Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Lord TSC

The one thing I'd argue, playing devils advocate, is those signings were in manager's first years in charge, where they can bill it as "Yes, we missed out last year under a different manager, but I'm here now so next year will be fine!"

Leroy42

I am not arguing that we couldn't get them, it just seems Jose is starting to lay the groundwork for 'missing' out on the top targets. He said they club wouldn't waste their time as it only leads to increased wages for the player and he would focus on attainable targets.

So, apart from Greizeman who else? He is lowering the expectations for the fans. Except plenty of this for the rest of the season.

KH25

Another way of reading into it is that he has identified players he wants that he can get without a saga or being screwed over in the end. Ramos for instance, or Thiago. We won't know until summer I guess.

Liam McPoyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

I am not arguing that we couldn't get them, it just seems Jose is starting to lay the groundwork for 'missing' out on the top targets. He said they club wouldn't waste their time as it only leads to increased wages for the player and he would focus on attainable targets.

So, apart from Greizeman who else? He is lowering the expectations for the fans. Except plenty of this for the rest of the season.

How many times throughout his career has Jose signed a bona fide worldie?

I'm open to correction but throughout his career he has signed players that are in that middle ground between beginner and experienced. I wouldn't count the likes of E'too (how I'd love him in our current set up) because Barca wanted rid.

I wouldn't see it as lowering expectations at all tbh.

The pogba fee was an anomaly. Juve didn't want to sell, we wanted to buy so they held all the cards. If Griezmann (or anyone, I'm just using him as he is topical) is not 100% behind wanting to join us then forget about them. Fergie would have done the same where other managers would try and woo them.

Jose has a vision IMO about the type of player he wants.

Ibra was clearly a stop gap but Pogs and Bailly are future proofing players and Mikhi is a developed player.

One very experienced player.

One fairly experienced player.

2 relatively inexperienced players (age wise, Pogs has obviously played a lot of games).

I think that's the trend we will continue to see over the next couple of transfer windows until he gets his team in place.

While this season has been painful by times it has also being joyous, aside from the fa cup win last year there has been little to cheer about.

The future is bright and I can happily accept that for the time being.

~Rebel~

Leroy42 wrote: »

I would take it that Griezmann isn't coming unless we get CL

For a world record fee, a wage bigger than he'll get anywhere outside China, and the bonus of playing with a close friend, I reckon he'll be on board to forego CL for a year or two.

Liam McPoyle

~Rebel~ wrote: »

For a world record fee, a wage bigger than he'll get anywhere outside China, and the bonus of playing with a close friend, I reckon he'll be on board to forego CL for a year or two.

United or any European team will never get into the astronomical wage brackets that are available currently in China.

We are paying on parity with Barca or Madrid for wages for the "higher end" players. We just havnt had any recent success so its been arguably a waste of money for us.

Rooney on the last few years is vastly over paid (most players are tbh) at near £300k between wages and image rights.

Pogs and Zlatan came in this summer and are prolly both on over £200k each.

Other than those three I don't think there is anyone in our current team near £200k never mind over it.

Obviously he (Griezmann) would make a ball of money playing for us but he could match or better that with City or Real, probably Chelsea too if Conte really wanted him.

Lord TSC

Schwiensteiger officially added to the Europa League squad.

~Rebel~

Rod Munch wrote: »

United or any European team will never get into the astronomical wage brackets that are available currently in China.

Yup, that's what I meant by "a wage bigger than he'll get anywhere outside China"

Obviously he (Griezmann) would make a ball of money playing for us but he could match or better that with City or Real, probably Chelsea too if Conte really wanted him.

I honestly just don't see any of those teams paying a world record fee for him.

jayo26

Rod we won the fa cup last year to me that counts as recent success and we are already in the final of the Micky mouse cup this year and we have a chance of another two?

I know it's not premier league or champions league lads but the idea of supporting a club is to win trophies and have passion of it. Success should not be measured on finishing runners up to qualify for a tournament we may only play 6 or 8 games in all though long term this is important.

