.

They had two very clear chances, both of which should have been scored, the one off the post could easily have gone in and the player straight through who messed it up.

Forget about how we played, when we look back at the game they could easily have taken the 3 points

sReq | uTeK

Leroy42 wrote: »

They had two very clear chances, both of which should have been scored, the one off the post could easily have gone in and the player straight through who messed it up.

Forget about how we played, when we look back at the game they could easily have taken the 3 points

A player messing up a through ball is not an indication of a team who should win. In the end he's scuffed a shot outside the box that trickled into the keepers hands.

As for the post, it was the 86th minute when United had effectively pushed 11 men into the Hull half trying to get a winner.

Two decent chances but again a team that is battered for 85 minutes in terms of possession, ****s, chances created and overall play does not deserve to win based on the last 5 minutes and two counters

Leroy42

I didn't say they deserved to win it, just that they should have.

Nalz

Paul Pogba is a good dancer

Flint Fredstone

Nalz wrote: »

Paul Pogba is a good dancer

Why did you make me click that link in the humour thread

RobertKK

Zlatan is on Eastenders

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Zlatan is on Eastenders

Hope he likes it, because he could be watching it next season with the rest of the team.

S.M.B.

I fully understand the frustration people are having with the amount of moves that come to an end with a Valencia cross but I think replacing him with someone with a reputation for a better delivery isn't going to solve all our problems.

Only a handful of Valencias crosses are coming at times when we are on the counter attack and its simply a matter of picking out a team mate or putting the ball into a dangerous position for one of our players to attack.

Unfortunately we can be so painfully slow at moving the ball from defence to attack (a slight improvement on last year but not that much) that a lot of the time we end up just moving the ball from side to side trying to find an opportune moment to deliver a ball. Valencias energy means he's great at finding that small bit of space to deliver a ball from a decent position relatively close to the byline on his right foot but it's usually going into a box full of opposing defenders.

We'd nearly be better off comparing his crossing stats with those coming from a corner.

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

Why just use his league numbers? He has 3 assists in the Europa League. That wouldn't suit your narrative as much though

He has played 20 games and has 4 goals and 3 assists. You are just trying to move the discussion away from Val.. can you not defend him so you have to resort to whataboutery

Its called Bangkok 101

I honestly have no idea why anyone still bothers with him.

bucketybuck

S.M.B. wrote: »

I fully understand the frustration people are having with the amount of moves that come to an end with a Valencia cross but I think replacing him with someone with a reputation for a better delivery isn't going to solve all our problems.

It would solve one of them, and thats a start.

Talk of a pre-agreement made with RB Nelson Semedo for a transfer in the Summer.

Sports Witness' take on it...

Manchester United and Benfica have reportedly reached an agreement in principle for the transfer of the right-back Nelson Semedo. Well, that’s according to claims in Portugal.

According to Notícias ao Minuto, regardless that the market has closed, the two clubs are lining up a deal to take place in the summer window.

Manchester United would be ready to pay £35m for the right-back in the summer. As Nelson Semedo is the Benfica player with most appearances this season, president Luis Filipe Vieira didn’t want to let him go during the title race.

Notícias Ao Minuto isn’t an outlet with frequent exclusives, and have been proven right a few times during the past year.

An interesting thing in this article is they mention the value in British pounds and they convert it to Euros, saying it would be around €41m.

Portuguese newspapers always take their clubs demands to set the figures, so it’s always a rounded number in Euros. In this case, this should mean the conversations are either real or the sources are coming from the buying side.

As the links between Manchester United and Semedo have been reported for a while, this is just another case where we have to wait and see.

From someone who says they are familiar with his game:

"For those that haven't seen him, he's like Valencia, except he can actually dribble at high speed instead of knocking it on and running. And I think he's maybe slightly faster too, which is ridiculous."

After Griezmann last night, and Semedo today, I wonder how many 'agreed in principle' deals we'll read about between now and the Summer versus how many actually come to pass.

I do think Griezmann is on his way though, and that Jose is looking to improve that RB position. I might defend Valencia, but never denied that the position could be improved upon or thought otherwise.

Trigger

stankratz wrote: »

Talk of a pre-agreement made with RB Nelson Semedo for a transfer in the Summer.

Sports Witness' take on it...

From someone who says they are familiar with his game:

"For those that haven't seen him, he's like Valencia, except he can actually dribble at high speed instead of knocking it on and running. And I think he's maybe slightly faster too, which is ridiculous."

After Griezmann last night, and Semedo today, I wonder how many 'agreed in principle' deals we'll read about between now and the Summer versus how many actually come to pass.

I do think Griezmann is on his way though, and that Jose is looking to improve that RB position. I might defend Valencia, but never denied that the position could be improved upon or thought otherwise.

My 4 for the summer as I said the other day before these broke were, Griezmann Semedo Lindelof and Bakayoko.. I really wouldn't be surprised if we have 3 of them agreed (Lindelof the other one) and as Bakayoko has plenty of teams after him he might hold off to see if we get CL football

Nalz

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Why did you make me click that link in the humour thread

Unfortunately it wasn't me who posted those posts. Left my phone in the very capable hands of a darling mate of mine... For nearly an hour!

Apologies Fred

Nalz

RobertKK wrote: »

Zlatan is on Eastenders

What?

Flint Fredstone

Nalz wrote: »

Unfortunately it wasn't me who posted those posts. Left my phone in the very capable hands of a darling mate of mine... For nearly an hour!

Apologies Fred

Ha, no problem, couldn't have picked a worse account. Of all the accounts on boards, that is the one I least want to see.

bangkok

Don't think we need a new right back at all, Fosu mensah already at the club and Valencia will be there next year as well.

Greizemann will join, would like to see a new midfielder sign as well be happy with that and then develop players already at the club

duffman13

bangkok wrote: »

Don't think we need a new right back at all, Fosu mensah already at the club and Valencia will be there next year as well.

Greizemann will join, would like to see a new midfielder sign as well be happy with that and then develop players already at the club

Valencia is a winger converted, Fosu Mensah is a center back who has filled in a couple of times. In Jose's on words, he likes specialists! I'll be surprised if we don't sign someone. Valencia is good player imo, however it shouldn't be a starter week in and week out