Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/828957060784091138

St Etienne manager: "The 2 [EL] games against @ManUtd certainly are the least important [for us] in February". Double bluff? Don't think so.

Seems to be that he doesn't think they'll go all the way, so isnt that bothered, and would rather focus his attention on the league (they are one point off 4th apparently, which is the EL spot for the French League).

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/828957060784091138

St Etienne manager: "The 2 [EL] games against @ManUtd certainly are the least important [for us] in February". Double bluff? Don't think so.

Seems to be that he doesn't think they'll go all the way, so isnt that bothered, and would rather focus his attention on the league (they are one point off 4th apparently, which is the EL spot for the French League).

I'll never get the thinking. Throw the Europa league in the hopes of qualifying for the Europa League?

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll never get the thinking. Throw the Europa league in the hopes of qualifying for the Europa League?

Kloppology

yabadabado

Jayop wrote: »

Carrick replacement as top priority
Striker as second
RB as third.

Exactly that and I think a winger is also needed.A proper out and out winger would make a huge difference to the attack.

Probably need 2 cm's Carrick replacement and then a cm who will be Morgan and Basti replacements.
Neither of those have played many games so I think 1 squad type player would suffice there.

Trigger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll never get the thinking. Throw the Europa league in the hopes of qualifying for the Europa League?

I presume it would be that they would get the club more money by qualifying next season than getting another couple of million this season..

Jayop

yabadabado wrote: »

Exactly that and I think a winger is also needed.A proper out and out winger would make a huge difference to the attack.

Probably need 2 cm's Carrick replacement and then a cm who will be Morgan and Basti replacements.
Neither of those have played many games so I think 1 squad type player would suffice there.

I don't think we need two this year. I'd fully expect Carrick to be here next season so it'll be someone to compete with him.

Shane St.

God I just hope we can finish in the top 4. Going to be a very exciting summer!

yabadabado

Jayop wrote: »

I don't think we need two this year. I'd fully expect Carrick to be here next season so it'll be someone to compete with him.

I'm more thinking along the lines that Morgan is gone and Basti will go in the summer.
Buy a player to compete/rotate with Carrick and then still think another cm is needed,to give options .2 cms and in and 2 out(MS/BS) ,maybe Jose sees TFM as an option there?

Jayop

yabadabado wrote: »

I'm more thinking along the lines that Morgan is gone and Basti will go in the summer.
Buy a player to compete/rotate with Carrick and then still think another cm is needed,to give options .2 cms and in and 2 out(MS/BS) ,maybe Jose sees TFM as an option there?

I guess you're not wrong.

As it stands we seem to play 3 in the middle most games and it's working well so I presume we're going to continue with that next season.

First choice 3 now sees Carrick sitting with Pogba and Herrera ahead of them.

Should we buy someone who can compete with Carrick or even displace him then you'd have...

---New Player
Herrera -- Pogba

With back up options of Carrick/Fellaini/TFM/Blind (I know Jose doesn't seem to see him there) for the CDM spot.

For the two infront we are a little lighter imo.

Mata/Mkhitaryan/Fellaini are the only real options.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

I presume it would be that they would get the club more money by qualifying next season than getting another couple of million this season..

Is it worth that much in comparitive terms, Ive no idea how much you get for Europa or the finances of the French teams tbf

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it worth that much in comparitive terms, Ive no idea how much you get for Europa or the finances of the French teams tbf

Base fee for group stage: €2,600,000
Group match victory: €360,000
Group match draw: €120,000
Group winners: €600,000
Group runners-up: €300,000
Round of 32: €500,000
Round of 16: €750,000
Quarter-finals: €1,000,000
Semi-finals: €1,600,000
Losing finalist: €3,500,000
Winners: €6,500,000

bmcc10

Would anyone take Nzonzi as Carricks replacement?

jayo26

bmcc10 wrote: »

Would anyone take Nzonzi as Carricks replacement?

Having a good season what age is he now? I think carvalho is the closest we get to Carrick.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Base fee for group stage: €2,600,000
Group match victory: €360,000
Group match draw: €120,000
Group winners: €600,000
Group runners-up: €300,000
Round of 32: €500,000
Round of 16: €750,000
Quarter-finals: €1,000,000
Semi-finals: €1,600,000
Losing finalist: €3,500,000
Winners: €6,500,000

Base fee for the group stage is a fee each team is paid just for getting into the Europa then? I'm trying to see what it's worth to United so far...