Long term we want to be back in champions league but short term ill suck up every little cup we can get and I'd say most players will too because if they don't have passion for winning a cup like the fa cup then they really are mercenaries.

raze_them_all_

jayo26 wrote: »

Rod we won the fa cup last year to me that counts as recent success and we are already in the final of the Micky mouse cup this year and we have a chance of another two?

I know it's not premier league or champions league lads but the idea of supporting a club is to win trophies and have passion of it. Success should not be measured on finishing runners up to qualify for a tournament we may only play 6 or 8 games in all though long term this is important.

Long term we want to be back in champions league but short term ill suck up every little cup we can get and I'd say most players will too because if they don't have passion for winning a cup like the fa cup then they really are mercenaries.

We need to be in champions league to attract top players, if we keep missing it sponsors pay less, we pay less we end up buying the like of andy carroll for 30 m

Liam McPoyle

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yup, that's what I meant by "a wage bigger than he'll get anywhere outside China"



I honestly just don't see any of those teams paying a world record fee for him.

Madrid have done it twice in recent memory.

City have a bottomless pit of money.

If Chelsea really wanted him and if that's what it took then it wouldn't surprise me though they are prolly least likely.

Liam McPoyle

jayo26 wrote: »

Rod we won the fa cup last year to me that counts as recent success and we are already in the final of the Micky mouse cup this year and we have a chance of another two?

I know it's not premier league or champions league lads but the idea of supporting a club is to win trophies and have passion of it. Success should not be measured on finishing runners up to qualify for a tournament we may only play 6 or 8 games in all though long term this is important.

Long term we want to be back in champions league but short term ill suck up every little cup we can get and I'd say most players will too because if they don't have passion for winning a cup like the fa cup then they really are mercenaries.

Ah I know, I was delighted to win the cup last year but I guess where I'm coming from is who remembers domestic cup winners when they are the only thing that's won?

Pompey and Wigan iirc won the fa cup in recent memory, its great for a short period of time, nice boost etc but ultimately for a club near the top of the food chain like United, its not good enough, especially considering the investment in the club.

Nalz

Fúcking home draw vs Hull.

Still not over it

bangkok

Nalz wrote: »

Fúcking home draw vs Hull.

Still not over it

a good performance and a win against Leicester it will be quickly forgotten about

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

a good performance and a win against Leicester it will be quickly forgotten about

I still remember the Stoke, Everton and Arsenal games :P

Hococop

Lord TSC wrote: »

I still remember the Stoke, Everton and Arsenal games :P

Don't forget Burnley

God still seething with that draw with hull

****ing Hull

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I still remember the Stoke, Everton and Arsenal games :P

how could you forget Burnley!!!

#neverforgetburnley

Anything to be said for gaining a point on Arsenal the other night?

bucketybuck

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

We need to be in champions league to attract top players,

And why do we need top players? To win trophies perhaps?

raze_them_all_

bucketybuck wrote: »

And why do we need top players? To win trophies perhaps?

do you think fa cup and no champions league will attract players to continue winning trophies?? Ask Portsmouth if winning smaller trophies is really that important

bucketybuck

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

do you think fa cup and no champions league will attract players to continue winning trophies?? Ask Portsmouth if winning smaller trophies is really that important

If the choice is between winning trophies or being in the champions league with fancy players then give me the trophies please, and I bet the likes of Portsmouth and Wigan wouldn't swap that small trophy for anything.

Nalz

Nalz wrote: »

Fúcking home draw vs Hull.

Still not over it

I hear you bro

Nalz

Nalz wrote: »

Fúcking home draw vs Hull.

Still not over it

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I hear you bro

Im not sure why but this one deffo feels like the worse one of the season. I think it was a combination of me thinking if we arent in top 4 over course of 5 games (last 2 and the next 3 we would really struggle we the tougher run in we have over most and starting to hope we would.Its the hope the kills you.

deaddonkey15

stankratz wrote: »

Anything to be said for gaining a point on Arsenal the other night?