Base fee: 2,600,000
Group Match Win x 4: 1,440,000
Group Finish 2nd: 300,000

Total so far: €4,340,000

So, not even Ashley Young's salary.

If we go on to win it, add in another whopping €13,850,000 from the remaining rounds.

€18,190,000 appears to be the total prize money available to United if they go on to win the competition this season. It would be around €19m if United had have won their other 2 group games, and went on to win the group.

That's great money for many of the teams in the competition, look at the €€€s Dundalk scooped up with their run for example. However, it's pocket change to United unfortunately and we really need to be in the Champions League regularly.

Jayop

I think there's a further bonus from being one of the main televised games in the early stages although I could be wrong about that.

Edit: And you can add about €5m per match from matchday income too if I remember the approx figures.

bangkok

Why is everyone so keen to buy a new right back and who would they suggest we sign that is better than Valencia while we also have darmian who can play there and Fosu mensah who looks like he will be class as well?

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

Why is everyone so keen to buy a new right back and who would they suggest we sign that is better than Valencia while we also have darmian who can play there and Fosu mensah who looks like he will be class as well?

TFM isn't a right back and Darmian is ****e.

Basically if Valencia gets injured/banned/loses form we're screwed.

bangkok

Jayop wrote: »

TFM isn't a right back and Darmian is ****e.

Basically if Valencia gets injured/banned/loses form we're screwed.

Fosu mensah is 18, has played most of his games with first team in that position and proved he has the class to play there.

Sand

bangkok wrote: »

Fosu mensah is 18, has played most of his games with first team in that position and proved he has the class to play there.

Didn't this come up just last month?

SteM

Groundhog day.

Ted111

Valencia has lots of strenghts.
But he just doesn't strike the ball well.
Even back in the Ferguson era, opposition were wise to him, the full back would drop off him - give space out wide, would know he wouldn't put a cross, certainly not a good cross in.

Even if he was the best player in the world, he will turn 32 at the beginning of next season and should want to get a world class player in their prime for that position. Valencia will be a great back up player back up on the right.

duffman13

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Still need a replacement for Carrick

Agreed, I was responding to Nalz who was talking about signings up top. Needs a long term replacement for him and someone at Rb to push Valencia on or out

adox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

:pac:

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

Fosu mensah is 18, has played most of his games with first team in that position and proved he has the class to play there.

He did, as do most central YTS defenders who come into the first team.

Jones and Smalling played games there, they're not RB's either. If you think we should be relying on a terrible italian RB and an 18 year old central player as our only cover for a vital position then you and me have very different opinions.

Liam O

When did Darmian become terrible? I think he is quite good, hasn't really gotten a chance in his preferred position but seems to have taken over from Rojo as the derided scapegoat in defense.

bangkok

Ted111 wrote: »

Valencia has lots of strenghts.
But he just doesn't strike the ball well.
Even back in the Ferguson era, opposition were wise to him, the full back would drop off him - give space out wide, would know he wouldn't put a cross, certainly not a good cross in.

Even if he was the best player in the world, he will turn 32 at the beginning of next season and should want to get a world class player in their prime for that position. Valencia will be a great back up player back up on the right.

What world class rb do you think we should sign?

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

When did Darmian become terrible? I think he is quite good, hasn't really gotten a chance in his preferred position but seems to have taken over from Rojo as the derided scapegoat in defense.

Don't know, according to jayop he is terrible.

Jayop

Liam O wrote: »

When did Darmian become terrible? I think he is quite good, hasn't really gotten a chance in his preferred position but seems to have taken over from Rojo as the derided scapegoat in defense.

Any time I've seen him lately he's been brutal. Beaten easily in defense and gives it away going forward. Nowhere near the standard.

In my opinion of course.

Liam O

Jayop wrote: »

Any time I've seen him lately he's been brutal. Beaten easily in defense and gives it away going forward. Nowhere near the standard.

In my opinion of course.

When has he played RB though? He's miles better at crossing than Valencia imo. I'm unsure why more people don't see Valencia crippling the team going forward tbh. Obviously one player isn't to blame but the sheer amount of attacks wasted but Valencia has been particularly hopeless for ages. 7 or 8 crosses a game to absolutely nobody is a lot of attacks to be wasting.

Jayop

Liam O wrote: »

When has he played RB though? He's miles better at crossing than Valencia imo. I'm unsure why more people don't see Valencia crippling the team going forward tbh. Obviously one player isn't to blame but the sheer amount of attacks wasted but Valencia has been particularly hopeless for ages. 7 or 8 crosses a game to absolutely nobody is a lot of attacks to be wasting.

Because Valencia doing his thing is basically doing the roles of two players allowing us more options elsewhere. At least we're creating crossing chances from our RB, when was the last time a LB got into a crossing position?

Ted111

bangkok wrote: »

What world class rb do you think we should sign?

Well I think Jose has his eye on nelson semedo, who is both gettable and also a top class player in the right age profile. I'd be happy with something like that.

J. Marston

Darmian is fine in defence but I can't remember a worse attacking right back in all my time watching United.

Robson99

Jayop wrote: »

I guess you're not wrong.

As it stands we seem to play 3 in the middle most games and it's working well so I presume we're going to continue with that next season.

First choice 3 now sees Carrick sitting with Pogba and Herrera ahead of them.

Should we buy someone who can compete with Carrick or even displace him then you'd have...

---New Player
Herrera -- Pogba

With back up options of Carrick/Fellaini/TFM/Blind (I know Jose doesn't seem to see him there) for the CDM spot.

For the two infront we are a little lighter imo.

Mata/Mkhitaryan/Fellaini are the only real options.

At the moment I think our 3 best middle of the park players are Herrera holding with Pogba and Mikateryan ahead of him.
Mikateryans best performances gave come from playing deep and breaking forward similar to De Bruyne or Silva at city

Jayop

Robson99 wrote: »

At the moment I think our 3 best middle of the park players are Herrera holding with Pogba and Mikateryan ahead of him.
Mikateryans best performances gave come from playing deep and breaking forward similar to De Bruyne or Silva at city

We can be a bit more open like that but the attacking would be so much sweeter.

bangkok

Ted111 wrote: »

Well I think Jose has his eye on nelson semedo, who is both gettable and also a top class player in the right age profile. I'd be happy with something like that.

Think it's just the Portuguese link, also is he better than Valencia currently is, not a hope but might be in a few years

Lithium93_

The obsession with Valencia, the Simpsons gif posted above quiet perfectly sums this thread up at times.

Liam McPoyle

Lithium93_ wrote: »

The obsession with Valenica, the Simpsons gif posted above quiet perfectly sums this thread up at times.

Used to be Fellaini.

I for one am happy with Bangkok's new obsession tbh.

Valencia is not good enough for a starting place in a title challenging team.



Aaaaaaannnnd





Go!

Lithium93_

Rod Munch wrote: »

Used to be Fellaini.

I for one am happy with Bangkok's new obsession tbh.

Valencia is not good enough for a starting place in a title challenging team.



Aaaaaaannnnd





Go!

How long before Fellaini becomes the object of obsession again?



Don't get me wrong, both are good players/handy options to have, but better can be done.. Much better.

Ted111

Valencia's fine at the moment, but he's at the closing stages of his career.
A new full back will be needed. Jose clearly doesn't fancy TFM at this stage - and to be fair he's still a teenager. Darmian's a lemon. So you're looking at a new player coming to the club. Sure otherwise why don't we throw Bryan Robson and Denis Law on next weekend.

bangkok

Rod Munch wrote: »

Used to be Fellaini.

I for one am happy with Bangkok's new obsession tbh.

Valencia is not good enough for a starting place in a title challenging team.



Aaaaaaannnnd





Go!

My obsession? I'm asking why people want to see him replaced when he is having a fantastic season.

What about the constant talk of Rooney on this thread, or the talk of shaw the last Few months, or talking about greizemann, that's what a discussion forum is, you talk about things Utd related, which Valencia is and all of the above are to.

StringerBell

Fantastic is over egging his season, he can be improved upon so why not? He is 31 is he? Hardly a long term player so discussing his replacement will happen.

Dwarf.Shortage

I for one am glad the Rooney debates are over anyway, the thread was flogging a dead donkey for weeks on that one.

Donnielighto

Valencia is having a good season but people were identifying areas in need of attention. Taking into account the quality of cover and the first choice's age then having RB as third priorty is fine.

v3ttel

Jayop wrote: »

Carrick replacement as top priority
Striker as second
RB as third.

Complete agree with what you've written, but I still think we need a RW (who is also capable on the LW) as fourth priority.

Mkhitaryan is excellent but his best position is #10 IMHO. Mata is reasonable at RW considering his lack of pace, but his best position is #10. Lingard is a good backup option. We don't get the best out of Rashford at LW.