We had lost 2 points on them by drawing with Stoke.

J. Marston

Lord TSC wrote: »

Schwiensteiger officially added to the Europa League squad.

Wouldn't mind seeing him start on Sunday. May as well try something different.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

a good performance and a win against Leicester it will be quickly forgotten about

You're right. A win this weekend and we're back in it, nothing is even nearly over yet in terms of Top 4 - on points and with games left to play.

However, going on what I've been watching from United the last few games, there's nothing giving me the hope that that win which will pull us back into it is going to happen.

I could be just overly pessimistic, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Leicester display their home form of last season for this game. Plus, Hull to show how easily they can be beaten in their match.

~Rebel~

Rod Munch wrote: »

Madrid have done it twice in recent memory.

City have a bottomless pit of money.

If Chelsea really wanted him and if that's what it took then it wouldn't surprise me though they are prolly least likely.

I know its physically possible for other teams to do it, I just don't see any of them actually doing it.

Madrid and Barca are already both under a bit of pressure to downsize one of their superstars as it is, pretty much ruling both out of a world record fee this summer.

And City need him less than any team around really, with Sane, Sterling, De Bruyne, Gabi Jesus, Iheanacho, Nolito, Navas and Aguero (even if he left), and have massive gaping holes in their squad elsewhere. It's their strongest area of the field, with midfield and defence needing complete overhauls, as well as a new keeper. Would be very silly and unnecessary of them to buy him.

Chelsea a vague possibility, but I really can't see it. They've only spent more than 40m pounds once in their history, and that was Torres. It's just not their kind of signing.

In Europe, ManU are the only game in town for a 100m+ Euro bid.

Nalz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Im not sure why but this one deffo feels like the worse one of the season. I think it was a combination of me thinking if we arent in top 4 over course of 5 games (last 2 and the next 3 we would really struggle we the tougher run in we have over most and starting to hope we would.Its the hope the kills you.

Yep.

Business end of the season and with Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs all dropping points we couldn't capitalise

GSPfan

Still too annoyed to contribute to a conversation. Nothing less than a few wins in a row would make me forget about it. Fookin Stoke and Fookin Hull.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/827803988502286336

Nalz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBCHtHXFFZg

Waffle or nails on heads?

jayo26

I'd disagree to be honest they are making it out to be the system but in my opinion it's down to the players not hitting the back of the net.
We are creating chances and taking shots on goal we have one of the highest number of chances created and shots taken in the league but we have the worst percentage of shots/goals ratio.

niallo27

Nalz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBCHtHXFFZg

Waffle or nails on heads?

I turned it off when Nicol mentioned a cumshot around 1:56. Who does these subtitles.

spiralism

It is accurate though. Our form is heavily reliant on Ibra's (and to a lesser extent since December, Mkhitaryan's).

We simply can't score enough goals. We seem to be improving from earlier in the season alright in that Mourinho seems to have settled on what his best team is more or less and the defence is more than carrying it's load. But we're not getting enough production out of our attacking players not named Zlatan, with the possible exception of Mata (who tbf is not someone we can or will play every week given the sort of player he is)

Simple fact is we've scored one more goal than Crystal Palace, they of the Pardew and Allardyce school of "whack it long to the big lad and hope for the best". Two more goals than the Tony Pulis show. One more goal than Bournemouth who are playing attractive football on a tiny budget.

Hard to really say where to go from this. Hope for the best that Ibra sorts his goalscoring form out soon? He certainly seems to blow a bit hot and cold form wise. On the other hand our other attacking players could start contributing or finishing their numerous chances. Mind you the extra competitions might be no harm in the coming weeks as it'll give the likes of Martial more of a platform to break into the team, since Mourinho is stubborn in that regard. More playing time for Rashford as the main striker (games against Blackburn and one leg vs St.Etienne coming up are ideal for this) would certainly be no harm as well.

Mourinho must be ripping his hair out with this ****e. All this talent and it seems that if our 35 year old frontman is off the boil, we can't score goals, regardless of whether or not we create chances.

We would want some attacking players to find some form and composure, and soon. As it is, it's now looking like it's getting worse with Miki threatining lately to go out of form

Lord TSC

jayo26 wrote: »

I'd disagree to be honest they are making it out to be the system but in my opinion it's down to the players not hitting the back of the net.
We are creating chances and taking shots on goal we have one of the highest number of chances created and shots taken in the league but we have the worst percentage of shots/goals ratio.

Yeah, its why I'd still be 100% behind Jose (and I say this as someone who'd well given up on Moyes at this stage, and had given up on LVG in his second season at this point in the season too). The system, to me, IS working by and large; we're creating so many chances, we're dominating 90% of teams and you can count on one hand how often we've been dominated.

The issue is we can't finish chances. Thats a player problem. Especially if you notice the player Jose brought in (Ibra) has been doing well, all things considered. I'd be fully confident in Jose knowing who to cycle in and who to cycle out this summer to fix the issues that exist (as opposed to Moyes and LVG who I don't think could figure out what the issues were, let alone fix them).

Convert even a fraction more of those missed chances and we'd be flying up the league.

spiralism

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah, its why I'd still be 100% behind Jose (and I say this as someone who'd well given up on Moyes at this stage, and had given up on LVG in his second season at this point in the season too). The system, to me, IS working by and large; we're creating so many chances, we're dominating 90% of teams and you can count on one hand how often we've been dominated.

The issue is we can't finish chances. Thats a player problem. Especially if you notice the player Jose brought in (Ibra) has been doing well, all things considered. I'd be fully confident in Jose knowing who to cycle in and who to cycle out this summer to fix the issues that exist (as opposed to Moyes and LVG who I don't think could figure out what the issues were, let alone fix them).

Convert even a fraction more of those missed chances and we'd be flying up the league.

To be fair, Martial and Rashford had no problem burying them last year. They need a confidence boost so this upcoming fixture pileup with some weak teams still to play is the ideal time. They're not going to find confidence in front of goal sitting on the bench or playing in a position they're not wholly familiar with.

Rashford's a natural poacher. We should be giving him more games in this vein. I get that Mourinho is trying to develop him into a more complete forward and the signs are showing, but we should be prioritising pragmatism here so we have other options. He's so young that this side of his game can keep developing, but he already has that eye for goal. He offers a completely different attacking threat to Ibra and if this style of play can adapt to him more in that position we'll become far more menacing.

Or, you know, we could just stick with what we're doing with Ibra playing 80% of games as the lone striker at 35, Rashford on the wings and Martial on the bench. Which wouldn't surprise me either tbh

jayo26

spiralism wrote: »

To be fair, Martial and Rashford had no problem burying them last year. They need a confidence boost so this upcoming fixture pileup with some weak teams still to play is the ideal time. They're not going to find confidence in front of goal sitting on the bench or playing in a position they're not wholly familiar with.

I've thought about this and I think I even said it on here but the difference last year was lvg wanted the team to only shoot when they were in a position to score and most of the time they even had to control the ball first they were no shots outside the box they were very few snap shots but even at that our major problem last year was sharing the goals around the team.

Now I could be wrong but in my head I have it that the football under lvg was so slow and laboured they had more time to shoot.

Cantona's Collars

Man Utd 1-1 Stoke
18 chances created, 9/24 shots on target + hit the bar

Liverpool 0-0 Man Utd
5 chances created, 1/7 shots on target

Man Utd 0-0 Burnley
29 chances created, 11/38 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Arsenal
9 chances created, 5/12 shots on target

Man Utd 1-1 West Ham
14 chances created, 8/17 shots on target

Everton 1-1 Man Utd
6 chances created, 2/10 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Liverpool
6 chances created, 3/9 shots on target + hit the post

Stoke 1-1 Man Utd
19 chances created, 8/25 shots on target + hit the bar

Man Utd 0-0 Hull
13 chances created, 6/15 shots on target

In total: 119 chances, 53/157 shots on target + hit the post/bar 5 times. All that and only 6 goals scored.