RW:
1. New Winger
2. Mkhitaryan
3. Lingard

#10
1. Mkhitaryan
2. Mata
3. Rooney

LW:
1. Martial
2. New Winger (same player as #1 RW)
3. Rashford
4. Lingard

ST:
1. Zlatan
2. Rashford
3. Martial
4. Rooney

That would be an incredibly flexible array of attacking options and would be a lot more balanced. We'd see a lot more square pegs in square holes more often.

I would guess that Young will leave in the Summer. I would also think that Rooney will likely leave and be replaced by a new ST which would make things look even better (as per priority #2 above).

Tbh, as long as the club back Mourinho in the Summer, I trust that he will identify exactly what we need (and get it).

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

When has he played RB though? He's miles better at crossing than Valencia imo. I'm unsure why more people don't see Valencia crippling the team going forward tbh. Obviously one player isn't to blame but the sheer amount of attacks wasted but Valencia has been particularly hopeless for ages. 7 or 8 crosses a game to absolutely nobody is a lot of attacks to be wasting.

Darmian is better crosser of the ball than Valencia? That's madness. Darmian is weak defensively and pis poor at attacking, Valencia is few levels above him. I wouldn't trade him for any right back in the league.

Re crossing, you would hardly find any right back who will cross or attack better than Valencia in the league (people just ignore when the likes of Bellerin, Walker ****s up the attack). Valencia's contribution is immense and probably in the top 3 outfield player for us this season.

Minderbinder

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Liam O wrote: »

When has he played RB though? He's miles better at crossing than Valencia imo. I'm unsure why more people don't see Valencia crippling the team going forward tbh. Obviously one player isn't to blame but the sheer amount of attacks wasted but Valencia has been particularly hopeless for ages. 7 or 8 crosses a game to absolutely nobody is a lot of attacks to be wasting.

Darmian is better crosser of the ball than Valencia? That's madness. Darmian is weak defensively and pis poor at attacking, Valencia is few levels above him. I wouldn't trade him for any right back in the league.

Re crossing, you would hardly find any right back who will cross or attack better than Valencia in the league (people just ignore when the likes of Bellerin, Walker ****s up the attack). Valencia's contribution is immense and probably in the top 3 outfield player for us this season.

I think you are mostly right to be fair. People like to criticize full backs for their creative ineptitude and they usually do that based on stats. They will argue that because Valencia has two assists in the league this season, it means his contribution is terrible. Then you have people saying Rooney is rubbish even though he is our leading creator of goals (but that's another argument) 
It is not an easy job being one of these marauding full backs. You'd have to say that apart from Kyle Walker none of them are regularly providing the last pass for a goal. 
Walker has five assists in the league which is great. Milner has three for Liverpool. Alonso has two for Chelsea and the rest have one or two or none. Mkhitaryan and Rashford combined have the same amount of assists as Valencia.
So the argument is that Valencia, Bellerin, Alonso, Rose, Baines, Coleman etc are all terrible crossers of the ball or there is some other reason in terms of style of play that is inhibiting the modern full back from finding the striker in the box. Maybe it's because the striker isn't in the box. Maybe there aren't as many good headerers of a ball or even lads who want to compete for it. Maybe it's because crosses are coming in later and from the byline rather than earlier and from deeper positions. Most crosses I see now, especially from United is when the box is already crowded and it's almost impossible to get a free header.
 Most of the top teams don't want to play that kind of football where crossing is a main part of the attack. It is a last resort when all these clever number 10's and inside forwards run out of ideas. Look at what has happened with Liverpool. They are clueless in the last few games and suddenly all they're doing is crossing the ball, but they don't know how to be effective with that because they don't have the men in the box who thrive on crosses. United don't have that either.

beno619

J. Marston wrote: »

Darmian is fine in defence but I can't remember a worse attacking right back in all my time watching United.

Tbf his attacking didn't look particularly strong at RB so putting him on the opposite wing on is weaker foot doesn't help.

I think he's done will this season, would like to see him have a proper run at RB though.

beno619

Rod Munch wrote: »

Used to be Fellaini.

I for one am happy with Bangkok's new obsession tbh.

Valencia is not good enough for a starting place in a title challenging team.



Aaaaaaannnnd





Go!

And Vic Moses & Marco Alonso are ?

It's a ridiculous statement considering he has started for a title winning side.

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

And Vic Moses & Marco Alonso are ?

It's a ridiculous statement considering he has started for a title winning side.

I think Marco alonso is a fantastic player anytime I watched Chelsea play this year he has been one of best players he has to be the most improved player this season.