Not my work,borrowed it from a thread on Redcafe, http://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-9-draws-in-numbers.426130/#post-20418669

TitianGerm

zerks wrote: »

Man Utd 1-1 Stoke
18 chances created, 9/24 shots on target + hit the bar

Liverpool 0-0 Man Utd
5 chances created, 1/7 shots on target

Man Utd 0-0 Burnley
29 chances created, 11/38 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Arsenal
9 chances created, 5/12 shots on target

Man Utd 1-1 West Ham
14 chances created, 8/17 shots on target

Everton 1-1 Man Utd
6 chances created, 2/10 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Liverpool
6 chances created, 3/9 shots on target + hit the post

Stoke 1-1 Man Utd
19 chances created, 8/25 shots on target + hit the bar

Man Utd 0-0 Hull
13 chances created, 6/15 shots on target

In total: 119 chances, 53/157 shots on target + hit the post/bar 5 times. All that and only 6 goals scored.

Not my work,borrowed it from a thread on Redcafe, http://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-9-draws-in-numbers.426130/#post-20418669

Just on the chances created is there a breakdown of those for inside/outside the box?

Cantona's Collars

emmetkenny wrote: »

Just on the chances created is there a breakdown of those for inside/outside the box?

I think the way chances are defined is by seeing them as an occasion where a player is expected to score.Eg. a ball across the 6 yard box and a player miskicks.

S.M.B.

zerks wrote: »

I think the way chances are defined is by seeing them as an occasion where a player is expected to score.Eg. a ball across the 6 yard box and a player miskicks.

It can't be that clear cut. There's no way we missed 29 chances of that calibre where we were expected to score against Burnley.

Cantona's Collars

S.M.B. wrote: »

It can't be that clear cut. There's no way we missed 29 chances of that calibre where we were expected to score against Burnley.

There was a discussion earlier about "big chances" and our shocking wastefulness when it came to those chances.

jayo26

Chances created is an opinion from one person to the next I always assumed it was a chance to have a shot on goal then it's either a shot taken or a missed header or fluffed kick ect.

J. Marston

zerks wrote: »

Man Utd 1-1 Stoke
18 chances created, 9/24 shots on target + hit the bar

Liverpool 0-0 Man Utd
5 chances created, 1/7 shots on target

Man Utd 0-0 Burnley
29 chances created, 11/38 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Arsenal
9 chances created, 5/12 shots on target

Man Utd 1-1 West Ham
14 chances created, 8/17 shots on target

Everton 1-1 Man Utd
6 chances created, 2/10 shots on target + hit the post

Man Utd 1-1 Liverpool
6 chances created, 3/9 shots on target + hit the post

Stoke 1-1 Man Utd
19 chances created, 8/25 shots on target + hit the bar

Man Utd 0-0 Hull
13 chances created, 6/15 shots on target

In total: 119 chances, 53/157 shots on target + hit the post/bar 5 times. All that and only 6 goals scored.

Not my work,borrowed it from a thread on Redcafe, http://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-9-draws-in-numbers.426130/#post-20418669

Having one of those high chances games happens. Twice is unfortunate. Any more than that and players are to blame for being bottlers.

Liam McPoyle

J. Marston wrote: »

Having one of those high chances games happens. Twice is unfortunate. Any more than that and players are to blame for being bottlers.

Yep, the manager can only do so much tbh.

The team can be set up the right way, play the right way but ultimately its the impotence in front of goal that has cost us many points and could well cost us top 4.

Top of the hit woodwork table and bottom of the penos given table also isnt helping

Quandary

Kante really is an incredible player.

Cantona's Collars

Super goal by Hazard,worth a watch no matter who you support.Reminds me of a certain Ryan Giggs.

J. Marston

Amazing from Hazard. Started that run in his own half.

Cantona's Collars

Quandary wrote: »

Kante really is an incredible player.

Rumours are that when he lost his virginity he won it back.